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• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
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Official Discussion Thread for "Meet the Character—Wormblood"
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Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭True, but really Mannimarco comes across as a lone wizard plotting in his tower. Maybe he doesn't trust advisors, because he knows how shifty he was as an advisor. No idea why he trusted Wormblood as much as he apparently did.
Actually we already had another one, in Elsweyr:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Zumog_Phoom
Well, no advisor, but obviously some kind of former student(?) or assistant.Cat reflexes and cat strength!
Against an extremely powerful lich?You're correct. I did that part of the quest this morning, and the full face mask is there. It's funny how my memory had it different--basically substituted moving lips for the mask.
I think there must be a reason his face is fully covered. Normally, it would not matter whether you might see it, or see part of it. Dried up lich reveal?
Would a lich's voice sound like that? Does a lich even still have a tongue to speak? Things are getting complicated
When we negotiate for exchanging the gift of death for Vanny, Wormblood does say his people can bring us through the Wall, so seems the wall is only impenetrable to the Stirk Fellowship.
Cultists can cross, animals and daedra can cross, well, probably everyone can except for us. Why? It's not like there's some "Stirk Fellow energy signature" they could attune the Wall to.Yes, because he has a power-up in the form of Mor Naril (according to a ghost in a crypt). I had forgotten about that--the secret source of power Wormblood has access to. That is probably how he's doing all these things with portals and daedric realms.
Now I got so distracted by trying to remember what "mor" meant in Turkish (because I once knew it) that I forgot what I wanted to... ah yes; I was wondering how that place might look like. An ancient temple to Molag Bal. What kind of architecture would we expect?Another thing the ghost said, was that Mor Naril is only partially working, and that the gift of death could fully wake it. So was Wormblood going to use the gift of death to both bring back Mannimarco and awaken the full power of Mor Naril?
But it was said to be 1 time use only, so either Mannimarco or the temple. Maybe the temple was what Wormblood was actually thiniking about, with or without resurrecting Mannimarco (whose return without the artifact still seems rather puzzling).
Another question is: How does one even "resurrect" a temple? What is it, actually? Some kind of machine or magical apparatus? Or maybe even some kind of creature? Maybe some creature related to Molag Bal directly, so its resurrection could be used to regain his favor?
The name would not be unfitting. There are the mythical children of Vivec and Molag Bal, that are mentioned in the Lessons; one of them is named Gulga Mor Jil. Then again, didn't we already check whether Mor Naril might have some meaning in the Ayleid language? Wasn't it something like "dark end" or so? Who knows.I expected daily quests, but since in the stream they did mention story quests, I got my hopes up. Maybe when they said story quests they were just referring to the daily quests. Sometimes those have story in them.
Strictly seen, most quests have a "story" or dialogue, even if it's just "Hello. Fetch me item x. Thanks for fetching me item x. Bye."@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭True, but really Mannimarco comes across as a lone wizard plotting in his tower. Maybe he doesn't trust advisors, because he knows how shifty he was as an advisor. No idea why he trusted Wormblood as much as he apparently did.
Actually we already had another one, in Elsweyr:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Zumog_Phoom
Well, no advisor, but obviously some kind of former student(?) or assistant.
I always thought Zumog was stepping into the power vacuum created by Mannimarco's defeat at Sancre Tor.
Raz jumped on him before Wormblood was fully finished with his self-rez. He wasn't a fully powered powerful lich at that point.You're correct. I did that part of the quest this morning, and the full face mask is there. It's funny how my memory had it different--basically substituted moving lips for the mask.
I think there must be a reason his face is fully covered. Normally, it would not matter whether you might see it, or see part of it. Dried up lich reveal?
Would a lich's voice sound like that? Does a lich even still have a tongue to speak? Things are getting complicated
Hah, yes. Are we sure he's a lich, though? I know there was speculation he might be, but was it ever confirmed? Everyone refers to him as a necromancer.When we negotiate for exchanging the gift of death for Vanny, Wormblood does say his people can bring us through the Wall, so seems the wall is only impenetrable to the Stirk Fellowship.
Cultists can cross, animals and daedra can cross, well, probably everyone can except for us. Why? It's not like there's some "Stirk Fellow energy signature" they could attune the Wall to.
Maybe it's attuned to some kind of Coldharbour energy. That's why Honor could cross, and the daedra, and presumably the cultists have all been there.Yes, because he has a power-up in the form of Mor Naril (according to a ghost in a crypt). I had forgotten about that--the secret source of power Wormblood has access to. That is probably how he's doing all these things with portals and daedric realms.
Now I got so distracted by trying to remember what "mor" meant in Turkish (because I once knew it) that I forgot what I wanted to... ah yes; I was wondering how that place might look like. An ancient temple to Molag Bal. What kind of architecture would we expect?
I supposed Argonian ziggurat architecture, because Argonians are native to the island and the Stone Nest--the ones who never abandoned the ziggurat life--live on the eastern half. I'd need to know who else might have lived on the island in ancient times to guess what a temple to Molag Bal might look like.Another thing the ghost said, was that Mor Naril is only partially working, and that the gift of death could fully wake it. So was Wormblood going to use the gift of death to both bring back Mannimarco and awaken the full power of Mor Naril?
But it was said to be 1 time use only, so either Mannimarco or the temple. Maybe the temple was what Wormblood was actually thiniking about, with or without resurrecting Mannimarco (whose return without the artifact still seems rather puzzling).
Another question is: How does one even "resurrect" a temple? What is it, actually? Some kind of machine or magical apparatus? Or maybe even some kind of creature? Maybe some creature related to Molag Bal directly, so its resurrection could be used to regain his favor?
The name would not be unfitting. There are the mythical children of Vivec and Molag Bal, that are mentioned in the Lessons; one of them is named Gulga Mor Jil. Then again, didn't we already check whether Mor Naril might have some meaning in the Ayleid language? Wasn't it something like "dark end" or so? Who knows.
Was it said to be one time use only, or did it just become that suddenly when it got used and changed to the Light of Meridia? Because if it was one time use only, how would they have ever been able to figure out the rules of it? I think that was one of the plot points that confused us in the final quest for part one. Or at least confused me.
The ghost specifically said "awaken" the temple's full power, so it gave the impression of something being asleep all these ages. So maybe it is a creature of some sort. One of the Clan Corelanya history books talks about Mor Naril. I'll give it a read-through to refresh my memory.I expected daily quests, but since in the stream they did mention story quests, I got my hopes up. Maybe when they said story quests they were just referring to the daily quests. Sometimes those have story in them.
Strictly seen, most quests have a "story" or dialogue, even if it's just "Hello. Fetch me item x. Thanks for fetching me item x. Bye."
Lol, yeah. But the world boss and delve dailies to tend to have a bit more story to them, often with optional npcs to talk to. So there might be some of that in the event dailies.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I always thought Zumog was stepping into the power vacuum created by Mannimarco's defeat at Sancre Tor.
I remember there was a lore bit about how he was taught by him, although I can hardly imagine a normal apprenticeship or something alike. Sounded more like he had been prepared to do whatever in case something happens to Mannimarco (even if just temporarily). But I can't remember the wording anymore after that many years.Hah, yes. Are we sure he's a lich, though? I know there was speculation he might be, but was it ever confirmed? Everyone refers to him as a necromancer.
