Has anybody workshopped the "New Player Experience" as pertains to Subclassing?

DenverRalphy · May 1

I'm just curious as to how this will affect the new players entering into the game.

As it is now, many new players can already be a bit put off when they first realize that their journey to level 50 turns out to be not much more than an exteremely long intro/tutorial due to the CP system. Now on top of that, with subclassing being tossed into the mix I think I may foresee a bit of exasperation when new players realize that there is yet another threshold to achieve. Is there a limit to how much a new player is likely willing to trudge through before they feel their character has become relevant?

I can't help but think that when Subclassing was workshopped in-house before development, nobody stopped to consider that it was all seen through the eyes of players who have unlimited access to all skills, passives, gear, cp points, resources, etc.. and not from the perspective of the players that have a higher stake in the outcome.

Rungar · May 1

i think that the whole progression system should be simplified and let players choose their three lines at the beginning of the game with access to "popular templates" for new players.

they should get rid of the 1-50 and just combine it with cp for a unified system and let players work on that from the beginning but factor in more things like achievements.

actually they should get rid of the whole cp system as well and utilize a simplified specialization system into various damage types, healing, armor etc. The whole thing is just overly complex and daunting and doesnt really work for pvp or new players.

i have some ideas...

tsaescishoeshiner · May 1

Subclassing can be worked on while they work on CP, so that's kind of nice. And it won't unlock until level 50, at which point it's at most a daunting choice of which to unlock first. Then the progress on your subclasses is account-wide.

It could make someone indecisive or wanting to optimize feel unsure. Overall, it seems like an exciting thing to work on and a way to add some variety once a player has made it to 50. Like oh, I can switch out this skill line I don't ever use to get some frost skills instead.

Sarannah · May 1

Actually, I think the new subclassing system was mostly created for new players. As subclassing seems to be a way to balance the unbalanced class skilllines, without actually having to balance them. Giving anyone a chance to be top tier, even if they are new, or learning the game, or picked a non-meta class.

To respond to the comments above, I do not feel ZOS should remove the level 1-50 leveling and/or CP system. As these are unique to ESO, and make ESO stand out from the rest of the games. I do feel ZOS needs to expand on the CP system to become an infinite system.

DenverRalphy · May 1

Sarannah wrote: »

Actually, I think the new subclassing system was mostly created for new players. As subclassing seems to be a way to balance the unbalanced class skilllines, without actually having to balance them. Giving anyone a chance to be top tier, even if they are new, or learning the game, or picked a non-meta class.

To respond to the comments above, I do not feel ZOS should remove the level 1-50 leveling and/or CP system. As these are unique to ESO, and make ESO stand out from the rest of the games. I do feel ZOS needs to expand on the CP system to become an infinite system.

Is it really though? First, the player can't subclass until after they hit level 50. Then the player hash to level another class skill line to 50, and that progression is even slower than the base class skill line. During that time whole time, the base class skill lines have been nerfed to account for the increase power benefits of subclassing, which the player doesn't even have access to yet.

Subclassing lowers the floor for Pure classes, and raises the ceiling with sublasses. Giving new players post subclassing an even longer grind to the top, while the content they have to contend with doesn't change to account for it.

old_scopie1945 · May 1

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Actually, I think the new subclassing system was mostly created for new players. As subclassing seems to be a way to balance the unbalanced class skilllines, without actually having to balance them. Giving anyone a chance to be top tier, even if they are new, or learning the game, or picked a non-meta class.

To respond to the comments above, I do not feel ZOS should remove the level 1-50 leveling and/or CP system. As these are unique to ESO, and make ESO stand out from the rest of the games. I do feel ZOS needs to expand on the CP system to become an infinite system.

Is it really though? First, the player can't subclass until after they hit level 50. Then the player hash to level another class skill line to 50, and that progression is even slower than the base class skill line. During that time whole time, the base class skill lines have been nerfed to account for the increase power benefits of subclassing, which the player doesn't even have access to yet.

Subclassing lowers the floor for Pure classes, and raises the ceiling with sublasses. Giving new players post subclassing an even longer grind to the top, while the content they have to contend with doesn't change to account for it.

"I have a cunning plan." (Some unnamed ZOS high up) This plan consists of a brand new system that requires endless grinding. I have already told you guys (To the DEVs) that I am not happy, there is not enough grinding in this game. I want this system implemented ASAP. I don't think I have to remind you that jobs are on the line here. By the way, I also want a way to profit from this in the Crown Store, and no excuses.

valenwood_vegan · May 1

I can't wait to explain this to new players yeah. *Already* a good 50% of them that cycle into my guilds don't make it much beyond 160 cp. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to have another layer of complexity and grinding to go through lol. Especially when they thought they were choosing a class and learning that while leveling up, only to discover that the class choice was mostly just leftover nonsense from an obsolete system.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not at all against the "idea" of subclassing - but this just one more example of how it's being rushed out, half-baked, to meet a deadline. Will the tutorial even be changed to mention subclassing? Will the old, mostly-outdated-already skills advisor be updated? Why do new players have to pick a class at all, why not let them choose skill lines right from the start?

Will the game be even more trivial for the rest of us, while being even more difficult for new players stuck on nerfed "pure" classes as they try to learn the basics? Will it be too overwhelming to suddenly present them with 21 class skill lines to sort through and try to understand instead of just 3? Will more of them give up and move on now that more obstacles have been placed in their way as they try to make their first build and move into later game content like dungeons, trials, and pvp?

It's a mess.

old_scopie1945 · May 1

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I can't wait to explain this to new players yeah. *Already* a good 50% of them that cycle into my guilds don't make it much beyond 160 cp. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to have another layer of complexity and grinding to go through lol. Especially when they thought they were choosing a class and learning that while leveling up, only to discover that the class choice was mostly just leftover nonsense from an obsolete system.

As I've said elsewhere, I'm not at all against the "idea" of subclassing - but this just one more example of how it's being rushed out, half-baked, to meet a deadline. Will the tutorial even be changed to mention subclassing? Will the old, mostly-outdated-already skills advisor be updated? Why do new players have to pick a class at all, why not let them choose skill lines right from the start?

Will the game be even more trivial for the rest of us, while being even more difficult for new players stuck on nerfed "pure" classes as they try to learn the basics? Will it be too overwhelming to suddenly present them with 21 class skill lines to sort through and try to understand instead of just 3? Will more of them give up and move on now that more obstacles have been placed in their way as they try to make their first build and move into later game content like dungeons, trials, and pvp?

It's a mess.

I remember when I started out in ESO, all those years ago. I found the game overwhelming then, even though I was ten years younger. One of my initial thoughts when more was revealed of this system, 'what a nightmare this will now be to brand new players'. All that is mentioned in the post above is %100 on point in my opinion.

When I now ponder on it, I find it hard to believe how little forethought appears to have gone into it. It appears that problems are building up hourly, and the whole rigmarole is getting out of control fast. Good luck in getting it to work to everyone's satisfaction, hopefully sometime this century.

Displaced_Salad · May 2

Franky, admitting they're still "working on it, " pretty much sums it up. No forethought, no idea but ROCK SOLID pricing structure. It's the SSDD of press releases every year, with little to no follow through. Calling it a mess may prove to be the understatement of the century. It's been two years and we still haven't seen those bug fixes.

Renato90085 · May 2

As a old player ,I have 13 toon have max class skill line,I have some friend can free carry me or solo run 2-5 hour nbrp exp farm,I know all class strong/weak where and easy make a bid build,my 8 toon have 300-400skill point can easy swap any line ,but there sound like all is problem for new/replay player...