lol, I’m sure some enterprising player will stand on the other plate for enough gold

Gentle reminder that sentiments regarding group play vs solo play are all off topic. This thread specifically criticizes mechanics that add no meaningful engagement and function solely to exclude or hinder progress when engaging the content with the wrong number of players.

In this case, there is no reward or incentive for having enough players to stand on the plates. It just lets them into the dungeon, which they would have been able to do anyway without the plates. The only players affected are the ones punished by it, producing a net negative experience.

Please refer to the initial post and review the discourse.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

TBH if they want to go this route just make queueing the only way to enter dungeons, this way with encounter design they'll also know they have 4 human players at all times meaning they can forgo this type of inorganic party restriction.

That would be rather inconvenient even for 4 player groups as the fastest non-addon way of resetting an instance for trifectas is porting in and out.

This just seems like a big nothing burger of a complaint. Nothing is really stopping you from just grabbing a random stranger, friend or guildie and say:

"Hey step on this pad so I can get into this dungeon. You can leave right after."

This is no different than the needing all twelve players in Atherien Archive on pads or else you can't go through. I guess sorry that solo players cannot go inside 4-man dungeons?

Sallymen wrote: »

This just seems like a big nothing burger of a complaint. Nothing is really stopping you from just grabbing a random stranger, friend or guildie and say:

"Hey step on this pad so I can get into this dungeon. You can leave right after."

This is no different than the needing all twelve players in Atherien Archive on pads or else you can't go through. I guess sorry that solo players cannot go inside 4-man dungeons?

You've never been annoyed when one of the players decides to leave the AA and make the rest of the group either abandon or waste time waiting for a replacement? Or when you have to wait for the team to be full to start the trial which at this point does not require 12 people to kill all the stuff in there (at least on normal).

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Sallymen wrote: »

This just seems like a big nothing burger of a complaint. Nothing is really stopping you from just grabbing a random stranger, friend or guildie and say:

"Hey step on this pad so I can get into this dungeon. You can leave right after."

This is no different than the needing all twelve players in Atherien Archive on pads or else you can't go through. I guess sorry that solo players cannot go inside 4-man dungeons?

You've never been annoyed when one of the players decides to leave the AA and make the rest of the group either abandon or waste time waiting for a replacement? Or when you have to wait for the team to be full to start the trial which at this point does not require 12 people to kill all the stuff in there (at least on normal).

Out of the 10 years I have played this game, I literally have not had this issue. Sure I had a couple people left during an vet AA Run but it was super easy to grab a pug and continue. I seriously do not understand why people are up at arms about this when this is like the LEAST egregious thing ZoS decided to do for a dungeon.

Sallymen wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Sallymen wrote: »

This just seems like a big nothing burger of a complaint. Nothing is really stopping you from just grabbing a random stranger, friend or guildie and say:

"Hey step on this pad so I can get into this dungeon. You can leave right after."

This is no different than the needing all twelve players in Atherien Archive on pads or else you can't go through. I guess sorry that solo players cannot go inside 4-man dungeons?

You've never been annoyed when one of the players decides to leave the AA and make the rest of the group either abandon or waste time waiting for a replacement? Or when you have to wait for the team to be full to start the trial which at this point does not require 12 people to kill all the stuff in there (at least on normal).

Out of the 10 years I have played this game, I literally have not had this issue. Sure I had a couple people left during an vet AA Run but it was super easy to grab a pug and continue. I seriously do not understand why people are up at arms about this when this is like the LEAST egregious thing ZoS decided to do for a dungeon.

Literally demonstrating exactly what I've been saying this whole thread about the net negative experience.

You got lucky a few times with quick pick-ups. A lot of us haven't. We're happy it hasn't affected you, but everyone else that's experienced these mechanics in their hindering capacity have only had a bad time.

Therefore, mechanics such as this only produce a bad time and contribute nothing engaging or enjoyable to the dungeon / trial.

The reward or incentive for a group mechanic in a dungeon or trial should NOT just be participating in the dungeon or trial. We all want to do that anyway. It's content.

What's being criticized hasn't affected you personally. That isn't a good reason to lobby against addressing it. It'll be the same for you whether or not it gets resolved.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

TBH if they want to go this route just make queueing the only way to enter dungeons, this way with encounter design they'll also know they have 4 human players at all times meaning they can forgo this type of inorganic party restriction.

That would be rather inconvenient even for 4 player groups as the fastest non-addon way of resetting an instance for trifectas is porting in and out.

Disband, reinvite all, and re-queue from the menu also works instead of porting. Usually what I do when forming temp groups when farming.

