Your Play Experience b/t Update 45 and Update 46 with Subclassing and Scribing In Base Game

BasP · July 26

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
Not significantly. There’s no denying that subclassed builds using the most optimal skill lines now deal far more DPS than builds did pre-U46, so in that sense, yes: things die faster and content can feel a bit easier because of that. But I was already able to complete the content I wanted to before U46, so I wouldn’t say my ability to play has improved meaningfully.

General feedback about my play experience between U45 and U46:
I have two fully leveled characters of every class (except for just one Sorcerer and one Arcanist), and I used to rotate between them pretty frequently. Since subclassing was introduced, though, I’ve barely touched most of my alts. Every time I look at one, I find myself thinking: “Well... I could swap in these two skill lines and increase its DPS by 20%+." But doing that means all my characters end up feeling very similar - and part of the fun, for me, was in their class identity and unique playstyles.

Apparently, I’m also too much of a min-maxer to use a more thematic or "pure" build when I know it’s significantly weaker than an optimized combo with more meta skill lines. So now I’m stuck between playing something underpowered or playing something that doesn’t feel unique anymore.

Other feedback
I do have to say that I was genuinely excited by the idea of having 1000+ unique skill line combinations and the opportunity to experiment with new, creative builds with subclassing. Unfortunately, due to how large the power gap is between the different skill lines, that excitement hasn’t translated into practice.

Therefore, I personally really hope to see some buffs to underused or underwhelming skill lines soon. Shadow, Dark Magic (even with the U47 change) and Draconic Power all feel like they’re lagging behind in terms of usefulness, for example.

For some skill lines, I also think it’d be a great idea to consolidate near-identical morphs to make room for more distinct or creative alternatives in the future. For example, quite a few players seem interested in building a Druid-style DPS character, but the game currently lacks plant-based damaging abilities. Since many of the morphs in the Green Balance line are very similar, it would be awesome if some of those could be reworked into nature-themed DPS skills instead. Not only would that open up new build options, it would also benefit “pure” Warden damage dealers - who currently have an entire class skill line that’s essentially useless for their role.

All in all, I do think subclassing has the potential to increase build diversity and enable a lot of fun, thematic builds. But in its current form - due to balance issues and rigid role-focus in some skill lines - that potential hasn’t entirely been realized yet in my opinion.

Apollosipod · July 26

The whole system does make me wonder why we have to keep one skill line of our character's original class. I mean, honest what's the point of making one skill line static?

albertberku · July 26

It is to make having alts still relevant, otherwise everyone would just have one character. You have to either grind or spend some crowns to level up alts with all needed skill lines, etc, which either keep players engaged and makes the game look more populated or makes straight earnings.

TaSheen · July 26

Taylord900 wrote: »

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
No. I’m one of those that dropped my sub and left because of U46.

I too. I have never been a fan of subclassing, and all I could see it doing was ruining my favorite classes with nerfs. So I left, haven't booted into the game since a week before zero day, and have now uninstalled.

I do hope that those who are enjoying the new playing field will continue to be happy.

shadyjane62 · July 26

No.

Templar.

Changed nothing as I despise subclassing..

Still got rolled during PVP. Ball groups still ruining everything despite seeing a lot of people that indulged in subclassing.

Game was only worth playing during Vengeance.

francesinhalover · July 26

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

Not much, My jabs necromancer is a lot smoother to play but still doesn't compete with how good my arcanist is with free heals and shields on it's damage abilities. And for aracanist, not much changed. So i just use arcanist for endgame content like before. But at least for open world necromancer is really fun now.

I could technicaly add arcanist abilities to any dmg class but than... they wouldnt really be that class anymore would they? It would just be arcanist +

for my arcanist... Not much changed. Scribbing already gave me access to the buffs i needed. so... yeah i guess using 1 or 2 fire abilities is cool.. when fire breathe hits enemies because the ability can be rather inconsistent.

Haven't explored other classes yet.

Id say the main factor here, roleplay wise, is to have more skill colors. That way i can use any skill and not break another classes theme.
Like im using jabs on necro, because jabs has a blue skill color ya know?

