Every DD classs is dead and useless except beam arcanist now

Twohothardware · May 20

sarahthes wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Arcanist has been the best DD since Necrom chapter release. This idea that subclassing is suddenly making Arcanist the only viable DD begs the question as to where have you been. Arcanist has the highest cleave damage and is the easiest class to play. If you're not playing Arcanist right now as a DD on Live it's because you choose not to just the same as you can with subclassing.

This is true at the casual level.

Less cut and dried in endgame, even now on live.

End game there's a range of classes you can play just like with subclassing. There are subclassing combos that deal higher single target damage than Arcanist beam. There are tankier combos and heavy attack combos.

DPS across the board will be higher with subclassing so players won't be forced to run a specific class in order to clear content because at least at this point ZOS has showed no plans to raise the DPS requirements in Trials.

sarahthes · May 20

Twohothardware wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Arcanist has been the best DD since Necrom chapter release. This idea that subclassing is suddenly making Arcanist the only viable DD begs the question as to where have you been. Arcanist has the highest cleave damage and is the easiest class to play. If you're not playing Arcanist right now as a DD on Live it's because you choose not to just the same as you can with subclassing.

This is true at the casual level.

Less cut and dried in endgame, even now on live.

End game there's a range of classes you can play just like with subclassing. There are subclassing combos that deal higher single target damage than Arcanist beam. There are tankier combos and heavy attack combos.

DPS across the board will be higher with subclassing so players won't be forced to run a specific class in order to clear content because at least at this point ZOS has showed no plans to raise the DPS requirements in Trials.

The new trial has the highest DPS checks in the game. It is balanced against subclassing power, not pre-subclass power.

I think you will find in older content that most raid leads will require pragmatic fatecarver so the dds stay alive.

tomofhyrule · May 20

TORCH15 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

ZOS cuddled upto trial HM players, score pushers and players that only think about themselves and in the end the continual catering to them did not pay off, continually did U turns on things for average player improvements approach, things where getting sillier by the season and the only fix in the end was labelled as subclass, which is also terrible and after a number of contnual U- turns its not hard to see that your going in a sort of never ending circle, and has been a very reckless approach, however it is plain too see that the dev teams have tried to correct some past mistakes in which other areas of the game were effected as a result and although today there are no short term benefits to subclassing on the long run i am unsure still

Yup. What really killed ESO was update 35 when everyone and their mother got nerfed into oblivion. They slowly brought back some end game but ultimately the player counts and activity have really dropped off since then. The end game community has become this bounce around private discord thing with the same recycled 200 players and they all feel special now. So this amount of power creep is now making them mad they may be joined by people that couldnt get on their level of skill before subclassing. But all that said, subclassing sounds rushed and likely pushed to attempt to bring player counts back up. Enticing people with huge DPS, unkillable supports, etc. I honestly think its hilarious how mad the end game community is. The fewest are the loudest, they dont represent the entirety of ESO opinion but they think they do. If ZOS thinks buffing people 30% for free will bring back thousands of players and their credit card, they are 1000% going to do that. I dont blame them. The few hundred mad about the meta being too strong dont matter if this plan works for ZOS and the longevity of higher player activity.

See this post I made on a different thread:

tomofhyrule wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

the amount of scaremongering and negativity, particularly on this forum (but also discord and reddit) is bewildering. as far as i can see its simply based on a few people (mainly so called end gamers) and "popularist" streamers expressing their displeasure because suddenly their little club of elitist completion just got opened up .

I see this argument all the time: "oh the only people who are against Subclassing/HA builds/whatever at the elite players who are scared that more people are going to join in!"

So... has anyone tried to get into endgame? Like really tried: actually used the meta gear setups and practiced parsing even on their off-meta Class character to get to a similar DPS output? Every Class can parse at that level (yes, I've seen Templars and Necros and DKs who can outparse Arcanists), and I've seen at least the trifectas through Dawnbringer completeable with pretty well any Class, and even the higher ones could probably have one really good endgame-level whatever playing with a group of meta beambots.

Or is this argument coming more from the place of "I don't want to practice or change anything about myself, I just want them to let me come as I am"?

