Why do you guys nerf everything but never buff anything? Update 47.

Gendizer · July 11

In every update, you just keep nerfing sets, skills, and everything else. Meanwhile, there are tons of useless skills in the game that nobody ever uses, but instead of buffing them, you keep nerfing what actually works well. I’ll never forgive you for what you did to Arctic Blast on Warden. And now you’ve nerfed Hurricane on Sorc—taking away Major Resolve and replacing it with a useless crit buff that 90% of players already get from the overpowered Velothi Ur-Mage’s Amulet mythic. Same goes for sets: about 80% of the sets in the game are completely useless and nobody uses them. Why not revive them? But no, let’s just keep nerfing everything instead.

Marto · July 11

Because ESO has a massive power creep issue, and buffing underperforming stuff makes that problem worse, not better.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 11

Everything was buffed in U46 which is why things now need to be nerfed.

moderatelyfatman · July 11

cozmic72 wrote: »

[snip]

I disagree: I believe the devs watch people play the game and see who's having fun before deciding this has to stop and whip out the nerf hammer!

!

[edited to remove quote]

Morvan · July 11

Marto wrote: »

Because ESO has a massive power creep issue, and buffing underperforming stuff makes that problem worse, not better.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Everything was buffed in U46 which is why things now need to be nerfed.

Thing is, they acknowledged power creep and said they were fine with it, as subclassing made content more accessible to players, so yeah, if that was the intention, they should definitely be buffing the underperforming lines, not going back on their word.

When you give players power and take it away one patch afterwards, they're not going to feel good about it, this will delay progress on core groups as players need to readapt to their new setting again, it is frustrating and takes time.

By the way, even with the latest changes, the top class lines will barely change, if they change at all, people will just be weaker while still having to run the same stuff due to lack of options, if they were buffing underperforming lines, we'd see actual variety flourish and a healthy subclassing system.

moderatelyfatman · July 11

Morvan wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Because ESO has a massive power creep issue, and buffing underperforming stuff makes that problem worse, not better.

Thing is, they acknowledged power creep and said they were fine with it, as subclassing made content more accessible to players, so yeah, if that was the intention, they should definitely be buffing the underperforming lines, not going back on their word.

When you give players power and take it away one patch afterwards, they're not going to feel good about it, this will delay progress on core groups as players need to readapt to their new setting again, it is frustrating and takes time.

By the way, even with the latest changes, the top class lines will barely change, if they change at all, people will just be weaker while still having to run the same stuff due to lack of options, if they were buffing underperforming lines, we'd see actual variety flourish and a healthy subclassing system.

Unless you are a casual gamer who hasn't even bothered with Subclassing. In which case:
Patch 46 was the status quo.
Patch 47 is a significant nerf.

Just think of Grim Focus for the pure class nightblade. It wasn't overpowered on the nightblade but now the loss of nearly 500 W/S damage has occurred with nothing in return.
If ZOS had buffed the siphoning skill line in it's place then pure nightblades could have been compensated. However, now they are forced to subclass just to keep their damage at the level it was before patch 47.

Waseem · July 11

Find another game to play if you are sad

I play since 10 years back when fungal grotto veteran used to take 40 minutes

Yet all the same crying about "nerf" or " buff" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Morvan · July 11

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Unless you are a casual gamer who hasn't even bothered with Subclassing. In which case:
Patch 46 was the status quo.
Patch 47 is a significant nerf.

Just think of Grim Focus for the pure class nightblade. It wasn't overpowered but now the loss of nearly 500 W/S damage has occurred with nothing in return.
If ZOS had buffed the siphoning skill line in it's place then pure nightblades could have been compensated. However, now they are forced to subclass just to keep their damage at the level it was before patch 47.

I wouldn't say 46 was a status quo, as even though they got stronger while pure class due to the buffs, they were still at a tremendous disadvantage against everyone who were using the subclass system.

I think ALL players who want to stay on a pure class, more than everyone else, should be asking for buffs on underperforming lines, if all lines are somewhat close in power, not only the subclassing system will have more variety and options, everyone who stays on a pure class will not lose as much since all their lines have something to offer.

Everyone gains from proper balance.

Morvan · July 11

Waseem wrote: »

Find another game to play if you are sad

I play since 10 years back when fungal grotto veteran used to take 40 minutes

Yet all the same crying about "nerf" or " buff" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

You know one of the main purposes of having a forum is to discuss and give feedback, right? This is asked by the devs and essential for future updates.