Dino-Jr · July 27

I dont have much more to say than these two builds are close to as fun as anything i have played in any video game....its up there with memories of playing through half-life or diablo 2 for the first time

Templar:

Nightblade:

sub-classing aint perfect but god damn is it fun

(ps. please never mess up this build lol)

Necrotech_Master · July 27

ive been taking my time with the subclassing and scribing

initially the scribing was almost useless because of having to build up script knowledge on characters and then theres the grind for inks (though i will say over the past 6-8 months, the grind for ink has been much less of an issue i generally still feel like its "low" for me but better than it was when scribing first launched) (for reference i still dont have the 500 inks earned achievement yet but im in the 400s now 13 months later)

for scribing i also find the current system kind of limiting, because while there are 12 grimoires available, half of them are limited to specific weapon lines so at most you generally have access to 7 or 8 (depending if you have different weapons on your bars)

subclassing definitely has helped, though im not entirely sure where i want to apply it yet, ive reworked a couple characters such as my pvp NB (cause i hated the shadow and siphoning lines for the way i play), and i reworked a necromancer i had on the backburner into a tank spec, and im working on adding another healer line to my sorc that i play as a healer

so overall i think both things are a positive as they offer more flexibility in the way doing builds, but i also think there are some inherent balance issues especially with the class mastery script on the scribing side

the NB and sorc class masteries are downright awful, but most of the other ones are OK to borderline OP depending on the situation

edit to add: scribing also sucks in the fact that the system is basically unuseable for a good while until you build up enough scripts to really have choice on how you use the grimoires, needing to learn the scripts on every character i feel is overkill as those are more important to gameplay than learning furnishing plans or provisioning recipies

BasP · July 27

I completely forgot to mention Scribing in my previous post, sorry. I got Gold Road on release so I've already used the system for a while and making it a base game feature hasn't changed the way I play between U45 and U46. That said, I do think it's nice that all players have access to it now.

On a related note, I’d really love to see Scribing expanded in the future. New Grimoires would definitely be fun, but I also think it’d be great if more combinations were possible between existing skills and Scripts. At the moment, some damage types like Poison, Disease, and Shock are a bit underrepresented compared to others. Additionally, a few Signature and Affix Scripts are only compatible with a really limited number of skills, so I feel like broadening those options could add a more depth and creativity to the system.

Statusdead · July 27

Thanks to the latest patches, I stopped playing. I chose one class and they offer me another, no. Good luck to all who stayed.

diamondo · July 27

I really hoping that the game designers are listening to these views.

I do sometimes wonder if once the novelty has worn off a lot of returning players will go back and play the other games.
A portion of the “die hard” players that have stuck with eso will have left as subclassing does not feel right, the only outcomes being lower player base than started prior to subclassing update

I certainly feel let down by the subclassing update and no indication that developers are considering options to support players that don’t want to subclass.

Thalmar · July 27

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
No, I like class identity in RPG games and subclassing mostly rendered class identity obsolete.
If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
My main was an stamina arcanist and was having fun with it.
What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
I didn"t have any trouble with single content which I do often and vengance campign for pvp for preventing big ball groups which makes cyrodiil unplayable and unfun.

Overall, if I play pure arcanist I feel my character weakened, if I play subclass I feel not attached to my character for the rp reasons. Also the last month for european server was unfortunate, and I already unsubbed, will return if/when server issues taken care of and cyrodiil is cleared from ball groups. In additon, Scribing questline was fun but I will not do the same things over and over again for weeks if not months just to get a better version of a spell. From my perspective subclassing was the worst could happened to the game.

BretonMage · July 27

1. No. I looked into all the skill lines available in subclassing and could not find a single one I wanted more than the ones in my current class.
2. Magicka sorcerer with daedric summons.
3. Nothing. I don't really want to subclass, and more importantly, I do not want to use Assassination (or any Nightblade skill line) or the green beam, which are absolutely de rigueur these days. They just don't fit my character. So instead of disappointing the players around me with an embarrassingly suboptimal build, I've unsubscribed and now barely play at all.

I don't mind scribing though. Having the flexibility to pick a skill that fits my class thematically is fine.

joergino · July 27

1 No, it didn't. It got much worse. I used to be able to make it through the first part of the Infinite Archive to be butchered either by a marauder, one of the later bosses or on very rare occasions by the annoying toad end boss in the second part. Nowadays I can make it to boss no. four of the first phase on occasion, but usually the third boss marks the end.
2-4 n/a

Apollosipod · July 27

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

No, not really. I've been playing awhile and could compete in any content regardless of subclassing.

