Why is there even a level 1-50?

Erickson9610 · May 9

Rexicom wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Rexicom wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There is an achievement for reaching Level 50 in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, called "Master". That's likely why ESO's leveling system stops at 50.

You get an achievement for hitting a milestone, but leveling doesn't end there. One title with an achievement doesn't make it a staple or a tradition.

Something happens when you reach Level 50 in both Skyrim and in ESO. That means it's a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Ah yes, the entire Elder Scrolls Franchise: ESO and SKyrim, nothing else.

I never said it was in all of the TES games. It started with Skyrim and probably will continue into future TES games.

You said it was a staple of the Elder scrolls franchise. Either you meant it was in all or most of the games, or you consider the franchise to be only skyrim and eso, like I said.

No, I mean that it's a trend in at least 2 consecutive mainline games, and that means it could continue.

It's not in most of the games and the franchise has more than just ESO and Skyrim. But, I think something will happen at Level 50 in TES VI.

twisttop138 · May 9

ApoAlaia wrote: »

It is somewhat tedious to me, but in my case is because I have done it 32 times so far (along with all the skill line/skill/morph lvling, skyshard picking, dungeon skill point collecting etc.)

Said that I am going to call it self-inflicted so a poor reason IMO to ask for something to be removed or drastically reworked.

However I think the absolutely wild amount of crafting materials/recipes between lvl1 and CP160 could do with some streamlining (to put it mildly), more so when so much that we ask for is rejected because of 'database strain' yet we have the all of the following:

- Alchemy: 16 solvents between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Blacksmithing: 9 ores and 9 ingots between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Clothing: 9 raw and 9 refined materials between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Jewellery: 4 dusts and 4 ounces between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.
- Provisioning: All 'base game' food recipes are tripled, inherited from pre-one tamriel times, making it hundreds of recipes between lvl1 and CP149.
- Enchanting: 30 runes between lvl1 and CP159 and a bewildering amount of 'recipes' due to the nature of the skill.
- Woodworking: 9 raw and 9 refined materials between lvl1 and CP149 and associated 'recipes'.

Particularly egregious to me is all the resources invested on CP1 to CP149 that will be experienced once per account.

Streamlining this into let's say one for lvl1 to 50 and one for CP1 to 149 would relieve a substantial amount of 'database strain' that could be used elsewhere.

Same with trait/style materials that still to this day 'drop' as 'dusts' or whatever the 1/10th is called for each.

We have heard time and time again that 'seemingly small things' have a huge impact on database strain, well, that above doesn't seem 'small' to me at all so it must impose a huge burden, disproportionate to how useful they are.

I'm so on board with this. But this is the reason they can sell the craft bag, which in part keeps the lights on so I don't see that changing.

For the OP. Sell a level 50 token. Everyone wins. The game makes money, people that wanna level traditional can and people that don't wanna bother can just grab a token. Bing bang boom.

thegreeneso · May 9

It's a relic of the past from times before the CP system and One Tamriel. It probably wouldn't exist if the game came out today but it's too small of an issue to warrant touching, I suppose.

smallhammer · May 9

They should at least get rid of the opportunity to assign CP points to chars under lvl 50.

Rexicom · May 9

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Rexicom wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Rexicom wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There is an achievement for reaching Level 50 in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, called "Master". That's likely why ESO's leveling system stops at 50.

You get an achievement for hitting a milestone, but leveling doesn't end there. One title with an achievement doesn't make it a staple or a tradition.

Something happens when you reach Level 50 in both Skyrim and in ESO. That means it's a staple of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

Ah yes, the entire Elder Scrolls Franchise: ESO and SKyrim, nothing else.

I never said it was in all of the TES games. It started with Skyrim and probably will continue into future TES games.

You said it was a staple of the Elder scrolls franchise. Either you meant it was in all or most of the games, or you consider the franchise to be only skyrim and eso, like I said.

No, I mean that it's a trend in at least 2 consecutive mainline games, and that means it could continue.