Kinda weird to make fun of it while using the same platform.

FullMax · July 11

Waseem wrote: »

Find another game to play if you are sad

I play since 10 years back when fungal grotto veteran used to take 40 minutes

Yet all the same crying about "nerf" or " buff" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Why don't you want the game to develop?

mocap · July 11

50k, 6-8 buttons parse, 2017
117k, ONE BUTTON parse, 2025
178k, full rotation parse, 2025
What nerfs?

Rune boss in vet Moon Hunter Keep drops dead before the dude even finishes his Hulking werewolf transformation.

ADarklore · July 11

cozmic72 wrote: »

[snip]

This reminds me of Diablo IV, and when the two devs who created a dungeon were showcasing it Live, and kept dying because they didn't even KNOW HOW to play the game they just designed elements for.

I honestly think when devs say, "of course we play the game" they actually mean- 'while at work'- and to me, that's not "playing the game" that's WORKING ON THE GAME. To me, if the devs are truly 'playing the game' it means they go home at night and actually play the game on their off time... which when ESO first came out, some actually did... but I doubt that's the case anymore.

[edited to remove quote]

Rungar · July 11

ADarklore wrote: »

cozmic72 wrote: »

[snip]

This reminds me of Diablo IV, and when the two devs who created a dungeon were showcasing it Live, and kept dying because they didn't even KNOW HOW to play the game they just designed elements for.

I honestly think when devs say, "of course we play the game" they actually mean- 'while at work'- and to me, that's not "playing the game" that's WORKING ON THE GAME. To me, if the devs are truly 'playing the game' it means they go home at night and actually play the game on their off time... which when ESO first came out, some actually did... but I doubt that's the case anymore.

i imagine at this point its like a chain around their necks.. the last thing they want to do and now its all they have. Insult to injury. Cant blame them i suppose but they should understand this will cripple their ability to make the game awesome.

Passion is excellence. Theres no replacement for it. This is why a tiny game like Valheim has consistantly and despite few updates, maintained better steam numbers than eso for many years. Eso has zero passion and everyone knows that.

[edited to remove quote]

Renato90085 · July 11

mocap wrote: »

50k, 6-8 buttons parse, 2017
117k, ONE BUTTON parse, 2025
178k, full rotation parse, 2025
What nerfs?

Rune boss in vet Moon Hunter Keep drops dead before the dude even finishes his Hulking werewolf transformation.

i remember 2017 they add oldest trial dummy,this patch dummy no any trial buff so 2017 your 50k close 100k in u46(like 6m dummy double),so it why you can see 100k parse in u22 arto log
so mean zos use 8 year add 30-40k dps(u45)
and use 1 month add 60k (u46)
if you not meta subclass ,your non-meta really got nerfed, because most subclass weak than 2017 some dps build..if they not use meta and use got nerfed skill line and ult passive

Dino-Jr · July 11

So this sentiment I dont understand to much.

Sub-classing's release as far as I could tell was a massive buff to DPS for anyone who wanted it.

Its introduction was such a ridiculous buff to dmg output they have had to address some things like Assassination and Arcanist builds (though how they tackled arcanist confuses me).

I dont know that its fair to say they only ever nerf when this patch feels like a pretty obvious reaction to the buff to dmg sub-classing represented.

All that said I would have preferred to see them address arcanist and assasination in PTS prior to subclass release to avoid the need for this after the fact so the playerbase wasnt used to having 170k+ dmg builds for a couple weeks brought back to earth now.

Veinblood1965 · July 11

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

cozmic72 wrote: »

[snip]

I disagree: I believe the devs watch people play the game and see who's having fun before deciding this has to stop and whip out the nerf hammer!
!

I gave you an awesome for that one.
[edited to remove quote]

Darrett · July 11

cozmic72 wrote: »

[snip]

I would think if they just looked at stats and data they’d see what abilities and lines aren’t being used and improve those. It can’t be a huge mystery to them that nobody uses Hasty Prayer.

[edited to remove quote]

ZigoSid · July 11

And yet "the beam" is still untouched. What a joke of a game.

tomofhyrule · July 11

You... do realize that U46 enabled absurd power creep, right? Like the base DPS went up by somewhere around 20-50%.

