I'm having a rather negative experience playing ESO in 2025.

Pixiepumpkin · June 24

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Koshka wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Bubosh wrote: »

Grab some popcorn play something else and enjoy watching steam player population charts of ESO. Kinda was rly funny to read all the statements of ppl defending subclassing before U46 came out, they told so many stories like "this will get ESO so many new players" and "this is the path eso has to go" and blablabla but Steamchart already now telling the opposite. You are not alone and this is the worst time of ESO sadly. I mean what company would knowingly divide its own player base by such change rather than getting a solution for all of us. "You belong" the biggest lie of U46 since it divided its own community that bad so ppl leave rather xD

You do realize that only a small portion of ESO players play on Steam, right? So it's not a real indicator of the actual player count.

You don't need the entire population if you just want to see trends.

And the trend on Steam charts for the last three months and six out of the last seven are increasing players. So I am not sure claiming subclassing is hurting the game is supported by the data you are referencing.

And every month over the prior year shows a decline.

Players/Customers are not stupid. They can see that Seasons of the Worm Cult has minimal investment into it vs previous chapters. All one has to do is compare Elsweyr, Summerset, Morrowind, High Isle, even Gold Road and you can see a massive difference in the effort put into the "chapter".

Seasons of the Worm Cult feels like the dev team has shrunken, which is not a far stretch when you consider that game studios move personal from one project to another and ZOS is working on a new mmorpg.

Player numbers will continue to drop. We will see an uptick during events/patch updates but overall the playerbase will continue to shrink unless the customers see real commitment, because Seasons of the Worm Cult does not feel like an A+ commitment/investment into ESO.

CalamityCat · June 24

Desiato wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

Subclassing is one of those things that if you don't engage in it, you don't feel welcome in groups so much. So I haven't done a dungeon/trial since just after update 46 hit PTS

I can't even imagine this.

I guess for dungeon trifectas, someone might care about subclassing builds, but outside of that subclassing is irrelevant in dungeons. GF pugs are full of bad builds because of low level skill lines while players level subclassing and I haven't observed anyone caring.

Trials are different because raid leads need to cover all bases in terms of passives, buffs, debuffs, etc... but that mainly applies to supports. Even then, many open trial groups are just happy to get any kind of tank or healer.

The DD role is far more flexible as there are a lot of different combinations that can result in good damage. Just because everyone seems to follow the latest trends doesn't mean they have to. Those who do want to do the most damage possible, even if it's just 5% more. This was also true in all previous ESO updates to varying degrees.

Yet I've been in plenty of open raids with no requirements. In a small trial guild I'm a member of composed of both tri and more casual players has no subclassing requirements at all. I have observed the same in many smaller open trial communities. We've been running with 2 pure necro tanks lately because who cares? Vet trials are easy anyway.

IMO, only a small percentage of the eso trial community has rigid requirements. They only usually manifest for tri/hm/speed farming groups which is totally fair.

In games like ESO, metas will always emerge. Most players want to do their best and thus will follow them. There will never be total balance. Go back to u45 and there was actually a more rigid structure.

I didn't want subclassing to happen either. But it did and I'm so glad I let go of the past and chose to embrace it because there is fun to be had.

Honestly I get that some are not bothered what I run. Certainly not on normal mode runs. I know the mechs and my builds enough that I can do those fine. I just have no reason to really do random normal dungeons or even normal trials now. I've done a few normal trials as the sole healer and loved it, but I know my builds do become an issue if I start vet trials with a new guild.

My main guild was running trials that were really chill and we had a genuinely great time joking around throughout. We all did our parses and planned to do vet runs later. Unfortunately players went inactive just before and after subclassing was announced, so the casual runs options aren't there for me currently. I often run as a healer so I don't think it's that unusual to feel the responsibility when a wipe can actually be your fault.

I get that subclassing has happened and I accept it. But I'm just not interested in it at all. I should be interested in making my annoying arc less of an arc, but I just don't have any interest in making new builds. Hence my switch to casual solo play where I can just chill and relax.

ImmortalCX · June 24

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

The laser show. Yes, much has already been said about it - but still, I hate it. I hate subclassing with all my heart. I’d even say PvE DPS gameplay has become outright toxic. I now prefer to play healers or tanks instead. And I have to admit: for support roles, subclassing doesn’t look nearly as bad as it does for DPS. Balance is in the worst place it's ever been in the history of the game.

I tried to enjoy myself. I thought I’d finally be able to play my main Nightblade again, since the meta now includes Arc/NB/Templar. But no - because the class scripting for the banner lets you use the beam even more frequently, which renders most other setups meaningless.

