This might be the way. Because original classes will inevitably fall behind and stomping them further with nerfs in the name of subclassing will not help but only hurt the game overall again.

francesinhalover wrote: »

Say someone that doesn't change theyr class at all could they get a passive? For example

20% extra dmg for not changing your class
20% extra healing done
20% damage reduction?

something like that

because atm subclassing is so powerfull that players that don't want to participate on the system will lose a lot.

I think the opposite effect would be better.

-10% dmg
-10% healing
- 10% etc.
per subclassed tree. So if you subclass 2 trees. 20% nerf.

This will help keep the insane powercreep at bay. Maybe -15% may be needed TBH

AdmiralDigby wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Say someone that doesn't change theyr class at all could they get a passive? For example

20% extra dmg for not changing your class
20% extra healing done
20% damage reduction?

something like that

because atm subclassing is so powerfull that players that don't want to participate on the system will lose a lot.

I think the opposite effect would be better.

-10% dmg
-10% healing
- 10% etc.
per subclassed tree. So if you subclass 2 trees. 20% nerf.

This will help keep the insane powercreep at bay. Maybe -15% may be needed TBH

I agree with this. I think they should implement a reduced amount for subclassing, say "When used as a subclass, this skill/passive now does 'xyz' amount". Boom... problem fixed. Or even making it so passives ONLY work with the class skills they originate from, so a necromancer passive would only apply to necromancer skills. That would probably be the easiest solution, but not the best IMO.

I would say ppl should stop whinning and enjoy subclassing system. Testing new combos requires much more hardworking than pure ones especially first days of patch releasing.
If it confirmed something weaker than before why should people spend time to do this ?

Subclassing suppose to give every non -arcanist class chances to have the same power as them, however the first pts week shows it is more likely bring benifits to make arcanist stronger ! So what ? The system is fine , the powerful class is the problem, yes it is arcanist or I can say it is beam.
Then everyone likes assassin skilline, assassin is op while Nightblade is not.
Ppl ask nerf this system, so what? Even zos cancel this system , many people would still go back to play arcanist or their heavy attack sorcerers to finish the most contents of the game without any questions. So...
WHY PEOPLE KEEP COMPLAINING THE SYSTYEM NOT THE OP CLASSS ?????? WHAT PROBLEM YOU HAVE ?!

Wereswan wrote: »

AdmiralDigby wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Say someone that doesn't change theyr class at all could they get a passive? For example

20% extra dmg for not changing your class
20% extra healing done
20% damage reduction?

something like that

because atm subclassing is so powerfull that players that don't want to participate on the system will lose a lot.

I think the opposite effect would be better.

-10% dmg
-10% healing
- 10% etc.
per subclassed tree. So if you subclass 2 trees. 20% nerf.

This will help keep the insane powercreep at bay. Maybe -15% may be needed TBH

Players hate nerfs, and love buffs. Structuring it as a "synergy bonus" or whatever for keeping 2-3 of your original class skill lines is at least a little less likely to draw intense opposition than making it a nerf to subclasses—and we already have set bonuses to point to as an existing system like it.

I don't want 50% powercreep. This prevents that.

The history of the game and buffs and nerfs and changes is a series of pleas that are essentially " I know the game is changing, but can I not change and be great?"

AdmiralDigby wrote: »

Wereswan wrote: »

AdmiralDigby wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Say someone that doesn't change theyr class at all could they get a passive? For example

20% extra dmg for not changing your class
20% extra healing done
20% damage reduction?

something like that

because atm subclassing is so powerfull that players that don't want to participate on the system will lose a lot.

I think the opposite effect would be better.

-10% dmg
-10% healing
- 10% etc.
per subclassed tree. So if you subclass 2 trees. 20% nerf.

This will help keep the insane powercreep at bay. Maybe -15% may be needed TBH

Players hate nerfs, and love buffs. Structuring it as a "synergy bonus" or whatever for keeping 2-3 of your original class skill lines is at least a little less likely to draw intense opposition than making it a nerf to subclasses—and we already have set bonuses to point to as an existing system like it.

I don't want 50% powercreep. This prevents that.

Neither do I, but structuring it as a penalty to subclasses is inevitably going to draw intense opposition. Saying instead that you get X bonuses from slotting 2-3 skill lines from the "Dragonknight" skill family (or whatever) would at least be somewhat less controversial

Edit to add: another problem here is that not all multiclassed builds are equivalently nasty. It might be reasonable for arcnecroblades, but a lot of combinations won't be nearly so ridiculous as that, and would end up straight-up worse than their parent classes.

BattleAxe wrote: »

Here in lies a problem subclassing( more like multiclassing) is the new system so making base classes on par with ppl using the new system makes new system pointless. Why should I subclass if I can have my cake and eat it to staying with my current set up? The problem is not the new system the problem is the way the og classes are designed vs how 3 dlc classes are designed. 3 new classes have each skill tree assigned to 1 branch of the trifecta tank dps or healing. Base 4 classes skill lines are not arranged that way for the most part.

Why is it a problem for subclass builds to be as good as the existing classes rather than straight-up better? People keep saying they want this so they can RP an XYZ that they can't under the existing system. Why is it a problem if XYZ ends up perfectly in line with what exists now? People have more options that way, as opposed to "a few badly broken ones everyone will be expected to use instead."

BattleAxe wrote: »

Here in lies a problem subclassing( more like multiclassing) is the new system so making base classes on par with ppl using the new system makes new system pointless. Why should I subclass if I can have my cake and eat it to staying with my current set up? The problem is not the new system the problem is the way the og classes are designed vs how 3 dlc classes are designed. 3 new classes have each skill tree assigned to 1 branch of the trifecta tank dps or healing. Base 4 classes skill lines are not arranged that way for the most part.

Its a blessing and a curse.
While you can swap out tanking line from necro and not lose much in DPS departure, any other class that want to borrow Bone Tyrant will soon realise that he cant supply enough corpses to use it effectivly. Same with Soldier of Apocrypha. If you not an Arcanist you cant generate enough crux with this skilline alone to use is to extent that pure Arc can.
Wardens are better in that regard, since thier winters embrace is easily portable to anyone who wants to play cryomancer. From base classes sorc lines are the worst, except for stormcalling. Pet line is streamlined into pet gameplay and dark magic is all about frag proc and thats it.

Observing PTS duels i saw quite a few pure sorcs and they are still good. They kept up with new plardenblade and even won in some duels. PvE-wise - beam is new meta, if you arent cro/nb/arc you will fall behind quite drasticly, if patch will go live without any change.

chongguang wrote: »

I
Subclassing suppose to give every non -arcanist class chances to have the same power as them, however the first pts week shows it is more likely bring benifits to make arcanist stronger !

Great, Arcanist with fire buff, Arcanist with Ice buff, Arcanist with shadow buff, so much diversity, so much fun.

You know how other games implement multi classing? They gatekeep the strongest skills to the main class, but let other classes spec into the weaker skills. That's how it should be done, not this hodgepodge of "yeah I'll cherry pick the skill lines with the strongest passives and actives"