CHANGE CLASS TOKEN !!! WE NEED IT !!!

Gendizer · May 31

With the release of subclassing, I was hoping I could finally go back to playing my main character – a warden – in PvE content (I play as DPS). But wardens are still useless there; everyone just uses arcanists, nightblades, and templars/necros. Why not just let us change our main class for a character?

P.S. I’d switch my class to Nightblade since it’s used 99% of the time in both PvE and PvP anyway.

Vulkunne · May 31

It's my understanding Warden is getting some strong buffs from incoming update. I mean, yeah class change token would be nice, but I've found with every class there always seems to be at least one skill line I don't use so.

Could make it work.

tomofhyrule · May 31

The devs have said that a character's class is the one immutable part of their identity, buried so deep in the spaghetti code that they really couldn't easily change it. They also have said that Subclassing was their answer to that.

Now that doesn't mean that it'll never happen (or that they won't go make Subclassing even freer), but it would be a massive undertaking, and with Subclassing they may not thing it's worth the effort anymore.

ChaoticWings3 · May 31

As a warden main for several years I honestly would say their abilities are defiantly better then they were the last few years. Keep in mind that even with class change tokens the meta shifts literally all the time so what may be good now will probably be terrible 3 months from now. I say stick to the play style you like unless you do raiding and the raid lead requires a certain play style. But to be fair I can make a really good ice focused build with subclassing on my warden when its released that is both PVE and PVP.

Gendizer · May 31

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

As a warden main for several years I honestly would say their abilities are defiantly better then they were the last few years. Keep in mind that even with class change tokens the meta shifts literally all the time so what may be good now will probably be terrible 3 months from now. I say stick to the play style you like unless you do raiding and the raid lead requires a certain play style. But to be fair I can make a really good ice focused build with subclassing on my warden when its released that is both PVE and PVP.

I agree with PVP, but in PVE PDS the meta is Arcanist + NB + Templar/Necro. No one will just take a warden into a group for trial's trifectas

Gendizer · May 31

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said that a character's class is the one immutable part of their identity, buried so deep in the spaghetti code that they really couldn't easily change it. They also have said that Subclassing was their answer to that.

Now that doesn't mean that it'll never happen (or that they won't go make Subclassing even freer), but it would be a massive undertaking, and with Subclassing they may not thing it's worth the effort anymore.

Legacy code is a real problem

ChaoticWings3 · May 31

Gendizer wrote: »

ChaoticWings3 wrote: »

As a warden main for several years I honestly would say their abilities are defiantly better then they were the last few years. Keep in mind that even with class change tokens the meta shifts literally all the time so what may be good now will probably be terrible 3 months from now. I say stick to the play style you like unless you do raiding and the raid lead requires a certain play style. But to be fair I can make a really good ice focused build with subclassing on my warden when its released that is both PVE and PVP.

I agree with PVP, but in PVE PDS the meta is Arcanist + NB + Templar/Necro. No one will just take a warden into a group for trial's trifectas

Yeah, that kind of is the issue right now with raiding groups. Unfortunately there isn't much we can do at this point until they adjust the op combinations. We will probably be seeing this over the next few months (or the next 2 quarters because I'm pretty sure they understand the pandora's box they opened too). I'm still a bit frustrated on this end because if the numbers were crunched more over another month the divide would be less. I kind of went over my overall thoughts on the "How are we feeling about subclassing?" topic but here's a link to my overall thoughts there (its long): https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675994/how-are-we-feeling-about-subclassing/p13

Gendizer · May 31

Another option: I’m even willing to stay on my warden, but without the warden skill trees

Abstraqt · May 31

It's double xp, go level a different class..

agelonestar · May 31

I don’t think we’re ever going to see a Class Change Token.

However, I think a good compromise would be the ability to buy a token to start a new character at Level 50.

Once you’ve levelled all classes and played the game for 11 years, levelling a new alt is just an inconvenience. Skipping that and jumping right into the CP160 build stage would be worth a Crown or two.