The endgame community, at least at the level I am (which is not the highest echelons), wants more people to come in. It's been suffering a low population since the U35 exodus (where we also heard "people need to stop whining! There's not going to be an exodus!"). Heck, I've heard so many people talk about the inability to find groups for standard vets - not HMs. That's what really fell off. You have people who strugglebus their way through a vet at all because they don't understand what half their skills and gear do, and then the next step up is the hypersweaty trifectas. That middle group, which used to have a bunch of trainer raid leads, is what left since U35. Project Vitality had the goal of getting people there, and it shut down. But "U35 wasn't that bad! Why can't I find groups?"

The only thing is that endgame is not there to carry people. You are expected to pull your weight, and that does mean changing parts of your build the way your raid lead needs you to. And if you don't want to play with others, then understandably you're not going to be able to find groups. It's like doing group projects in school. If you have a group of people who all work well together and will help each other out, obviously they get a good grade. But if you have a group where one person says "I want to do it this way" and refuses to even try to help out, people are not going to want that person in their group, no matter how much they whine about how "toxic and elitist" everyone else is.

I see a lot of people making the "ugh, the elite players are gatekeepers" who:
don't proc their sets, like a healer with SPC who doesn't ever overheal

overlap buffs, like tanks wearing Yol when a lot of people use Oakensoul or Zenas

come to a trial as DPS and fill their skill bar with heals and shields instead of more damage as if they're soloing

wear the Ring of the Pale Order in group content

do not listen to a word of explanation from the raid lead

try to treat vet content like a normal run and don't respect mechanics, leading to them bombing the group

don't use potions at all, much less the right ones

don't res anyone

blame others for them dying

and above all: don't want to hear suggestions on how they can improve or reject any constructive feedback as "toxic"

Those things are all problems that prevent people from getting into higher-level groups. And none of that's gonna magically get fixed with Subclassing.

Long story short, most people in the endgame (and especially the 'standard vet' tier of engdame) really really want people to join in. But they don't want to have people join just to be carried.

There is still a give-and-take that needs to be addressed. If someone is trying to join a group and is unwilling to change a single thing about their build (their sets, their skills, etc), is unwilling to listen to a raid lead, and will dismiss every tip they’re given as "toxic elitism," then there's not much that can be done. These people don't want to play in groups; they want to play solo with a bunch of NPCs.

I've been in runs with people who are annoyed at how "toxic and gatekeep-y" the endgame community is. They tend to not even try in groups, will screw up mechanics and wipe the group, and then blame everyone else because it's not as easy as it is on normal. I've run with the "you don't need high DPS, you just need to know mechanics!" people who mess up every single mechanic and I can also outparse them in my full tank build.

The thing with Subclassing, as it currently is on PTS, is that it will allow a massive DPS increase... to people who do the theorycrafting enough to know what to slot. Spoiler alert: "just take Fatecarver!" is not going to massively increase your damage; it's picking Herald of the Tome and another line (Assassination) and slotting another couple skills in there (both Grim Focus for the damage buff and something else to generate Crux for Fatecarver), which means you need to drop two of your Class lines so you need to know which passives you're able to give up, in addition to finding the bar space for the other skills you need to slot.

If you are picking skill lines because they're thematically appropriate to your RP (which includes keeping your three original Class lines), then you're eating some nerfs and losing power compared to what you have on live. This means that everyone who has this fantasy that they'll be godmode because of Subclassing, but isn't currently in the habit of optimizing their character, is not going to see it happen. Sorry.
(and if they were in the habit of optimizing, then they wouldn't be "barred from vet content," would they?)

EDIT: I used the wrong from of “they’re” like a total idiot, and I beg forgiveness for relying on voice to text.

Twohothardware · May 20

sarahthes wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Arcanist has been the best DD since Necrom chapter release. This idea that subclassing is suddenly making Arcanist the only viable DD begs the question as to where have you been. Arcanist has the highest cleave damage and is the easiest class to play. If you're not playing Arcanist right now as a DD on Live it's because you choose not to just the same as you can with subclassing.