It's not in most of the games and the franchise has more than just ESO and Skyrim. But, I think something will happen at Level 50 in TES VI.

Ok, but then it's not a staple of the ES franchise, it's more like a trend.

tamedbeast · May 9

Just to clarify, I’m not saying progression itself is bad. Skill lines, Champion Points, gear, achievements, those all make sense. They’re tied to gameplay goals and let you build your character how you want. But levels 1–50 specifically feel outdated and unnecessary at this point in ESO’s lifecycle.

They don’t represent challenge, they don’t gate meaningful content (thanks to One Tamriel), and most players just bypass them with Dolmen zerging or XP scroll stacking. It's not playing the game, it's just rushing to unlock endgame systems.

And honestly, it creates friction for alt creation. Want to try a new build or subclass combo? Cool, you’re stuck grinding the same XP path again before you can even start building your real character. And since skill lines and morphs still require XP anyway, even without 1–50, you’d still have a natural sense of progression.

So yeah, I’m genuinely asking: why not just skip straight to CP on new characters and let us level our skills organically through actual gameplay? The old level system just feels like legacy bloat at this point. If they’re open to overhauls like subclassing and scribing, maybe it’s time to rethink this too.

freespirit · May 9

A different take on leveling.....

Run around Coldharbour(tutorial) until level 6.

Certify all crafts so dailies become available.

If on PC use Beameup Addon to jump around the world unlocking wayshrines... always good for a few levels.

Concentrate on researching Jewelry Traits because Jewelry Master Writs only require trait knowledge not motif knowledge and they are usually cheap to buy if you don't already have a stock of them.

Time this to coincide with a double xp event, eat a 150% xp boost, mass craft master writs and hand them in!

Did this during Anniversary Event went from lvl 28 to cp184 in less than an hour!

Ofc this presumes this is an Alt and you already have the mats and/or gold to allow doing it and friends/guildies to populate your Beameup list for traveling.

Also way easier on PC because of addons for multi-crafting writs. Should be noted handing in multiple writs too fast will likely cause your game to crash!! 😁

I'm not saying this is instant just that it is a different way of skinning the same beast.

Edit:-- To add this was done on a secondary account that had only been used for crafting writs, hadn't hit lvl 50 and the mats were supplied by my other accounts but would still work on any alt.

tomofhyrule · May 9

I must be weird, since I actually enjoy the 'new character levelling' process.

I get that there are a lot of people who just want to log in for the first time and get a max-level template so they can get into their game without the prepwork. But there are also people who see that prepwork as the game itself.

I make it a point to not assign CP until my characters reach 50. Until then, I just use the scavenged gear and do the simple stuff. It's fun to sometimes step back and play like it's the first time again. That's really why what I want most is to have a new Class - we've got all redone tutorial and starter zones, and I really really want an excuse to go back and experience it again with a completely fresh set of skills.

I personally would have no problem if they just made a PTS template purchaseable in the Crown Store for those people who hate all the levelling and just want to go in and play. However, I can see how that'd easily lead to "P2W!" complaints, and also goes against the idea of an MMO in trying to keep people coming back if they can just have a 3600 character with a button press (or a credit card swipe) and then never need to do anything again.

But the answer is definitely not "screw the new players, let's all be endgame instantly!"

allochthons · May 9

I agree with the folks saying that 1-50 is an extended tutorial. And a needed one. I was definitely still learning a LOT in the low hundreds CP on my first character. It also gates dungeons and trials, which is a good thing for new players.

Absolutely let experienced players buy a token for alts. That's reasonable. And continue to let them use their earned CP on their low level alts.
But this is an extremely complicated games, with intricate interlocking systems that have a loooooong learning curve. Making all content and all gear available to a new player on day 1 would be even more overwhelming than this game already is to new players.

But the comment on all the different levels of materials and recipes is right on. Get rid of those, please!

Bias alert: I keep a few <50 toons for running random normals, so I benefit from the current system.

tamedbeast · May 9

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I must be weird, since I actually enjoy the 'new character levelling' process.