Xarc · May 31

CHANGE CLASS TOKEN !!! WE NEED IT !!!

no we dont

TX12001rwb17_ESO · May 31

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said that a character's class is the one immutable part of their identity, buried so deep in the spaghetti code that they really couldn't easily change it. They also have said that Subclassing was their answer to that.

Now that doesn't mean that it'll never happen (or that they won't go make Subclassing even freer), but it would be a massive undertaking, and with Subclassing they may not thing it's worth the effort anymore.

If they can change 2 skill lines through sub-classing, they can change 3.

ADarklore · May 31

As others have said, there is a double XP event going on now, just level a new character.

And no, ZOS isn't going to add class change token when they already said Subclassing was their direct answer to requests for class change tokens. New characters are a great financial incentive for ZOS, as many people will buy the upgrades for skyshards, skill lines, and mount to make the process faster. Adding a simple (and cheaper) class change token would remove that financial boon for them.

Grizzbeorn · May 31

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If they can change 2 skill lines through sub-classing, they can change 3.

Not the same thing.
Sub-classing does not change your base class.

DenverRalphy · May 31

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The devs have said that a character's class is the one immutable part of their identity, buried so deep in the spaghetti code that they really couldn't easily change it. They also have said that Subclassing was their answer to that.

I saw where they stated subclassing was their answer for class change requests.

But I don't recall them ever stating that class change was impossible due to it being so enmeshed in the 'spaghetti' so to speak.

[edit] Not to say that I'm in favor of class changes to begin with. I'm just curious if the devs actually did make such a claim.

LalMirchi · May 31

There has been a lot of discussion about this subject including a vast thread. I'm curious as to what is new here?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/626114/class-change-tokens-request-number-73-276/p1

Dock01 · May 31

yaa !! i agree !

TX12001rwb17_ESO · May 31

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If they can change 2 skill lines through sub-classing, they can change 3.

Not the same thing.
Sub-classing does not change your base class.

And what exactly is your base class beyond 3 skill lines?

DenverRalphy · May 31

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If they can change 2 skill lines through sub-classing, they can change 3.

Not the same thing.
Sub-classing does not change your base class.

And what exactly is your base class beyond 3 skill lines?

Nothing at all really. Class choice at character creation doesn't set or provide tangible influence on a character in any way. If anything, Racial passives are more influential as they can affect XP gains, gold income, etc.. Yet they have no problem allowing race changes.

Grizzbeorn · May 31

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If they can change 2 skill lines through sub-classing, they can change 3.

Not the same thing.
Sub-classing does not change your base class.

And what exactly is your base class beyond 3 skill lines?

The skill lines are irrelevant in this conversation. Changing your class is not the same process internally as switching skill lines around.
Right now you can run all non-class skills if you want; your class is still what you chose at creation.
Your base class is hard-baked into your character when you make that choice.

SilverIce58 · May 31

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If they can change 2 skill lines through sub-classing, they can change 3.

Not the same thing.
Sub-classing does not change your base class.

And what exactly is your base class beyond 3 skill lines?

The ability to use class-specific styles, and gear for one. You might be able to change the skill lines, but your character will always have the moniker of Sorcerer or Warden.

DenverRalphy · May 31

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If they can change 2 skill lines through sub-classing, they can change 3.

Not the same thing.
Sub-classing does not change your base class.

And what exactly is your base class beyond 3 skill lines?

The skill lines are irrelevant in this conversation. Changing your class is not the same process internally as switching skill lines around.
Right now you can run all non-class skills if you want; your class is still what you chose at creation.
Your base class is hard-baked into your character when you make that choice.

How is it hard baked? Your chosen class at character creation has zero influence over your character whatsoever.

Other than it having been a choice, there's nothing else. It's just a moniker. Your choice in Race has more impact than class and you can change that no problem.

Grizzbeorn · May 31

DenverRalphy wrote: »

How is it hard baked?