Nah, not confirmed yet. And maybe he truly isn't. But it would be an explanation for him wearing a mask. And I think being physically rotten has never been a source of problems when talking to us in this game. So many things talk to us that actually shouldn't.Maybe it's attuned to some kind of Coldharbour energy. That's why Honor could cross, and the daedra, and presumably the cultists have all been there.
Well, we've been there, too, and most of our circus troupe as well
I supposed Argonian ziggurat architecture, because Argonians are native to the island and the Stone Nest--the ones who never abandoned the ziggurat life--live on the eastern half. I'd need to know who else might have lived on the island in ancient times to guess what a temple to Molag Bal might look like.
Do we know anything about the temple's age?Was it said to be one time use only, or did it just become that suddenly when it got used and changed to the Light of Meridia?
Yes. That was also the reasoning behind Gabrielle using it, so it would be worthless after that and Wormblood couldn't use it.Because if it was one time use only, how would they have ever been able to figure out the rules of it? I think that was one of the plot points that confused us in the final quest for part one. Or at least confused me.
Indeed that doesn't make much sense. Especially since I think there was even another dialogue where they talked about using it on slaves, prisoners or workers before or so?The ghost specifically said "awaken" the temple's full power, so it gave the impression of something being asleep all these ages. So maybe it is a creature of some sort. One of the Clan Corelanya history books talks about Mor Naril. I'll give it a read-through to refresh my memory.
Whatever it is, I hope it will be surprising and have interesting lore, at best connected to a bigger lore topic; basically another puzzle piece to TES metaphysics. Not just "There's a random artifact, it needs activation by sacrifice of 1 life" (probably the Breton, and then there's an explosion and Gabrielle returns) and that's it. Or maybe even no lore at all.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I always thought Zumog was stepping into the power vacuum created by Mannimarco's defeat at Sancre Tor.
I remember there was a lore bit about how he was taught by him, although I can hardly imagine a normal apprenticeship or something alike. Sounded more like he had been prepared to do whatever in case something happens to Mannimarco (even if just temporarily). But I can't remember the wording anymore after that many years.
I can't either. And he seemed to have pretty grand plans of his own. Must be a necromancer prerequisite.
Yeah, I should have thought of that. *sigh* I guess we're just back to the good old standby: it's magic!I supposed Argonian ziggurat architecture, because Argonians are native to the island and the Stone Nest--the ones who never abandoned the ziggurat life--live on the eastern half. I'd need to know who else might have lived on the island in ancient times to guess what a temple to Molag Bal might look like.
Do we know anything about the temple's age?
There may be something about it in the book.
Right, but I thought at the time that was rather a leap to make, considering she'd known about the gift for all of half a day.Because if it was one time use only, how would they have ever been able to figure out the rules of it? I think that was one of the plot points that confused us in the final quest for part one. Or at least confused me.
Indeed that doesn't make much sense. Especially since I think there was even another dialogue where they talked about using it on slaves, prisoners or workers before or so?
I think there was. The lore surrounding it seems a bit murky. Then again, it was a corrupted light of Meridia, so no saying how accurate anyone's analysis of it could be.The ghost specifically said "awaken" the temple's full power, so it gave the impression of something being asleep all these ages. So maybe it is a creature of some sort. One of the Clan Corelanya history books talks about Mor Naril. I'll give it a read-through to refresh my memory.
Whatever it is, I hope it will be surprising and have interesting lore, at best connected to a bigger lore topic; basically another puzzle piece to TES metaphysics. Not just "There's a random artifact, it needs activation by sacrifice of 1 life" (probably the Breton, and then there's an explosion and Gabrielle returns) and that's it. Or maybe even no lore at all.
Do you think they'd bring Darien back just to sacrifice him again? I mean, considering the other parallels to the main quest, it's possible they'll go that route. I would be disappointed if they did that, and then Gabrielle is back, and then once again someone's sacrifice or death really means nothing.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can't either. And he seemed to have pretty grand plans of his own. Must be a necromancer prerequisite.
But only the higher ranks. The others are happy about a bed and a meal.Yeah, I should have thought of that. *sigh* I guess we're just back to the good old standby: it's magic!
They're necromancers. Maybe only people who smell horribly can pass the Wall (in case of daedric beings the sulphur smell might be enough). Don't we have a Breton or so, like from the Wayrest sewers, we could try to send through? Maybe put onto a catapult to shoot him right through the Wall...
Well, wait! Why don't we just try to get over the Wall? There's certainly some spare trebuchet from the Alliance War somewhere that we might use!I think there was. The lore surrounding it seems a bit murky. Then again, it was a corrupted light of Meridia, so no saying how accurate anyone's analysis of it could be.
To me it looks like there's a possible lore mistake somewhere, but who knows, maybe we'll learn more about it in Part 2 that explains it, so everything makes sense again.Do you think they'd bring Darien back just to sacrifice him again? I mean, considering the other parallels to the main quest, it's possible they'll go that route. I would be disappointed if they did that, and then Gabrielle is back, and then once again someone's sacrifice or death really means nothing.
Indeed, I'd also be disappointed. How probable is it? We know in the past few years, the dead always returned (except for very minor side characters no one actually cared for much anyway), differently to the early years of ESO. So what would they do in a sequel to the first year? I really don't know.
But maybe we are looking at it the wrong way. Maybe there's an infinite carrousel of souls; people die, and return because someone else is sacrified, who then returns again in another exchange for someone else, who might return later because... whatever. Maybe this endless rotation of life force propels the rotation of the firmament. Finally, more about the cosmology of Mundus @Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭They're necromancers. Maybe only people who smell horribly can pass the Wall (in case of daedric beings the sulphur smell might be enough). Don't we have a Breton or so, like from the Wayrest sewers, we could try to send through? Maybe put onto a catapult to shoot him right through the Wall...
Well, wait! Why don't we just try to get over the Wall? There's certainly some spare trebuchet from the Alliance War somewhere that we might use!
Maybe we'll build our own catapults and such during the Writhing Wall event. We can experiment with projectiles then.I think there was. The lore surrounding it seems a bit murky. Then again, it was a corrupted light of Meridia, so no saying how accurate anyone's analysis of it could be.
To me it looks like there's a possible lore mistake somewhere, but who knows, maybe we'll learn more about it in Part 2 that explains it, so everything makes sense again.
It's possible. We are going to use the light of Meridia on the wall, I believe. At least, it was mentioned as a plan by Prince Azah.Do you think they'd bring Darien back just to sacrifice him again? I mean, considering the other parallels to the main quest, it's possible they'll go that route. I would be disappointed if they did that, and then Gabrielle is back, and then once again someone's sacrifice or death really means nothing.
Indeed, I'd also be disappointed. How probable is it? We know in the past few years, the dead always returned (except for very minor side characters no one actually cared for much anyway), differently to the early years of ESO. So what would they do in a sequel to the first year? I really don't know.
But maybe we are looking at it the wrong way. Maybe there's an infinite carrousel of souls; people die, and return because someone else is sacrified, who then returns again in another exchange for someone else, who might return later because... whatever. Maybe this endless rotation of life force propels the rotation of the firmament. Finally, more about the cosmology of Mundus
Lol, it's gifts of death all the way down!
