mistformsquirrel wrote: »

Honestly, it's kinda impossible to say.

My personal hunch (and this is *just* a hunch) is that they're going to move to giving out more spells/skills via scribing grimoires and guild/world skill lines instead of classes; but that's purely a hunch and even if that's the direction their trending now, nothing says they can't change their minds later.

Yes, that is my feeling about it, too. Scribing has a LOT of room to grow, even INTO class skill lines.

I just really want a Bard class.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Why not just new skill lines? new abilities don't need to be class locked.

Now, there's a thought! Bardic skill line, unlockable under World skills (or maybe Guild?). I really like that idea, I hope it happens!

LunaFlora wrote: »

no there can still be classes. ZOS_Kevin said this in May in a similar thread

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8307929#Comment_8307929

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just want to be clear here. We have never stated that we will not do classes in the future. The team is always testing and playing around with class ideas. While we don't have anything to share currently, it does not mean we will never have a new class in the future.

edited my first sentence, it was "yes" because i misread the title of the post)

Well, I guess there is some hope, at least! Thank you for the link!

There's plenty of reasons for them not add another class (effort vs reward and balance) other than subclassing. So I wouldn't necessarily blame subclassing for it, although it does add class variety similar to how a new class would. I still have so many combinations to try out, for example.

In some way, subclassing makes a new class more valuable to players, because people can use the skills on their pre-existing characters. And they've already standardized, hybridized, and balanced the class lines around subclassing, so there's a baseline to add new skills to. (Not that the current classes don't need more balance work).

Arcanist shows that they can make a cool, fun class with a unique mechanic. If they added a new class like that, or went back to add something like that to the old classes, that would be great.

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Arcanist shows that they can make a cool, fun class with a unique mechanic. If they added a new class like that, or went back to add something like that to the old classes, that would be great.

I don't know. I can't help but think that if the Arcanist class wasn't so devastatingly over powered, it would be nowhere near as popular.

I've been running an Arcanist main for a couple years now, and can honestly say that if it weren't for that raw power, I'd be playing a couple other classes much more often because I find them more fun mechanically.

But then too. Necro and Templar are my two favorite classes to play from gameplay perspective. So what do I know. I'm obviously a glutton for punishment.

Considering they said it took a couple of years and a lot of searching and optimizing to find resources to add Arcanist... because of the outdated game engine and little resource overhead they have left.

So with that being said, I don't see how they could add another class... never say never... but... given the outdated engine and them already seeming to have reached a peak of optimization (although I'm sure they're still trying)... it's unlikely IMO. I think subclassing was their way of allowing us to create our own classes and then they will probably add new scribing skills, or may well start 'reworking' existing classes (which I hope not). They talked about giving every class a 'mechanic' like the Arcanist's Crux system-- but we all see how miserable that is with subclassing. The Arcanist's passives work great with the crux system, but are of no use to anyone who doesn't want to use Arcanist skills.

Subclasses doesn't suggest new classes, but I would much prefer new skillines than more badly portrayed classes.

Also bard is not a class in Elder Scrolls, at least not in the way many assume. A bard in Elder Scrolls is just a thief type character with a focus on speechcraft, illusion and other thief skills. No music involved, because this is not DnD.
Music playing bards are musicians, which we can find in most inns, and we can pretend be one by regularly playing music emotes.

I want a new Class so bad. With Subclassing, they now can design it as a modular system so existing players can pick up the lines without making a whole new character (but players with open character slots can make a new character of the new Class and then also experience the newly redesigned starter zones)

The way the Systems Designer talked about Classes in the Subclassing article though is very revealing that they see Classes as having three distinct lines - tank, heal, and damage. Now this is currently true for the three DLC Classes, but not for the four basegame ones. That also indicates that any they add would also go in those strict roles as well.

Because of that, I don't know if single-lines would be a good idea. Sure, a lot of people talk about "oh, they could just add one line instead of a full Class!" but they see Class lines as sticking to a single role, so that would mean that they'd make one line for one role and leave the other roles out. Besides, they've added single lines before (Psijic skill line) that are not tied to Subclassing, so if you're only adding one line why not make it general and not using the Subclass system?

