xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

Yup it's one of the contributing factors that has driven me away from PvP in it's entirety.

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

This is part of why I laugh when they mention "balance" or reigning back on "over tuned" skills or anything of that sort. This thing gets introduced by those same people. This is one of the hardest hitting non ultimate single target skills in game (crystal fragments proc being the other) and now anyone that isn't playing Werewolf can fire two in a row.

Actually, you will be able to use bow & crystal fragments in a combo + some proc sets... yikes. What worries me is that for sure both of those skills will get nerfed. But not because they are (or are not) OP or broken. Those will be nerfed so that the brand new shiny system won't get nerfed. It is subclassing that is causing all of those issues, but since it is "new" it can't be balanced. It is nerf-proof for at least 1 year. And after 1 year all skills we use will look like what we have seen in vengeance PvP mode...

danko355 wrote: »

Imagine warden/templar/dk abominations running around with 40-50k health, and small scale will go even crazier with combining everything for tankiness + short synced burst window. How do you kill them?

It homogenizes the meta into either two shot Assassin NB derivatives, or zero damage unkillable bricks. Remove the insane two shot spam, and now normal balanced brawler builds are effective again.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

This is part of why I laugh when they mention "balance" or reigning back on "over tuned" skills or anything of that sort. This thing gets introduced by those same people. This is one of the hardest hitting non ultimate single target skills in game (crystal fragments proc being the other) and now anyone that isn't playing Werewolf can fire two in a row.

Actually, you will be able to use bow & crystal fragments in a combo + some proc sets...

You won’t, because dark magic is garbage

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

Imagine warden/templar/dk abominations running around with 40-50k health, and small scale will go even crazier with combining everything for tankiness + short synced burst window. How do you kill them?

It homogenizes the meta into either two shot Assassin NB derivatives, or zero damage unkillable bricks. Remove the insane two shot spam, and now normal balanced brawler builds are effective again.

No they are not, because there are so many potential delayed burst combinations utilising Sorc's curse, Necros' Blastbones, Deep Fissure, etc., that people will tank up anyway to avoid being one-shotted without possibility to do anything. You can dodge-roll or block the bow proc, it's slow. I'm pretty sure it won't be the main problem, delayed unavoidable burst is way worse.

Delayed burst died out half a decade ago

Not really, Flames of Oblivion was an integral part of the DK Meta.

Deep Fissure is the best skill in PvP imo and Merciless has needed a nerf for a while.

Ardent + Animal + Gravelord could give Assassination a run for its money. But maybe not.

Why do they need it to be easy double. Why can they use on OP mechanic like from frags. Just have it go to 5 like normal then have a chance from other skills activation to give instant activation.

ZOS addressed PVE's big concerns with this week's notes.

As usual, PvP concerns are like Rush of Agony: still unaddressed and thus still making ESO PvP an exercise in trying one's patience.

silky_soft wrote: »

Why do they need it to be easy double. Why can they use on OP mechanic like from frags. Just have it go to 5 like normal then have a chance from other skills activation to give instant activation.

this would be quite literally insane and make it the best skill in the game, it would also lead to a situation where all you do is fish for procs and nothing else you cast really matters... exactly like sorcs do with frag

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

I don't want to offend you but if you die to 2 arrows casted in a row it's 100% a skill issue, merciless is an instant cast projectile so it's impossible to guarantee a hit with it, you can't use it any viable combo like you can do with shalks or blastbones, it's just a pressure tool with additional WPD, making merciless stack up to 10 times solves the problem of it being bad at pressure, so it's completely logical that among all super strong abilities like shalks, blastbones or curce(or even POTL, though it's way worse than the previous 3 it's still way better than merciless) merciless is the one that's getting buffed. I'd personally prefer if one of it's morphs damage were nerfed by around 30-40% but had a delay on it, but that works too considering we have a subclassing now

i dont wanna offend you but merciless in indeed not at all a pressure skill and the wpd stacking it gives is just an added little bonus cherry on top. merciless is probably the single greatest burst skill in pvp and you for sure can guarantee a hit if you combo properly, not to mention on a good build this skill hits anywhere from 15 - 20k which makes your ability to instantly 1 tap someone is nearly unrivaled. the one saving grace is that they only have 1 bow so if you dodge it than your good but with them being able to load 2 shots their combo potential and mind games to 1 shot you goes thru the roof.

the point of the change is to make it easier on players in pve but in pvp this change will make make good players much harder to fight

How in the world is it "the greatest burst skill" if you can't burst with it whatsoever unless you center your build around it entirely(it will be ineffective, just a fun build). 15k hits? That's ridicilious compared to warden's ~12k shalks+ ~10k BFB which is 7k more and can be combined with DB for another ~14k. ~36k VS ~15k. So where is the burst?