I went in game to look through the Solstice lore library for information on Mor Naril. It's really only mentioned in the History of Clan Corelanya books (and when you talk to that ghost in the Corelanya mausoleum). In book 2 we learn that the first member of Clan Corelanya to come across it did so in 1E 726, and at that time it was an abandoned Daedric temple-city. In book 5 we learn that in 1E 2633 Kinlord Istamil took refuge there when his tyranny was opposed by his people, and that Vinutilmo went there to confront him, defeated him (aided by Meridia, Azura, and Nocturnal), and sealed the gates of Mor Naril.
So it was built some time before 1E 726, by unknown folk, and who knows how long it was an active site or how long it had been abandoned by the time Kinheir Iniel found it on Solstice during her failed campaign to conquer the island. And since it's been sealed since 1E 2633, hard to say what power source it might have.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe we'll build our own catapults and such during the Writhing Wall event. We can experiment with projectiles then.
Maybe there are two quest types: Build catapults. Find test subjects.It's possible. We are going to use the light of Meridia on the wall, I believe. At least, it was mentioned as a plan by Prince Azah.
Why do we have to wait for that for so many months? Or are we basically preparing for whatever is supposed to attack us then now?
I think I'd rather travel to Coldharbor, build a reverse anchor, and use it to remove Coldharbor from Nirn again. Now I'm wondering what would happen if we removed both Coldharbor and Nirn. Would it create a Black Hole? Actually I would love to test that now.Lol, it's gifts of death all the way down!
I wouldn't have called the artifact gift of death anyway. It's not easily marketable. Now imagine you want to give one to a friend, like, let's say a Telvanni Magister. For their birthday, for example. Do you think announcing you're giving them the gift of death sounds good? I don't think so. It's rather misleading. Once we copy that artifact and send it into mass production, we have to find a better name.I went in game to look through the Solstice lore library for information on Mor Naril. It's really only mentioned in the History of Clan Corelanya books (and when you talk to that ghost in the Corelanya mausoleum). In book 2 we learn that the first member of Clan Corelanya to come across it did so in 1E 726, and at that time it was an abandoned Daedric temple-city.
It sounds like it isn't Argonian. Might it be actually daedra-built, whatever the daedra were doing there? Who else would have built it, otherwise? I don't really think they want to introduce some new culture. Where should it have come from, and where did it go?@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
Oh, you know, for our forces to arrive.I think I'd rather travel to Coldharbor, build a reverse anchor, and use it to remove Coldharbor from Nirn again. Now I'm wondering what would happen if we removed both Coldharbor and Nirn. Would it create a Black Hole? Actually I would love to test that now.
But didn't we destroy the forge that makes the anchor parts? Anyway, if we went to Coldharbour, we'd also have to deal with Molag Bal again, and this time letting us succeed might not be part of his overall plan.Lol, it's gifts of death all the way down!
I wouldn't have called the artifact gift of death anyway. It's not easily marketable. Now imagine you want to give one to a friend, like, let's say a Telvanni Magister. For their birthday, for example. Do you think announcing you're giving them the gift of death sounds good? I don't think so. It's rather misleading. Once we copy that artifact and send it into mass production, we have to find a better name.
We? Also, you seem a little too focused on Magister Gothren. Are you vying for his place on the council?I went in game to look through the Solstice lore library for information on Mor Naril. It's really only mentioned in the History of Clan Corelanya books (and when you talk to that ghost in the Corelanya mausoleum). In book 2 we learn that the first member of Clan Corelanya to come across it did so in 1E 726, and at that time it was an abandoned Daedric temple-city.
It sounds like it isn't Argonian. Might it be actually daedra-built, whatever the daedra were doing there? Who else would have built it, otherwise? I don't really think they want to introduce some new culture. Where should it have come from, and where did it go?
It could still be Argonian. There might have been a daedra worshipping tribe there in the early part of the first era. They call it a Daedric temple-city, but that doesn't mean it's made of daedric metal (or stone). It could have been an Argonian built temple for the worship of daedra or for daedric practices.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh, you know, for our forces to arrive.
Ah, right. Let's hope the Worm Cult Fleet will not sink all their ships!But didn't we destroy the forge that makes the anchor parts?
I think a Daedric Prince could restore something like that in no time.Anyway, if we went to Coldharbour, we'd also have to deal with Molag Bal again, and this time letting us succeed might not be part of his overall plan.
Then we'll defeat him again. But again not entirely, because that's not possible. Makes me wonder which big bad evil we'll defeat instead. This time, it can't be Mannimarco either. Unless he takes another vacation bound to an altar for a few years so he can be resurrected again, the next time... And then maybe return as a lich then, if he isn't one yet. Maybe he'll even kidnap Vanny again after that! It's all an endless cycle, maybe of 10 year periods.We?
Well, yes, I would need an assistant, of course, and the Bosmer is obviously indisposed right now!Also, you seem a little too focused on Magister Gothren. Are you vying for his place on the council?
What? Why would I do that?It could still be Argonian. There might have been a daedra worshipping tribe there in the early part of the first era. They call it a Daedric temple-city, but that doesn't mean it's made of daedric metal (or stone). It could have been an Argonian built temple for the worship of daedra or for daedric practices.
That would be an exception for their culture. But then again, they gave this island an "Everything is different here" theme anyway.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Anyway, if we went to Coldharbour, we'd also have to deal with Molag Bal again, and this time letting us succeed might not be part of his overall plan.
Then we'll defeat him again. But again not entirely, because that's not possible. Makes me wonder which big bad evil we'll defeat instead. This time, it can't be Mannimarco either. Unless he takes another vacation bound to an altar for a few years so he can be resurrected again, the next time... And then maybe return as a lich then, if he isn't one yet. Maybe he'll even kidnap Vanny again after that! It's all an endless cycle, maybe of 10 year periods.
I have wondered how this all ends, since we can't actually defeat Mannimarco because we already know he survives into the third era. Maybe we lock him in that mountain pass where Vanny eventually confronts him.
What about all your other Bosmer? Conscript one of them! Didn't I make it clear that I'm fully aware that being your assistant leads to no good end, and so won't be participating in such a role?
Why do Telvanni do anything?It could still be Argonian. There might have been a daedra worshipping tribe there in the early part of the first era. They call it a Daedric temple-city, but that doesn't mean it's made of daedric metal (or stone). It could have been an Argonian built temple for the worship of daedra or for daedric practices.
That would be an exception for their culture. But then again, they gave this island an "Everything is different here" theme anyway.
An exception, and also perhaps the reason they aren't still around. The other Argonian tribes on the island might have killed them off; the temple-city was deserted by the time the Corelanya found it. Does make me wonder if it was partially reclaimed by nature at that point.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have wondered how this all ends, since we can't actually defeat Mannimarco because we already know he survives into the third era. Maybe we lock him in that mountain pass where Vanny eventually confronts him.
I don't think that should be on Solstice, though. It is a yet undefined location in lore, but why on a tropical island that no one ever heard of before and that never carried a significant role in Tamriel's history? I mean, yes, we have Mor Naril now, and also a bit of other background lore on the island, but to me it still doesn't feel like a location I'd like to see for such a significant event. I'd rather like it to take place at a location with more history to it.
Now I'm wondering whether Mannimarco's next imprisonment or death might be actually related to Mor Naril somehow? I somehow think the big finale will take place there. For the sole reason of... what else is there even?Didn't I make it clear that I'm fully aware that being your assistant leads to no good end, and so won't be participating in such a role?