This is true at the casual level.

Less cut and dried in endgame, even now on live.

End game there's a range of classes you can play just like with subclassing. There are subclassing combos that deal higher single target damage than Arcanist beam. There are tankier combos and heavy attack combos.

DPS across the board will be higher with subclassing so players won't be forced to run a specific class in order to clear content because at least at this point ZOS has showed no plans to raise the DPS requirements in Trials.

The new trial has the highest DPS checks in the game. It is balanced against subclassing power, not pre-subclass power.

I think you will find in older content that most raid leads will require pragmatic fatecarver so the dds stay alive.

That’s absolutely no different than live for the last 2 years. If you’re Raiding with a lead that forces you to run pragmatic fatecarver to stay alive on pts they’re the same leads that have been requiring you to play Arcanist on live.

sarahthes · May 20

Twohothardware wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Arcanist has been the best DD since Necrom chapter release. This idea that subclassing is suddenly making Arcanist the only viable DD begs the question as to where have you been. Arcanist has the highest cleave damage and is the easiest class to play. If you're not playing Arcanist right now as a DD on Live it's because you choose not to just the same as you can with subclassing.

This is true at the casual level.

Less cut and dried in endgame, even now on live.

End game there's a range of classes you can play just like with subclassing. There are subclassing combos that deal higher single target damage than Arcanist beam. There are tankier combos and heavy attack combos.

DPS across the board will be higher with subclassing so players won't be forced to run a specific class in order to clear content because at least at this point ZOS has showed no plans to raise the DPS requirements in Trials.

The new trial has the highest DPS checks in the game. It is balanced against subclassing power, not pre-subclass power.

I think you will find in older content that most raid leads will require pragmatic fatecarver so the dds stay alive.

That’s absolutely no different than live for the last 2 years. If you’re Raiding with a lead that forces you to run pragmatic fatecarver to stay alive on pts they’re the same leads that have been requiring you to play Arcanist on live.

Well, prag plus barrier stacking can substitute for raid awareness in older content. That's why they do it.

Doesn't work in Rockgrove or DSR though. Does work in SE and Lucent.

sarahthes · May 20

tomofhyrule wrote: »

TORCH15 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

ZOS cuddled upto trial HM players, score pushers and players that only think about themselves and in the end the continual catering to them did not pay off, continually did U turns on things for average player improvements approach, things where getting sillier by the season and the only fix in the end was labelled as subclass, which is also terrible and after a number of contnual U- turns its not hard to see that your going in a sort of never ending circle, and has been a very reckless approach, however it is plain too see that the dev teams have tried to correct some past mistakes in which other areas of the game were effected as a result and although today there are no short term benefits to subclassing on the long run i am unsure still

Yup. What really killed ESO was update 35 when everyone and their mother got nerfed into oblivion. They slowly brought back some end game but ultimately the player counts and activity have really dropped off since then. The end game community has become this bounce around private discord thing with the same recycled 200 players and they all feel special now. So this amount of power creep is now making them mad they may be joined by people that couldnt get on their level of skill before subclassing. But all that said, subclassing sounds rushed and likely pushed to attempt to bring player counts back up. Enticing people with huge DPS, unkillable supports, etc. I honestly think its hilarious how mad the end game community is. The fewest are the loudest, they dont represent the entirety of ESO opinion but they think they do. If ZOS thinks buffing people 30% for free will bring back thousands of players and their credit card, they are 1000% going to do that. I dont blame them. The few hundred mad about the meta being too strong dont matter if this plan works for ZOS and the longevity of higher player activity.

See this post I made on a different thread:

tomofhyrule wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

the amount of scaremongering and negativity, particularly on this forum (but also discord and reddit) is bewildering. as far as i can see its simply based on a few people (mainly so called end gamers) and "popularist" streamers expressing their displeasure because suddenly their little club of elitist completion just got opened up .

I see this argument all the time: "oh the only people who are against Subclassing/HA builds/whatever at the elite players who are scared that more people are going to join in!"

