Extremely Low Midyear Mayhem Turnout, Why?

AzuraFan · July 27

loosej wrote: »

You used to be able to gain AP at a much faster rate when population & capacity were a lot higher than today, and as a result 30 minutes of gameplay were enough to get a huge amount of Rewards for the Worthy in the mail, so much that you were almost guaranteed to get a style page every day.

But they don't drop from Rewards of the Worthy. They drop from the gold event boxes. And in every other event, I believe there's been one guaranteed style page drop a day.

Anyway, as I mentioned, I'm fine with missing out on them, but disappointed that they're making rewards even more difficult to get. They should be moving in the opposite direction by making event participation more rewarding.

Four_Fingers · July 27

Because each campaign map held by is one alliance with very little PvP going on, just people getting tickets.
All same color maps makes me log off.

ArzyeL · July 27

I think the second Mayhem every year always had less ppl around? Also many casual pvpers would prefer another vengeance test run.

MorallyBipolar · July 27

Stamicka wrote: »

I'm curious to hear why so many players avoided this most recent Midyear Mayhem event. Each event the turnout gets lower, but this time it's shockingly low. The added campaigns were not needed at all. Personally speaking, I only played a little for the first 2 days and lost interest after that. I have a long list of reasons, but it would probably be useful for ZOS to see other perspectives.

Feel free to share your reasons.

There hasn't been a low turnout for this years MYM event. Every faction has been pop locked since the event began except for a few hours when most using NA server are in bed.

Why are you trying to claim there has been such low turnout this event when there hasn't been is the question.

Coo_PnT · July 27

I'm simply bored and it's not interesting. Is there anything else?

MorallyBipolar · July 27

Stamicka wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Because I can't be tasked to do activities I don't enjoy just for some item in a video game, and I would guess many people feel the same way about PvP.

I understand. There’s a significant amount of players who participated in Midyear Mayhem in the past, but didn’t participate this time though.

I’m not sure if they quit or what, but it’s a very noticeable drop off. It’s pretty interesting to see from a game design perspective. I’m wondering what’s led to such a dramatic change this time.

Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.

Thank you.

MorallyBipolar · July 27

Could it be that, to someone who hasn't been PvP'ing for a couple years or more just hasn't realized that the pop caps have been slashed to 60-75 players/faction?

Stridig · July 27

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Because I can't be tasked to do activities I don't enjoy just for some item in a video game, and I would guess many people feel the same way about PvP.

I understand. There’s a significant amount of players who participated in Midyear Mayhem in the past, but didn’t participate this time though.

I’m not sure if they quit or what, but it’s a very noticeable drop off. It’s pretty interesting to see from a game design perspective. I’m wondering what’s led to such a dramatic change this time.

Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.

Thank you.

This isn't the mic drop you hope it is. Anybody who PvPs on a regular basis knows the population is next to nothing compared to past MYM events. There was a time when U50 was pop locked during this event. Blackwater Blade days. When you don't need to queue into an alternate campaign while waiting to get into GH, there is no need to present data. It's crystal clear.

Coo_PnT · July 27

What exactly are you looking for? I enjoy creating Pug groups about twice a week on PC/NA, but what are you looking for?

SilverBride · July 27

I've only participated in one Mayhem event and I did enjoy it. I may have participated in this one but am burned out from the PvP Golden Pursuit earlier this year.

MorallyBipolar · July 27

Stridig wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Because I can't be tasked to do activities I don't enjoy just for some item in a video game, and I would guess many people feel the same way about PvP.

I understand. There’s a significant amount of players who participated in Midyear Mayhem in the past, but didn’t participate this time though.

I’m not sure if they quit or what, but it’s a very noticeable drop off. It’s pretty interesting to see from a game design perspective. I’m wondering what’s led to such a dramatic change this time.

Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.

Thank you.

This isn't the mic drop you hope it is. Anybody who PvPs on a regular basis knows the population is next to nothing compared to past MYM events. There was a time when U50 was pop locked during this event. Blackwater Blade days. When you don't need to queue into an alternate campaign while waiting to get into GH, there is no need to present data. It's crystal clear.