General Feedback
Clearly subclassing has been a very contentious topic across the community. I, for one, have enjoyed the change up and I've changed many of my characters to align more with a specific style because of it. However, I think a lot of people also dislike the disjointed appearances of the skills now. Obviously, many people have strong feelings about class identity and the perception of "being forced" to change your skill lines to one meta option or another. I do think that adding color customization options for all class skill lines with a variety of colors to earn in-game would sooth some ruffled feathers. Using that as yet another opportunity to monetize the game after making a change that has caused so much anger in the community seems like a poorly timed move.

Additionally, I think this is the time to seize upon the ability to change out skill lines by adding more skill lines to the game for people to use and fit into the way they view their character. Add a melee class, an alchemist class, sword & spell, etc. There's also the option to give the player the ability to use one of the many NPC-used combat styles already in the game to customize player characters (2H style that the Tho'at Replicanum uses, the Dual Wield style of tons of other NPCs, etc.

Lean into customization in order to gain back goodwill (until the next wave of nerfs that's re inevitably going to anger pure class users)

Storms_in_Argonia · July 27

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

I'm a casual oakensoul dps and my dps did increase from subclassing without going to arcanist.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

Warden heavy attack, templar heavy attack, nightblade heavy attack.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

I wouldn't say I had trouble, but it did allow me to have more than one dps build for mood and it was nice being able to have variety on the same character. For example, previously on my templar I had 1 magicka staff heavy attack build. Now I have 3 builds, with dragonknight and necromancer stuff thrown in. Having greater variety per character has been fun in letting me enjoy my alts more.

What game content was it?

Overland-normal dungeons.

I would say I've not really used scribing much at all outside of healing roles. I've used banner, torch and the restoration staff link in healing builds. The weapon skills look cool, but I've not used them in any content outside of overland chillin.

Eormenric · July 28

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
Yes and no. I decided to invest in a DD build with subclassing, but only to stack fire damage. Subclassing was used for this. Honestly, it didn't turn out that good, so I could have probably done better with the restriction of pure classes. Still, it gave me the confidence and high enough damage to comfortably do vet trials whereas before I did not. I also used it on my Sorcerer Tank, though that wasn't actually needed at all--I just wanted to maximize the amount of debuffs possible. It took me awhile to get into Scribing (I did not enjoy grinding for the class script and all the affixes until I found the ones I wanted). Scribing would have allowed me to remain a pure Sorc and still get access to all the debuffs I wanted.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
See above.

What game content was it?
See above.

flizomica · July 28

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

From a PvE perspective: Yes, in the sense that most of my characters became measurably stronger due to subclassing (I already had scribing/had integrated it into my builds since Gold Road) and therefore have an easier time completing content. No, in the sense that I was already able to comfortably complete that content, and I haven't started engaging with different/harder content as a result of the increased character power.

From a PvP perspective: This has been a very negative experience overall. I'm strictly mid at PvP and have been using the same builds for years that have a solid base power level, while being mostly immune to the buff/nerf cycle of the FOTM picks. Now my PvP specs are wayyyyy behind the subclassing builds from a mathematical perspective. I really don't love PvP enough to want to grind up skill lines that may end up being nerfed in future patches, nor do I have any interest (in either PvE or PvP) in picking a random set of class lines that just happen to be the strongest.

For example, in PvE, it's fine for my characters to be weaker relative to optimal subclassing combos because I can always choose what level of content I want to do, and therefore how powerful my character "needs" to be. In PvP however, being weaker means I will simply always be at a disadvantage relative to other players, and therefore likely have a worse experience (die more/defeat other players less often).

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

I have 1-2 characters of every class that I switch up playing based on my mood and the content I'm doing. My main/often default character is a frost Warden, who got some fun new frosty tools first with scribing, and then with subclassing.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

Getting more powerful wasn't the main goal for subclassing for me, but it was a consequence. On each of my characters, I swapped out one unused skill line (typically a support-oriented line) for a damage line that also thematically fit that character. For example, I added Grave Lord to my frost Warden and dropped Green Balance, because the frost-y Boneyard really suits her vibes, while also having nice passives. On my ranger (bow/bow) Warden, I swapped Winter's Embrace for Assassination for the spectral bow proc. On my Stamsorc themed after the Shehai, I swapped Dark Magic for Aedric Spear. And so on. This opened up interesting and powerful new combinations, while also keeping the original class/character identity.

What game content was it?

