Arrow312 wrote: »

I can only speak for myself, but a Cyrodiil without sets and everything else makes no sense to me. For me, it would be the final nail in the coffin. I only play PvP because I just can't see anything else after umpteen runs. Housing has never interested me.
If you give me a version without sets etc. then I might as well play something else. Because the PvE is then completely irrelevant, as I don't need anything else from it.

Well hate to disappoint you, but they wont be adding sets to vengeance for probably another 4 or more tests. Even if they do, it will be basic sets like Hundings or maybe the noproc campaign sets.

• Test 1 - class skills
• Test 2 - weapon & Alliance skills, noticeable lag likely due to resto heal stacking in groups
• Test 3 - Guild & armor skills, background testing for skyshards, mounts, achievements, random systems in general (maybe they think they are updating too much during pvp or something?)
• Test 4 - ??? Expecting skill lines like vamp, WW, psijic based on the Survey
• Test 5 - ??? Maybe different Aoe cap rules based on Livestreams or more background tests. Damage/stuns have higher cap, heals have a lower cap. Prevents lingering ticks and promotes combat to end group fights and ticks quicker.
• Test 6 - ??? Hopefully healing or group tick limitation tests based on Test 2 results. (cross healing outside group, Hot and Buff not stacking, Hot overheal cut)
• Test 7 - ??? Skills get damage based on stats instead of flat values
• Test 8 - ??? Passives
• Test 9 - ??? Mundus

SolarRune wrote: »

Wasn't the suggestion feom zos that there would be some sets in vengeance 3??

I think there needs to be great care in over interpreting what's going on here, is vengeance the future direction for PvP, the answer is probably yes. HOWEVER, will it be the vengeance versions we have currently seen be that product, I think is a clear no.
It feels like vengeance is the modal to both recode PvP from the ground up again, and providing a way to separately balance PvP and PvE, both are things that I have seen asked for by people that are anti-vengeance, I just don't get it.

No there has been no mention of sets for vengeance 3....sets are going to be probably the last thing introduced, but it is what people want the most because it makes people feel like they have a choice.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

SolarRune wrote: »

Wasn't the suggestion feom zos that there would be some sets in vengeance 3??

I think there needs to be great care in over interpreting what's going on here, is vengeance the future direction for PvP, the answer is probably yes. HOWEVER, will it be the vengeance versions we have currently seen be that product, I think is a clear no.
It feels like vengeance is the modal to both recode PvP from the ground up again, and providing a way to separately balance PvP and PvE, both are things that I have seen asked for by people that are anti-vengeance, I just don't get it.

No there has been no mention of sets for vengeance 3....sets are going to be probably the last thing introduced, but it is what people want the most because it makes people feel like they have a choice.

Thats the point i dont like this template. I want to build my own build. How many said ZOS should take a look at HoTs and shields? Imo we need a cap of HoTs when you see a BG status bar there are min 5 Hots running at the same time. This stacking make them unkillable because the damage they get will never be higher the heals.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LPapirius wrote: »

ZOS is SAYING it's just a test.

ZOS is ACTING like vengeance is going to be the only option at some point relatively soon.

I don't think ZOS and the few PvP mains advocating vengeance realize how bad things are going to go for the game as a whole if vengeance mode becomes the only option. It'll be like the no CP camp was. Plus, vengeance mode disconnects the need to PvE to get gears and materials and other things. So with a vengeance mandate there will be no reason to PvE if all we want to do is PvP.

You say that with such conviction, yet ZOS has said nothing to that effect. Not at all.

It pains for me to say this as a PvP main, but you are far overstating the importance of the tiny PvP community. If we had any impact on ZOS's bottom line, it would not have taken them 6 years to offer a single update to Battlegrounds (and then subsequently ignore it) and ten years since, what 1.2, to finally get serious in embarking on a attempt to do something about lag.

The moment it is deemed essential to bribe people to do the content rather than play and enjoy it for its own sake, that is pretty much the death knell.

How much you wanna bet Vengeance and "addressing PvP lag" is in part to facilitate larger PvE overland content. Like, I dunno, the Writhing Wall?

You don;t want to take that bet. In no universe is ZOS ever going to use PvP as an incentive to get people to PvE

What?

No, I mean server performance to allow a greater number of players and trash mobs in a location at once with less lag to really give a feeling of scale for what might essentially be a PvE "warzone".

As in, utilizing their netcode improvements across both isles.

Doesnt seem Vengeance will replace Grey Host for some time other than 1 week tests as ZOS did not add Vengeance even as an option during Midyear Mayham.

But somehow ZOS is unable to let players choose which mode they prefer despite enaugh queue in Vengeance to to fill multiple Standart campaigns on first days and most players preferring one playstile not playing the other.

I hope it becomes the new mode, because PvP is unplayable right now. Came back after a hiatus, but imagine my surprise when people were unkillable. It was so much fun to see everyone use Negate and Streak...