Well, that one Bosmer was my assistant many times and he leads a comfortable and happy life overall!Why do Telvanni do anything?
An idiosyncratic mix of curiosity and boredom.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I have wondered how this all ends, since we can't actually defeat Mannimarco because we already know he survives into the third era. Maybe we lock him in that mountain pass where Vanny eventually confronts him.
I don't think that should be on Solstice, though. It is a yet undefined location in lore, but why on a tropical island that no one ever heard of before and that never carried a significant role in Tamriel's history? I mean, yes, we have Mor Naril now, and also a bit of other background lore on the island, but to me it still doesn't feel like a location I'd like to see for such a significant event. I'd rather like it to take place at a location with more history to it.
Now I'm wondering whether Mannimarco's next imprisonment or death might be actually related to Mor Naril somehow? I somehow think the big finale will take place there. For the sole reason of... what else is there even?
I was joking about the mountain pass. It wouldn't make any sense for it to be on Solstice, since it's neither in the north nor snowy. I also some kind of showdown at Mor Naril.
One...out of how many? I'd rather not take my chances.
*Writes that down in journal of notes on Telvanni*0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I was joking about the mountain pass. It wouldn't make any sense for it to be on Solstice, since it's neither in the north nor snowy.
North of the island And if it remains Coldharborized, it will snow there!I also some kind of showdown at Mor Naril.
I mean, in the end we always already know beforehand how the outcome of a chapter story will look like: Threat resolved, baddies dead, exiled or banished (Which is an advantage of several related chapters: It's not that obvious then how one chapter will end, because it's not entirely the ending we see, but there might be more things to come in the following years; or at least a multi part story could be written like that). What might be interesting are the details and the things happening before that. Still I'm wondering whether already mentioning Mor Naril was wise, as everything's hinting on that now for the big showdown - might that diminish the interest in all other locations that might be there?One...out of how many? I'd rather not take my chances.
Many fall, but one remains.
Well, let me say that fatal accidents are a rather rare occurance.*Writes that down in journal of notes on Telvanni*
The Great Mage could learn a lot from us. Well, probably not. He's too moral.
@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
Stop with the logic! I don't want Vanny to die this season!I also expect some kind of showdown at Mor Naril.
I mean, in the end we always already know beforehand how the outcome of a chapter story will look like: Threat resolved, baddies dead, exiled or banished (Which is an advantage of several related chapters: It's not that obvious then how one chapter will end, because it's not entirely the ending we see, but there might be more things to come in the following years; or at least a multi part story could be written like that). What might be interesting are the details and the things happening before that. Still I'm wondering whether already mentioning Mor Naril was wise, as everything's hinting on that now for the big showdown - might that diminish the interest in all other locations that might be there?
It's not mentioned all that much, is it? In two of the five Corelanya books, and then in the conversation with the ghost (and I think they were optional conversation points) and then with Walks if you talk to her after the final quest. Does it come up much more than that? I don't quite remember, because I've been thinking about it a lot.
I don't think just knowing it exists and is a place of power makes everything else less interesting. I really am curious to know how the Stone-Nest tribe is coping with being on the eastern half, and what else has changed over there (are there any animals left, for example?), and how we're going to go about un-melding it. I'm also curious how vast Mor Naril might be. When it's called a temple-city, I expect a significant structure.
I'd rather not be part of any accidents, thank you. I want to keep all my limbs as well as my mental faculties intact.
Learning doesn't necessarily mean practicing. Besides, not all Telvanni are as corrupt...um, creative as you, I'm sure.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stop with the logic! I don't want Vanny to die this season!
Fine. He'll just marry Mannimarco then and they'll move to some cozy place on Summerset and everyone will be happy.It's not mentioned all that much, is it? In two of the five Corelanya books, and then in the conversation with the ghost (and I think they were optional conversation points) and then with Walks if you talk to her after the final quest. Does it come up much more than that? I don't quite remember, because I've been thinking about it a lot.
Nah, but it's somehow presented as that one big mysterious place. I'd be astonished if there was some even more mysterious and important place on that part of the island It's hard to believe there's that much at all, somehow.I don't think just knowing it exists and is a place of power makes everything else less interesting. I really am curious to know how the Stone-Nest tribe is coping with being on the eastern half, and what else has changed over there (are there any animals left, for example?), and how we're going to go about un-melding it.
Oh, I'm curious, too, I'm just wondering how the average person might receive that.I'm also curious how vast Mor Naril might be. When it's called a temple-city, I expect a significant structure.
Hard to say by that one screenshot from the news article, if that's indeed Mor Naril. That might be a view of some court-like structure, but now many buildings are surrounding it...?
Generally, I hope it's at least bigger than the location now known as the Tainted Leel. Then again, if it's on the East side of the island, there is a restriction in terms of space. If looking closely, one can see the outlines of the whole island and the other side of the map already:
It looks rather mountainous. Actually it gives the impression that there are only two bigger spaces: On the very North-East (although there seems to be a lake in the middle) and then a bit farther South.
The "spots" where we can't see anything might be conveniently placed over any suspicious existing structure At least I find it interesting that there's only parts of the very East obscured while regions closer to the Wall are not. Maybe because there's not much, or at least not much that might be too important for the upcoming story.
I also see there seems to be some kind of small extra island on the Eastern coast. We'll see what's up with that.I'd rather not be part of any accidents, thank you. I want to keep all my limbs as well as my mental faculties intact.
Well, the latter might be a little difficult when regularly interacting with me.Learning doesn't necessarily mean practicing.
I think Vanny would be appalled nonetheless.Besides, not all Telvanni are as corrupt...um, creative as you, I'm sure.
Indeed. We also have guards, alchemy store owners and potion sellers, normal merchants, doctors/healers, and all that, after all. Basically commoners. Strangely, people often seem to forget that. If as a House we don't want to rely on anyone else, our whole infrastructure must be kept as autarkic as possible.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭
Good!I'm also curious how vast Mor Naril might be. When it's called a temple-city, I expect a significant structure.
Hard to say by that one screenshot from the news article, if that's indeed Mor Naril. That might be a view of some court-like structure, but now many buildings are surrounding it...?
We'll probably find it's mostly in ruins, covered over by island flora. Unless the reverse planemeld has covered it over in Coldharbour glowstalks.Generally, I hope it's at least bigger than the location now known as the Tainted Leel. Then again, if it's on the East side of the island, there is a restriction in terms of space. If looking closely, one can see the outlines of the whole island and the other side of the map already:
It looks rather mountainous. Actually it gives the impression that there are only two bigger spaces: On the very North-East (although there seems to be a lake in the middle) and then a bit farther South.
The "spots" where we can't see anything might be conveniently placed over any suspicious existing structure At least I find it interesting that there's only parts of the very East obscured while regions closer to the Wall are not. Maybe because there's not much, or at least not much that might be too important for the upcoming story.
I also see there seems to be some kind of small extra island on the Eastern coast. We'll see what's up with that.
The middle of the island is fairly mountainous, and there seems to be only a few passes that are navigable; that might mean the eastern half is more constricted in terms of terrain. I still want to know why sailing to the eastern half isn't an option. Is there no deep water port over there? With the way the map "fog" blurs, it's hard to say where the island ends, but it probably isn't really much larger than the western half.