If that's not a buff, what is?

Waseem · July 11

FullMax wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

Find another game to play if you are sad

I play since 10 years back when fungal grotto veteran used to take 40 minutes

Yet all the same crying about "nerf" or " buff" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Why don't you want the game to develop?

I saw so much different requests here that if the devs had listened to, the game would have went bankrupt.

Still though, I belong to the league who is against subclasses, but that's a different topic,
I think the development of this game has been going ok.

The company has made some wrong decisions.. like firing Eric Wrobel

But in the bigger picture, I trust the people behind the scenes. They like my money and they get it and I don't feel negative about it.

Imo only few bad things in the game right now are subclasses (too strong) and the extremely lavish visual/light effects of the mounts(they're disgusting)

FullMax · July 11

Waseem wrote: »

FullMax wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

Find another game to play if you are sad

I play since 10 years back when fungal grotto veteran used to take 40 minutes

Yet all the same crying about "nerf" or " buff" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Why don't you want the game to develop?

I saw so much different requests here that if the devs had listened to, the game would have went bankrupt.

Still though, I belong to the league who is against subclasses, but that's a different topic,
I think the development of this game has been going ok.

The company has made some wrong decisions.. like firing Eric Wrobel

But in the bigger picture, I trust the people behind the scenes. They like my money and they get it and I don't feel negative about it.

Imo only few bad things in the game right now are subclasses (too strong) and the extremely lavish visual/light effects of the mounts(they're disgusting)

Hmm...
I don't think the game will go bankrupt if the developers listen to other people's wishes. If they listen directly to all-all and sundry wishes, and some of them are stupid, then yes, they will go bankrupt, and I've come across quite a few stupid wishes.

What are the main complaints about pvp and subclasses? Someone says that there is too much damage, and then they say that there is less.

I think we should leave the damage alone, but increase the duration of the effects. It really annoys me that some effects only last 5 seconds!! What can you do in 5 seconds??? Strengthen weak skills and sets that no one uses. When no one uses skills for several thousand years, these skills are strengthened so that they start to be used again.

Subclasses really need to be weakened, because, from a logical point of view, even if you take any other game, you take someone else's skills, not native, not yours. You should be worse at them than your native skills of your class. Multiclass should be weaker than a pure class, and have an advantage only in specific situations.

I don't understand skills and damage, and I haven't delved into the patch notes, but I ask the developers to remember the previous patch notes, and reconsider some decisions. I don't think people are bombing for no reason.

Also, it's not good that bosses die too quickly. Many bosses don't even have time to apply their mechanics.

In general, the difficulty of mobs in the overland should be increased, because now it looks like a shooting gallery. Then a window of opportunity will appear to add one "interesting system".

It's one thing to make the right decision once, another thing is constantly changing these decisions over and over again. People can't get used to it when damage changes back/forth. Come to some kind of golden mean, and leave it alone.

And to distract people from damage, bring in some innovations not related to damage, for example, the story mode in dungeons, which many are talking about (because many cannot get to know the plot properly, because party members rush through the dungeon like locusts, and it is impossible to read a single dialogue, I agree with them here).

Then both single players and those who run in a group will be happy.

Weak single players may start complaining again about the increase in difficulty in the overland, but I will say that THERE IS A COMPANION SYSTEM in the game. You do not need to invite anyone to the group or communicate with anyone if you do not want to, and if you want to be a loner and go through it alone.
But it will be necessary to strengthen the companions a little, namely, make them smarter so that they can free the player from a stun and not stand in red circles. Maybe even interact with mechanics in dungeons. The intelligence of companions needs to be increased a little.

If it is still difficult after this, then introduce a system of Daedric artifacts into the game, which will significantly strengthen the player in the overland, but only for one hour.

If it is still difficult after this, then it is better to rest and go to the Sims 4.

Renato90085 · July 11

FullMax wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

FullMax wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

Find another game to play if you are sad

I play since 10 years back when fungal grotto veteran used to take 40 minutes

Yet all the same crying about "nerf" or " buff" 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Why don't you want the game to develop?

I saw so much different requests here that if the devs had listened to, the game would have went bankrupt.

Still though, I belong to the league who is against subclasses, but that's a different topic,
I think the development of this game has been going ok.