And you know what’s the worst part? The only real solution here is to overhaul a massive portion of the game’s skill lines - something ZoS will never do, because it would demand too much of them. Otherwise, any nerf to Fatecarver would cause massive collateral damage to the entire community - maybe even worse than Update 35. And honestly, I don’t see any way out. Subclassing is a problem in itself. Fatecarver is another problem on its own. And the new content seems tailor-made for Fatecarver.

Another issue: players fundamentally do not understand the importance of personal performance in group content. In pug raids, 50% of DPS are still heavy attackers - even though the Fatecarver meta isn’t that much more difficult, and in some ways is even easier than heavy attack builds. Another 45% are players trying to reinvent the wheel, creating off-meta builds that inevitably underperform. The rest? They’re the ones carrying 50-80% of the total raid DPS.

I used to think the combat system was just too complex for the average player and required a significant learning curve. But when top DPS now requires so little mechanical skill, I find playing off-meta almost disrespectful to the people who carry most of the raid. And it’s not like these are newbies - we’re talking about players with 2k+ CP. I can’t come up with an explanation for this that isn’t insulting to someone.

So yeah, some of you probably won’t understand why I both hate the current meta and insist that people follow it. I have no answer for you.

Next point, which ties into the last one: there’s no fun outside of scheduled raids. The game offers either very easy PvE content or scheduled raid content. I still have some dungeon achievements I’d love to finish - I really enjoy dungeons. But finding people capable of completing DLC hardmodes is nearly impossible. My friends either aren’t interested or are too hard to schedule with. And the majority of players only show up during raid hours.

ZoS has said they want to focus on repeatable content and that the game needs more variety. But in the three years since the content cadence changed, the only major addition has been IA and it’s suffocatingly dull, repetitive, and poorly balanced.

So, my typical ESO day consists of doing crafting writs, Endeavors, a couple of random normals on alts… and that’s it. Sometimes I seriously wonder why I log in at all. Why am I hoarding gold and materials? Why am I doing any of this, if I can only really enjoy the game two nights a week, for two hours each? If you're wondering why high-end players are leaving the game - this is it, 90% of the time.

The only thing that showed real promise for repeatable engagement in ESO has been PvP. But after subclassing launched, I’m afraid to even imagine what’s happening there now. I’ve never liked Cyrodiil - for me, it’s just a place where baiters farm new players, ball groups farm everyone else, and the heavy attack meta trolls the whole zone. I hate it.

I’ve always focused my PvP efforts on battlegrounds. And you know what? I love 8v8. Seriously. But poor matchmaking and how much a match depends on how many healbots your group has has completely turned me off from modern BGs. Tiny maps and game modes like Chaosball with transformation mechanics should honestly just be removed.

And that’s very characteristic of ZoS - one good decision, ten awful ones.

Solstice was awful. Just a tossed salad of old assets with a High Isle color filter slapped on. Yes, there were a few new models, but not enough to make a difference. And don’t even get me started on the main quest - short, predictable, and tonally like a Disney musical.
I genuinely don’t understand why I should be paying $50 for this. That’s double the price for half the content.
And the new “Akatosh Crate Mount” feature is outrageous.

Let’s be honest: this game is over 11 years old. In all that time, ESO never became a truly popular project. It was never a hype beast like some Chinese gachas, and it never became an immortal classic. The only time a surge of players arrived was during COVID - and because the word “Skyrim” was in the name of the chapter.

For too long, ESO was designed purely for box sales to new players. ZoS was very successful at that - 26 million original accounts. But it was a purely consumerist strategy, and it’s run dry. I think the genre itself - MMOs with hardcore content - is mostly a thing of the past. And you can’t keep a large playerbase engaged with just quest content forever.

So, yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised if ZoS decided a long time ago that ESO just wasn’t a long-term priority anymore.
Although some recent announcements and changes - like addon support for consoles - might suggest otherwise, to me it all feels more like a last-ditch effort.
I would love to be wrong about that.

I came to the same conclusion a few days ago.

We all know the game is winding down (ZOS has a new MMO absorbing its creative energies), and the zones post-Greymoor are less inspired than the zones from before.

I think this is the first time it became clear just how far and deep into maintenance the game is. Subclassing feels like a bone they threw the players who like theorycrafting and min/maxing their builds. The problem is there doesn't seem to have been any balance testing, likely because of budget. (Because every class can copy meta does it really need balance testing?)

For people who like crafting/housing and the daily grind, nothing much has changed. So that group of people should be relatively happy too.

