It's time to buff necro

OtarTheMad · April 14

Xarc wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

As a person who only plays cro, I don’t see any buffs needed?

I parse 130k
I take top in dps runs most often
I have no issues in group or solo content
I flex as a support dps and STILL out dmg arcanists

What do we need exactly?

Mostly I feel people should improve their ability to play a class. Because I love my cro and have pride in crushing easy mode dps with my toon.

Love necro, if anything nerf arcanists and shift this meta away from support-less meta toons who use three skills

pve perspective, necro is op

pvp perspective, necro is the worst class

To be fair though, truly. Being OP in PvE is a low bar lol. I could put my keyboard on the ground and let a cat lay on it and it would probably do okay in some content.

ForumBully · April 14

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

As a person who only plays cro, I don’t see any buffs needed?

I parse 130k
I take top in dps runs most often
I have no issues in group or solo content
I flex as a support dps and STILL out dmg arcanists

What do we need exactly?

Mostly I feel people should improve their ability to play a class. Because I love my cro and have pride in crushing easy mode dps with my toon.

Love necro, if anything nerf arcanists and shift this meta away from support-less meta toons who use three skills

pve perspective, necro is op

pvp perspective, necro is the worst class

To be fair though, truly. Being OP in PvE is a low bar lol. I could put my keyboard on the ground and let a cat lay on it and it would probably do okay in some content.

Nerf cats

Renato90085 · April 14

MrZeDark wrote: »

As a person who only plays cro, I don’t see any buffs needed?

I parse 130k
I take top in dps runs most often
I have no issues in group or solo content
I flex as a support dps and STILL out dmg arcanists

What do we need exactly?

Mostly I feel people should improve their ability to play a class. Because I love my cro and have pride in crushing easy mode dps with my toon.

Love necro, if anything nerf arcanists and shift this meta away from support-less meta toons who use three skills

me too ,but i main nb,are you think nb dps is good in pve endgame?
pve and pvp not same game

Navaac223 · April 14

To clarify : of course necro is fine in pve. It might even be one of the best choices for subclassing due to grave lord's dot bonuses finally getting a purpose in pve.

The only thing people are complaining about is pvp, where necro's kit is outmatched by other classes (except maybe arc). With subclassing, people are going to make insanely op builds using, for example, assassination spammable and ult with the templar execute. Add stuff like ward or some of warden's hots (+minor toughness) and you get the reason why pvp players don't see this as a very positive change. Not even talking about actual 1 shot gankers that can kill a troll tank or whatever nightmare fuel we come up with in the pts...

Necro benefits a lot from subclassing, but it cannot get anywhere close to being as op as other classes will get, wich is why I see this as a massive necro nerf for pvp

Navaac223 · April 14

Let's goooo necro got nerfed !
Thank you zos. I was getting scared necros might actually get a buff after reading somewhat promising changes on the other classes like ward finally getting nerfed. Thank god nightblades got a buff too ! The nb population is dying and they really needed more damage

LukosCreyden · April 14

Gravelord Sacrifice still exists.
Therefore, bad class is bad.

StarOfElyon · April 14

Navaac223 wrote: »

With subclassing coming, I thought surely necro would get much better but, after thinking more about it, this gives us even less reasons to pick it in pvp. We've all been thinking about the op combinations we were about to do. How many of you have thought about using a necromancer skill line ? I'd guess not many, except those who want to make all pet builds, but we're talking about the stuff that will kill you in cyrodiil here, not troll builds.

There's a grand total of 2 skills that optimised players might be interested in : blastbones and spirit guardian. Ok maybe in duels I could see a few players making op bash buids with the goliath ult but, again, we're talking about the builds that you'll actually see in open world pvp. The thing is that blastbones is literally useless if your target is running away or if a mage guard decides to use a negate, so it's easily outmatched by pretty much every other burst skill. For example, if you picked animal companions instead of grave lord, you would have one of the best brutality/sorcery skills, a great mobility tool, major and minor breach with shalks, as well as passives that are, get this, actually good. Spirit guardian is a nice little defense boost but, come on, 16 sec duration ? Why would anyone pick this when you could take streak and take no damage because of the mobility ?