The company has made some wrong decisions.. like firing Eric Wrobel

But in the bigger picture, I trust the people behind the scenes. They like my money and they get it and I don't feel negative about it.

Imo only few bad things in the game right now are subclasses (too strong) and the extremely lavish visual/light effects of the mounts(they're disgusting)

Hmm...
I don't think the game will go bankrupt if the developers listen to other people's wishes. If they listen directly to all-all and sundry wishes, and some of them are stupid, then yes, they will go bankrupt, and I've come across quite a few stupid wishes.

What are the main complaints about pvp and subclasses? Someone says that there is too much damage, and then they say that there is less.

I think we should leave the damage alone, but increase the duration of the effects. It really annoys me that some effects only last 5 seconds!! What can you do in 5 seconds??? Strengthen weak skills and sets that no one uses. When no one uses skills for several thousand years, these skills are strengthened so that they start to be used again.

Subclasses really need to be weakened, because, from a logical point of view, even if you take any other game, you take someone else's skills, not native, not yours. You should be worse at them than your native skills of your class. Multiclass should be weaker than a pure class, and have an advantage only in specific situations.

I don't understand skills and damage, and I haven't delved into the patch notes, but I ask the developers to remember the previous patch notes, and reconsider some decisions. I don't think people are bombing for no reason.

Also, it's not good that bosses die too quickly. Many bosses don't even have time to apply their mechanics.

In general, the difficulty of mobs in the overland should be increased, because now it looks like a shooting gallery. Then a window of opportunity will appear to add one "interesting system".

It's one thing to make the right decision once, another thing is constantly changing these decisions over and over again. People can't get used to it when damage changes back/forth. Come to some kind of golden mean, and leave it alone.

And to distract people from damage, bring in some innovations not related to damage, for example, the story mode in dungeons, which many are talking about (because many cannot get to know the plot properly, because party members rush through the dungeon like locusts, and it is impossible to read a single dialogue, I agree with them here).

Then both single players and those who run in a group will be happy.

Weak single players may start complaining again about the increase in difficulty in the overland, but I will say that THERE IS A COMPANION SYSTEM in the game. You do not need to invite anyone to the group or communicate with anyone if you do not want to, and if you want to be a loner and go through it alone.
But it will be necessary to strengthen the companions a little, namely, make them smarter so that they can free the player from a stun and not stand in red circles. Maybe even interact with mechanics in dungeons. The intelligence of companions needs to be increased a little.

If it is still difficult after this, then introduce a system of Daedric artifacts into the game, which will significantly strengthen the player in the overland, but only for one hour.

If it is still difficult after this, then it is better to rest and go to the Sims 4.

About someone says that there is too much damage, and then they say that there is less.
They both is right
need know DPS all name is Damage Per Second
so some about combat time
U46 pts first week our dps really high,and zos choose killed healer share ult set(pp and poe ),Slow down meta arc build quick put 2 ult quick burn anything
If you check log you will see old log some combat total dmg more high,because azureblight and pillager still live ,there dps have many is azureblight dps in weak add,but new patch log single dps in boss high more(so more easy
and only when you choose right 3-5 skill line, you can be a op build,other many subclass is weak than pure.
like nb give up Assassin and want take warden ice line,you make a subclass have 3 bad dd line

AaronGuilder · July 11

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

[snip]

Made me chuckle, but the point is that there are now so many forgotten and old/useless or uninteresting sets, that these are overlooked so yes, nerf sets not the class, and wave the anti-nerf stick at the little used sets to give a balance back to ulti regen for example and make those sets interesting or maybe viable once more.

[edited to remove quote]

Gendizer · July 22

A miracle has happened — ZOS actually listened to the players and reverted what they had ruined back to its original state.

madmufffin · July 22

tomofhyrule wrote: »

You... do realize that U46 enabled absurd power creep, right? Like the base DPS went up by somewhere around 20-50%.

If that's not a buff, what is?

Yes if you use the generically good skill lines, which isn't the ask of the post. All of the sorc lines standalone are ass and warden continues to be undertuned because of it having one super strong pvp skill. That's not even including the absurd number of dead sets in the game that they can't be bothered to attempt to care about.

preevious · July 22

I mean, they do not nerf everything, since the damage keeps growing year after year.
pepperidge farm remembers when 30k DPS was top-of-the-line-OMG-you-are-a-god DPS.