"and you for sure can guarantee a hit if you combo properly" well tell me how you can guarantee it in a viable way(the one where it will not deal less damage than incap+bfb/concealed, basic NB combo without proc sets), guess I somehow didn't notice that proper combo after playing NB for 15000+ hours

danko355 wrote: »

I feel that with subclassing people will tank up so much that this will actually be one of the few useful combos to actually finish people. Imagine warden/templar/dk abominations running around with 40-50k health, and small scale will go even crazier with combining everything for tankiness + short synced burst window. How do you kill them?
Assassination is fine in the world where everything goes on steroids.

I already have a 50k+ health block tank build ready to go with the mobility of sorc (storm calling), the stealth and buff access of NB (shadow) and the healing of the unkillable healbot polar wardens (winters embrace). No wardens maturation passive either, so if I a get a random heal from a pure warden or anyone with green balance slotted I sit comfortably around 55-60k health.

Bonus being I don't need to deal much damage, enemies will kill themselves on me, especially the squishy ones that try to stack as much damage as possible into the double bow procs that will be required to take me down.

This is just something that a good, but not top tier, player such as myself has come up with. I'm not looking forward to seeing what the top tier players create with this system the way it has been implemented.

Prionyx wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

I don't want to offend you but if you die to 2 arrows casted in a row it's 100% a skill issue, merciless is an instant cast projectile so it's impossible to guarantee a hit with it, you can't use it any viable combo like you can do with shalks or blastbones, it's just a pressure tool with additional WPD, making merciless stack up to 10 times solves the problem of it being bad at pressure, so it's completely logical that among all super strong abilities like shalks, blastbones or curce(or even POTL, though it's way worse than the previous 3 it's still way better than merciless) merciless is the one that's getting buffed. I'd personally prefer if one of it's morphs damage were nerfed by around 30-40% but had a delay on it, but that works too considering we have a subclassing now

i dont wanna offend you but merciless in indeed not at all a pressure skill and the wpd stacking it gives is just an added little bonus cherry on top. merciless is probably the single greatest burst skill in pvp and you for sure can guarantee a hit if you combo properly, not to mention on a good build this skill hits anywhere from 15 - 20k which makes your ability to instantly 1 tap someone is nearly unrivaled. the one saving grace is that they only have 1 bow so if you dodge it than your good but with them being able to load 2 shots their combo potential and mind games to 1 shot you goes thru the roof.

the point of the change is to make it easier on players in pve but in pvp this change will make make good players much harder to fight

How in the world is it "the greatest burst skill" if you can't burst with it whatsoever unless you center your build around it entirely(it will be ineffective, just a fun build). 15k hits? That's ridicilious compared to warden's ~12k shalks+ ~10k BFB which is 7k more and can be combined with DB for another ~14k. ~36k VS ~15k. So where is the burst?

"and you for sure can guarantee a hit if you combo properly" well tell me how you can guarantee it in a viable way(the one where it will not deal less damage than incap+bfb/concealed, basic NB combo without proc sets), guess I somehow didn't notice that proper combo after playing NB for 15000+ hours

Any meta hybrid brawler can hit those numbers, I get hit for 15 - 20k all the time even with rally and full impen.

And also you guarantee a hit by just knowing when someone isn’t ready for it, ideally you want the incap first for 20% damage but against good players sometimes you gotta switch it up to catch people.

Someone else also brought up a good point, where there’s 1 nightblade there’s 5 and when there’s more than 1 it becomes so hard to deal with

My normal combo is ulfnar -> incap -> bow -> surprise attack

But another really good way to catch people is to incap and then wait for the break free and if they roll you can medium weave and they will get hit by the bow right after the I frames fade. Off balance cc into bow is normally good enough to do 75% of someone hp tho

I should add that warden itself is mega overtuned and does bonkers lvls of damage right now with mechanical acuity northern storms so maybe it’s the second best burst outside of that

Prionyx wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

I don't want to offend you but if you die to 2 arrows casted in a row it's 100% a skill issue, merciless is an instant cast projectile so it's impossible to guarantee a hit with it, you can't use it any viable combo like you can do with shalks or blastbones, it's just a pressure tool with additional WPD, making merciless stack up to 10 times solves the problem of it being bad at pressure, so it's completely logical that among all super strong abilities like shalks, blastbones or curse(or even POTL, though it's way worse than the previous 3 it's still way better than merciless) merciless is the one that's getting buffed. I'd personally prefer if one of it's morphs damage were nerfed by around 30-40% but had a delay on it, but that works too considering we have a subclassing now

Technically merciless is not a projectile because it doesn’t interact with skills like spell wall, wings etc.