I used to do endgame PvE, but these days I stick to harder solo or just casual content. Stuff like VMA, VVH, IA, soloing DLC world bosses, or just questing/achievement hunting. Theoretically the higher power levels would allow me to complete endgame vet content that I haven't done with greater ease (e.g. the newer vet trials or newer dungeon trifectas), but the collectible rewards these days are so lame compared to what we used to get before 2020-ish that I really don't care enough to try.

Lucifer1309 · July 28

[*] Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
[*] If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
[*] What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
[*] What game content was it?

* It has become harder to play
* Nightblade, Warden
* DPS builds have arcanist and/or nightblade added and are all roughtly the same build, healers have templar+warden
* Battlegrounds

Navithra · July 28

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?
Like others, I'm having a hard time answering this question.

In regards to PVE: content is easier in the sense that you simply slot the best abilities to complete it, leading to the homogenized experience you've seen discussed ad nauseam. It's easier, certainly, but I was already managing almost all normal and a decent chunk of veteran content solo before the update. I wasn't the best player but I wasn't terrible by any means. Of the DLC group content I was struggling with, it made sense because I mean .. it's a multiplayer online game. Lacking the crazy amount of skill to solo some of it, it made sense that group content needs group members. Go figure.

In regards to PVP: The gap between meta players and players who are attempting to 'play their way' is more exaggerated now. You can absolutely play the way you want, but the nature of the game encourages you to not do so. I'm not very good as a PVPer by any means, but I was at least jumping in from time to time and getting better through experience. I would say this type of content got more punishing, because for this you really cannot afford to play the way you want - you're basically only going to die in PVP if you do, and that's just. Really not fun.

I guess what I'm getting at is that content is easier, but it's not necessarily more pleasant if that makes sense? Right now I'm feeling like some of my avenues for participating were reduced after the update. I"m more hesitant to do content with others, because If I want to PVE or PVP, then I will need to slot very specific abilities to be the most useful version of my character I can be, especially for my group members. The update washed away any semblance of class identity.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?
I have alts but my main is a Warden, double frost staves, frost/2h, and restoration staff/frost staff depending on what I'm doing.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?
Green Balance to Assassination, Grave Lord

General Feedback
I think play your way and deep customization is a really admirable values that ESO should continue to strive for, and I think the current direction sort've undercut that goal by incentivizing linear playstyles. While it might not have been the intention, the update felt like instead of adding content (like new classes) you simply ... reshuffled some stuff around and then branded what already existed as new and an expansion to gameplay choices. In a way I guess in a way it is technically new. I think this might warrant a look at your customer's morale around the future of the game.

My genuine feedback on what should happen is that the combat system was already overdue for an overhaul. Combat (and character model quality) is already the biggest turn off I've had in trying to get friends to play the game.

What I'd personally love to see is to rework of the existing classes, polish on the animations to address the 'feel' of combat, addition of two new classes (including a true, genuine martial class that doesn't moonlight as a spellblade), expansion of scribing a bit further, and a reintroduction of a modified version of multiclassing where players are limited to one additional class choice, but with more nuanced benefits between pure and blended classes.

Elvenheart · July 28

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

Not yet. So far I’ve only created a new character just for Subclassing, an Elementalist, and I find my Oakensoul pet Sorcerer to be better for soloing harder content still. I’m still working on how to make my Elementalist perform better.

I haven’t yet altered any existing characters because for me there has to be a in-game reason behind their builds. Very recently, I have come up with an in-game reason for why an Arcanist/Nightblade/Templar might exist by saying that in their past, they were originally an Nightblade and then left that behind to become a Templar, and then recently discovered their book from a Apocrypha, but I went to change my Arcanist, first soloing Lep Seclusa to get a before and after comparison and realized how much I liked him just the way he was, using all of his skill lines in his current build. I may try again at some point.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

I have multiple characters of every class with various builds.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

Nothing, see above.

What game content was it?

See above.

Final thoughts, I really liked the concept of Subclassing when it first came out just for the ability to create new classes. I thought that I would also want to use it to make my existing characters better, but every time I’ve tried, I’ve found I’ve not really wanted to change anything yet. I’ve had several ideas about making my Warden more Druid-like, and making my no-pet Sorcerers better by giving up the Daedric Summoning line, but I really like Hardened Ward. The Scribing version puts a shield on me OR an ally, and it’s rather irritating when it goes to my companion instead of me. I know I can also use Ulfrid’s Contingency to create a shield, I’ve been doing that on a couple of characters. What I’m hoping is that at some point individual new class skill lines get added as an option someday. And with so many people unhappy about Subclassing, I hope the system can be improved in such a way that addresses as many of their concerns as possible so everyone can get to a happier place with it, especially when it comes to pure classes needing to be as powerful as a Subclassed one.