So... has anyone tried to get into endgame? Like really tried: actually used the meta gear setups and practiced parsing even on their off-meta Class character to get to a similar DPS output? Every Class can parse at that level (yes, I've seen Templars and Necros and DKs who can outparse Arcanists), and I've seen at least the trifectas through Dawnbringer completeable with pretty well any Class, and even the higher ones could probably have one really good endgame-level whatever playing with a group of meta beambots.

Or is this argument coming more from the place of "I don't want to practice or change anything about myself, I just want them to let me come as I am"?

The endgame community, at least at the level I am (which is not the highest echelons), wants more people to come in. It's been suffering a low population since the U35 exodus (where we also heard "people need to stop whining! There's not going to be an exodus!"). Heck, I've heard so many people talk about the inability to find groups for standard vets - not HMs. That's what really fell off. You have people who strugglebus their way through a vet at all because they don't understand what half their skills and gear do, and then the next step up is the hypersweaty trifectas. That middle group, which used to have a bunch of trainer raid leads, is what left since U35. Project Vitality had the goal of getting people there, and it shut down. But "U35 wasn't that bad! Why can't I find groups?"

The only thing is that endgame is not there to carry people. You are expected to pull your weight, and that does mean changing parts of your build the way your raid lead needs you to. And if you don't want to play with others, then understandably you're not going to be able to find groups. It's like doing group projects in school. If you have a group of people who all work well together and will help each other out, obviously they get a good grade. But if you have a group where one person says "I want to do it this way" and refuses to even try to help out, people are not going to want that person in their group, no matter how much they whine about how "toxic and elitist" everyone else is.

I see a lot of people making the "ugh, the elite players are gatekeepers" who:
don't proc their sets, like a healer with SPC who doesn't ever overheal

overlap buffs, like tanks wearing Yol when a lot of people use Oakensoul or Zenas

come to a trial as DPS and fill their skill bar with heals and shields instead of more damage as if they're soloing

wear the Ring of the Pale Order in group content

do not listen to a word of explanation from the raid lead

try to treat vet content like a normal run and don't respect mechanics, leading to them bombing the group

don't use potions at all, much less the right ones

don't res anyone

blame others for them dying

and above all: don't want to hear suggestions on how they can improve or reject any constructive feedback as "toxic"

Those things are all problems that prevent people from getting into higher-level groups. And none of that's gonna magically get fixed with Subclassing.

Long story short, most people in the endgame (and especially the 'standard vet' tier of engdame) really really want people to join in. But they don't want to have people join just to be carried.

There is still a give-and-take that needs to be addressed. If someone is trying to join a group and is unwilling to change a single thing about their build (their sets, their skills, etc), is unwilling to listen to a raid lead, and will dismiss every tip their given as "toxic elitism," then there's not much that can be done. These people don't want to play in groups; they want to play solo with a bunch of NPCs.

I've been in runs with people who are annoyed at how "toxic and gatekeep-y" the endgame community is. They tend to not even try in groups, will screw up mechanics and wipe the group, and then blame everyone else because it's not as easy as it is on normal. I've run with the "you don't need high DPS, you just need to know mechanics!" people who mess up every single mechanic and I can also outparse them in my full tank build.

The thing with Subclassing, as it currently is on PTS, is that it will allow a massive DPS increase... to people who do the theorycrafting enough to know what to slot. Spoiler alert: "just take Fatecarver!" is not going to massively increase your damage; it's picking Herald of the Tome and another line (Assassination) and slotting another couple skills in there (both Grim Focus for the damage buff and something else to generate Crux for Fatecarver), which means you need to drop two of your Class lines so you need to know which passives you're able to give up, in addition to finding the bar space for the other skills you need to slot.

If you are picking skill lines because they're thematically appropriate to your RP (which includes keeping your three original Class lines), then you're eating some nerfs and losing power compared to what you have on live. This means that everyone who has this fantasy that they'll be godmode because of Subclassing, but isn't currently in the habit of optimizing their character, is not going to see it happen. Sorry.
(and if they were in the habit of optimizing, then they wouldn't be "barred from vet content," would they?)

True and based.