Back to hiatus I go! Well, until Vengeance mode is part of the game.

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

I hope it becomes the new mode, because PvP is unplayable right now. Came back after a hiatus, but imagine my surprise when people were unkillable. It was so much fun to see everyone use Negate and Streak...

Back to hiatus I go! Well, until Vengeance mode is part of the game.

Vengeance mode will drive most of the PvP mains from the game if it's mandated. So ZOS is creating a real pickle for themselves if they ever decide to mandate vengeance mode.

How so? It'll allow for a much larger player base where non-pvp players can take part and not feel overwhelmed.

Quackery wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

I hope it becomes the new mode, because PvP is unplayable right now. Came back after a hiatus, but imagine my surprise when people were unkillable. It was so much fun to see everyone use Negate and Streak...

Back to hiatus I go! Well, until Vengeance mode is part of the game.

Vengeance mode will drive most of the PvP mains from the game if it's mandated. So ZOS is creating a real pickle for themselves if they ever decide to mandate vengeance mode.

How so? It'll allow for a much larger player base where non-pvp players can take part and not feel overwhelmed.

Honestly as someone who is "pro-testing" I'd agree with it actually driving away current PvP mains who particularly enjoy this kind of PvP we have in the last 4-5 years. One reason I don't really think having just one campaign and ruleset would work for everyone as clearly there's now an audience for something we quit from years ago. At the same time a lot of ex PvP mains are wanting to return and there's no place for them currently with death of no-CP campaigns. New folks also don't seem particularly interested as it's pretty dead to begin with. The caps are low, no pop even for those minimal caps in place, years of bad decisions are still there and player behaviour and habits are even worse than they ever were, and are supported by the lack of any attention to the mode. There's literally no way without making it again from scratch to have a chance for a healthy PvP again, where people do want to stick around. And that's still a maybe as trust is broken years ago, not everyone is ready to dive in again to just end up as previously dumped away for the new audiences with new needs.

Quackery wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

I hope it becomes the new mode, because PvP is unplayable right now. Came back after a hiatus, but imagine my surprise when people were unkillable. It was so much fun to see everyone use Negate and Streak...

Back to hiatus I go! Well, until Vengeance mode is part of the game.

Vengeance mode will drive most of the PvP mains from the game if it's mandated. So ZOS is creating a real pickle for themselves if they ever decide to mandate vengeance mode.

How so? It'll allow for a much larger player base where non-pvp players can take part and not feel overwhelmed.

As someone who has spent over a decade on PvP games when something that aims to be inclusive to all players occurs a casual player will immediately state: This is good for the game.

The problem that occurs after is two months after release that activity is completely dead because the casual player literally does not care about the game. They only care about the two months of experiencing that event.

The experienced players will return everyday to play. I know a few guilds that have been running SINCE LAUNCH in Cyrodiil almost every day.

This is a very unique community and it will perish if something like vengeance came to simplify and make a rare PvP environment mundane like every other game that exists.

This is the one thing that ESO has somewhat done right (not without its flaws).

Blackrim wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

AngryPenguin wrote: »

Quackery wrote: »

I hope it becomes the new mode, because PvP is unplayable right now. Came back after a hiatus, but imagine my surprise when people were unkillable. It was so much fun to see everyone use Negate and Streak...

Back to hiatus I go! Well, until Vengeance mode is part of the game.

Vengeance mode will drive most of the PvP mains from the game if it's mandated. So ZOS is creating a real pickle for themselves if they ever decide to mandate vengeance mode.

How so? It'll allow for a much larger player base where non-pvp players can take part and not feel overwhelmed.

As someone who has spent over a decade on PvP games when something that aims to be inclusive to all players occurs a casual player will immediately state: This is good for the game.

The problem that occurs after is two months after release that activity is completely dead because the casual player literally does not care about the game. They only care about the two months of experiencing that event.

The experienced players will return everyday to play. I know a few guilds that have been running SINCE LAUNCH in Cyrodiil almost every day.

This is a very unique community and it will perish if something like vengeance came to simplify and make a rare PvP environment mundane like every other game that exists.

This is the one thing that ESO has somewhat done right (not without its flaws).

While I do agree with this fully, I guess the issue is that years of decisions cannot be undone without some kind of a rework nowadays, starting from the block one adding and subtracting things to see what works, performs and is attracting players.
Also a huge factor here is that the active audience is so low and new blood is non existent which wasn't the case years back - no bad decision or change was able to shake the general population significantly for quite some time.

Yes, dedicated players would be there no matter what every evening but their numbers are so small now it's just not sustainable anymore and a compromise should be taken somewhere for the new audiences that zos attracted throughout the last five years to start joining the larger game or attract new or old players alike back at it if that's even possible on a larger scale. It's either worked on or left to rot until there's literally no one left with such a pase.