The other reason that it would be a really really good idea to add a new Class: $$$. People are disgruntled that the 2025 season is more expensive that previous Chapters and also doesn't offer anywhere close to the value from before (Subclassing is basegame). But every DLC Class forces you to open your wallet in some way. That would really be a great way to push sales of the 2026 Content Pass since a lot of people are burned by 2025's, and Classes are going to be popular, particularly if they're something people really want.

As to the Classes that are most desired...

Monk is a popular choice. However, an ESO Class consists of three lines that hit all three roles, and it is designed that a character of any Class whould be able to wear any armor and wield any weapon. It's honestly not easy to come up with three roles worth of skills for a Monk (how would a Monk Tank work?), and that also means that a heavy-armor greatsword Monk would have to be a thing. I feel that most people who want a Monk actually want an unarmed weapon line, not a Class.

Bard is a popular choice. Again though, how can you get three lines from that? Also, most people have D&D Bards in mind when they talk about a Bard, and the Elder Scrolls series doesn't have that - bards in the Elder Scrolls are literally just entertainers. In every game of the series, they've basically been thieves with illusion magic and speechcraft, which really doesn't translate well to MMO combat. However, a Bard line could be the healing line of a different Class and still have that D&D flavor people want, and then people could Subclass it on anyone.

Artificer seems like the easiest to create into a Class. It can easily fall into lines for summoning pets, using gadgets, and tonal magic (see the Bard stuff!), and a Dwemer theme really does fit in well with the universe. The only question here is whether Bethesda would allow it - naturally an Artificer shouldn't solve the mystery of the Dwemer, but it is something you could play with. We even have NPCs who could be retconned into Artificers (Neramo, Tharayya, the Vanos twins, now Hyacinth as well), and we've seen in every mainline game someone who does tinker with Dwemer tech.

Finally, I want to touch on the idea of a new weapon line a la a Monk line. We've never gotten a weapon line, so that would be interesting, but I feel like any weapon line would have to be basegame, not DLC - especially if it's something like an unarmed or 1H only line, since you can already do those in game (and be ineffective at it). That all then goes back to the last point of "ZOS needs to do something that will sell Content passes." Even if they cam out with a completely new weapon like spears, that would mean adding a spear to every set (great way to get players to go back and farm old content...), but then do you drop spears if you don't buy it? What about the motifs? How does that all work?

In conclusion, I really think a new Class would be a really smart idea for them to do next year, both logically and logistically. And I'd love for it to be an artificer.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

As well, I think the moment IA Class Sets dropped, that spelled the end of additional classes ever being added because I don't see them heaping another 72 stickerbooking entries into that already unforgiving workload currently there. Especially if they ever actually add the rumored 3rd class sets to IA (gawd I hope not).

Let me jump on this too.

This is an MMO. Getting players to grind to redo the content for completion is a benefit, not a drawback. Because the more people who are playing, the better your numbers are. Sure the players may not like it, but a live-service game isn't gonna survive from giving players a way to not play the game for a while.

(even look at the Subclassing article. They said "As there are now 21 total skill lines you can unlock and play on your account, it will be a long-term project to max all of them out." They want things to take a while)

As to a 3rd IA set? It's defintiely coming at some point, and we'll all grind them out because otherwise people will stop engaging with the content. And if a 3rd Class gets added, that's one new Class set style to collect, along with its own 3 lines worth of sets.

Seems like a really good way to keep players actively going into the content, doesn't it...

Cooperharley wrote: »

Quite the opposite I think.

If I had to guess, I'd imagine we'll see combat skill lines more often. Could be kinda hard to come up with 3 ulti's, 15 active skills, and 15 passives for bard or monk for instance. Plus, what would a tank bard or monk look like?

I imagine they can add "classes" in the form of 1-2 skill lines specifically much easier and that we'll see that! But, who knows? I sure hope they continue to add classes as there are currently major archetypes that are missing within tamriel that shouldn't be for the players!