RandomKodiak · May 21

I am an older player, I have had an issue my entire life with hands shaking and now have carpal tunnel as well. I have played this game 7 1/2 years now and wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I am not a fan boy to the point I have had warnings on the forums before. I am a PvE only player as I don't like and plain and simply don't have the reaction speed for PvP. I have also gotten vet clears in every trial and dungeon with casual guilds. I have had to work to crunch the numbers and figure out ways around my limitations when possible. I can't do dynamic rotation so I don't play Necro or DK or Magplar but have currently 6 dps builds (3 Sorc, 3 others) that can hit 100k or higher (Down from 8 with recent nerfs and health issues). If you put in the work all current content is doable without Arc beam. I have not played the trial on PTS but imagine it will not require 140k dps even to complete normal Vet. If you can't find a guild in this game that doesn't require you to be a beamer then you are not looking that hard. If you are not, as was said above, willing to do the work now to get what you want the extra dps from subclassing isn't going to magically make it happen. The newest trial is always a challenge for me and have always gotten my vet clear within a month, imagine this one will be the same. Once again I agree the system needs work, I agree (as a Sorc main) that there are some classes that feel like they getting shorted but there will be adjustments soon I hope. This is not going to kill ESO anymore than anything else they've done to "kill" ESO. Keep raising issues, keep voicing dislike for the things you think need change but like everything else things are always going to change. If you don't like it you will be missed in a game that is getting older, if you do like it try to get some more friends to join they will be welcome but it is a game in the end.

Gabriel_H · May 21

randconfig wrote: »

The problem is it's a mind numbingly simple playstyle, and all alternative Arcanist builds are unviable..

Define "unviable".

If the target dps for a trifecta clear is say 100k, and each class is capable of that then they are viable.

If the target dps for a world record score is 200k then some classes will not be viable.

Which scenario does ZOS balance around? (Hint: Not the second one)

Do lower dps classes, who are still viable, get as much play? No, but that is the Raid Leader's choice.

Personally, I don't care class you play in what role as long as you are doing what is necessary to get that clear. I have never had a trial not clear because of what class someone was, but due to their ability (skill) to use it and do the mechanics.

ZhuJiuyin · May 21

Try to use 8dps for U45 non-pet sorc to complete LChm trifecta,
Or use a Templar Tank or DK Healer to complete the DSRhm trifecta.

No doubt, then someone will start saying "there will always be meta" and "you should find a team that will take you in or you should form your own team"
Then, someone will come out and explain why the current meta is so bad, and why most non-meta builds are a burden on the team.
Then someone will accuse these people of being toxic DPS gatekeepers.

The current atmosphere among players is undoubtedly bad, as each party is against each other and accuses the other party of being toxic. Subclassing is likely to further promote such an atmosphere because 1. Pure classes are weakened, 2. Players who are unwilling to put in the effort to learn do not know how to effectively combine skill lines, and 3. DPS requirements for new trials are increased (this is a verified fact). Subclassing increases the DPS ceiling of top players, which in turn raises the threshold for joining the PVE final game. And due to the favoritism towards certain classes, and the disregard towards certain classes, the meta will decrease in number, causing many top players to quit the game because their main class will have trouble making it to the end game. 4. Subclassing will also make the ceiling and floor of PVP players larger and make mid-level players disappear, because the learning cost and trial-and-error cost of effectively combining skill lines and sets will increase, because subclassing requires you to have multiple classes and enough skill points first, otherwise you will fall far behind others.

At this point, subclassing will make it more expensive for mid-level players to progress than it is now, which will in turn kill their enthusiasm for the game, and we will end up seeing a further widening of the divide between casual and advanced players, culminating in an irreparable conflict.

No one likes to be Cassandra, but we’ve seen it with the U35 and now we’ll get to experience it with the U46.

Ezhh · May 21

RandomKodiak wrote: »

If you can't find a guild in this game that doesn't require you to be a beamer then you are not looking that hard.

I have huge respect for you, and anyone like you, who manages to take the time and effort to enable a healthy way to play vet content for themselves when dealing with something like carpal tunnel, and I want to be clear that I agree with a lot of what you said, but I have to take some exception to this one part, because it presents a viewpoint that starts to not hold up beyond regular veteran content.