How do you explain that all three factions have been pop locked more than 20 hours/day since the event began? (PC NA Greyhost)

Coo_PnT · July 27

I guess there aren't many people who like PvP. After all, no one likes getting beaten up by other people.

loosej · July 27

AzuraFan wrote: »

loosej wrote: »

You used to be able to gain AP at a much faster rate when population & capacity were a lot higher than today, and as a result 30 minutes of gameplay were enough to get a huge amount of Rewards for the Worthy in the mail, so much that you were almost guaranteed to get a style page every day.

But they don't drop from Rewards of the Worthy. They drop from the gold event boxes. And in every other event, I believe there's been one guaranteed style page drop a day.

Anyway, as I mentioned, I'm fine with missing out on them, but disappointed that they're making rewards even more difficult to get. They should be moving in the opposite direction by making event participation more rewarding.

They drop from event boxes, not restricted to the golden ones. You're also guaranteed to get one, and exactly one, every day if you open enough of them (rng). You get event boxes added to your rewards for the worthy (or you used to at least, I expect that's still the case).

tomofhyrule · July 27

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Because I can't be tasked to do activities I don't enjoy just for some item in a video game, and I would guess many people feel the same way about PvP.

I understand. There’s a significant amount of players who participated in Midyear Mayhem in the past, but didn’t participate this time though.

I’m not sure if they quit or what, but it’s a very noticeable drop off. It’s pretty interesting to see from a game design perspective. I’m wondering what’s led to such a dramatic change this time.

Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.

Thank you.

This isn't the mic drop you hope it is. Anybody who PvPs on a regular basis knows the population is next to nothing compared to past MYM events. There was a time when U50 was pop locked during this event. Blackwater Blade days. When you don't need to queue into an alternate campaign while waiting to get into GH, there is no need to present data. It's crystal clear.

How do you explain that all three factions have been pop locked more than 20 hours/day since the event began? (PC NA Greyhost)

Devil's Advocate, but that's the standard population.

Usually during MYM, you also see Blackreach and Ravenwatch at capacity for most of the day, and only the 7-day campaigns are only on one or two bars.

If people at primetime can get into Blackreach without a queue, that's a sure sign that there are way fewer people than normal.

---

On topic: I think it's two things - 1) We just had the Vengeance test and a Golden Pursuit around that, so your standard "I-only-PvP-when-there's-an-event-encouraging-me-to-do-so" crowd is already burnt out. 2) Subclassing is making is so your non-pro PvPers are getting deleted even faster than normal, and they don't tend to care enough to come back and try with a better build when they could just leave and not bother with a mode they don't like.

Stamicka · July 27

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

There hasn't been a low turnout for this years MYM event. Every faction has been pop locked since the event began except for a few hours when most using NA server are in bed.

Why are you trying to claim there has been such low turnout this event when there hasn't been is the question.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.

Thank you.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Could it be that, to someone who hasn't been PvP'ing for a couple years or more just hasn't realized that the pop caps have been slashed to 60-75 players/faction?

[snip]

A pop locked Grey Host is normal. The fact that PvP populations have been slashed is just further evidence of decline, because even with slashed populations, Blackreach wasn't close to being full for most of the day. Imperial City used to fill up during these events, and you could find pretty large groups in the added IC campaigns. This year even the main IC is getting like 1 bar per faction... that's a massive difference.

Also this isn't unique to PC NA, I was curious and checked the Xbox NA population bars at various points in the day and it was the same story.

[edited for baiting]

Evil_Rurouni · July 27

Stridig wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Because I can't be tasked to do activities I don't enjoy just for some item in a video game, and I would guess many people feel the same way about PvP.

I understand. There’s a significant amount of players who participated in Midyear Mayhem in the past, but didn’t participate this time though.

I’m not sure if they quit or what, but it’s a very noticeable drop off. It’s pretty interesting to see from a game design perspective. I’m wondering what’s led to such a dramatic change this time.

Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.

Thank you.

This isn't the mic drop you hope it is. Anybody who PvPs on a regular basis knows the population is next to nothing compared to past MYM events. There was a time when U50 was pop locked during this event. Blackwater Blade days. When you don't need to queue into an alternate campaign while waiting to get into GH, there is no need to present data. It's crystal clear.

This.