I get that there are a lot of people who just want to log in for the first time and get a max-level template so they can get into their game without the prepwork. But there are also people who see that prepwork as the game itself.

I make it a point to not assign CP until my characters reach 50. Until then, I just use the scavenged gear and do the simple stuff. It's fun to sometimes step back and play like it's the first time again. That's really why what I want most is to have a new Class - we've got all redone tutorial and starter zones, and I really really want an excuse to go back and experience it again with a completely fresh set of skills.

I personally would have no problem if they just made a PTS template purchaseable in the Crown Store for those people who hate all the levelling and just want to go in and play. However, I can see how that'd easily lead to "P2W!" complaints, and also goes against the idea of an MMO in trying to keep people coming back if they can just have a 3600 character with a button press (or a credit card swipe) and then never need to do anything again.

But the answer is definitely not "screw the new players, let's all be endgame instantly!"

I think I get what you're saying, but I'm genuinely not sure what you mean by “prepwork.” If someone wants to play the game and start working on skill lines, doing quests, and building their character, they’re still doing all of that even without levels 1–50. Removing that arbitrary level range doesn’t mean skipping content, it just means cutting out the meaningless XP bar that doesn’t gate anything anymore.

You mention scavenging gear and doing simple stuff, that’s great, and you can still do exactly that at CP1. Nothing about removing 1–50 stops people from taking it slow, exploring starter zones, or playing without assigning CP right away if that’s their choice.

The issue is that for players who’ve already done it multiple times, 1–50 is just busywork. It’s not “screwing new players” , it’s about giving experienced players a smoother on-ramp to the parts of the game that actually matter, especially for alts. New players would still start fresh; this idea is about optional streamlining for people who’ve already been through the motions 10+ times. Let people play how they want, "that" should be the MMO ideal.

tamedbeast · May 9

allochthons wrote: »

I agree with the folks saying that 1-50 is an extended tutorial. And a needed one. I was definitely still learning a LOT in the low hundreds CP on my first character. It also gates dungeons and trials, which is a good thing for new players.

Absolutely let experienced players buy a token for alts. That's reasonable. And continue to let them use their earned CP on their low level alts.
But this is an extremely complicated games, with intricate interlocking systems that have a loooooong learning curve. Making all content and all gear available to a new player on day 1 would be even more overwhelming than this game already is to new players.

But the comment on all the different levels of materials and recipes is right on. Get rid of those, please!

Bias alert: I keep a few <50 toons for running random normals, so I benefit from the current system.

I see where you're coming from, and I agree, ESO has a lot of systems, and the learning curve can be steep. But that’s exactly why I question whether levels 1–50 are still necessary. If the goal is to teach players, then let’s actually focus on teaching them mechanics, skills, synergies, and game systems, not just dragging them through an XP grind that most people bypass with Dolmens or XP scrolls anyway.

And while I get that 1–50 used to gate dungeons and trials, the reality is that the CP system already does most of the heavy lifting now. Plus, we already allow CP accounts to use their Champion bonuses on lowbies, which kind of breaks the “level gating” argument to begin with. If we're okay giving alts access to CP passives before level 50, why not just let players start at CP1 and skip the fluff?

I’m not saying day-one players should be handed everything. I’m saying players who’ve already leveled multiple toons should have the option to skip what has effectively become a chore. And I completely agree. Get rid of the endless tiers of crafting mats and recipes. That system's more confusing than the leveling ever was.

SkaiFaith · May 9

OP, I agree with you.
I have 12 CP characters all levelled through Dolmen's grind. I would like to create more characters if the level 1-50 grind wouldn't be there, but as it stands I am not incentivized to do so. I'm pushed away by hours of boredom before I can even start to really use the new character.

The thing is: right now, after grinding to level 50 you still have to go amass all the necessary skill points and scripts - I would very much enjoy farming skill points and such if I wouldn't be burned out by the time I get there.