So they have catered to the two extremes of players (theorycrafters and cosmetics/collectibles) but the actual game content, dungeons/trials/pvp doesn't matter.

Even just the aesthetic of having every player firing off green skills is bothersome. Ten years from now when someone asks if anyone remembers ESO, someone will say, "the game went out with a coating of green slime."

freespirit · June 24

My "off meta, non subclassed, 2500cp, boring HA build" carried a low cp player through normal Maareslock last night to get him his final tablet for the Hall of the Lunar Champion.

The same build solo's vet dungeons, do not presume to lump everyone under the same banner! 😕

Edit:- It's not an Arcanist either!

Desiato · June 24

Bubosh wrote: »

@Vonnegut2506 not even a month from 26k to 15k ish

That's not what it says. The peak column relates to the period in the month column on the same row. The table shows steadily increasing activity through 2025 except for March. 26k is the peak population on Steam the past 30 days.

And that's without getting into how players play. The Epic Games store is also very popular and probably most players buy from Bethesda as they are Bethesda customers. Skyrim was a sales phenom despite not being launched on Steam (if memory serves, I could be wrong about that). Of course Bethesda would prefer everyone buys from them.

I also believe that most players who have the understanding will eventually transition from Steam/Epic to the standalone launcher to remove a potential point of failure. I would bet there's a pretty consistent % of players who do this annually.

With that said, I think there is less interest in ESO this year. I think ZOS expected it because the annual update is presently very underwhelming. The 2025 content pass seemed to have a much lower budget than a traditional chapter, so it probably won't appeal to as many players. That doesn't mean the sky is falling.

sarahthes · June 24

Bubosh wrote: »

@Vonnegut2506 not even a month from 26k to 15k ish

You need to multiply these numbers by 5 to 10x to get the true number of daily peak players, because looking at steam only completely ignores people using the Zenimax launcher (which is the majority of pve players from everyone I've talked to in my 7 years of playing ESO), people using the Epic launcher, and people playing on console.

Also consider that peak is the number of people on at a single time. It says nothing about total unique logins for the day. From my experience on other games, total unique active players is usually 2-5x the number of concurrent logins.

You can use steam to look at trends, but you can infer nothing about total population from it.

Desiato · June 24

CalamityCat wrote: »

Honestly I get that some are not bothered what I run. Certainly not on normal mode runs. I know the mechs and my builds enough that I can do those fine. I just have no reason to really do random normal dungeons or even normal trials now. I've done a few normal trials as the sole healer and loved it, but I know my builds do become an issue if I start vet trials with a new guild.

If you can play the healer role decently, I'm certain that most casual vet trial guilds would have no problem with a pure class healer. If you send me a dm, I can point you in the direction of an open trial community that hosts open runs that would allow you to participate. But, they would want you to provide the same kind of group buffs that were expected from healers in vet trials pre-u46.

My main guild was running trials that were really chill and we had a genuinely great time joking around throughout. We all did our parses and planned to do vet runs later. Unfortunately players went inactive just before and after subclassing was announced, so the casual runs options aren't there for me currently.

This is life in a very casual raiding community. I have never seen an endgame community as chill as this one. But as a result, players are always coming and going. Tri/hm cores constantly fall apart or can't progress for this reason. I did a long stretch of vet trial gf pugs and as a result have joined countless trial discord communities and most fizzle out pretty quickly. Not because things are too hard though. It's because it's a casual game with a casual adult audience with rl responsibilities.

thedude33 · June 24

Time to take a break

Frayton · June 24

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Another issue: players fundamentally do not understand the importance of personal performance in group content. In pug raids, 50% of DPS are still heavy attackers - even though the Fatecarver meta isn’t that much more difficult, and in some ways is even easier than heavy attack builds. Another 45% are players trying to reinvent the wheel, creating off-meta builds that inevitably underperform. The rest? They’re the ones carrying 50-80% of the total raid DPS.

I used to think the combat system was just too complex for the average player and required a significant learning curve. But when top DPS now requires so little mechanical skill, I find playing off-meta almost disrespectful to the people who carry most of the raid. And it’s not like these are newbies - we’re talking about players with 2k+ CP. I can’t come up with an explanation for this that isn’t insulting to someone.

As a casual, it's not that I don't understand the importance of personal DPS in a group or that I find it difficult to do damage. It's just that I don't care.

ESO endgame is a neverending steep grind bc ZOS changes what skills/gear/classes are good so often that I just gave up trying to keep up. I hated redoing my builds every few months after ZOS just gutted the builds I just invested a lot of time, gold, and real money into making.