But you're referencing Trifectas, this is about Dungeons, not Trials.

Edit: D'oh, they both have them

I know it works. It’s slow. The fastest way is using Lilith’s Group Manager to disband and reinvite everyone instantly. Second fastest is porting out and changing vet -> norm -> vet then porting in. Third fastest (which is slow) is kicking people, disbanding, reinviting, and requeueing. It pains me every time someone goes with that method, I’d say its at least 2 or 3x slower than the second fastest method (the one I use).

Yes… most DLC dungeons have trifectas… why would I mention 4-player groups when talking about a trial?

Last night I needed to solo Lep Seclusa (normal) for a screenshot I needed (I might add this was on my Oakensoul non-Subclassed pet sorcerer I use for IA) and it was so fun! I had done it only once before, but at some point, I’m going to have to run it with groups for the skill style locked behind vet achievements, I’m NOT looking forward to that level of difficulty! But I love challenging myself with dungeons on normal. That’s why I’ve always wished they would not have these types of mechanics blocking the way. If the bosses are just too hard for me to get past, that’s one thing, and I could always try to improve my build and try again for the fun of it, or group up.

And sometimes I want to solo dungeons for my Stickerbook, and a lot of times my playtime gets interrupted for various real world reasons, and I would hate to be in a group when that happens and inconvenience them by having to leave suddenly. That’s another big reason I want to try to solo normal dungeons. With me, it’s always about not wanting to inconvenience other players, not worrying about inconveniencing myself. There have been times when I’ve been running a dungeon with a group and my spouse wants me to stop playing and do something, and I always reply, “But I’m doing a group activity!” and this doesn’t make them at all happy so I get to suffer later. 😂

scrappy1342 wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

TBH if they want to go this route just make queueing the only way to enter dungeons, this way with encounter design they'll also know they have 4 human players at all times meaning they can forgo this type of inorganic party restriction.

That would be rather inconvenient even for 4 player groups as the fastest non-addon way of resetting an instance for trifectas is porting in and out.

Disband, reinvite all, and re-queue from the menu also works instead of porting. Usually what I do when forming temp groups when farming.

But you're referencing Trifectas, this is about Dungeons, not Trials.

Edit: D'oh, they both have them

and would keep everyone out of dungeons if the dungeon queue broke like it did that one time

Yeah the last thing we need is them messing with the queue again. Gf has been great, q even mostly works. Just stop being so wierd towards people who want to solo or 2/3 man the dungeons. (Not "solo players" there's a difference. I do both. Let me do both!)

Sallymen wrote: »

Yeah that happens. Regardless, if you want to do it solo, ya gotta do whatever it takes. Again nothing really stopping a solo player from attempting this unless they are literally allergic by talking to people for like 2 seconds

If the pressure plate weight leaves, the instance resets and you are kicked out.
If the pressure plate weight ports out but stays grouped, you are grouped and your video recording will show that you did your "solo" run grouped.

And since you are not actually playing together, you have different agendas, different goals. Might be that the pressure plate weight wants to do something else than sit around in their home and go do some group activity. But they are stuck with being in a group but not really being in a group. If they leave the group, you get kicked out in the middle of your run.

And if you practice the same dungeon multiple times, porting in to a dungeon to stand on a pressure plate only to immediately port out every so often gets really old really fast. I'm not sure if I would want to ask any of my friends/guildies "hey, would you like to stay grouped with me for the next 4 hours and every 15 minutes port in to stand on a plate for a sec? No, I don't actually want to play with you, I just want to stay grouped."

Those are nice ideas you have but in reality not really practical.

frogthroat wrote: »

Sallymen wrote: »

Yeah that happens. Regardless, if you want to do it solo, ya gotta do whatever it takes. Again nothing really stopping a solo player from attempting this unless they are literally allergic by talking to people for like 2 seconds

If the pressure plate weight leaves, the instance resets and you are kicked out.
If the pressure plate weight ports out but stays grouped, you are grouped and your video recording will show that you did your "solo" run grouped.

And since you are not actually playing together, you have different agendas, different goals. Might be that the pressure plate weight wants to do something else than sit around in their home and go do some group activity. But they are stuck with being in a group but not really being in a group. If they leave the group, you get kicked out in the middle of your run.

And if you practice the same dungeon multiple times, porting in to a dungeon to stand on a pressure plate only to immediately port out every so often gets really old really fast. I'm not sure if I would want to ask any of my friends/guildies "hey, would you like to stay grouped with me for the next 4 hours and every 15 minutes port in to stand on a plate for a sec? No, I don't actually want to play with you, I just want to stay grouped."