"But you could take your time"... If I have an idea for a character and I want to experiment it I don't want to delay it by 20 playing hours. Vet players keep thousands of Transmutes just for that...

If level 1-50 can't be taken away, we should definitely have the possibility to buy/have a skip.

SirGabenOfSteamia · May 9

I'm pretty sure it's just leftovers from when the game used to have level-specific zones.

Level 1-50 for your starter alliance zones.
Veteran 1-7 through the second.
And then 8-14 for the 3rd.

It made more sense to me when they were called veteran ranks before because I personally associated them with people who had at least beaten their respective alliance.

Renato90085 · May 9

I think OP mean is why we need have 1-50,not only cp , we can remove first 400k exp quick cp 160.and use cp1-160 made a new tutorial?
I don't know Maybe Zos is bigest nbrp exp farm seller

kargen27 · May 9

DenverRalphy wrote: »

After 1 Tamriel landed and Champion levels landed (was that simultaneous? so long I forget), levels 1-50 basically became a longer than normal tutorial.

And now it's being made even more irrelevant with the introduction of subclassing. New players are gonna just love the grind to 50, then instead of only having CP to worry about they're gonna have to simultaneously focus attention on leveling up another class skill or two.

It's going to become more difficult keeping new players motivated to stay the course.

New players is exactly why the 1-50 levels need to remain. They provide a since of accomplishment and harder content becomes available as they level. At a certain level you get to join PvP, get your 2nd bar, gain access to progressively more difficult dungeons, undaunted quests and more. You get to assign attributes as you level and if you play the game instead of doing the dolman grind you start collecting the skill points you need.
New players have an advantage over existing players with the creation of subclassing because they can begin working on those alternate class skills as they are rising in rank. It can happen along with everything else. For established characters subclasses might mean having to go back and do stuff specifically for increasing the subclass making it feel more the grind.

New players are going to be fine.

kargen27 · May 9

tamedbeast wrote: »

And honestly, it creates friction for alt creation. Want to try a new build or subclass combo? Cool, you’re stuck grinding the same XP path again before you can even start building your real character. And since skill lines and morphs still require XP anyway, even without 1–50, you’d still have a natural sense of progression.

As you need the XP anyway how does having the added accomplishment of levels hurt? You admit to needing to play/grind depending on personal preference anyway so taking away 1-50 does nothing but take away an added and easily seen sense of accomplishment.

tamedbeast · May 9

kargen27 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

After 1 Tamriel landed and Champion levels landed (was that simultaneous? so long I forget), levels 1-50 basically became a longer than normal tutorial.

And now it's being made even more irrelevant with the introduction of subclassing. New players are gonna just love the grind to 50, then instead of only having CP to worry about they're gonna have to simultaneously focus attention on leveling up another class skill or two.

It's going to become more difficult keeping new players motivated to stay the course.

New players is exactly why the 1-50 levels need to remain. They provide a since of accomplishment and harder content becomes available as they level. At a certain level you get to join PvP, get your 2nd bar, gain access to progressively more difficult dungeons, undaunted quests and more. You get to assign attributes as you level and if you play the game instead of doing the dolman grind you start collecting the skill points you need.
New players have an advantage over existing players with the creation of subclassing because they can begin working on those alternate class skills as they are rising in rank. It can happen along with everything else. For established characters subclasses might mean having to go back and do stuff specifically for increasing the subclass making it feel more the grind.

New players are going to be fine.

I get the point about new players needing structure, but structure isn't the same thing as dragging people through an outdated level system. You can still teach mechanics, introduce features, and reward progression without making players slog through 1–50 every time they roll a new character.

Also, most of what you mentioned, PvP access, second bar, attribute points, skill unlocks, could easily be tied to milestones, not arbitrary character levels. Games do this all the time. If anything, milestones are more intuitive than “level 15 unlocks this, level 30 unlocks that,” especially in a game where CP accounts already skip half the friction by default.