Can anything you do change your class? No.
And ZOS has stated multiple times that THEM making it changeable is an intricate technical issue that cannot be easily solved.
(even sub-classing cannot change a character's base class.)
ERGO, hard-baked.

And I mean hard-baked as in it's an immutable attribute. It cannot be changed once you click-through at the end of Character Creation to create your character.

DenverRalphy · May 31

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

How is it hard baked?

Can anything you do change your class? No.
And ZOS has stated multiple times that THEM making it changeable is an intricate technical issue that cannot be easily solved.
(even sub-classing cannot change a character's base class.)
ERGO, hard-baked.

Could you kindly provide a source for the bolded statement? Because I'd be very interested to read about it. A cursory search doesn't seem to yield any hits for me.

Grizzbeorn · May 31

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

How is it hard baked?

Can anything you do change your class? No.
And ZOS has stated multiple times that THEM making it changeable is an intricate technical issue that cannot be easily solved.
(even sub-classing cannot change a character's base class.)
ERGO, hard-baked.

Could you kindly provide a source for the bolded statement? Because I'd be very interested to read about it. A cursory search doesn't seem to yield any hits for me.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

DenverRalphy · May 31

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

How is it hard baked?

Can anything you do change your class? No.
And ZOS has stated multiple times that THEM making it changeable is an intricate technical issue that cannot be easily solved.
(even sub-classing cannot change a character's base class.)
ERGO, hard-baked.

Could you kindly provide a source for the bolded statement? Because I'd be very interested to read about it. A cursory search doesn't seem to yield any hits for me.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

Yeah, that's from over 2 years ago. Long before they were able to provide subclassing. I want to see something a bit more recent.

As well, you're overlooking the "at this time" and "would take a significant amount of time" portions of that statement. Neither of which said it couldn't be done, and which with the advent of subclassing, seems to have been rendered obsolete. "At this time" seems to have come and gone.

Defatank · May 31

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

How is it hard baked?

Can anything you do change your class? No.
And ZOS has stated multiple times that THEM making it changeable is an intricate technical issue that cannot be easily solved.
(even sub-classing cannot change a character's base class.)
ERGO, hard-baked.

Could you kindly provide a source for the bolded statement? Because I'd be very interested to read about it. A cursory search doesn't seem to yield any hits for me.

Post about class changing here > https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7805018#Comment_7805018

Grizzbeorn · May 31

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

How is it hard baked?

Can anything you do change your class? No.
And ZOS has stated multiple times that THEM making it changeable is an intricate technical issue that cannot be easily solved.
(even sub-classing cannot change a character's base class.)
ERGO, hard-baked.

Could you kindly provide a source for the bolded statement? Because I'd be very interested to read about it. A cursory search doesn't seem to yield any hits for me.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

Yeah, that's from over 2 years ago. Long before they were able to provide subclassing. I want to see something a bit more recent.

As well, you're overlooking the "at this time" and "would take a significant amount of time" portions of that statement. Neither of which said it couldn't be done, and which with the advent of subclassing, seems to have been rendered obsolete. "At this time" seems to have come and gone.

Whatever you say. Have a good day.

Defatank · May 31

Just now seen your post about wanting a more recent stance. I don't believe there is one more recent than 2023 as I went through dev tracker to find that post. We will need to get an updated stance from @ZOS_Kevin or @ZOS_GinaBruno as they've been the ones to state that. I would imagine the stance is still the same though... Kevin / Gina confirm?

Katahdin · May 31

Its not happening.
In the amount of time people spend complaining about it, you can level one of every class.
Its not hard to do once you have one character at CP level another character to 50 is nothing

freespirit · May 31

@DenverRalphy I suspect your feelings that "difficulty" and "time taken" are probably not too far off the mark.

There has indeed been a severe lack of comment from ZoS about their reasons since Gina's comments in 2023.

I did find this article from around that time quite interesting reading, especially from a PR standpoint which I had not considered but actually makes sense!

https://eso-hub.com/en/news/why-eso-wont-have-class-change-tokens-any-time-soon