While I'm sure I could find (or just make) groups that will let me play as I wish in vet content, and for earlier HM and even some trifecta level content, once you move into HM/trifecta difficulty for the newest trials you will find a sea of arcanist spots on all the rosters and... that's pretty much it if you want to be a parse DD, right up until you start to get into scorepushing territory and people begin to care about single target damage again. There's a huge gap between a certain progress point and scorepushing where everything is about beam and it's very difficult to get parse spots unless you are playing beam.

This is what many of us are taking issue with.

Renato90085 · May 22

Nomeg_Khuul wrote: »

Play the way you want.

You don’t have to play with anyone—or any team—that demands you play differently.

You can always build a group with like-minded players and play exactly how you want.

Don’t like beaming? Learn to effectively use—or spam—AOE abilities available to all classes, like Wall of Elements, Cleave, Arrow Spray, and Whirlwind, especially during trash pulls or add phases.

I’m looking forward to subclassing and will not use beaming (Arc or Templar) unless it truly fits the playstyle I have in mind for that character.

Play the way you want. I do.

sure,why not,my nb only there skill can use
but main problem is i run nb and my bis skill still auto lost 40-60k dps and sometime cant done 3p reef, harder my trifecta training
next patch more hard because i lost azureblight part dps
maybe nerf beam 30% and buff there skill can fix this?

Eratas_Dualitas · May 22

Fatecarver should have been an Ultimate, not a spammable.

Orbital78 · May 22

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Try to use 8dps for U45 non-pet sorc to complete LChm trifecta,
Or use a Templar Tank or DK Healer to complete the DSRhm trifecta.

I'm guessing 75-90%+ of the game population doesn't touch vDSR or vLC, let alone the hardmodes and trifectas on top of that. With a well rounded core I only have one guild that has a core that can even get to Telaria HM (they may have cleared it, I only filled a few times).

Trying to nerf things out of spite isn't going to help anyone. So much bait in these PTS threads.

ZhuJiuyin · May 22

No one is advocating malicious nerfs, most people here are asking for reasonable combat balance
For example, making Fatecarver's damage consistent with other class's area abilities (or other class's area abilities consistent with Fatecarver)、 making Rush of Agony follow Crowd Control rules、making Necro and Sorc's corpse/pet mechanics work the same as other classes instead of having the entire class be brought down by that mechanic (like Arc's Crux).etc.

This is also the common claim of many end players (whether PVE or PVP), that is, "maintaining combat balance while maintaining uniqueness."
Is this difficult? Maybe. Is this not possible? Definitely not, as there are already many games that do a good job of balancing combat while maintaining class/skill uniqueness.

Ragnarok0130 · May 22

Daoin wrote: »

ZOS cuddled upto trial HM players, score pushers and players that only think about themselves and in the end the continual catering to them did not pay off, continually did U turns on things for average player improvements approach, things where getting sillier by the season and the only fix in the end was labelled as subclass, which is also terrible and after a number of contnual U- turns its not hard to see that your going in a sort of never ending circle, and has been a very reckless approach, however it is plain too see that the dev teams have tried to correct some past mistakes in which other areas of the game were effected as a result and although today there are no short term benefits to subclassing on the long run i am unsure still

That’s a bold claim and one that I’ve never seen during the past 11 years. Can you give examples where ZoS catered to end gamers while punishing normies because I can’t think of a single instance. I can think of justified yet unpopular nerfs (that were also unpopular with end gamers) of over performing skills, item sets, and mythics like the Oakensoul ring in U36 or 37 but end gamers and PVPers are generally the whipping boys of ZoS and the overland community here on the forums and on social media.