Darrett · June 24

Frayton wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Another issue: players fundamentally do not understand the importance of personal performance in group content. In pug raids, 50% of DPS are still heavy attackers - even though the Fatecarver meta isn’t that much more difficult, and in some ways is even easier than heavy attack builds. Another 45% are players trying to reinvent the wheel, creating off-meta builds that inevitably underperform. The rest? They’re the ones carrying 50-80% of the total raid DPS.

I used to think the combat system was just too complex for the average player and required a significant learning curve. But when top DPS now requires so little mechanical skill, I find playing off-meta almost disrespectful to the people who carry most of the raid. And it’s not like these are newbies - we’re talking about players with 2k+ CP. I can’t come up with an explanation for this that isn’t insulting to someone.

As a casual, it's not that I don't understand the importance of personal DPS in a group or that I find it difficult to do damage. It's just that I don't care.

ESO endgame is a neverending steep grind bc ZOS changes what skills/gear/classes are good so often that I just gave up trying to keep up. I hated redoing my builds every few months after ZOS just gutted the builds I just invested a lot of time, gold, and real money into making.

I think this is pretty representative of a lot of the player base. In theory I’m sure I could do reasonably decent damage, but I don’t really care that much to chase after an ever-evolving meta that requires me to drastically change the way I play my character.

There’s also the aspect of legitimately not understanding how people are able to get the numbers they claim, and when weighing out the pros and cons of devoting the level of time necessary to learn and implement, I’d rather just enjoy playing instead of creating a second job for myself. So I stay with my setup that does 34k DPS, which seems to be fine for everything I want to do.

If other players see it as “disrespectful” when we’re doing a random dungeon, then they can leave the group and start their own I suppose.

SeaGtGruff · June 24

I haven't gotten into subclassing yet, rarely engage with high-end group content such as trials, and generally don't engage in any content as part of a group other than playing alongside other players in overland or public dungeons, so I can't comment on how subclassing has affected grouping for group content.

But as far as playing alongside other players in public content, there do seem to be a lot of players who like to burn through mobs and bosses with Arcanist skills. However, I don't know how many of them are using subclassed characters versus pure Arcanists. What I do know is that I've seen players using Arcanist skills ever since the Arcanist class was introduced, since long before subclassing was introduced.

As I see it, the real problem is not the use of Arcanist skills in particular, or sublassing in general. Rather, it's in the way most players seem to want to burn through everything as quickly as possible. There are times when it can be a real blessing to have other players burn down a difficult boss much more quickly than I can solo it-- if I can even solo it. But there are also a lot of times when it can be a real curse to have other players burn down mobs and easy bosses when it isn't necessary or desired.

Case in point: We just had a daily endeavor to kill storm atronachs, and my go-to location for completing endeavors to kill air, flame, frost, or storm atronachs is Spellscar in Craglorn. But the groups of spellfiends and air atronachs don't always have an actively-spawned flame, frost, or storm atronach; instead, there is often a spot within the group that's marked by a red glow, a cold mist, or electrical sparks. If you approach the group and wait a few moments without attacking, a flame, frost, or storm atronach will appear at that spot. But if you just run up to the group and burn it down without waiting, the atronach will never appear. That is one situation where burning through everything as quickly as possible is a hindrance rather than a help, as it just makes it take much longer than necessary to kill the required number of flame, frost, or storm atronachs.

Today's daily endeavors includes one to kill void creatures, which is another good example of when it's more helpful to take ones time rather than just burning everything down. In the courtyard of the Library of Arkthzand is a shade colossus that counts as a void creature when you kill it. But if you don't kill it right away, it will repeatedly spawn two very weak void rots, which also count as void creatures. All you have to do is light-attack the shade colossus once, then wait a few seconds for it to summon two void rots, kill those, wait a few more seconds for it to summon two more void rots, kill those, and you're all fone with the endeavor. But it's nearly impossible to get the endeavor done that quickly because other players will run up and burn down the shade colossus before it ever has a chance to spawn any void rots.

This general attitude of wanting to burn everything down as quickly as possible is the real problem, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the Arcanist class or with subclassing. If the Arcanist class and subclassing were suddenly deleted from the game, the problem would still exist, because that's how a large number of players like to play games. And it really isn't the amount of DPS power that many players have which is the problem; rather, it's the complete lack of discrimination as to when it's best to use all of that power and when it would actually be better to use less power. The mindless, indiscriminate use of maximum DPS at all times is what needs to change, IMHO. And that's up to the players themselves to change, because it isn't caused by any particular game, or any particular class, or any particular feature. There's a reason why there's a website named "Massively Overpowered." That reason has nothing to do with ESO, the Arcanist class, or the subclassing feature, and everything to do with the way a large number of players like to play games (and apparently the way they think they're actually supposed to play games "correctly").