Yes, I've come to realize that!
Oh, probably. He's got fairly strict views, after all.Besides, not all Telvanni are as corrupt...um, creative as you, I'm sure.
Indeed. We also have guards, alchemy store owners and potion sellers, normal merchants, doctors/healers, and all that, after all. Basically commoners. Strangely, people often seem to forget that. If as a House we don't want to rely on anyone else, our whole infrastructure must be kept as autarkic as possible.
That's a very good point. I tend to think of House Telvanni as being comprised solely of ambitious, back-stabbing, power-mad wizards. Spent too much time in Sadrith Mora, I suppose.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We'll probably find it's mostly in ruins, covered over by island flora. Unless the reverse planemeld has covered it over in Coldharbour glowstalks.
I hope for glowstalks and that those glowstalks have a certain drop chance for glowstalk furnishings That would be ideal! Then I could place a lot of glowstalks around Mannimarco's sarcophagus that I also desperately need.The middle of the island is fairly mountainous, and there seems to be only a few passes that are navigable; that might mean the eastern half is more constricted in terms of terrain. I still want to know why sailing to the eastern half isn't an option. Is there no deep water port over there? With the way the map "fog" blurs, it's hard to say where the island ends, but it probably isn't really much larger than the western half.
When I download the picture and zoom in, I can see the outlines quite well:
Green hachured regions look like muddy/swampy low-water shores with many small islets or sand banks or something like that.
And indeed there are only 2 larger spots that don't seem to be swampy or mountainous. Mor Naril must be at one of those two locations. Unless maybe it's below ground or in some cave or so?That's a very good point. I tend to think of House Telvanni as being comprised solely of ambitious, back-stabbing, power-mad wizards. Spent too much time in Sadrith Mora, I suppose.
Not even I am a power-mad wizard @Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭The middle of the island is fairly mountainous, and there seems to be only a few passes that are navigable; that might mean the eastern half is more constricted in terms of terrain. I still want to know why sailing to the eastern half isn't an option. Is there no deep water port over there? With the way the map "fog" blurs, it's hard to say where the island ends, but it probably isn't really much larger than the western half.
When I download the picture and zoom in, I can see the outlines quite well:
Green hachured regions look like muddy/swampy low-water shores with many small islets or sand banks or something like that.
And indeed there are only 2 larger spots that don't seem to be swampy or mountainous. Mor Naril must be at one of those two locations. Unless maybe it's below ground or in some cave or so?
Ok, lowland swampy shores I could see not being ship approachable. But if they put what has been described as a temple-city underground or in a cave, I will be disappointed.
Just a regular mad wizard it is, then! 0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok, lowland swampy shores I could see not being ship approachable. But if they put what has been described as a temple-city underground or in a cave, I will be disappointed.
I'm wondering whether that side of the map might be mostly jungle, except for some Stone Nest settlements? If there's possibly no way to approach that side by ship, all travellers would have to cross those narrow mountain passes. I can see Stone Nest Argonians doing that if they need something from a merchant in one of the cities on the Western side, but would the average city or town dweller from that side see a reason to travel East? It did sound in dialogues like most people don't really have a clue how it even looks like behind the mountain range, even before the Wall appeared. Then again, quite a lot didn't really seem to care for the Wall and the threat it poses now either.
I think if the cave would be as huge as Blackreach, I'd be okay with it being the location of a temple city But that would be rather unexpected and not entirely plausible at this location.
If I look at the map again, I guess the small island on the right might be the location of another dungeon reached by boat, just like the Tainted Leel.Just a regular mad wizard it is, then!
I'm more sane than some individuals deeming themselves normal @Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Ok, lowland swampy shores I could see not being ship approachable. But if they put what has been described as a temple-city underground or in a cave, I will be disappointed.
I'm wondering whether that side of the map might be mostly jungle, except for some Stone Nest settlements? If there's possibly no way to approach that side by ship, all travellers would have to cross those narrow mountain passes. I can see Stone Nest Argonians doing that if they need something from a merchant in one of the cities on the Western side, but would the average city or town dweller from that side see a reason to travel East? It did sound in dialogues like most people don't really have a clue how it even looks like behind the mountain range, even before the Wall appeared. Then again, quite a lot didn't really seem to care for the Wall and the threat it poses now either.
I think if the cave would be as huge as Blackreach, I'd be okay with it being the location of a temple city But that would be rather unexpected and not entirely plausible at this location.
If I look at the map again, I guess the small island on the right might be the location of another dungeon reached by boat, just like the Tainted Leel.
The geographically isolated Argonian tribe could be interesting to explore. It also might not be settled by anyone else because of the terms of the treaty the Altmer came to with the Argonians (I don't remember the details of the treaty, just that it exists.) There also is that one Argonian village that got cut in half by the wall, so that might have been a connection point between east and west.
I guess there will probably be three delves and three world bosses on that side, too, so having one of the delves be on that little island would make sense. Do you think there will be another public dungeon? Part of Mor Naril, perhaps, if it's big enough to support a public dungeon and story quests.
I think everyone living in Tamriel must be a little insane. How could they not be, with the magnitude of strife and just plain strange goings-on that happen?0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The geographically isolated Argonian tribe could be interesting to explore. It also might not be settled by anyone else because of the terms of the treaty the Altmer came to with the Argonians (I don't remember the details of the treaty, just that it exists.) There also is that one Argonian village that got cut in half by the wall, so that might have been a connection point between east and west.
Looking at the map, I'm wondering whether there can even be much more than 2 cities, one being Mor Naril and the other one that hometown of that one Stone Nest Argonian we can talk to in Sunport. Well, maybe another tiny fishing village somewhere at the coast, if they can make up a worthwhile story for that.I guess there will probably be three delves and three world bosses on that side, too, so having one of the delves be on that little island would make sense. Do you think there will be another public dungeon? Part of Mor Naril, perhaps, if it's big enough to support a public dungeon and story quests.
I expect the number to be the same as on the Western side of the island, so another public dungeon. Part of Mor Naril might be possible, or part of that other Argonian city maybe? We already have a public dungeon inside a city, after all, in Windhelm.I think everyone living in Tamriel must be a little insane. How could they not be, with the magnitude of strife and just plain strange goings-on that happen?
The sanest might be temple priests who just ponder over their religious writings all day and rarely go outside. Unfortunately, daedra might find them especially fun to corrupt because of that.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭The geographically isolated Argonian tribe could be interesting to explore. It also might not be settled by anyone else because of the terms of the treaty the Altmer came to with the Argonians (I don't remember the details of the treaty, just that it exists.) There also is that one Argonian village that got cut in half by the wall, so that might have been a connection point between east and west.
Looking at the map, I'm wondering whether there can even be much more than 2 cities, one being Mor Naril and the other one that hometown of that one Stone Nest Argonian we can talk to in Sunport. Well, maybe another tiny fishing village somewhere at the coast, if they can make up a worthwhile story for that.
It might be more caves than anything else over there. The western half doesn't have a lot of settlements--the Nord place and the Argonian village, and then of course Sunport. Doubtful any of the other Daedric princes will have a presence on the eastern side like Sanguine does on the western, but there might be ruins other than Mor Naril. A fishing village would make sense, but I wonder what state it would be in by this time.I guess there will probably be three delves and three world bosses on that side, too, so having one of the delves be on that little island would make sense. Do you think there will be another public dungeon? Part of Mor Naril, perhaps, if it's big enough to support a public dungeon and story quests.