Just logged into ESO to run my crafting dailies and hand in pre-completed PvP quests for tickets.
Checked my "star made kight" achievement collection date while I'm on the game and this forum:
07/27/17.
Thats, what? 14 events I took part in before skipping this one?
There or thereabouts.
None of them looked like what the campaign tab does right now.

Here on PS4NA the Gray host Q is a mere 25 minutes on a weekend.
Previous years you'd be measuring the Q in HOURS, and the other CP enabled campaigns would all be at least 1 bar apiece even off peak, with Q sometimes being needed for even them.
Evergloam is zero bars on all 3 factions and Blackreach is 3 red, 1 yellow, 0 blue.

Stamicka · July 27

Coo_PnT wrote: »

What exactly are you looking for? I enjoy creating Pug groups about twice a week on PC/NA, but what are you looking for?

I don't know that I'm looking for any specific answers, although I'm not surprised by what the most common answer is. I've been pretty vocal lately about how subclassing was horrible for ESO PvP:

Stamicka wrote: »

Yea almost no one PvPs at this point. On top of that, many of the people in Cyrodiil aren't even interested in PvP. A lot of them just want transmute crystals or they're more interested in siege than they are fighting other players. The number of people across all servers who still sweat PvP regularly is probably a low 2 digit number.

Subclassing will likely only worsen things in the future. The only somewhat positive thing I've seen about subclassing in PvP is that damage is higher this patch. I think what's really going on is that people with optimized subclass combinations are going against more casual players with weak subclass combinations. As a result, the difference in power between them is extreme because it's such an unbalanced system. So the newer or more casual players are dying more easily than ever due to the power gap. It might be fun for the more experienced players, but it's just going to lead to horrible entry rates and retention for everyone else.

Stamicka wrote: »

Subclassing as a whole is really bad for casual players or new players looking to get into PvP or endgame PvE.

It adds another layer of complexity when it comes to making a build, which is already way more complex than it once was.

The power gap and the knowledge gap keeps growing as more build customization is allowed. I genuinely don’t know how a new player would make sense of the 100s of sets in the game, skill line combinations, scribing, traits, CP, and many other build elements and interactions without watching YouTube.

It’s an accessibility issue and it keeps PvP and endgame PvE communities small with low entry rates and poor retention. A properly specced player is literally like an emperor compared to a max leveled newer player doing their own thing.

ZOS is approaching accessibility the complete wrong way and they just don’t get it.

You can find many other comments I've left like that across different posts. A lot of people here just seem overwhelmed with making a PvP build, or they're noticing the insane power gap in the game right now. Like I said, it's an accessibility issue and it's not healthy for PvP, I want ZOS to understand that.

What I think ZOS should take away from Vengeance is that people will be more likely to participate when there isn't a massive power gap and when there's very low barriers to entry. People will tolerate a skill gap, but a power gap is just a sign of a broken game.

valenwood_vegan · July 27

Evil_Rurouni wrote: »

Just logged into ESO to run my crafting dailies and hand in pre-completed PvP quests for tickets.
Checked my "star made kight" achievement collection date while I'm on the game and this forum:
07/27/17.
Thats, what? 14 events I took part in before skipping this one?
There or thereabouts.
None of them looked like what the campaign tab does right now.

Here on PS4NA the Gray host Q is a mere 25 minutes on a weekend.
Previous years you'd be measuring the Q in HOURS, and the other CP enabled campaigns would all be at least 1 bar apiece even off peak, with Q sometimes being needed for even them.
Evergloam is zero bars on all 3 factions and Blackreach is 3 red, 1 yellow, 0 blue.

Yeah, I mean just a year or two ago the additional mayhem servers were actually necessary at peak times - sometimes they'd even pop-lock with a short queue. Especially on the first weekend. This time around it looks like additional servers aren't actually needed at all.

DJfriede · July 27

I like to run IC in off-hours, do a mix of PVE and PVP, collect double Tel Var and the quests. In Cyro I only do the daily.

Overall I am not interested in the event or PVP in general anymore. And I started out as a PVPer.

Sub-classing is my major turnoff. Remember when you hated fighting against one particular skill of one particular class? Guess what, now you get the most annoying and overpowered skills of even more classes -- in just one build. Isn't that fun?