Islyn · June 24

MJallday wrote: »

long way of saying "i want an arc nerf"

SO long. I almost never TL;DR, but even I have limits.

Asikoo · June 24

Let me tell you about where I stand right now:

My favorite character, the Oaken Sorcerer… I can’t even look at him! There’s so much love in this character… too many hours, too many cosmetics... I truly see him as a "Sorcerer". True love here. But to hit 115k, I need a subclass, and I truly, truly hate that. It’s completely ridiculous! So when I log in… I just log right back out. I truly can’t even play this character for 15 minutes straight.

My Arcanist… I hate it so much right now. Not because of the Beam itself, but because of the numbers that stupid laser can put out. I feel like I’m forced to play this thing just to prove my DPS to others and to be "accepted." Right now, there’s nothing more important than numbers!!! So yeah… I log in, and log right back out.

My Healer… well, in PUGs it’s not bad. In fact, it’s the character I spend the most time on. But if I try to join harder content, suddenly my healer needs a subclass. Otherwise? I'm just not the healer they’re looking for anymore. So I log out… go back to Oaken Sorc… and start the whole cycle again. Login. Logout. Login. Logout....

I even tried creating a new character, replaying the whole story again, zones, quests, everything. I disabled all my addons and just played the game. But after level 15, I can beat everything using the same lev1 gear... so...
Where’s the fun!? Where’s the challenge!? Damn...

I feel completely lost in this game right now.
I love it, God, I love it so badly… and I hate every single second I spend looking at any of my characters.

DenverRalphy · June 24

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I tried to enjoy myself. I thought I’d finally be able to play my main Nightblade again, since the meta now includes Arc/NB/Templar. But no - because the class scripting for the banner lets you use the beam even more frequently, which renders most other setups meaningless.

Snipped everything before and after this portion as it's just filler to validate this very flawed statement.

So... you're saying anything not built around the beam is meaningless? Hard disagree. There's a lot more to a character than hitting the top dummy parse possible when even halfway down the rankings your dps is still obscene overkill for all content in the game.

CalamityCat · June 24

Desiato wrote: »

If you can play the healer role decently, I'm certain that most casual vet trial guilds would have no problem with a pure class healer. If you send me a dm, I can point you in the direction of an open trial community that hosts open runs that would allow you to participate. But, they would want you to provide the same kind of group buffs that were expected from healers in vet trials pre-u46.

Honestly right now I play so little that I wouldn't even dream of doing even a casual vet raid right now heh. But thanks for the offer!

This is life in a very casual raiding community. I have never seen an endgame community as chill as this one. But as a result, players are always coming and going. Tri/hm cores constantly fall apart or can't progress for this reason. I did a long stretch of vet trial gf pugs and as a result have joined countless trial discord communities and most fizzle out pretty quickly. Not because things are too hard though. It's because it's a casual game with a casual adult audience with rl responsibilities.

I think a lot of our problem was the better players got into doing trifectas and score pushing so much that they burned out and stopped wanting to run our trials. It happens in guilds, especially when just a couple are actually happy to lead the raids and organise events. I'm not sure how many games I've seen that happen in now

LadyGP · June 24

TLDR?

In all seriousness... the number one thing I can say with ANY game (but I notice I apply it to ESO more than others) is that if you're not feeling a game or it's causing you stress and not FUN or an escape from reality - then step away for 6 months or a year and come back.

In my experience... when I start getting burnt out I take a year break and come back. Post break I tend to stick around and play hardcore for another year or two... then some major change/rework happens...and I get burnt out again. Rinse repeat since the beta of this game for me.

TLDR - take a break..come back in 6 months.

Jaimeh · June 24

Thysbe wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

So yeah, some of you probably won’t understand why I both hate the current meta and insist that people follow it. I have no answer for you.

Nah - I understand you 100% and my feelings are exactly the same. I use my NB as main class now since I detest the banner, but honestly - its an Arcanist now, like all the others. As soon as you beam/tentacle it is an Arcanist and not a nightblade - period.

Yes, I agree. When you only have the NB skills on the bar passively to buff the Arc skills, and not use any of them actively, then you're no longer essentially playing NB. Last time I remember something similar, was certain stamsorc dps specs from years ago, where the meta was basically mostly weapon skills on the bar, and we weren't using a lot of the class skills (at least hurricane and surge were still there), but now it's worse from that perspective. And I also understand the part of 'hating the meta and following it'; the Arc with subclassing has the perfect kit of damage (plus healing and mitigation via the spammable and beam) with an easy rotation to boot.

