If you miss skill exclusivity, class identity, and meaningful theorycrafting, switch to Werewolf.

Erickson9610 · April 17

Werewolf may get to use passives from Subclassing, but it's now the only playstyle in the entire game which has mutually exclusive skills.

You don't get to use non-Werewolf abilities while transformed, nor do non-transformed characters get to use Werewolf abilities or passives. No actives or ultimates from any other skill line, from Subclassing or otherwise, will help you with Werewolf.

If you want a real challenge, I implore you to switch to Werewolf when Subclassing hits Live. You'll be several thousand DPS behind the meta in PvE and you'll lack essential tools needed in PvP, but the tradeoff is identity and potential for meaningful theorycrafting.

Even if you don't necessarily like werewolves in general, the Werewolf playstyle will remind you of what the game was like pre-Hybridization, where there were several distinct playstyles that couldn't do everything. Werewolf forces restriction, and restriction spurs creativity.

Stx · April 17

It’s sad but also true that subclassing is an indirect nerf to werewolf because wolf can only benefit from select passives from each class. So it will gain some performance but exponentially less than every other build in the game.

Seems like a great time to let wolves benefit from weapon passives!

Darkness734 · April 17

I think there should be additional changes made. Such as
Finally fixing ferocious roar applying to the first heavy attack
light attacks cleaving, faster overall (give cleaving to both morphs of werewolf)
hircines rage applying major berserk at any health % or even just be active while slotted.
Hircines fortitude having a dot heal and/or a aoe heal, or synergy added to it
Execute scaling added to all damage from Werewolf, even light attack

Changes to pack leader - buff dire wolves so they either have utility or more damage to compete with berserker.

Change call of the pack to something else, since werewolf form is essentially unlimited after transforming.

Take taunt off of roar and place it on feral pounce, to free up the choice between major protection and savagery

Tommy_The_Gun · April 17

On one hand, you will be able to pick 3x best class passive that work while in WW form.
On the other hand, non-ww builds will benefit way more from Subclassing and will be light years ahead of WW.

So it may seem like a very tiny buff vs live WW, but it is an overall huge nerf for a WW.

Stx · April 17

Yep

Darkness734 · April 18

@ZOS_Kevin
Any werewolf balance changes on the way?

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 18

Or you could play an Oakensoul Vampire with all 6 Vampire skills.

Erickson9610 · April 18

Darkness734 wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin
Any werewolf balance changes on the way?

Regarding werewolf balance changes, many of us were happy to get something alongside the release of Scribing last year — but many of our objections to the changes weren't commented on by the devs. For instance, Piercing Howl was nerfed under the guise of being a buff, and the Terrified effect and the changes to Roar try to get damage dealers to use all 5 of their skills but do so in a detrimental way. Damage dealers should not be putting enemies on crowd control immunity, and Terrified nets a decrease in overall DPS and sustain when Ferocious Roar is stuffed into the parse anyway.

Werewolf still cannot use Scribing — a Werewolf Grimoire would be the proper way to get damage dealer werewolves to use 5 abilities rather than just 4. It really would do wonders for Werewolf in both PvE and PvP due to how restricted the playstyle is.

It's been several months now since Werewolf has had any substantial balance changes, while the class playstyles receive balance changes constantly. I totally understand that the focus right now is getting Subclassing ready for Live, so I'm not disappointed by the lack of Werewolf balance changes. I was just hoping for a Werewolf Scribing ability by this point, so we could actually use last year's Chapter feature and have some tools to overcome our own shortcomings ourselves.

Erickson9610 · April 18

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Or you could play an Oakensoul Vampire with all 6 Vampire skills.

This is basically the situation with players who don't want to touch Subclassing, is it not? Nothing is stopping them from playing a pureclass, but the game still allows them to subclass.

The argument being made in this thread is that Werewolf is the only playstyle which literally cannot have the option to use active/ultimate abilities other than their own.

Once again, you could play an "Oakensoul <Skill Line> with all <#> <Skill Line> skills" — where <Skill Line> could be something like Aedric Spear, Psijic Order, Undaunted, Two Handed, or anything else, and the <#> changes to match the number of available skills in that skill line. The only difference is that with all skill lines except Werewolf you can still mix and match skills from other skill lines. Werewolf just doesn't give you the option of build freedom, even if you wanted it.

gc0018 · April 19

Then doing to lowest Damage within a raid team or being slaughtered in a battlefield?
The worst part is that subclass do not give us any freedom of making choices under the name of freedom.

Darkness734 · April 19

there needs to be changes!

JaxontheUnfortunate · April 19

Yeah I agree, though I gave up expecting positive changes from zos if I'm being honest and no longer chase the big numbers and choose to have as much fun as I can.

Morvan · April 19

I think instead of just buffing them they should do a complete rework, both the model and skills.

Could even release a DLC with a whole story surrounding them, Whiterun would be perfect for that.

Hypertionb14_ESO · April 19

tbh i wish Werewolf was more like Vampire in that you had access to its skills when not transformed.
Ideally Weakened so they are better while transformed or have extra effects while transformed like how vampire has extra benefits when at a higher stage.

the game really has left behind WW in a lot of ways.

Erickson9610 · April 20

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

tbh i wish Werewolf was more like Vampire in that you had access to its skills when not transformed.

I personally think that's a terrible idea. Not only does it not make sense to be able to roar, howl, and pounce on enemies while not transformed, it would also mean the death of the playstyle as a whole — the same way Subclassing is "killing" Pureclass builds.

Werewolf is what it is because it's so restrictive. If we could use any skill from any skill line while transformed, we absolutely would — with Subclassing, we'd probably replace Hircine's Fortitude with Polar Wind, since that's basically an upgraded version of it. We'd replace every Werewolf ability with a better ability found somewhere else. Werewolf's identity would be dead.

Like with Subclassing, there's nothing stopping you from playing a "pure Werewolf" build even if the ability restriction of Werewolf was lifted. Most people couldn't bring themselves to nerf themselves any more than they already are with Werewolf, though. At least with the ability restriction as it is, we have an excuse to maintain our identity in the face of the meta.

JaxontheUnfortunate · April 20

While part of me wishes we got some sort of buff part of me also likes the challenge of overcoming some of the restrictions/challenges of playing werewolf.