I also hope they continue to add weapon lines. Only time will tell! Looking forward to next year!

I think the challenge with classes is less that it's hard to come up with ability ideas and more that the ideas can end up being a bit redundant or unbalanced.

For example, all seven classes have at least one Ultimate ability that does AOE damage, most have at least one ultimate that heals, and most have an ultimate that provides a defensive boost.

It's not necessarily hard to come up with ideas that stick to that formula but, you can end up looking a bit repetitive.

If you aren't going to break the existing formulas for classes around half of your ability slots are going to just be variants of existing abilities that every class has and most of the other half of the abilities are going to be just variants on the somewhat rarer class abilities.

In Morrowind, one of the skills associated with Bards was Illusion.

So for a Bard in ESO you could make an Illusion Tank.

Frenzy = Taunt
Sanctuary = Major Resolve
Paralyze = CC
Rally = Buff for yourself and allies.
Sound = Debuff enemies

The Ult for the line could be a combo of AOE Paralyze + a Sanctuary/Rally variant depending on the morph selected.

The thing is, does anyone really want to spend $ to play that instead of the existing classes?

Yeah, maybe you could implement some functions with the stealth/justice system that might make it feel a little more unique but I still think it might be a bit of a reach.

With Monks Tanking you'd have the question on where you are drawing the line between magical and mundane.

Morrowind's description of monks and the skills leans towards being mundane + healing.

ESO's Flame Adepts lean towards being a mix of magic and hand to hand. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Flame_Adept

If your aiming for the former, you might try a tanking line that's focused on Athleticism with a bit of a focus on providing movement/evasion.

If you are aiming for the latter, you would likely be taking a more magical approach to fit with the rest of the class.

ghastley wrote: »

Why would anyone ever want a new class? By definition, class skills can only be added to an existing character at the double-cost rate in skill points. A new skill line would advance so much faster.

Because some people want to play with a new character in a new way.

I really want a new Class because I love the new character experience. That's not something you can do with Subclassing - if I make a new character, I can either replay something I already have or spend a lot of skill points to give it some other skill points for skills I already have.

As opposed to a new Class which gives a whole new way to play, and then someone who doesn't want to make a new character can still use part of it if they don't want to level it from scratch.

I doubt we will ever see any more classes unless ESO ditches xbone and ps4 that would a sizeable amount of playerbase.

I'd imagine new classes would still drop, although probably slower now, I am hoping that with Subclassing, it opens the doors for new skill lines to drop on their as well. Ones that might not fit a complete class theme, but smaller ideas and themes of their own.

I'd be holding my wallet and not my breath, though.

Elsonso wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Quite the opposite I think.

If I had to guess, I'd imagine we'll see combat skill lines more often. Could be kinda hard to come up with 3 ulti's, 15 active skills, and 15 passives for bard or monk for instance. Plus, what would a tank bard or monk look like?

I think that rolling out single skill lines rather than new classes fits nicely into scaling back on development for the game and doing smaller projects. They don't have to do a full load of work to make a fully fleshed out class. Instead, they can make a skill line and lock it behind a Content Pass.

They can now do a bard skill line, and maybe even a martial "monk" skill line, in the future and they don't have to make a whole class around it.

Edit: for all we know, this unlocks "classes" they have considered in the past but lacked enough material to make three full skill lines for it.

I would absolutely love a Bardic skill line, if they went in that direction! I guess it doesn't need to be a class, but I just like the concept of classes, even with the dilution of identity with subclassing. Even though my Sorcerer currently has Warden and Arcanist skills, she's still a Sorcerer at heart, especially now with class-locked sets and grimoires.

But! Adding a (World? Guild?) Minstrel skill line, possibly even with a storyline attached to it (like Psijic) to level it up would be great!

PS: (Also, I'm not sure what a DnD Bard is like? Some people here mentioned illusion magic and thieving? Whatever, I've always just enjoyed the concept of magic through the medium of sound/singing/instruments. Tonal magic would work, too.)