Tenn60 · June 24

The real meta is rolling to spawn cheese and then light attack to spawn sweet rolls, don’t even need a second set! No I agree to a degree if your pushing for scores or trifectas then yeah I’d expect everyone to be on their best toon to do that. Outside of that I don’t really see how it’s an insult to anyone in the group if you’re not doing 160k dps or whatever the ceiling is right now. However I also know it depends on the group you’re running with and it depends what makes the game fun for each person. For people who are primarily end gamers and only do trials, unfortunately for lack of better words you’ve ’beaten’ the game and probably gone as far as you can fun wise. And I get that It’s not fair to ask you to change and make yourself weaker just to provide a challenge and outside of trials and dungeons most content you can blow through with crafted sets pretty easy. I wish they would make overland stuff more difficult to provide challenges outside of trials and dungeons. I also think not making every new trial have sets that are at least mostly “meta” really hurts end game people as well as replayabilty or driving people to want to run it a bunch to help people get gear. I’d take a break like others said and maybe when the rest of the zone opens check and see what’s going on with it and if you have any desire to come back then, it’s not a great answer but I don’t see them rolling back changes at this point. I enjoy other aspects of the game still a lot and love the people I play with and hope your able to find something else to enjoy as much as you probably have enjoyed eso at least in periods for a while

ArchMikem · June 24

I have a leveled Arcanist, but I don't actually play it and I straight up refuse to use the Tentacle spammable, simply because I detest shooting tentacles out of my arm. My Main is a StamBlade and I chose Storm Calling to subclass since now I can play a SpellSword just like I do in the singleplayer games.

Is the damage not good? Yes, but it just feels nice, plus it helps solidify more the fact my Stamina Nightblade is also a member of the Mage's Guild.

If everyone else wants to use the new Meta and Arcanist Beam everything, then be my guest. Just means I can be carried thru Dungeons if they're pumping out such high numbers. It's not my responsibility to join them.

JJBoomer · June 25

i see the eso community is still caught in the "i feel/think this way so that makes it true" mentality.

Diundriel · June 25

biggest issue in pvp is siege

; even if you just play solo they siege your ressource

https://youtu.be/l-0m9SAMASI?si=QdwHFePVu3k8YMzm

SerafinaWaterstar · June 25

Can I ask why people feel the game is winding down/in maintenance mode? I would prefer decent answers not just how they ‘feel’ about the game?

I am curious, as Zos is now owned by Microsoft, and they will be looking at the cost/benefit & profits of ESO, not players opinions on the game direction. If it keeps making MS money, they will keep it running. Why would they shut down an income stream? Especially when there is nothing else to take its place.

AzuraFan · June 25

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Can I ask why people feel the game is winding down/in maintenance mode? I would prefer decent answers not just how they ‘feel’ about the game?

I am curious, as Zos is now owned by Microsoft, and they will be looking at the cost/benefit & profits of ESO, not players opinions on the game direction. If it keeps making MS money, they will keep it running. Why would they shut down an income stream? Especially when there is nothing else to take its place.

I think that whether someone thinks ESO is winding down will depend on what activities they like to do in-game.

I don't think ESO is winding down in the sense that it will be shut down soon. The servers will be up for a while yet. But...

For me, ESO is winding down because of the decrease in new story content and other PvE activities that aren't dungeons and trials. Over time, I have less to do, to the point that I can now see "the end." The one chapter/one story DLC per year schedule was enough to keep me interested and busy, but now that we're down to one chapter spread over a year, and a chapter with less content than previous chapters, there won't be enough to keep me logging in every day.

So for me, the production of content I'm interested in is clearly winding down - unless the 2026 content pass has a lot more in it than the 2025 one does. But I'm not optimistic.

Heren · June 25

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Can I ask why people feel the game is winding down/in maintenance mode? I would prefer decent answers not just how they ‘feel’ about the game?

I am curious, as Zos is now owned by Microsoft, and they will be looking at the cost/benefit & profits of ESO, not players opinions on the game direction. If it keeps making MS money, they will keep it running. Why would they shut down an income stream? Especially when there is nothing else to take its place.

Agree with @AzuraFan - while not heading toward maintenance mode, there is an objective decline in the content released yearly ( if it's a significant decline or not, well, it's up for everyone to judge it ).

As for the question of 'If ESO generate money, why shut it down ?', it's a bit ( or way ) more complexe. I guess there are a lot of reasons to not continue supporting a game, even if it's still making some money, but I'm no expert on the matter.