Every other necro skill is literally just a worse version of other classes' skills. Summoner's armor ? That's hurricane without the minor expedition and the dot, but with a redundant minor resolve (since vigor is almost mandatory at this point). Resistant flesh ? Coag but with less healing and a debuff for good measure, oh yeah, and a buff that lasts about as much time as the buff to ghostly embrace lasted and of course, say it with me everyone, necro passives are almost useless, whereas the draconic power passives (even though they're the weakest out of the 3 dk lines) give you 12% healing taken for free and other defensive perks. Ruinous scythe ? only used to stun with off-balanced. Nb literally has that on its spammable...

My point being : there is no reason at all to slot a necro skill line when you factor in completely busted skill lines like assassination, daedric summoning (ward + passives) and earthern heart (mostly passives : minor brutality and battle roar). Sure, necro will benefit a lot from subclassing, since they'll have access to good skills for once. Meanwhile the other classes will get so OP that necro might actually be even worse than it is right now..

The solution ?
1)Stop power creep : sometimes nerfs are warranted. Hardened ward, for example, needs to be nerfed into the ground
2)Give something cool to necro ! Every class except necro has something other classes want. Templar has JBeam, nb cloak, sorc has streak, warden has the potential to be really tanky with next to no investments in tankyness, while having awesome damage skills like northern storm, and great hots, dk has battle roar as well as many really solid skills. Arcanist.. well, I haven't played arc at all in pvp tbh, so I wouldn't know. However, their kit looks as suited to pvp as necro's.. not very. Anyways, there are a lot of skills that could be deleted on necro with absolutely no one missing them. just delete expunge and bone totem and replace them with fully thought-out skills that other classes would want in their kit

I don't know why they're so afraid to buff necros. It's ridiculous. There is officially no more excuse to play a Necromancer. Just pick a better class and add blastbones from the necro skills

My outstanding issues:

Redguards:

StarOfElyon wrote: »

These are some tweaks I would like to see made to the Redguards's passives. Hopefully, they will be seen as reasonable among the devs. They keep in mind the Redguards's reputation for endurance (stamina return) and discipline (reduced ability cost).
"The Redguards of Hammerfell are talented and athletic warriors, born to battle. A desert people, their ancestors migrated to Tamriel from the lost continent of Yokuda. Their culture is based on preserving ancient traditions and defying their harsh environment. They prize honor and dignity above all else, combining a deep reverence for the divine with a suspicion of all things magical. Their capital is the merchant port of Sentinel, but their roots are deep in the sands of the Alik'r Desert. In their youth, Redguards endure a rite of passage in the desolate wastes of Alik'r as a test of endurance and discipline. Only the strongest survive." https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Redguard

PASSIVES:

Wayfarer - Increases your experience gain with the One Hand and Shield skill line by 15%. Increases the duration of any eaten food by 15 minutes.

*Martial Training - Reduces the stamina cost of your abilities by 6%. Reduces the effectiveness of snares applied to you by 15%.
Redguards need help as a stamina sustain race. Reduced stamina cost across the board seems fitting.

Conditioning - Increases your Max Stamina by 2000.

*Adrenaline Rush - Increases your stamina recovery by 130. When you deal or take damage, you restore 248 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.
A big problem with the old version of this passive is that it was way too active, requiring you to spend resources to get resources back. It causes problems when you're not in a position to deal damage. No damage; no sustain. This change makes the "adrenaline rush" passive more "passive" and is still tied to being in combat. This also reinforces their reputation for endurance, "the ability to withstand hardship or adversity."

Necromancer:

StarOfElyon wrote: »

This is an updated version of my Necro ideas thread from 2023 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633137/suggestions-for-necromancer-changes) with adjustments accounting for the Update 43 patch notes.

Death Scythe: (both morphs)
Deals more damage based on the enemy's missing health.
- Hungry Scythe: should also apply life steal to all enemies hit, in addition to healing the caster over time.

Shocking Siphon: The AOE should remain on the ground even if the tether breaks early. (Increase the radius size too)
- Mystic Siphon: the increased Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery persists even if the tether breaks early.