As for XP, sure, we all need it. But if I still have to grind XP to level skills, weapon lines, guilds, and subclasses, what’s the point of also needing to fill a generic 1–50 bar? It doesn’t add challenge, it adds redundancy. It’s not about removing progression; it’s about streamlining it so returning players aren’t stuck repeating the same tutorial loop over and over just to get their builds online.

Let new players keep the onboarding experience. But give veterans the option to skip it once it’s no longer meaningful. That’s not taking away accomplishment, it’s respecting our time.

TaSheen · May 9

SilverBride wrote: »

tamedbeast wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like 1-50 is a pointless grind that should just be removed.

I hope that never happens! I absolutely love playing low level characters and take my time getting to level 50 whenever I start a new character. And I don't apply my CP until I reach 50.

I agree. Or I did when I was still playing. Except I always assigned the green CP points on low levels....

SeaGtGruff · May 9

Xarc wrote: »

The levels are a bit of a tradition in Elder Scrolls

Indeed, levels 1-to-whatever are a tradition in just about all CRPGs, which is why they're a tradition in The Elder Scrolls.

Desiato · May 9

I understand why 1-50 continues to exist, but I think some aspects of it needs to be streamlined.

The big things for me are crafting materials. There doesn't need to be a new material required every 5-10 levels. Making low level gear is SO TEDIOUS for this reason. Especially glyphs.

So I propose only having one base crafting material for levels 1-50, and another for CP characters and get rid of the rest.

We just need Raw Hide and Rubedo, for example, and not everything else in between.

Also, think 1-50 gear levels should be segmented in 5-10 level chunks. For example all gear dropped levels 1-9 could be level 1 gear, all gear dropped levels 10-19 could be level 10 gear, and so on. This would greatly reduce tedium.

This depth made sense when ESO was new and 1-50 was intended to take players weeks or months, but doesn't make sense when players can gain multiple levels just by completing a random dungeon.

DenverRalphy · May 9

kargen27 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

After 1 Tamriel landed and Champion levels landed (was that simultaneous? so long I forget), levels 1-50 basically became a longer than normal tutorial.

And now it's being made even more irrelevant with the introduction of subclassing. New players are gonna just love the grind to 50, then instead of only having CP to worry about they're gonna have to simultaneously focus attention on leveling up another class skill or two.

It's going to become more difficult keeping new players motivated to stay the course.

<snip>
New players have an advantage over existing players with the creation of subclassing because they can begin working on those alternate class skills as they are rising in rank. It can happen along with everything else.
<snip>

Actually no, they can't. They first have to level a character to 50 to unlock the quest that enables subclassing. And then they will have to level the sub-class skill line to 50 at double the skillpoint cost, and at half the speed of the base class skill leveling speed. New players are starved for skillpoints as it is, so it will be another grind to get the skillpoints to pay the double skill point cost. And they have to do that on top of leaning into and learning the CP system.

I don't foresee new players enjoying that at all.

kargen27 · May 10

DenverRalphy wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

After 1 Tamriel landed and Champion levels landed (was that simultaneous? so long I forget), levels 1-50 basically became a longer than normal tutorial.

And now it's being made even more irrelevant with the introduction of subclassing. New players are gonna just love the grind to 50, then instead of only having CP to worry about they're gonna have to simultaneously focus attention on leveling up another class skill or two.

It's going to become more difficult keeping new players motivated to stay the course.

<snip>
New players have an advantage over existing players with the creation of subclassing because they can begin working on those alternate class skills as they are rising in rank. It can happen along with everything else.
<snip>

Actually no, they can't. They first have to level a character to 50 to unlock the quest that enables subclassing. And then they will have to level the sub-class skill line to 50 at double the skillpoint cost, and at half the speed of the base class skill leveling speed. New players are starved for skillpoints as it is, so it will be another grind to get the skillpoints to pay the double skill point cost. And they have to do that on top of leaning into and learning the CP system.

I don't foresee new players enjoying that at all.