However, a decline in content released, or rather in some content, might not mean a decline in monetization of the game, and thus in profit making from the game. If only a fraction of your playerbase do trials, cutting on trials development and release, while still being a decline in content released, might not hurt that much the profit making of the game.

On the other hand, if ( and apparently it is so ) the majority of the profit you're making is through the shop, well, developing and releasing less 'game' content while still developing and releasing shop content, while being a decline, might still be a ( very ) profitable strategy.

In the end, there is a balance to be found : developing and releasing enough content so players still, well, play the game, but more especialy so that they still want to buy things from the shop ( and obviously, developing and releasing enough shop content ).

- If the shop is enormous but there is nothing to do in the game itself, well, I doubt much players will buy stuff.

- If however the shop is big, and there is things to do in the game, maybe not an absolutely massive amount of things to do, maybe not as much new things to do as there where some years before, but still some things to do, you mau have enough playing hanging around so that they want to buy stuff from the shop, thus making you money.

I'm simplifying here, because I should say contentS rather than content : there is a lot of different things to do in ESO, a lot of different things to develop and support. Decline in some of these contents might not mean decline in all contents - and maybe it's even growth in some contents.

The release of new chapters is a simple ( and maybe a somewhat significant ) measurement of the direction of the game : it don't tell everything. And even if you do a year by year comparative of what's been added, which would be a quite long and tedious process I think, in might even not be that significant - for in the end, it's how the content is welcomed by the players, appreciated by them, how many players stay, how much they spend, which matter. At least for ZOS ( and Microsoft, but I don't think anyone in ZOS want to lose their job of course so for them the motivation for keeping ESO alive and thriving is very real ).

In the end, you have what you have in these forums : a lot of opinions, of feelings, sometime backed by some datas, but often it's just personal opinions based on personal experience, maybe on the experience of a close circle of friends. And all these opinions, it's just a fraction of the players.

Now, I know there are MMO who were shutdown, though I don't know the exact reasons, the exact state of them before shutdown - and on the other hand, I know there are MMO who are not really thriving who are still there, somewhat alive and obviously generating some money, enough so some development continue. My personal guess is that ESO won't be shutting down anytime soon, even if there is some decline in content released, but it's only a personal guess.

Wallar333 · June 25

Subclassing is a mess, thats true, but it had to be done cos of too many arguments between different class mains on forum, about nerfing/buffing certain skills. After over 10 years ZOS was UNABLE to balance this, so putting in subclassing was the easier way. Even now you can see which skill lines are actually OP, which skill lines are ppl taking. As was mentioned, fatecarvers are EVERYWHERE, games diversity is almost completely buried cos classes makes no sense anymore, theres literally no advantage of playing any class, cos youll pick 2 other skill lines anyway.

But the real problem of this games downfall is not PvE at all, and it NEVER was. This game is dying cos of PvP as well as theres literally NOTHING else to do than
1.dungeons - first time fun, then few times its good but after 10 times+ youre literally bored from the begging and trying to fly through mobs to get it over with
2. trials - with good group its FUN, with bad group HORRIBLE experience, and its usually the second one.
3. questing/achievements - For many ppl just boring, for me its fun, i like torturing myself like this, running around the whole game world just to get some useless achievement (im probably sick or something about this) .BUT even im getting bored after i completed all quests/zones.
4. PvP - JESUS CHRIST its the worst pvp experience in the history of MMORPG games EVER. This game truly deserves an award for this. Cyro is unplayable as well as its not fun at all, whatever you do, for some kids its maybe fun to play as ballgroups, but if any adult finds it funny, then he should think about his mental health. And BGs are also something, match-making is truly miraculous, mixing grouped players with random players, veterans 1500CP+ with newbies 1000CP - but the BEST thing about it, as the best thing in PvP here overall, is INSANE healing/shielding which is literally KILLING this games, and anyone with at least a few brain cells is running away from this games PVP.

SO, ppl are not leaving cos of subclassing or questing, graphics, most ppl are not even leaving this game cos of first 3 points at all. WE are leaving cos theres literally NO ENDGAME, theres nothing funny to do after completing the whole game, the last step is usually housing, but im bored to put any more carpets, torches, statues or whatever there ! (my house looks like a junkyard). But thats a different story.

ENDGAME in probably EVERY MMORPG is simply PvP, but here, in current state its UNPLAYABLE and NOT FUN AT ALL. ZOS did literally nothing for endgame for YEARS now, cos theire focusing on new zones/questing and other things, things which makes them money, theyre doing whats good for them, for what ppl pays them money. Money is the reason theyre doing this, which is ok, not prob with that, but if ZOS wants to show some RESPECT for their community, they MUST do something to keep veterans ONLINE. Rebalancing PvP seems like the best start. As there were discussions, vengeance test PVP was a million times more fun than ordinary PvP we have here, which is just sad, and it only shows how much in deep this games PvP is.

