Introduce more diverse playstyles. PvE on pts is split between beam vs no beam right now. We never had a proper channeled ranged burst skill in the game, closest thing was other morph of crystal frags, before it got changed to crystal weapon.

We have melee options for channeled burst skills like jabs and uppercut, but those are quite behind rn and, well, melee. Something that can be casted from range and dealt enough damage to be on par with heavy attack/ live arcanist at least (for ST), it will have less learning curve due to it being low APM, and will be good altarnarive to those.

Ingenon wrote: »

I think you should add a "Do Nothing" option. Because that is the option I want to pick.

I think that all the players will never agree on what class balance looks like. Every update, I see players post something like "Too many players are playing that class" or "My class needs a buff" or "That other class needs a nerf".

Doing “nothing” right now is not an option I can respect. Arc is too dominant, and subclassing is pushing it 30k dps higher than its peers. That cannot stay as is.

Just because we’ll never have a perfectly balanced game doesn’t mean we can’t try to make it better, and fair

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

I think you should add a "Do Nothing" option. Because that is the option I want to pick.

I think that all the players will never agree on what class balance looks like. Every update, I see players post something like "Too many players are playing that class" or "My class needs a buff" or "That other class needs a nerf".

Doing “nothing” right now is not an option I can respect. Arc is too dominant, and subclassing is pushing it 30k dps higher than its peers. That cannot stay as is.

Just because we’ll never have a perfectly balanced game doesn’t mean we can’t try to make it better, and fair

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. The builds I have seen posted on PTS have one arcanist skill line and two other classes skill line, which means you will show up in trial group as any one of three different classes and still have a top performing DPS build.

Splintered Secrets passive should also give bonus max magicka for each Herald skill slotted. Something to make up for magarc's disadvantages. Or make Tentacular Dread offer a group debuff, like minor brittle for 3 seconds, and take minor brittle off the Eldritch Rune skill.

Ingenon wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

I think you should add a "Do Nothing" option. Because that is the option I want to pick.

I think that all the players will never agree on what class balance looks like. Every update, I see players post something like "Too many players are playing that class" or "My class needs a buff" or "That other class needs a nerf".

Doing “nothing” right now is not an option I can respect. Arc is too dominant, and subclassing is pushing it 30k dps higher than its peers. That cannot stay as is.

Just because we’ll never have a perfectly balanced game doesn’t mean we can’t try to make it better, and fair

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. The builds I have seen posted on PTS have one arcanist skill line and two other classes skill line, which means you will show up in trial group as any one of three different classes and still have a top performing DPS build.

One of three classes that play exactly the same way. Is that really three different classes at this point?

Even if you only consider the base class and want to argue it's three different classes being meta, arc will come ahead due to class mastery, so it's still all about arc if you are trying to optimise.

Joy_Division wrote: »

An Arcanist with no beam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wbPSMMvbUI

Maybe you posted a wrong link? This is using beam.

Joy_Division wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

I think you should add a "Do Nothing" option. Because that is the option I want to pick.

I think that all the players will never agree on what class balance looks like. Every update, I see players post something like "Too many players are playing that class" or "My class needs a buff" or "That other class needs a nerf".

Doing “nothing” right now is not an option I can respect. Arc is too dominant, and subclassing is pushing it 30k dps higher than its peers. That cannot stay as is.

Just because we’ll never have a perfectly balanced game doesn’t mean we can’t try to make it better, and fair

Wait and not do anything hasty.

You can't respect it doing nothing for now? Why? Because knee-jerk reactions demand short-sighted fixes to first impressions?

Here are two 170K parses by someone who has been DPSing for a long time.

An Arcanist with no beam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wbPSMMvbUI

A parse with no Arcanist lines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGDa78_EM0E

There are parses which have surpassed the highest beam build by now (still using arcanist though), but if you look at the damage solely on dummy you are missing the problem entirely. The highest beam build is able to do the same damage to 6 targets extremely reliably, since it's not relying on single target skills or ground AoEs. If the builds are this close in pure single target, in content it's not even close. On live the other classes can compete with Arc because of Azureblight (other classes can utilize it better than arcanist can), but on PTS arcanist beam is by far and beyond the best AoE tool available since Azure is heavily nerfed as a group set.

The main problem is how insanely well arcanist can utilize subclassing. You have 98% of your offensive power in the one skill line, so subclassing isn't really a trade off, it's just a serious upgrade. This is the same case for necro, but to a slightly lesser degree. All other classes have to give something to access subclassing, but arcanist doesn't.