diamondo · July 28

So do peeps think we will be getting any updates on changes made to support the pure class players sooon, I’m missing me PVP fix as it were

fingers crossed 🤞

Ezhh · July 29

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

No. My preferred DD set ups all decreased in power and the only remaining options that make sense for the level I play at are slow, boring and unengaging to me. I am no longer subscribed to ESO+ as a result and find myself playing much less. Meanwhile many of the people I have played with for years have left or are in the process of withdrawing from the game for similar reasons. The result is it's now more difficult for me to complete content that I found it easy to complete before.

Why are your follow up questions only aimed at those who give a positive answer to the first? If "any and all feedback is helpful" then I hope the negatives are also being passed back for consideration. Many people who loved and supported this game for years have left due to these changes or are on their way out.

Liukke · July 29

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

Does it even matter? Complete? Yes, I can complete stuff but the game has become washed out, my StamDK is basically an arcanist with a tumor (i.e. the leftover DK skill line).
So yeah, I can now complete stuff by pretending to be an arcanist, the DK is still a piece of crap.

Is this just about inclusivity? Letting people see the end screen of a dungeon or having the loot in the pocket?
Trials have become so useless, everybody used to bring in a buff or unique ability (as DK I was bringing minor brutality or just helping mass breaching with noxious breath) whereas now everything is in the tanks/healers and the DD can be literal children who just hit without any clue and that's it.

So yeah, be happy, lots of people can complete now the content.
Those who wanted to have fun instead are kinda going away.

P.S.
The main problem for me is that I was FORCED to subclass. And I think this is the problem with everyone else.
Subclass isn't a variation of playstyle, is straight up an improvement, and a huge one at that.
I went from a 83k dps on a StamDK to almost 140k with DK/NB/Arc subclass...and that's brutal, nobody in their right mind will stick to a pureclass.
On the same character I have a tank build, and I went from being a good tank to literally giving everybody major/minor resolve, minor brutality/evasion/courage, breaching the hell out of monsters so that nobody needs Alkosh, nobody needs more than 2330 penetration to deal full damage...all playstyles have gone, you just need one tank like that, one tank for more party buff (guess what, major force and major slayer) and you're good to go.
DDs are dumbed down, just needing damage, Tanks are forced to triclass DK/Arc/Warden, your multiple choices just narrowed everything down to a couple.

That on top of the fact that you've literally crippled the DK and other classes (DK is the one I use and I have experience of) in order to "fit" within the subclass system, decimating it's resource sustain and making it utterly useless, it's now unplayable in solo...you've killed off the uniqueness of all classes so that they can "synergise" better within each other...and in case somebody is too slow to understand it, that means killing class identity, really the opposite of what you've been claiming/aiming.

So yeah, we're all now in this subclass boat, whether we want it or not...thanks?

Xarc · July 29

HI.

I used subclassing for some of my unused characters. I wanted to give them a new lease on life.

however, i'm actually playing a lot my templar and the class it good itself, I dont need suclassing I stay pure as a templar ^^ (100% pvp)

fufu_from_ps4 · July 29

[*] Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46? no
[*] If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build? predominantly magsorc, but i could play all classes and specs.
[*] What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before? i swapped builds 3 times trying to make magsorc work in pvp, however it is now obsolete and is no longer capable of competing in pvp.
[*] What game content was it? pvp

overall the introduction of subclassing has rendered the majority of old classes obsolete. it has reduced build diversity to a small handful of builds (like i predicted before patch was launched as this was quite obvious). what this has done to the playerbase is this. small scale/solo/and ball group players who have fully embraced the system, and sorted thru all the classes to boil it down to what is the most powerful.... are dominating. their builds have been buffed by upwards of 75%, which has led to the casual player is getting destroyed. this has led to cyrodiil becoming a ghost town mostly.

the game was literally upended, we told you this would happen, you did it anyways.

the analogy i gave before is sadly the same as today. imagine zos is a soldier gone rogue, ignored all orders and advice, and is now standing on top of an anti personel mine. if you step off.... roll back the patch.... you will lose your leg. you wont die, but you're losing 30% of revenue immediately and there will be huge backlash.... bleeding all over..... but you live.