I expect the number to be the same as on the Western side of the island, so another public dungeon. Part of Mor Naril might be possible, or part of that other Argonian city maybe? We already have a public dungeon inside a city, after all, in Windhelm.
Wouldn't it be crazy if they mixed it up a bit, and maybe put, oh, I don't know, four delves instead of three, and skipped the public dungeon. Or, if they need another public dungeon for skill point reasons, maybe cut out a world boss. Why does it always have to be the same? Six delves, six bosses, two public dungeons; the only difference this time is we have to wait for half of them.
Once it does open up, do you think the daily quest givers in Sunport will add those delves and bosses to their rotation, or do you think they'll have another hub on the western side with separate dailies?I think everyone living in Tamriel must be a little insane. How could they not be, with the magnitude of strife and just plain strange goings-on that happen?
The sanest might be temple priests who just ponder over their religious writings all day and rarely go outside. Unfortunately, daedra might find them especially fun to corrupt because of that.
I hadn't thought daedra made much of a distinction when it came to corrupting/torturing humans. Figured they thought one human was as good as another.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It might be more caves than anything else over there. The western half doesn't have a lot of settlements--the Nord place and the Argonian village, and then of course Sunport.
That's true, but Sanguine's Carnival also took quite a lot of space on the map, and also the Meridian temple.Doubtful any of the other Daedric princes will have a presence on the eastern side like Sanguine does on the western, but there might be ruins other than Mor Naril.
Well, who knows. Maybe they think they'd like to represent all of Solstice's commonly venerated deities somehow to further emphasize how much variety there is?A fishing village would make sense, but I wonder what state it would be in by this time.
Plundered and replaced by the new fishystick factory of Admiral Wormblood.Wouldn't it be crazy if they mixed it up a bit, and maybe put, oh, I don't know, four delves instead of three, and skipped the public dungeon. Or, if they need another public dungeon for skill point reasons, maybe cut out a world boss. Why does it always have to be the same? Six delves, six bosses, two public dungeons; the only difference this time is we have to wait for half of them.
I honestly never understood that. I've also often been astonished by one argumentation I came across in this forum every now and then over the years: that there shouldn't be new zones because the principle with the same number of world bosses, delves and dungeons would be boring. Well, for me, a zone is, first of all, a new plot of land one could do whatever with! It's a space to create locations and put quests into it. I never understood why it was supposed to be so formulaic - but still, that seems to be the way it's planned.Once it does open up, do you think the daily quest givers in Sunport will add those delves and bosses to their rotation, or do you think they'll have another hub on the western side with separate dailies?
That's a good question. It's generally a good question whether there will be another hub city at all. I think this time possibly not, because it won't be seperate zones with a long load time inbetween, if I'm not wrong? Then they'd think that one city for daily quests and crafting is enough.I hadn't thought daedra made much of a distinction when it came to corrupting/torturing humans. Figured they thought one human was as good as another.
Depends on whether they find corrupting mortals fun or not. Although fun might not be the right term for a daedric being; it's probably more about whether that behavior lies in their nature or not.
Ah yes, here's a picture of Daggerfall Mannimarco standing in some tiny supply closet or something:
I'd say he has hands, and a face. So we now know how Wormblood looks like @Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Doubtful any of the other Daedric princes will have a presence on the eastern side like Sanguine does on the western, but there might be ruins other than Mor Naril.
Well, who knows. Maybe they think they'd like to represent all of Solstice's commonly venerated deities somehow to further emphasize how much variety there is?
I guess it depends on how well whoever is over there could cope with the Writhing Wall cutting them off, the influx of Worm Cultists, and the terrain changing to Coldharbour. If you were a worshipper of Clavicus Vile (like that one npc in Sunport) you might find it hard to go on like normal under such circumstances. Seems like the Worm Cultists might try to wipe you out or convert you.
Well, I was thinking the usual fish might have died off from the Coldharbour pollution or the weather changes, but a foul fish stick factory would be equally bad.Wouldn't it be crazy if they mixed it up a bit, and maybe put, oh, I don't know, four delves instead of three, and skipped the public dungeon. Or, if they need another public dungeon for skill point reasons, maybe cut out a world boss. Why does it always have to be the same? Six delves, six bosses, two public dungeons; the only difference this time is we have to wait for half of them.
I honestly never understood that. I've also often been astonished by one argumentation I came across in this forum every now and then over the years: that there shouldn't be new zones because the principle with the same number of world bosses, delves and dungeons would be boring. Well, for me, a zone is, first of all, a new plot of land one could do whatever with! It's a space to create locations and put quests into it. I never understood why it was supposed to be so formulaic - but still, that seems to be the way it's planned.
For me, world bosses just get in the way of the zone story and landscape, especially since their purpose has been distilled down to repeatable quests and achievements. Oh well, plenty of people like them. As for the formula, I suppose it's easier/more efficient to have that to fall back on when you are having to get content out in regular increments--like a new chapter every year. If you know you have to fit in six delves, six world bosses, and two public dungeons regardless of what else goes in, then some planning time is saved. But really, who knows how it will go in future.Once it does open up, do you think the daily quest givers in Sunport will add those delves and bosses to their rotation, or do you think they'll have another hub on the western side with separate dailies?
That's a good question. It's generally a good question whether there will be another hub city at all. I think this time possibly not, because it won't be seperate zones with a long load time inbetween, if I'm not wrong? Then they'd think that one city for daily quests and crafting is enough.
I assumed it would be one full zone by the time the wall comes down. That, in addition to story reasons why another hub on the other side wouldn't make a lot of sense, makes me think the new delves and bosses will added to the daily quest givers in Sunport. But I could also see the Stirk Fellowship establishing a base just past the Wall, after we first breach it, and quest givers setting up there. Though, remembering how that one daily quest guy already knew all about the reverse planemeld, it's possible those npcs are already set up with the dialogue for the new delves and bosses.Ah yes, here's a picture of Daggerfall Mannimarco standing in some tiny supply closet or something:
I'd say he has hands, and a face. So we now know how Wormblood looks like
Lol, that's quite the portrait of a lich! Every time I look back at old computer game graphics, I marvel at the work our brains must have done to make them coherent. I know that at the time I thought they looked fine (good, even!) but now I wonder how much I was filling in with my imagination. I mean, I guess those are hands, but they really just look like blobs of lighter color.0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess it depends on how well whoever is over there could cope with the Writhing Wall cutting them off, the influx of Worm Cultists, and the terrain changing to Coldharbour. If you were a worshipper of Clavicus Vile (like that one npc in Sunport) you might find it hard to go on like normal under such circumstances. Seems like the Worm Cultists might try to wipe you out or convert you.
Now imagine what stories could have been told if the island had almost a dozen of different (daedric and non-daedric) cults actually messing with each other, with sabotage, conversion attempts and similar, instead of a general stance of "everyone's tolerant" (except for some mild conflict in that quest with those Dibella worshippers; I read that not even the antagonist at Sanguine's Carnival is supposed to be from a different cult, but she just wanted to make the whole thing about herself - more some kind of ego problem instead of any cultic or religious topic).Well, I was thinking the usual fish might have died off from the Coldharbour pollution or the weather changes, but a foul fish stick factory would be equally bad.