Herald of the Tome is the best skill line for PvE and it's not even close. The beam enables it for insane AoE and single target damage, and the flail with it's unique debuff enables it for every non beam build. They also get a good spammable which works for magicka and stamina and I haven't even talked about the insanely stacked passives. The whole skill line is just way too overloaded. Previously this was barely kept in check by the other lines not doing much, especially in terms of damage, but that's not the case anymore.

BananaBender wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

I think you should add a "Do Nothing" option. Because that is the option I want to pick.

I think that all the players will never agree on what class balance looks like. Every update, I see players post something like "Too many players are playing that class" or "My class needs a buff" or "That other class needs a nerf".

Doing “nothing” right now is not an option I can respect. Arc is too dominant, and subclassing is pushing it 30k dps higher than its peers. That cannot stay as is.

Just because we’ll never have a perfectly balanced game doesn’t mean we can’t try to make it better, and fair

Wait and not do anything hasty.

You can't respect it doing nothing for now? Why? Because knee-jerk reactions demand short-sighted fixes to first impressions?

Here are two 170K parses by someone who has been DPSing for a long time.

An Arcanist with no beam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wbPSMMvbUI

A parse with no Arcanist lines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGDa78_EM0E

There are parses which have surpassed the highest beam build by now (still using arcanist though), but if you look at the damage solely on dummy you are missing the problem entirely. The highest beam build is able to do the same damage to 6 targets extremely reliably, since it's not relying on single target skills or ground AoEs. If the builds are this close in pure single target, in content it's not even close. On live the other classes can compete with Arc because of Azureblight (other classes can utilize it better than arcanist can), but on PTS arcanist beam is by far and beyond the best AoE tool available since Azure is heavily nerfed as a group set.

The main problem is how insanely well arcanist can utilize subclassing. You have 98% of your offensive power in the one skill line, so subclassing isn't really a trade off, it's just a serious upgrade. This is the same case for necro, but to a slightly lesser degree. All other classes have to give something to access subclassing, but arcanist doesn't.

Herald of the Tome is the skill line for PvE and it's not even close. The beam enables it for insane AoE and single target damage, and the flail with it's unique debuff enables it for every non beam build. They also get a good spammable which works for magicka and stamina and I haven't even talked about the insanely stacked passives. The whole skill line is just way too overloaded. Previously this was barely kept in check by the other lines not doing much, especially in terms of damage, but that's not the case anymore.

Maybe distributing the offensive power across the skill lines a little would help then?

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

BananaBender wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

I think you should add a "Do Nothing" option. Because that is the option I want to pick.

I think that all the players will never agree on what class balance looks like. Every update, I see players post something like "Too many players are playing that class" or "My class needs a buff" or "That other class needs a nerf".

Doing “nothing” right now is not an option I can respect. Arc is too dominant, and subclassing is pushing it 30k dps higher than its peers. That cannot stay as is.

Just because we’ll never have a perfectly balanced game doesn’t mean we can’t try to make it better, and fair

Wait and not do anything hasty.

You can't respect it doing nothing for now? Why? Because knee-jerk reactions demand short-sighted fixes to first impressions?

Here are two 170K parses by someone who has been DPSing for a long time.

An Arcanist with no beam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wbPSMMvbUI

A parse with no Arcanist lines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGDa78_EM0E

There are parses which have surpassed the highest beam build by now (still using arcanist though), but if you look at the damage solely on dummy you are missing the problem entirely. The highest beam build is able to do the same damage to 6 targets extremely reliably, since it's not relying on single target skills or ground AoEs. If the builds are this close in pure single target, in content it's not even close. On live the other classes can compete with Arc because of Azureblight (other classes can utilize it better than arcanist can), but on PTS arcanist beam is by far and beyond the best AoE tool available since Azure is heavily nerfed as a group set.

The main problem is how insanely well arcanist can utilize subclassing. You have 98% of your offensive power in the one skill line, so subclassing isn't really a trade off, it's just a serious upgrade. This is the same case for necro, but to a slightly lesser degree. All other classes have to give something to access subclassing, but arcanist doesn't.

Herald of the Tome is the skill line for PvE and it's not even close. The beam enables it for insane AoE and single target damage, and the flail with it's unique debuff enables it for every non beam build. They also get a good spammable which works for magicka and stamina and I haven't even talked about the insanely stacked passives. The whole skill line is just way too overloaded. Previously this was barely kept in check by the other lines not doing much, especially in terms of damage, but that's not the case anymore.

Maybe distributing the offensive power across the skill lines a little would help then?

That would definitely be a good start

Many comments from me, but one primary issue is that the DLC classes’ skill lines are much more fully conceived/streamlined into DPS/Tanking/Healing. Some of the original lines are exceptions (Assassination), but many are incoherent. DLC classes (especially Arc) are sacrificing nearly nothing to subclass.