Thanks, did not realize this as I don't pay much attention to stuff until it goes live. And why would a new player not enjoy this? Sure not right off but it does create a sense of progression and gives a steady stream of goals to accomplish. It is silly to think new players need everything immediately. A new player can't jump right in on hard mode trials but that doesn't mean trials are bad for the game.
They will get the skills as they get the skill points just by playing the game. I understand why some players don't want to have to level up multiple characters but it is disingenuous to argue it somehow hurts new players because players with multiple characters don't want to take the time to level those characters.

tsaescishoeshiner · May 10

This is bringing up a lot of questions for me.

Why is there space in between the wayshrine and the crafting stations, or space between one character in a quest and another? Why are they not just right on top of each other so we don't waste our time?

Why do we have to sit through a battleground instead of just hitting queue and instantly getting the rewards?

Why are there waves of enemies before bosses? Why do bosses have health to get through before their mechanics?

Why are all motifs, furnishing plans not fully unlocked from the start? Why do we have to progress skill lines at all?

Why bother writing words if a sentence is just going to end in punctuation?

I won't offer any plausible reasons for why these space-fillers could conceivably exist, but I just can't imagine why no one has asked these questions before.

Xarc · May 10

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

several things:
The levels are a bit of a tradition in Elder Scrolls games.

Name the TES titles (other than ESO) that have a level 1-50 structure.

TES III Morrowind
TES IV oblivion
TES V Skyrim
?

DenverRalphy · May 10

Xarc wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

several things:
The levels are a bit of a tradition in Elder Scrolls games.

Name the TES titles (other than ESO) that have a level 1-50 structure.

TES III Morrowind
TES IV oblivion
TES V Skyrim
?

Morrowind - Nope
Oblivion - Nope
Skyrim - There's a trophy for hitting 50 but still nope.

Xarc · May 10

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

several things:
The levels are a bit of a tradition in Elder Scrolls games.

Name the TES titles (other than ESO) that have a level 1-50 structure.

TES III Morrowind
TES IV oblivion
TES V Skyrim
?

Morrowind - Nope
Oblivion - Nope
Skyrim - There's a trophy for hitting 50 but still nope.

If you compare it to TESO, it's the same thing.
Leveling up to 50 and then continuing to level, so that's exactly it.
So YES,
YES,
and YES

hiyde · May 10

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

why even have any grinding? why not jsut give everyone CP 3600 characters with infinite mats and access to ALL gear and resources?

That's a start @wolfie1.0. but...ideally It'd be the most player-friendly if we didn't have to install or log in. Just have our characters send us TikTok video links of their adventures...

wolfie1.0. · May 10

hiyde wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

why even have any grinding? why not jsut give everyone CP 3600 characters with infinite mats and access to ALL gear and resources?

That's a start @wolfie1.0. but...ideally It'd be the most player-friendly if we didn't have to install or log in. Just have our characters send us TikTok video links of their adventures...

😆 😂 😆

Grizzbeorn · May 10

Because leveling a character has always been a fundamental aspect of playing a RPG.

You saying that isn't a valid reason doesn't make it an invalid reason.

icapital · May 10

SkaiFaith wrote: »

OP, I agree with you.
I have 12 CP characters all levelled through Dolmen's grind. I would like to create more characters if the level 1-50 grind wouldn't be there, but as it stands I am not incentivized to do so. I'm pushed away by hours of boredom before I can even start to really use the new character.

The thing is: right now, after grinding to level 50 you still have to go amass all the necessary skill points and scripts - I would very much enjoy farming skill points and such if I wouldn't be burned out by the time I get there.

"But you could take your time"... If I have an idea for a character and I want to experiment it I don't want to delay it by 20 playing hours. Vet players keep thousands of Transmutes just for that...

If level 1-50 can't be taken away, we should definitely have the possibility to buy/have a skip.

why do some players keep trying to make this like WoW where they completely streamlined out the whole journey part of the MMO experience. this isn't the game for that where you are fast-tracked to "end game".