Those are nice ideas you have but in reality not really practical.

Not defending the plates but they don’t need to be online. Other person logs into an alt they don’t care about, group, log out. Can swap and play another character if they want to play. Or even, there’s ways to get someone in a group with their own (offline) alt.

frogthroat wrote: »

Wait, what? There's going to be a hard stop for soloers in the new dungeons?

Has ZOS explained why they don't want people soloing dungeons? It's annoying enough that ICP and Direfrost have these artificial limitations and now they add more?

Luckily for trials mainly Craglorn trials have mandatory minimum group sizes and only AA forces a full group.

Soloing dungeons is a niche category, but it is its own category. There's a small but thriving ... I hesitate to say "community" since "community of soloers" sounds like an oxymoron, but there are many soloers who enjoy challenging themselves. Whether or not ZOS intended a solo "community" to appear, it is here. It exists. Making hard checks restricts the entire demographic.

For soloing effectively you need many, many sets. In order to solo, you pretty much have to play in groups a lot. So it's not like those who solo dungeons wouldn't do group content with groups. And even if farming all the gear wouldn't be an issue, I would still play in groups. I do play in trial groups, in dungeon groups, but sometimes we like to go in less-than-full groups. And other times I play solo because soloing a dungeon is ... get this ... fun!

Making a hard stop for soloers is basically saying "you're having fun wrong."

I love that, a “community of soloers.” 😊

Varana wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

Sallymen wrote: »

Yeah that happens. Regardless, if you want to do it solo, ya gotta do whatever it takes. Again nothing really stopping a solo player from attempting this unless they are literally allergic by talking to people for like 2 seconds

If the pressure plate weight leaves, the instance resets and you are kicked out.
If the pressure plate weight ports out but stays grouped, you are grouped and your video recording will show that you did your "solo" run grouped.

And since you are not actually playing together, you have different agendas, different goals. Might be that the pressure plate weight wants to do something else than sit around in their home and go do some group activity. But they are stuck with being in a group but not really being in a group. If they leave the group, you get kicked out in the middle of your run.

And if you practice the same dungeon multiple times, porting in to a dungeon to stand on a pressure plate only to immediately port out every so often gets really old really fast. I'm not sure if I would want to ask any of my friends/guildies "hey, would you like to stay grouped with me for the next 4 hours and every 15 minutes port in to stand on a plate for a sec? No, I don't actually want to play with you, I just want to stay grouped."

Those are nice ideas you have but in reality not really practical.

Not defending the plates but they don’t need to be online. Other person logs into an alt they don’t care about, group, log out. Can swap and play another character if they want to play. Or even, there’s ways to get someone in a group with their own (offline) alt.

We're talking about a body standing on a pressure plate here. How does an offline alt do that?

They go offline after standing on the plate. That way, they still count as "in group" to prevent the dungeon from resetting, but they can go do other group stuff with a different character and don't have to wait until the soloer is done.

And when I am ready to go again, they log back to that character, come to stand on the plate, log out again, log to the other character they were playing with, continue with what they are doing until I call them again to come stand on the plate?

Sounds pleasant.

For practice having someone offline in the group is pretty good so you can quickly reset the dungeon and try again whatever you are practicing. But if the other character needs to do something in there, like stand on a plate, that would become pretty annoying to come to stand on the plate every few minutes. If you are willing to do that kind of favour for a player, I salute you. But I wouldn't dare to ask anyone to come stand on a plate every 15 minutes.

Varana wrote: »

Errr... sure, in that case it might be a bit of an inconvenience.
But the people trying different tactics or going for some of the achievement runs, are not that many, I'd think.
Instead, people running the dungeon on normal, or just getting through it once for another reason, is much more common. And for that, it works without having to constantly relog.

No, it's not many. But enough that it is its own category. There are people attempting trifectas.

Unfortunately the only "trifecta" I have done is Bloodroot Forge, and that doesn't even have a trifecta achievement. But I am working on it. It's the "no death" part usually for me in other dungeons. Probably should start with some easier where the starts are already established, but I have been practicing Oathsworn Pit. Afaik that has not been solo trifecta yet.

If you check youtube, you will find multiple people running solo trifectas. Off the top of my head, at least Falkreath Hold, Fang Lair, Scalecaller Peak, Unhallowed Grave, The Cauldron and March of Sacrifices trifectas have been done. Lucht just recently did sub 10 minute Scalecaller Peak solo trifecta. Vxplord and TY1MXX are also worth checking out.

This is what I mean with the pressure plates. The entire solo genre/style/"community"/demographic is completely blocked with this artificial stop.