Re: beam in general, one piece of feedback is the banner giving a crux vastly outperforms all the other class buffs. It’s not even close. Remove that or bring the others up to par.

My main point of frustration is how well low APM skills are working. Design feels like it’s removing any need to play fast and is frankly boring. Yes, playing fast on an arc yields the best parses of that subgroup but no action for 5 seconds is exceedingly boring and should never outperform 1 action per second.

For me, I'd honestly try to balance the two morphs of tentacles first.

The Cephaliarch's Flail (the one that everyone uses to prep for Fatecarver) is the one almost everyone uses, because it's a setup for Fatecarver and there's no way that Runeblades -> Tentacular Dread could ever hope to match up to that.

1. Remove the Abyssal Ink debuff. At least from the standard and the Flail morphs; the Dread morph could maybe keep it but change it to only apply based on Crux spent (e.g. 0%, 3%, 6%, 9% damage taken)
2. Give the Dread morph the execute scaling that the old Flail morph had.

That would at least make the Dread morph more appealing, which means that there would be a reason people may want to go to Runeblades->Dread instead of Flail->Fatecarver.

Another thing they could easily do is change the tick rate. Fatecarver ticks every 0.3s, so just having it tick every 0.5s instead even at the same power would drop the power of Fatecarver by about 40% (and may save server compute cycles...)

J18696 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

For me, I'd honestly try to balance the two morphs of tentacles first.

The Cephaliarch's Flail (the one that everyone uses to prep for Fatecarver) is the one almost everyone uses, because it's a setup for Fatecarver and there's no way that Runeblades -> Tentacular Dread could ever hope to match up to that.

1. Remove the Abyssal Ink debuff. At least from the standard and the Flail morphs; the Dread morph could maybe keep it but change it to only apply based on Crux spent (e.g. 0%, 3%, 6%, 9% damage taken)
2. Give the Dread morph the execute scaling that the old Flail morph had.

That would at least make the Dread morph more appealing, which means that there would be a reason people may want to go to Runeblades->Dread instead of Flail->Fatecarver.

Another thing they could easily do is change the tick rate. Fatecarver ticks every 0.3s, so just having it tick every 0.5s instead even at the same power would drop the power of Fatecarver by about 40% (and may save server compute cycles...)

It already has the % dmg done increase based on crux consumed for the other morph 33% dmg per crux and 2% dmg done debuff per crux

I know... currently at a 5%, 7%, 9%, 11% based on Crux. I'd nerf it a bit if it's being kept at all, but the idea of a unique damage taken debuff from one specific person is something that I'm not a huge fan of in the first place. Either that or change it to be a full on support morph and apply Vuln like Azandar's version so that anyone can take advantage of that debuff and not just the person who cast tentacles.

But that is the issue with Dread is that it's a consumer, so no matter how many Crux you have, Dread will never be outclassed by Fatecarver, so people don't tend to run it at all. Some love should be given to Dread to make it more appealing, because then people would actually have to choose between Flail to set up for Fatecarver, or a finish with Dread (which means Fatecarver won't happen and you need a different setup)

Introducing channeled skill play for PvE situations has honestly been a godsend for me personally. I much prefer it over the juggling of typical LA weaving playstyles and its presence means that I can contribute to group play meaningfully without relying on being a support role.

I’d love to see other Channeled skills introduced. With Fatecarver’s long-ranged and narrow hit box and Jabs’ short-ranged and moderate hit box, it would be interesting to introduce more skills balanced around these dynamics.

I’d love to see a Channelled morph of Mage’s Wrath that removes the execute function and improves DPS akin to Fatecarver and Jabs; maybe a long-range cylindrical AoE

The cost increase and target cap that are currently on pts were good moves. Without the damage buff these would put beam in a more leveled place.

But for subclassing the crux generating and spending skills should be distributed through multiple skill lines. Just to make more choices comparably strong without destroying pure arcas playstyle.

The problem with arcanist was the core design flaw around the crux mechanic. Instead of having crux work similar to how reawakened hierophant works, where depending on how many crux you spend a skill does different things, zos went with the lazy approach where "more crux = more power".
They had a perfect opportunity to make arcanist a more complex class with the crux mechanic but decided that accessibility was more important.

Arc could've remained a powerful class in PvE if it actually took more effort than "Flail --> beam --> repeat" (obviously there is more too it but with banner and class mastery it's not far from an actual rotation) and had a more complex system similar to what I described above.

The 2nd issue has nothing to do with the class itself but rather with how ZOS designs content. Every new trial is so trash/aoe heavy that it makes 0 sense to bring anything that doesn't excel in the AoE department for most trial-/progression groups, and arc fits too perfectly into that category.