Normally, one would think that, but maybe the Coldharborization just mutated them.For me, world bosses just get in the way of the zone story and landscape, especially since their purpose has been distilled down to repeatable quests and achievements.
I don't mind them, just do them once for completion, or maybe for the dailies, if I go for the achievement. I feel a bit sorry for the players who join later, though, as many world bosses are very annoying to solo, and outside of events (and shortly after a zone's release) you rarely find people fighting them anymore (except for a few that drop something people are interested in), so you'd have to do it alone if you want to clear the map.Lol, that's quite the portrait of a lich! Every time I look back at old computer game graphics, I marvel at the work our brains must have done to make them coherent. I know that at the time I thought they looked fine (good, even!) but now I wonder how much I was filling in with my imagination. I mean, I guess those are hands, but they really just look like blobs of lighter color.
There's a slightly lighter colored pixel in the middle of the face, which hints at a nose. Skeletons have no nose. Mystery solved And he has glowy eyes. Also, a lich looked like this in Daggerfall, and there I see no semblance:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:DF-creature-Karolis.png@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭I guess it depends on how well whoever is over there could cope with the Writhing Wall cutting them off, the influx of Worm Cultists, and the terrain changing to Coldharbour. If you were a worshipper of Clavicus Vile (like that one npc in Sunport) you might find it hard to go on like normal under such circumstances. Seems like the Worm Cultists might try to wipe you out or convert you.
Now imagine what stories could have been told if the island had almost a dozen of different (daedric and non-daedric) cults actually messing with each other, with sabotage, conversion attempts and similar, instead of a general stance of "everyone's tolerant" (except for some mild conflict in that quest with those Dibella worshippers; I read that not even the antagonist at Sanguine's Carnival is supposed to be from a different cult, but she just wanted to make the whole thing about herself - more some kind of ego problem instead of any cultic or religious topic).
Where'd you read that about the Lady at the Sanguine Carnival? I thought there wasn't anything about her or her motivations, which is one reason the quest kind of fell flat for me.
On the whole, I find the overall tolerance level of Sunport out of place in ESO. I can understand the Corelanya Altmer making peace with the Argonians and, over time, living peaceably with them, but the "every cult is welcome" aspect of it seems a bit strange, given that they have their own religion of the Three Queens. Then again, the Clan changed religious alliances so much over their history, maybe they have a general stance of it doesn't really matter.
That would be a pretty fast mutation, but I guess when magic is involved, anything's possible.Lol, that's quite the portrait of a lich! Every time I look back at old computer game graphics, I marvel at the work our brains must have done to make them coherent. I know that at the time I thought they looked fine (good, even!) but now I wonder how much I was filling in with my imagination. I mean, I guess those are hands, but they really just look like blobs of lighter color.
There's a slightly lighter colored pixel in the middle of the face, which hints at a nose. Skeletons have no nose. Mystery solved And he has glowy eyes. Also, a lich looked like this in Daggerfall, and there I see no semblance:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:DF-creature-Karolis.png
Lol, a skeleton with a smile! Ok, so Mannimarco isn't a lich there. Or at least not a skeletal lich. What condition his face and body might be in is anyone's guess, since you refused to disrobe him to find out.
I'm curious: what does a skeleton need with a cape and shoulder pads? The staff I can understand--power and so forth. An amulet or other jewelry would make sense, because those are often magical. But a cape and shoulder pads? If you go to the trouble of wearing a cape and shoulder pads, why not toss on some boots, too? Or gloves? Or a tunic?0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Where'd you read that about the Lady at the Sanguine Carnival? I thought there wasn't anything about her or her motivations, which is one reason the quest kind of fell flat for me.
UESP states it like that, upon which I looked a bit into her dialogue and this leaflet:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:A_Grand_Time_Awaits!
I think it's interpretable as that. She has renamed the fair, she calls it hers, the makes statements such as "There's no better place to indulge, after all, than with the Lady of Riot." - It's still possible she's secretly an agent/champion of another Daedric Prince (The thing she did with fulfilling people's wishes, but in a badly interpreted way sounded so much like Clavicus Vile), but I'm quite sure that if this was the case, we would have clearly learned this at the end of the quest (or at some later point at least, but I think we can exclude this possibility because we'll most probably never hear of her again). So this indeed might have just been some ego cult thing. In any way, it felt random, strangely void of lore, and to me not really satisfying compared to what could have been done with that story.On the whole, I find the overall tolerance level of Sunport out of place in ESO. I can understand the Corelanya Altmer making peace with the Argonians and, over time, living peaceably with them, but the "every cult is welcome" aspect of it seems a bit strange, given that they have their own religion of the Three Queens. Then again, the Clan changed religious alliances so much over their history, maybe they have a general stance of it doesn't really matter.
Yes, it felt constructed to me, and also like it was written more from a real world idealistic standpoint than under consideration of what would fit for the fictional world of Tamriel (which I think should be the actual focus when writing fiction about a fantasy world) with all its conflicts and strife. The strangest thing to me was just cluttering all kinds of shrines into the Sunport chapel, randomly, without any sorting.Lol, a skeleton with a smile! Ok, so Mannimarco isn't a lich there. Or at least not a skeletal lich. What condition his face and body might be in is anyone's guess, since you refused to disrobe him to find out.
Okay, fine. I'll disrobe the King of Worms the next time! Let's hope the result will be more interesting than just an elderly Altmer in his underwear.I'm curious: what does a skeleton need with a cape and shoulder pads? The staff I can understand--power and so forth. An amulet or other jewelry would make sense, because those are often magical. But a cape and shoulder pads? If you go to the trouble of wearing a cape and shoulder pads, why not toss on some boots, too? Or gloves? Or a tunic?
Well, I don't know, I've never been a skeleton yet!@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Where'd you read that about the Lady at the Sanguine Carnival? I thought there wasn't anything about her or her motivations, which is one reason the quest kind of fell flat for me.
UESP states it like that, upon which I looked a bit into her dialogue and this leaflet:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:A_Grand_Time_Awaits!
I think it's interpretable as that. She has renamed the fair, she calls it hers, the makes statements such as "There's no better place to indulge, after all, than with the Lady of Riot." - It's still possible she's secretly an agent/champion of another Daedric Prince (The thing she did with fulfilling people's wishes, but in a badly interpreted way sounded so much like Clavicus Vile), but I'm quite sure that if this was the case, we would have clearly learned this at the end of the quest (or at some later point at least, but I think we can exclude this possibility because we'll most probably never hear of her again). So this indeed might have just been some ego cult thing. In any way, it felt random, strangely void of lore, and to me not really satisfying compared to what could have been done with that story.
Yeah, her "corrupt a wish" modus operandi definitely seemed more like Clavicus Vile than Sanguine. I don't remember that leaflet. Well, I noticed when looking through my Eidetic Memory that I don't have all the Solstice writings, so I'll have to go hunting for the missing pages.On the whole, I find the overall tolerance level of Sunport out of place in ESO. I can understand the Corelanya Altmer making peace with the Argonians and, over time, living peaceably with them, but the "every cult is welcome" aspect of it seems a bit strange, given that they have their own religion of the Three Queens. Then again, the Clan changed religious alliances so much over their history, maybe they have a general stance of it doesn't really matter.