Merciless is one of the hardest if not the hardest hitting skill in the game btw, including ultimates. It hits harder than any kind of delayed burst even with subclassing (fact). By no means should it also buff pressure damage.
Needless to say that it’s in the same tree as one of the best spammables, best st burst ultimate and loaded passives.

Haven’t seen curse in a while? It barely deals more damage than a spammable and has no additional effects, check the tooltip.
You should play some actual pvp before engaging into pvp on forum

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can't wait for all those players who haven't read the PTS notes to assume the double spec bow is some new cheat going around... but in all seriousness, playing around the constant persistent threat of being two shotted by NB derivatives is simply not fun PvP, regardless of skill level. At best it warps the meta, at worst it kills BGs the way Rushing Agony killed Cyro. The rest of the line is loaded too, instant spammable that's stronger than cast time spammables, insane crit passives. It won't be a subclass meta, it'll be a NB meta.

I don't want to offend you but if you die to 2 arrows casted in a row it's 100% a skill issue, merciless is an instant cast projectile so it's impossible to guarantee a hit with it, you can't use it any viable combo like you can do with shalks or blastbones, it's just a pressure tool with additional WPD, making merciless stack up to 10 times solves the problem of it being bad at pressure, so it's completely logical that among all super strong abilities like shalks, blastbones or curce(or even POTL, though it's way worse than the previous 3 it's still way better than merciless) merciless is the one that's getting buffed. I'd personally prefer if one of it's morphs damage were nerfed by around 30-40% but had a delay on it, but that works too considering we have a subclassing now

i dont wanna offend you but merciless in indeed not at all a pressure skill and the wpd stacking it gives is just an added little bonus cherry on top. merciless is probably the single greatest burst skill in pvp and you for sure can guarantee a hit if you combo properly, not to mention on a good build this skill hits anywhere from 15 - 20k which makes your ability to instantly 1 tap someone is nearly unrivaled. the one saving grace is that they only have 1 bow so if you dodge it than your good but with them being able to load 2 shots their combo potential and mind games to 1 shot you goes thru the roof.

the point of the change is to make it easier on players in pve but in pvp this change will make make good players much harder to fight

How in the world is it "the greatest burst skill" if you can't burst with it whatsoever unless you center your build around it entirely(it will be ineffective, just a fun build). 15k hits? That's ridicilious compared to warden's ~12k shalks+ ~10k BFB which is 7k more and can be combined with DB for another ~14k. ~36k VS ~15k. So where is the burst?

"and you for sure can guarantee a hit if you combo properly" well tell me how you can guarantee it in a viable way(the one where it will not deal less damage than incap+bfb/concealed, basic NB combo without proc sets), guess I somehow didn't notice that proper combo after playing NB for 15000+ hours

Any meta hybrid brawler can hit those numbers, I get hit for 15 - 20k all the time even with rally and full impen.

And also you guarantee a hit by just knowing when someone isn’t ready for it, ideally you want the incap first for 20% damage but against good players sometimes you gotta switch it up to catch people.

Someone else also brought up a good point, where there’s 1 nightblade there’s 5 and when there’s more than 1 it becomes so hard to deal with

My normal combo is ulfnar -> incap -> bow -> surprise attack

But another really good way to catch people is to incap and then wait for the break free and if they roll you can medium weave and they will get hit by the bow right after the I frames fade. Off balance cc into bow is normally good enough to do 75% of someone hp tho

I should add that warden itself is mega overtuned and does bonkers lvls of damage right now with mechanical acuity northern storms so maybe it’s the second best burst outside of that

What you said is not a combo, it's just pressing 3 skills in a row, combo is shalks+db+bfb because if you hit db shalks and bfb are guaranteed to hit unlike merciless after incap, if you cast incap-bow-spammable bow gets dodged and spammable gets blocked right after, so just around 10-12k damage total, where is the burst you mentioned?

Also I wonder how you plan to cc someone 2 times in a row, perhaps I don't know something. Though merciless in off balance is super unreliable especially in current bfb meta where everyone permablocks, everyone can just wait for off balance to fall off(not to mention that using skills that proc off balance is directly nerfing yourself unless you play in a group or bg)