Ragnarok0130 · May 22

sarahthes wrote: »

TORCH15 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

ZOS cuddled upto trial HM players, score pushers and players that only think about themselves and in the end the continual catering to them did not pay off, continually did U turns on things for average player improvements approach, things where getting sillier by the season and the only fix in the end was labelled as subclass, which is also terrible and after a number of contnual U- turns its not hard to see that your going in a sort of never ending circle, and has been a very reckless approach, however it is plain too see that the dev teams have tried to correct some past mistakes in which other areas of the game were effected as a result and although today there are no short term benefits to subclassing on the long run i am unsure still

Yup. What really killed ESO was update 35 when everyone and their mother got nerfed into oblivion. They slowly brought back some end game but ultimately the player counts and activity have really dropped off since then. The end game community has become this bounce around private discord thing with the same recycled 200 players and they all feel special now. So this amount of power creep is now making them mad they may be joined by people that couldnt get on their level of skill before subclassing. But all that said, subclassing sounds rushed and likely pushed to attempt to bring player counts back up. Enticing people with huge DPS, unkillable supports, etc. I honestly think its hilarious how mad the end game community is. The fewest are the loudest, they dont represent the entirety of ESO opinion but they think they do. If ZOS thinks buffing people 30% for free will bring back thousands of players and their credit card, they are 1000% going to do that. I dont blame them. The few hundred mad about the meta being too strong dont matter if this plan works for ZOS and the longevity of higher player activity.

Endgamers would love if more people joined us. Why wouldn't we want more people playing at a high level??? If we don't have people progressing to endgame, and someone already there stops playing, our rosters just get harder to fill. I haven't met a single person who wants to make it harder for others to play the game for the purpose of gatekeeping.

Our complaints have nothing to do with trying to restrict access. If we wanted to restrict access we wouldn't bring new people into our runs, specifically look for people without the clear for what we are trying to do when making rosters, etc.

Excactly, getting new blood into the end game was the expressed purpose of Nefas’ Project Vitality so groups would stop poaching talent from one another. It’s so baffling that overland players think we want to gatekeep end game content when it benefits us to have far more players to fill raid rosters.

I think 99% of “gatekeeping” accusations are just players mad that raid raids leads have minimum requirements for class/skill/CP/gear to be able to run veteran or veteran hard mode content and the normies don’t want to put in the effort to be able to meet those minimum requirements to ensure a successful run. Some of them seem mad that they need to farm dungeons for beginner sets and monster sets before they can jump into normal to get trial sets and later run vet.

Daoin · May 22

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

ZOS cuddled upto trial HM players, score pushers and players that only think about themselves and in the end the continual catering to them did not pay off, continually did U turns on things for average player improvements approach, things where getting sillier by the season and the only fix in the end was labelled as subclass, which is also terrible and after a number of contnual U- turns its not hard to see that your going in a sort of never ending circle, and has been a very reckless approach, however it is plain too see that the dev teams have tried to correct some past mistakes in which other areas of the game were effected as a result and although today there are no short term benefits to subclassing on the long run i am unsure still

That’s a bold claim and one that I’ve never seen during the past 11 years. Can you give examples where ZoS catered to end gamers while punishing normies because I can’t think of a single instance. I can think of justified yet unpopular nerfs (that were also unpopular with end gamers) of over performing skills, item sets, and mythics like the Oakensoul ring in U36 or 37 but end gamers and PVPers are generally the whipping boys of ZoS and the overland community here on the forums and on social media.

i dont make bold claims, that is my truthful opinion. seems to me eso is in for a few more seasons of the same treatment. not that it matters anymore, my eso hours have been whittled down to 2 hours per week while subscription has ended and not renewed and likely after my 2 hour per week commitment is done eso shall be shelved for the foreseeable future. so whatever the background reasoon to end up where eso is today, it is just not my cup of tea anymore. wish a great gaming experience to everyone else

Twohothardware · May 22

Necro, Nightblade, Sorcerer and Arcanist are all A to S tier classes with subclassing in PvE and I wouldn't even pick any of Arcanist skill lines for PvP.

This idea that every class is dead because of a single skill from Arcanist being meta is like saying every class in the game is dead because they all slot Dawnbreaker for their Ultimate.

sarahthes · May 22

Twohothardware wrote: »

Necro, Nightblade, Sorcerer and Arcanist are all A to S tier classes with subclassing in PvE and I wouldn't even pick any of Arcanist skill lines for PvP.