if you dont step off, and intend to ride this out.... you will end up starving in the desert slowly. slowly dieing as your faithful playerbase of 10 years reluctantly looks for other games that dont destroy themselves by not listening to the playerbase. this was such an avoidable issue but the EGO of the studio was too big to listen to filthy degenerate gamers.

this is such a bad design choice, and the studio has made so many choices while ignoring feedback.... it would be funny if it werent so sad.

even during the pvp event people arent playing. perhaps you can blame the public testing, and the pvp event before that for the lack of participation.... but let me tell you bro. i have a friends list with 100 SWEATS from pvp on it..... the majority of them have stopped playing daily. i used to have 20 people on every night in cyrodiil.... its around 4 people and usually not in cyro anymore.

with subclassing you now choose one of 3 pvp builds, and if you dont you are like 60% power and have no chance at winning. this means you either must throw away your class fantasy and play in one of those 3 ways, or quit. and the majority of pvp veterans have decided to quit.

fufu_from_ps4 · July 29

Stamicka wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

I vividly remember one of the citations from the combat team years back, that we should easily and precisely determine what class we're going up against and now I'm quite puzzled to how this philosophy should work nowadays when there's no pure classes to expect, to begin with.

Yea this is a really good point that's especially relevant for PvP accessibility.

So when I was new to ESO PvP, I like many others, thought that magsorcs were overpowered. It's one of those classes that I would see complaints about constantly. Now it was a strong class no doubt, but I was able to learn certain things that made it very easy to handle magsorcs in the long run. Everything became somewhat predictable. For example, at the time Crystal Fragments stunned, but there was a very clear indicator when an enemy player had one ready. I also developed an internal sense of timing for when a Daedric Curse was about to explode due to encountering it often. So since sorcs tended to have a predictable kit and play style, I gradually learned to block or roll at times to prevent dying to either a Daedric curse frag combo, or a Dawnbreaker Curse combo.

Now really experienced sorcs knew how to mix things up or time things in a way to still get kills. Some level of predictability was absolutely crucial when it came to me learning how to PvP though.

Subclassing takes this away. While skills still have indicators, there's so many more things for newer players to die to. In many cases they won't see clear patterns that help them learn. They might get shalked into a double merciless resolve, or defiled and DOTed down by a Necro/DK combo... who knows, a lot is possible.

This absolutely isn't to say that I'm against burst in PvP as a whole, I think it's great. However, PvP will now be more difficult to learn and to get into now that subclassing is in the game. That's a really bad thing for a game that's losing almost all of its veterans. There were better ways to bring burst and lower TTK back into PvP, subclassing did it in a very unhealthy way and PvP is worse for it.

spot on. also new players need to grind for literally 150 hours to even have a chance at pvp(1 to cp700, undaunted/spijic/scrying/scribing and then you gotta grind gear from god knows which arenas, then go farm mythic leads, then get them....... even then they are going to get destroyed due to a massive knowledge difference. not only is this patch killing the game, but the long grind for new players is also killing it. no new player is going to spend years to be on an equal footing.

zos trying to make $50 selling skillines but its a barrier to entry for new players. its not a service its downright ignorant. we paid to get in, paid for eso plus, and then the grind is so un-fun they offer to let us pay to not play the game.

Deimus · July 29

Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

If I remained a pure Necromancer no, if I subclassed yes.

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

PvP Necromancer I've stuck with it since the class released.

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

Before U46 I didn't have problems, in fact it was the best Necromancer has felt since Graverobber and Harmony. I swapped out Living Death for Siphoning after the update. Mainly due to the pet/corpse conflict with Necro and the nerf to sustain in Living Death. Siphoning had much greater sustain before the nerf to Undead Confederate, wouldn't clash with the pet/corpse limit, better ult gen, gave a bonus to my resource pools, better passive healing, access to targeted cc, and cc at the start of an ult instead of the end (3rd and final Colossus smash is the stun. The whole Necromancer can't have any instant cc really needs to change ZOS). Since Siphoning feels more like a vampire skill line it doesn't mess with the background of my character, but I'd like to see bonuses to pure classes as I want my character to feel more like a Necromancer than anything else.

What game content was it?

PvP

General Feedback

I like the idea, but I think you guys did too much at once. On paper the freedom sounds great and would go well in a single player game, but in an MMO absolute freedom narrows viable build diversity greatly as everyone will converge to the few combinations that are leagues above everything else. For past examples before hybridization I had two of each class one for Magicka and one for Stamina. After half of those characters just became writ mules, and I'd play the other half when I was in the mood to play that class, but I mainly stuck to Necromancer. Now with subclassing I've only bothered to play 3 of those 7 characters as everything else has become redundant.