(No, it is not.)

Stridig · July 27

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Stridig wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Because I can't be tasked to do activities I don't enjoy just for some item in a video game, and I would guess many people feel the same way about PvP.

I understand. There’s a significant amount of players who participated in Midyear Mayhem in the past, but didn’t participate this time though.

I’m not sure if they quit or what, but it’s a very noticeable drop off. It’s pretty interesting to see from a game design perspective. I’m wondering what’s led to such a dramatic change this time.

Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.

Thank you.

This isn't the mic drop you hope it is. Anybody who PvPs on a regular basis knows the population is next to nothing compared to past MYM events. There was a time when U50 was pop locked during this event. Blackwater Blade days. When you don't need to queue into an alternate campaign while waiting to get into GH, there is no need to present data. It's crystal clear.

How do you explain that all three factions have been pop locked more than 20 hours/day since the event began? (PC NA Greyhost)

How do you explain ONLY GH being poplocked for 20 hours a day? There's your data.

Dubhliam · July 27

Subclassing makes people's head spin from all the different options.

So any player that hasn't already tested and perfected a build feels overwhelmed and expects to get their ass handed to them (most likely true).

AzuraFan · July 27

loosej wrote: »

They drop from event boxes, not restricted to the golden ones. You're also guaranteed to get one, and exactly one, every day if you open enough of them (rng). You get event boxes added to your rewards for the worthy (or you used to at least, I expect that's still the case).

You're not guaranteed to get one every day if you have to open X boxes to get it, and X could be anything from 1 to hundreds. In previous events, you always got a style page from the first golden box you opened. That's guaranteed.

IOW, by definition, something isn't guaranteed when RNG is involved, which it is in this case.

MorallyBipolar · July 27

Stamicka wrote: »

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

There hasn't been a low turnout for this years MYM event. Every faction has been pop locked since the event began except for a few hours when most using NA server are in bed.

Why are you trying to claim there has been such low turnout this event when there hasn't been is the question.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Can you please post your data showing that this years MYM event is experiencing a reduced turn out.

Thank you.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

Could it be that, to someone who hasn't been PvP'ing for a couple years or more just hasn't realized that the pop caps have been slashed to 60-75 players/faction?

[snip]

A pop locked Grey Host is normal. The fact that PvP populations have been slashed is just further evidence of decline, because even with slashed populations, Blackreach wasn't close to being full for most of the day. Imperial City used to fill up during these events, and you could find pretty large groups in the added IC campaigns. This year even the main IC is getting like 1 bar per faction... that's a massive difference.

Also this isn't unique to PC NA, I was curious and checked the Xbox NA population bars at various points in the day and it was the same story.

I'm not trolling. It's a fact tha Grey Host has been pop locked all but a few hours per day since the event began and I play in Greyhost. However, since posting above, I checked out the other campaign options and see that those do seem to be maintaining lower populations than in past events.

Still, nobody has produced anything other than anecdotal information to show that there are actually lower populations this event. After looking at the added camps this time around I'm inclined to agree that populations are lower on those camps, but not in Greyhost. So, do you have any actual data to support your belief?

Also, I'd submit that the #1 reason fewer people are PvP'ing now days is atrocious performance. I mean absolutely, inexcusably atrocious performance. Even FPS is being determined server side now it seems. So now we have the massive lag as before, but also super low FPS to deal with since June 25th. I even benchmarked my GPU earlier today to see if I was having an issue. If I'd submitted my test results they would have been between 100 to 105th highest ever reported, so I know for certain I am not having an issue with my hardware. It's the servers.

An in addition to that I'm seeing people leaving the game because they just don't see any point in investing in ESO anymore given current events. Many think ESO won't be around much longer based on current events.

[edited to remove quote]

silky_soft · July 27

Using season pass terminology turned heaps of people off. Lack of content turned people off.

Subclassing is an absolute flop. It's driven many away from the game entirely. It's also just more grinding.

They didn't even use mythic in it or weave it into scribing so you don't have full skill line dumps. Just some lazy implementation.

Then we have massive success of vengeance pre and post subclassing. Why would you go back to immortal ball groups.

Will have to see what direction the new boss will take it.