This idea that every class is dead because of a single skill from Arcanist being meta is like saying every class in the game is dead because they all slot Dawnbreaker for their Ultimate.

I like the example because they're all slotting incap, not dawnbreaker.

Twohothardware · May 22

sarahthes wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Necro, Nightblade, Sorcerer and Arcanist are all A to S tier classes with subclassing in PvE and I wouldn't even pick any of Arcanist skill lines for PvP.

This idea that every class is dead because of a single skill from Arcanist being meta is like saying every class in the game is dead because they all slot Dawnbreaker for their Ultimate.

I like the example because they're all slotting incap, not dawnbreaker.

I was talking about now on live.

Faint_One · May 26

Nerfing beam is no necessary，but on top of that，zos not make any environments to punish channel-like builds，even more hard-long distance-cleave fight been released，that's arc-only instance.

mrreow · May 27

Twohothardware wrote: »

Necro, Nightblade, Sorcerer and Arcanist are all A to S tier classes with subclassing in PvE and I wouldn't even pick any of Arcanist skill lines for PvP.

This idea that every class is dead because of a single skill from Arcanist being meta is like saying every class in the game is dead because they all slot Dawnbreaker for their Ultimate.

Dawnbreaker killed PvP flavor and variability not because it is so strong but because other ultimates are so weak. It got to a point where people couldn't stand to look at the animation anymore and changed their builds to weaker just so it is something more exciting which like happens almost never in a pvp competitive game and says a lot.

ajkb78 · July 4

Ezhh wrote: »

mrreow wrote: »

I plainly refuse to do weaving because it has detrimental effect on anyone in the long run and I want to use my hands for long years yet

Praise the beam

No, weaving does not automatically have a detrimental effect on anyone. Saying so makes me wonder if you understand how to use it properly.

Let's ignore beams and channeled skills for a moment: we can only cast one skill per GCD (about a second). This means you cast one light attack per second while weaving correctly as well. I have two hands. I can't speak for controller users.

It's nonsense for controller users too. Light attack uses R2, so unless you're a lunatic and put your spammable on R1 then the rhythm is right index finger followed by either left index finger or right thumb and then a pause for the GCD, neither of which combination is awkward at all. Generally I put my spammable on L1 which gives a nice smooth rhythm divided between the two hands, but even activating a skill with the right thumb after activating LA with the right index finger is a non-issue. Activating the skill on R1 straight after a light attack is a little more awkward but there's usually a passive or a long-duration buff or dot that can go there so it's not really a problem in practice. I generally use it for camo hunter (or tweety bird on my sorc, or blinding flare on my pvp toon).

Islyn · July 4

Orbital78 wrote: »

Give me back my jab builds. If people wanna run beams I say let them, there is no excuse for doing 10k dps anymore in random dungeons then right? I do like the self synergy options given to Templar, Sorc, and Necro. I'd like Templars ultimates looked at too. BUFF not nerf, beam is in a good spot for a long time, give lighting heavy attacks some more heaviness with those splashes again.

Except why do we need MORE BUFFS? I mean yeah I agree with you how it's unbalanced across classes AND I agree re lightning staves heavy also - but I feel Arcanist (esp flail and beam) are too damn strong.

I'd say buff the * out of the content (not boss health), let the NPCs and bosses really kick the players' backsides (too much low dmg ppl can self heal through and one shot damage that no one can - especially in vet dungeons - makes healers pointless) - and have objective based content vs damage sponge content. Let the NPCs hit hard - think Craglorn in the Olden Days.

Make some NPCs randomly resistant to some types of damage and swap it around so no one is forced to go only this or that. Make some npcs that can only be damaged if at least 8 players (or 3/4 in dungeons) are FULL HEALTH, and give them a dot that increases over time etc.

Mix it up with more of the kinds of *things people need to do* ASIDE FROM basically dummy parsing. Twins on MoL is great example, and 1st boss VDSR and some of the several other ones in trials (could make a BIG list of fun mechanics in places but you know what I mean I think).

I am sure most people will

this reply but w/e that's fine.

Edited to add a little detail.