Oversight with Subclassing and Templar's Class Mastery

Erickson9610 · April 11

Templar's Class Mastery is the only Class Mastery to require the use of specific Class abilities. In specific, to get the full bonus of Templar's Class Mastery, you need the Sacred Ground effect active on you, which can only be gained with skills found in the Restoring Light skill line:

We know from the livestream that we will keep the Class Mastery of our base Class. The problem is that a Templar could swap out Restoring Light and never be able to get the full bonus of their Class Mastery.

For comparison, Arcanist's Class Mastery (which generates a Crux) can be used by all three Arcanist skill lines, since each of them have at least one Crux-consuming ability. Sorcerer's Class Mastery is useful even without pets, and Necromancer's Class Mastery is useful with or without corpses.

Templar is the only Class to be at a disadvantage for swapping out a particular skill line, whereas every other Class is not. Will Templar's Class Mastery effect be updated to not be so strict with ability requirements?
@ZOS_Kevin

nb_rich · April 27

I agree. I think some of the skills and passives need to be moved around a bit for templar.

They maybe need to rework some skill lines to match some of the newer classes that have a dps, tank and healing skill lines

ADarklore · April 27

Or... players need to make a CHOICE... which seems to be part of the subclassing. You shouldn't get ALL benefits if you subclass.

Erickson9610 · April 27

ADarklore wrote: »

Or... players need to make a CHOICE... which seems to be part of the subclassing. You shouldn't get ALL benefits if you subclass.

Arcanists can subclass and still make full use of their Class Mastery because every single Arcanist skill line has abilities which consume Crux.

Necromancers don't even need corpse generating or consuming abilities to make use of their Class Mastery.

Every other Class Mastery just gives some buff that is vaguely reminiscent of their Class....

And Templar is the only one which explicitly requires the use of a specific skill line's abilities. Should Class Masteries be more restrictive to match Templar's?

wolfie1.0. · April 28

ADarklore wrote: »

Or... players need to make a CHOICE... which seems to be part of the subclassing. You shouldn't get ALL benefits if you subclass.

I would be fine with that, provided that each class Mastery gets changed to buff a specific skill line within the default class, so that it too would be considered as "can't" change if you want to keep it's benefit.

Marto · April 28

This one is going to be pretty tricky to patch out.

I think the current version is pretty balanced and reinforces the Templar class identity as a "stand your ground and fight" class, with their relatively low movement speed, high resistance, and lots of healing.

On the other hand, as other users are saying, it's a compromise. You may consider Restoring Light to be a weak skill line and want to get rid of it, but it comes with a pretty strong class script.

So you have to weight the pros and cons. There's always going to be pros and cons to any skill line swap.

CalamityCat · April 28

Honestly, I'd be fine with having that sort of requirement in all classes so there is some actual buff for those who keep two or three base skill lines and effectively specialise. It might be a way to have the pure classes actually keep up with the subclass characters. Something that should have been a foundation for the subclassing system, so that it is genuinely just an option and players didn't have to worry that the likes of PvP and vet trials are going to be off limits unless they re-build their characters.

LunaFlora · April 28

yes it would be good to change it

Erickson9610 · April 29

Marto wrote: »

This one is going to be pretty tricky to patch out.

I think the current version is pretty balanced and reinforces the Templar class identity as a "stand your ground and fight" class, with their relatively low movement speed, high resistance, and lots of healing.

On the other hand, as other users are saying, it's a compromise. You may consider Restoring Light to be a weak skill line and want to get rid of it, but it comes with a pretty strong class script.

So you have to weight the pros and cons. There's always going to be pros and cons to any skill line swap.

If Templar is the "stand your ground" Class, then just give the bonus 50% when not moving. That way even a Werewolf Grimoire could make use of the Class Mastery, as it would remove the explicit need for Class abilities while still keeping the general theme of Templar intact.

Marto · April 29

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If Templar is the "stand your ground" Class, then just give the bonus 50% when not moving. That way even a Werewolf Grimoire could make use of the Class Mastery, as it would remove the explicit need for Class abilities while still keeping the general theme of Templar intact.

That's how it worked in early PTS versions, but it kinda sucked because there's so many fights in the game (PVE and PVP) that require you to move one or two feet to the side. To avoid red, to step into a puzzle, to walk up the steps of a small ledge, to position where your tank wants you, etc.

The current version is much, much better. Even if it results in a dependency on Restoring Light.

Restoring Light is a so-so skill line to begin with, so giving it an indirect buff by enabling the class script is pretty fair IMO.