Except for PvP, community found its own way to have some fun, like auridon asseblies, using dumb emotes, insulting each other(in a funny way) etc. But its not the thing you could do the whole day, as its definitely not the thing for which youll stay online everyday for a couple of hours.

As mentioned, im asking myself the same question every day im logging in, why am i goin to play this, doing few random dungeons/writs endeavors and im happy its over and puff, im gone, i have no fun playing at all, cos theres nothing funny to do. I tried many times to have fun playing PvP, but every time ill try and push myself to try it, ill just remember why did i quit the last time. Actually im almost sure that over 50% of daily players online, are just ppl like me, raising numbers, but we actually play like offline mode, and game is just dying.

<edited out Cursing and Profanity>

barney2525 · June 25

Koshka wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Bubosh wrote: »

Grab some popcorn play something else and enjoy watching steam player population charts of ESO. Kinda was rly funny to read all the statements of ppl defending subclassing before U46 came out, they told so many stories like "this will get ESO so many new players" and "this is the path eso has to go" and blablabla but Steamchart already now telling the opposite. You are not alone and this is the worst time of ESO sadly. I mean what company would knowingly divide its own player base by such change rather than getting a solution for all of us. "You belong" the biggest lie of U46 since it divided its own community that bad so ppl leave rather xD

You do realize that only a small portion of ESO players play on Steam, right? So it's not a real indicator of the actual player count.

You don't need the entire population if you just want to see trends.

You DO need to know what percentage of the total population you are sourcing is. If only 20% or less of the total population is on Steam, those numbers do not indicate a particular trend.

Rungar · June 25

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Can I ask why people feel the game is winding down/in maintenance mode? I would prefer decent answers not just how they ‘feel’ about the game?

I am curious, as Zos is now owned by Microsoft, and they will be looking at the cost/benefit & profits of ESO, not players opinions on the game direction. If it keeps making MS money, they will keep it running. Why would they shut down an income stream? Especially when there is nothing else to take its place.

there are a number of reasons people think the game is winding down.

1) less content than previous years: The end of the chapter system which we were told would continue as long as players wanted it, but the last couple chapters didnt have the best uptake or great reviews and now they are no more.
2) reuse of assets: Its both normal and efficient development to reuse assets to a degree but eso has alot of reused assets. Alot. Consider the endless archive, subclassing, the new zone and there are many other examples. This just shows that the art and other teams are mostly working on the new project.
3) General lack of development for pvp for years and years.
4) stagnant design. Not alot of truely new things in the game for the last bit. They rarely change the formula for anything. dungeons for example.

These are things that are pretty obvious signs the game is in decline. Its not that the game doesnt sell well, it does quite well, but eso cannot retain players and i feel this is mostly due to lack of innovation, investment and stagnant/obsolete gameplay.

Trier_Sero · June 25

Subclassing is the worst thing that happened to game since I started playing 2 years ago! Now I just stroll through rnds becaus there is always a guy annihilating everything solo before anybody can even come close to it! What's even a point of dungeons anymore? Overland was and still is a total joke but now dungeons are too!

sarahthes · June 25

Rungar wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Can I ask why people feel the game is winding down/in maintenance mode? I would prefer decent answers not just how they ‘feel’ about the game?

I am curious, as Zos is now owned by Microsoft, and they will be looking at the cost/benefit & profits of ESO, not players opinions on the game direction. If it keeps making MS money, they will keep it running. Why would they shut down an income stream? Especially when there is nothing else to take its place.

there are a number of reasons people think the game is winding down.

2) reuse of assets: Its both normal and efficient development to reuse assets to a degree but eso has alot of reused assets. Alot. Consider the endless archive, subclassing, the new zone and there are many other examples. This just shows that the art and other teams are mostly working on the new project.

At one point a few years back there was a statement that the art team was booked 2 years in advance. I think it's more likely that the reason there's fewer new assets is to try to partially correct this and be more flexible on changes.

Changes to staffing levels based on the Microsoft umbrella layoffs last year may also be partially responsible.

I don't think it's because of reallocation of resources. I think it's just having to try to produce the same amount of content with fewer people.

Vonnegut2506 · June 26

Bubosh wrote: »

@Vonnegut2506 not even a month from 26k to 15k ish

So now, not only are you referencing data that doesn't show what you claim it shows, but you don't even know what the data is actually showing?