MasterSpatula · July 27

For me, it's simple.

1. Balance. The same reason I barely ever PVP anymore, the single thing they have an absolutely inviolate obligation to be fixing, just keeps getting worse. Subclassing is a blatant doubling-down on the idea that ZOS doesn't think balancing is a problem, when balancing is, in fact, a massive, obvious, glaringly fatal problem. I really don't want much of anything to do with PVP as unbalanced as pre-Subclassing. I'm outright horrified by the idea of PVPing in a subclassing environment. Added to all that, Vengeance reminded me of what PVP can be. Vengeance was fun, and it made the current state of things that much more distasteful.

2. That said, I probably would be going in for more than just town and scouting quests a if my character weren't currently gimped by leveling subclass skill lines. I'm trying to get all the skill lines leveled up, and I'm mostly using my main for this. Mayhem, coming so soon after the release of subclassing, is just incredibly poorly timed for me.

3. On top of all that, I'm in Pacific Time, and I play pretty late on PCNA. My faction, DC, has no presence on any of the campaigns but GH whenever I log on, and GH is frequently pop locked. Maybe if DC would branch out a little on PCNA, I might tag along (on my severely hobbled character) to actually take/defend some stuff. But it's just pointless when you're gated on every campaign except the one thats pop locked.

Ratzkifal · July 27

PvPer here. Two reasons:

Subclassing Multiclassing broke balance in quite a bit, especially in tandem with the Monomyth mythic which is very abusable. The freedom of over 3000 skill combinations is worthless if 99% of those combinations cannot compete because of a lack of balancing, and the 1% that remains is the same few skill lines every time. It has also made PvP fights very unpredictable in a bad way, because before subclassing multiclassing, you knew what build you were fighting. You saw a DK, you knew what to look out for and how to play against it. Now every fight is that Moonknight meme "random BS go!" Although personally, I haven't actually noticed too much of a lack there, but if that's actually the case, that'd be why fewer of the hardcore PvP playerbase are showing up.
Vengeance being preferable to nonPvPers. Vengeance is extremely boring to me and many others, but people who don't PvP a lot like it because it gives them moments of success while regular PvP has a steep learning curve that involves dying a lot, which is probably not fun to a majority of PvErs who dip their toes into Cyrodiil. I can see how that would be preferable to a lot of players, even though I am of the firm belief that long term Vengeance cannot sustain a healthy population and the novelty will wear off quickly should it ever become a permanent addition, especially with its intended audience - PvPers.

tincanman · July 28

No time for casual players with limited play time.

Currently there's a golden pursuit(no thanks) for some shiny furniture item with interminably long associated scribing unlock quests that seems timed to end alongside the end of the mayhem event. Then there's subclassing and another interminably long grind to level skill lines done many times before already and, maybe, running around to get extra skill points on multiple characters.

So, currently, event participation, if it's happening at all, is reduced to porting to a cyro campaign dominated by another faction, grabbing a scout mission, back out then in again to a campaign where your faction dominates the map, complete mission and turn it in for tickets. And maybe loot the little bag beside the scout mission post for some water, a cheap traitstone or a green plan. Oddly, the mystery of this latter action is actually more interesting and enjoyable than the former - what will the bag-o'-mysterious-trash have for me today? Don't even need to put gear on for any of this - at all.

With a little more time available for 'play', head to imperial city ... and get bored quickly and leave. Maybe tell yourself that you should really try to get a couple of the quests done to hand in over subsequent days for that whole 1-ticket extra but ... meh.

/logout

cheshirecatqee · July 28

It’s quiet because only pvp players like it. There’s a lot of non PvP content but it’s difficult to do when you spend most of your time trying to escape a PvP player.

Melivar · July 28

It's a rough time of the year with weddings, vacations and other summer obligations particularly on the weekends.

While I have participated in the bare minimum for tickets so far I will be far more active during the week starting tomorrow and trailing off again for the weekend.

The early part of the year people are often gaming more than in the summer.

tincanman · July 28

I am surprised that the sub-50th level campaigns are not filled though: for those who have no interest in subclassing these would seem the logical place to avoid it and stick with single classes, if somewhat limited in gear etc. Assuming that a sub-50th level character is available, of course...