Erickson9610 · April 29

Marto wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If Templar is the "stand your ground" Class, then just give the bonus 50% when not moving. That way even a Werewolf Grimoire could make use of the Class Mastery, as it would remove the explicit need for Class abilities while still keeping the general theme of Templar intact.

That's how it worked in early PTS versions, but it kinda sucked because there's so many fights in the game (PVE and PVP) that require you to move one or two feet to the side. To avoid red, to step into a puzzle, to walk up the steps of a small ledge, to position where your tank wants you, etc.

The current version is much, much better. Even if it results in a dependency on Restoring Light.

Restoring Light is a so-so skill line to begin with, so giving it an indirect buff by enabling the class script is pretty fair IMO.

I'd rather the +50% just be baked into the WD/SD and Armor without any additional condition to proc it, if Templar's theme of being the "stand your ground" Class is unfavorable in most content.

Templar's Class Mastery should not be used as a reason to justify keeping certain Class skill lines in light of Subclassing. We need fewer restrictions, not more of them.

balthasars_darksideb16_ESO · September 6

Yeah, its annoying to be this restricted with the Templar Class mastery
I went back from my Templar main to my Nightblade
+10% crit is nice - and now easy to achieve 100% crit chance in execution range with the subclasses

The Armor bonus together with Sacred Ground was nice for a Tank (or even a bulky DPS)
But with Subclassing you get stronger Tanks now.

Still would be nice to get a change with the Templar class mastery
Like maybe the +50% hits in if "Minor Mending, Minor Protection or minor Sorcery are active"
or something like that - These are in all three Templar passive skill lines.

Evil_Rurouni · September 6

Simple suggestion?

Change the class mastery requirement to something like:
"While under the effect of a self applied Templar skill"?

Biting jabs, focused charge + morphs, sun shield + morphs, sun flare + morphs, solar flare + morphs, and living dark all apply some sort of effect on the caster that could be used to proc the class mastery without relying on restoring light.

Orbital78 · September 7

Most of the class masteries need to be relooked at, the IA class sets too while we're at it.

FurryCandyHearts · September 7

ok so i will fix it for you:

For 5 seconds, you gain 1320 Armor and 150 Weapon and Spell Damage.

there you go. all fixed up

frogthroat · September 7

It could be changed that any class based AOE works, but for a DD that would not bring much. In practice, maybe Standard of Might, Lightning Splash and Boneyard would be in those skill lines people would use as DD.

So even if the templar's class mastery is changed to any class AOE, the used skill lines would only bring 2, maybe 3 skills that could work.

mandricus · September 7

While we are discussing this, I've a question. Apologies in advance for the confisusion but I'm not sure I understood how the class mastery buffs works when attached to a scribed skill. If I attach a script to the skill in order to appy the effect also to my group (the description says "the effect will also apply to your group") this does not seem to be the case with Templar's class mastery scripts. I tested it with my Templar healer. I put restoring focus or cleansing ritual on the ground, and then used the scribed skill in order to trigger the class mastery script. I was the only one getting the buff, none of my teammates was getting the effect despite they standing inside the area and the skill saying that the effect should also apply to my group. So how does the class mastery script work on that regard? Are my teammates gaining their own class mastery buffs, or the description is misleading because the group effect cannot be applied to class mastery? Or is it just a bug? Because based on my testing and observations, looks like my teammates weren't getting any buff at all.

virtus753 · September 7

mandricus wrote: »

While we are discussing this, I've a question. Apologies in advance for the confisusion but I'm not sure I understood how the class mastery buffs works when attached to a scribed skill. If I attach a script to the skill in order to appy the effect also to my group (the description says "the effect will also apply to your group") this does not seem to be the case with Templar's class mastery scripts. I tested it with my Templar healer. I put restoring focus or cleansing ritual on the ground, and then used the scribed skill in order to trigger the class mastery script. I was the only one getting the buff, none of my teammates was getting the effect despite they standing inside the area and the skill saying that the effect should also apply to my group. So how does the class mastery script work on that regard? Are my teammates gaining their own class mastery buffs, or the description is misleading because the group effect cannot be applied to class mastery? Or is it just a bug? Because based on my testing and observations, looks like my teammates weren't getting any buff at all.

Class mastery cannot be shared. Neither can Major buffs. Even when the tooltip says they're shared, they're not.

mandricus · September 7

Thanks, I was not aware of this. May be the in-game tooltip could say this explicitly?