Swapping out only one class line or subclassing a 4th line to the 3 existing class lines would have created more variety while still shaking things up. Ironically limitations in games creates more viable build diversity. In the last Vengeance test playing with friends and dueling I would see 4 players on the same class with very different playstyles using the limited skill pool and each one of them was still effective.

Now PvP is mainly Assassination, Storm Calling, Animal Companions, and Restoring Light. When 75% of players in every battleground are using the same skills it gets old fast. I'm sure a lot of players don't care and just play whatever is meta or strongest, but when I have to sacrifice the background of my character to be competitive I quickly lose the desire to play.

I hope going forward the combat team keeps tabs on the most and least used skill lines then balances them accordingly to create actual viable build diversity and curbs outliers outside of that 3 month update schedule. Honestly it's too long of a gap for a game this big and some of the patches aren't impactful enough to address issues making it 6 months or more without meaningful changes. U47 doesn't have anything in it that will change the current composition of build viability. The most used lines will still be the same and there is nothing to boost the least used ones. Before subclassing you at least had 7 distinct classes behind the proc set, now behind the proc we have 75% of the players running the same 2/3 skill lines. If you want that true freedom to be represented outside of overland content that was already too simple before subclassing, then it's going to take more effort than we've ever seen in terms of combat balance with this system. It might be possible, but I don't think U47 is a good indicator that we will be going in that direction.

I already had Scribing with Gold Road, but it's great my favorite addition since Necromancer. I was actually hoping to see a few more grimoires so far this year. I think the Lingering Torment DoT component needs a buff 5500 damage over 10 seconds is very weak, it could be 8500 over 10 seconds, and the Warden charm needs to be reigned in longer cooldown, blockable, or just a regular stun. In terms of a balanced addition to shake up the game I think Scribing was done very well and is more successful at meeting the "Play your way" idea than Subclassing as it doesn't limit build viability instead adding to it by giving more tools to under performing classes.

nb_rich · July 29

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All! We are looking to understand how Update 46 and the launch of Subclassing, and more recently making Scribing a part of the base game, may have changed the play experience and character build for you and the content you engage in.
Did your ability to play and/or complete certain types of game content improve after the launch of Update 46?

If so, prior to the launch of Update 46, what was your character build?

What did you change to your character build when Update 46 launched that allowed you to play or complete content that you had trouble with before?

What game content was it?

Any and all feedback is helpful for us to relay back to the Combat Team. That way, they have anecdotal experience to add to their existing data. Thanks in advance to all constructive feedback!

(This is strictly to get feedback on your play experience between Update 45 and Update 46. We are not factoring Update 47 PTS feedback in this since it is not available to everyone at the moment).

To be honest, im definitely able to complete more content. Im actually in the process of completing all the vet dungeons now that everyone is so over powered. As someone that feels like I capped out for what I was able to complete until I got better, this gave me more to do and have me playing more.

I have been using my Templar to run through content but the subclassing changes felt best for my Nightblade. i always felt like it was difficult for y’all to balance this class and personally felt it lacked a good spammable for AOE damage. Due to this my Nightblade has been on the bench for who knows how long and funny part is Nightblade was my first character I made. I feel like this is the class that benefit the most from subclassing.

Guess what I changed was my spammable to fatecarver, if y’all patch it in the future ima just switch to jabs lol which I actually like more, just fatecarver os so good and broken it can’t be replaced until every other spammable gets a buff.

For my feedback it would just be to buff all spammables to compete with fatecarver. Its getting boring using fatecarver but impossible to replace when it can be used from range, hits multiple targets, costs almost no resources, provides a damage shield and has some of the best passives of any skill line.

An idea for jabs will be make both morphs provide major brutality and sorcery, but also heal. Just make one morph magica and one stamina. I think this would compete with fatecarver. The downside to fatecarver would be you pretty much need to have 3 skills slotted to use it properly, while jabs you would have 2 extra skill slots to utilize.

tincanman · July 30

Ezhh wrote: »

...many of the people I have played with for years have left or are in the process of withdrawing from the game for similar reasons. The result is it's now more difficult for me to complete content that I found it easy to complete before....

^ this.

With the tragic loss of skill and knowledge which can no longer be passed forward.