Yes, it felt constructed to me, and also like it was written more from a real world idealistic standpoint than under consideration of what would fit for the fictional world of Tamriel (which I think should be the actual focus when writing fiction about a fantasy world) with all its conflicts and strife. The strangest thing to me was just cluttering all kinds of shrines into the Sunport chapel, randomly, without any sorting.
Well, the shrines to the three queens are grouped together at the front, aren't they? So, given pride of place, essentially. Still, I would have expected any other shrines to be tucked away in their own special places of worship, not sharing the same grand chapel with the Three Queens.Lol, a skeleton with a smile! Ok, so Mannimarco isn't a lich there. Or at least not a skeletal lich. What condition his face and body might be in is anyone's guess, since you refused to disrobe him to find out.
Okay, fine. I'll disrobe the King of Worms the next time! Let's hope the result will be more interesting than just an elderly Altmer in his underwear.
What would you consider "more interesting"? Half-skeleton, half-not? A particular stage of putrefaction?I'm curious: what does a skeleton need with a cape and shoulder pads? The staff I can understand--power and so forth. An amulet or other jewelry would make sense, because those are often magical. But a cape and shoulder pads? If you go to the trouble of wearing a cape and shoulder pads, why not toss on some boots, too? Or gloves? Or a tunic?
Well, I don't know, I've never been a skeleton yet!
Don't you know anyone who has? Can't they answer?0 -
Syldras✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, her "corrupt a wish" modus operandi definitely seemed more like Clavicus Vile than Sanguine. I don't remember that leaflet. Well, I noticed when looking through my Eidetic Memory that I don't have all the Solstice writings, so I'll have to go hunting for the missing pages.
In any way I find it a pity that the story's conclusion was not more rooted in lore, especially since that would have fit very well - I actually fully expected the whole thing to end with Clavicus Vile revealing himself to us, or following the Lady to some cave somewhere and then finding a shrine there. The way she was treating the visitors of the fair seemed too peculiar, it just leads to the question: Why? And it's not really plausibly explained by that "she wanted to lead the fair her way" ending.Well, the shrines to the three queens are grouped together at the front, aren't they? So, given pride of place, essentially. Still, I would have expected any other shrines to be tucked away in their own special places of worship, not sharing the same grand chapel with the Three Queens.
Well, on the main altar you have (from left to right) a medium-sized shrine of Dibella, a tiny statuette of Nocturnal, a huge symbol of Azura, a tiny statue of Meridia, and then for some reason a medium-sized Zenithar shrine. To me that's a rather strange arrangement: Why are the Dibella and the Zenithar shrine much bigger than the Meridia and the Nocturnal shrines (and didn't the Dibellans complain about that Dibella was not worshipped there?), and why such a focus on Azura when the Cathedral is designated for all Three Queens?
And then you have all the other shrines of the Divines on the left and right, all the medium-sized type we also know from the average Cyrodiilian temple. On the left it's Akatosh, Arkay, Julianos. On the right Kynareth, Mara, Stendarr.
Or, in total, it just all looks like the average cathedral to the Divines (maybe with a focus on Zenithar and Dibella, so their shrines are on the central dais), just that someone also crammed a big Azura symbol and two tiny statuettes of another two Daedric Princes in.
I would have prefered something more unique, something that shows that this is not the average Cyrodiilic chapel, but that Daedric Princes are venerated here. If in history the specific Princes changed, several times even, it would have been interesting to also see that reflected in the place, like having murals to the other Princes that were obviously somehow repurposed by now, or that faded over time because they were not renewed anymore.What would you consider "more interesting"? Half-skeleton, half-not? A particular stage of putrefaction?
Well, I think almost everything would be more interesting than just an Altmer grandpa in undies, no? At least during a mysterious powerful lich reveal. Although I do fully believe by now that there's not more to it.Don't you know anyone who has? Can't they answer?
Nah, I rarely socialize with skeletons.@Syldras | PC | EU
The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
Soris Rethandus, a Sleeper not yet awake0 -
metheglyn✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, her "corrupt a wish" modus operandi definitely seemed more like Clavicus Vile than Sanguine. I don't remember that leaflet. Well, I noticed when looking through my Eidetic Memory that I don't have all the Solstice writings, so I'll have to go hunting for the missing pages.
In any way I find it a pity that the story's conclusion was not more rooted in lore, especially since that would have fit very well - I actually fully expected the whole thing to end with Clavicus Vile revealing himself to us, or following the Lady to some cave somewhere and then finding a shrine there. The way she was treating the visitors of the fair seemed too peculiar, it just leads to the question: Why? And it's not really plausibly explained by that "she wanted to lead the fair her way" ending.
She wanted to lead the fair her way, but does she really say why? Or what about Sanguine's way she disagreed with? Maybe it could have worked if they'd delved more into the power struggle or some behind the scenes bickering that goes on among the powerful daedra in Sanguine's realm. But instead all we got was a coy goat and a carboard antagonist.Well, the shrines to the three queens are grouped together at the front, aren't they? So, given pride of place, essentially. Still, I would have expected any other shrines to be tucked away in their own special places of worship, not sharing the same grand chapel with the Three Queens.
Well, on the main altar you have (from left to right) a medium-sized shrine of Dibella, a tiny statuette of Nocturnal, a huge symbol of Azura, a tiny statue of Meridia, and then for some reason a medium-sized Zenithar shrine. To me that's a rather strange arrangement: Why are the Dibella and the Zenithar shrine much bigger than the Meridia and the Nocturnal shrines (and didn't the Dibellans complain about that Dibella was not worshipped there?), and why such a focus on Azura when the Cathedral is designated for all Three Queens?
And then you have all the other shrines of the Divines on the left and right, all the medium-sized type we also know from the average Cyrodiilian temple. On the left it's Akatosh, Arkay, Julianos. On the right Kynareth, Mara, Stendarr.
Or, in total, it just all looks like the average cathedral to the Divines (maybe with a focus on Zenithar and Dibella, so their shrines are on the central dais), just that someone also crammed a big Azura symbol and two tiny statuettes of another two Daedric Princes in.
I would have prefered something more unique, something that shows that this is not the average Cyrodiilic chapel, but that Daedric Princes are venerated here. If in history the specific Princes changed, several times even, it would have been interesting to also see that reflected in the place, like having murals to the other Princes that were obviously somehow repurposed by now, or that faded over time because they were not renewed anymore.
Doesn't really seem like all that much thought was put into it, then. I didn't realize Dibella and Zenithar were up there with the Three Queens. I thought the Dibella cultists said they had a small shrine in the city, but to me that seemed like something they had set up themselves, not something that was part of the main chapel.
Maybe Azura has the largest shrine because she's been part of their worship practices the longest? Or she's somehow the most important?
Considering the island's history, along with that of Clan Corelanya, it really doesn't make sense to have such a standard chapel in Sunport. I could see that they wouldn't necessarily enforce their religious views on everyone, having experienced religious intolerance in their history, but to let everyone else's deities have equal status in their chapel?What would you consider "more interesting"? Half-skeleton, half-not? A particular stage of putrefaction?
Well, I think almost everything would be more interesting than just an Altmer grandpa in undies, no? At least during a mysterious powerful lich reveal. Although I do fully believe by now that there's not more to it.
Poor Mannimarco, destined to disappoint!
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