Flame Skull:
- Riccochet Skull/Venom Skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. (Increase travel speed)

Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)

Restoring Tether: the effects persist on the player character even if the tether breaks early.

Grave Grasp:
- Empowering Grasp: Summon three patches of skeletal claws from the ground in front of you dealing 898 frost damage. Enemies in the first area are stunned for 3 seconds, immobilized in the second area for 4 seconds, and snared in the final area by 50% for 5 seconds. Each patch applies Minor Maim to enemies hit for 10 seconds, reducing their damage done by 5%. Each area applies Minor Maim to enemies, Empower to your allies, and enhances the damage and healing of your summons by 1000. Each effect lasts 10 seconds.

- Ghostly Embrace: Summon three patches of skeletal claws from the ground in front of you, dealing 1742 Frost Damage and an additional 1635 Frost Damage over 5 seconds. The initial hit applies the Chilled status effect. The final area creates a corpse if at least one enemy was hit.

Expunge: reduces the cost of all your abilities by 3% while slotted on either bar.

Bitter Harvest: when slotted on either bar, reduces your damage taken by 3%.

Boneyard increase the radius to 8 meters.

PASSIVES:
Corpse Consumption: When you consume a corpse, you generate 10 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 16 seconds. You also gain Major Savagery and Prophecy for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629.

Undead Confederate: While you have a Sacrificial Bones, Skeletal Mage, or Spirit Mender active, your Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery is increased by 200. You also gain Major Brutality and Sorcery for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

ULTIMATES:
Frozen Colossus: Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Glacial Colossus: does frost damage and stuns enemies on the second hit instead of the third.
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground only once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time.

Vampires:

These changes are very much needed. The suggested changes are in italics:

Rather than revert the changes to the Undeath passive, I believe it would be better to increase the power of Vampires (while being careful not to passively boost the power of the Nightblade class).

==========
PASSIVES
==========

Strike from the Shadows: When you leave Mist Form or activate Unnatural Movement your Weapon and Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.

=========
SKILLS
=========
:
Vampiric Drain: Siphon away your enemies' vitality, dealing 870 Magic Damage and healing you for 25% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Activating this ability grants you Major Protection and Major Berserk for 10 seconds.

Mesmerize: Subdue enemies in front of you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds if they are facing your direction. This stun cannot be blocked.
- Hypnosis: Subdue enemies around you with your baleful gaze, stunning them for 5 seconds. This stun cannot be blocked. Enemies are no longer required to be facing your direction.

Mist Form: Disperse into a dark mist, causing the next 3 projectiles to deal no damage to you for 1 second while you dash forward and reappear at your target location after a short duration. Casting again within 4 seconds costs 33% more Magicka. Activating the skill removes snares and immobilizations.

Snare removal would make mist form a fantastic ability, instead of a frustrating one. It's really a no-brainer.

Blood Frenzy:
Allow your monstrous appetites to take hold, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 60 every 2 seconds, up to 5 times. While toggled on, the Health cost of this ability increases by 360 per stack and you cannot be healed by anyone but yourself, your pets, or your Companions. All damage you deal heals you for 1250 Health, up to once every 1 second.

========
SETS
========
Hopefully ZOS revisits all sets in the game and I have a few proposals for the vampire themed sets here:

Vampire Cloak:
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 171 Weapon and Spell Damage. Removes the penalties of your Vampire stages.

I believe these changes will make this set worth choosing for vampire themed builds over sets that are stronger in general.

Vampire Lord:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(5 items) Increases the bonuses of your Vampire Stage, depending on how far you've progressed. Stage 1/2/3/4: 5%/10%/15%/20% reduced Vampire Ability cost.

Vampirism is already punishing enough already.

I want to add to the list of sets that I feel are connected to Vampires (or maybe specifically characters who are Vampire hunters).

Meridia's Blessed Armor:
(2 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 1487 Armor
(5 items) Gain Minor Protection at all times. When you Block, you gain Meridia's Blessed Armor for 5 seconds, causing you to dodge all incoming attacks. This effect can occur once every 25 seconds.

Considering the changes I'm proposing for Vampire's Cloak, I think adding the Minor Protection to Meridia's Blessed Armor makes it a suitable replacement. Minor Protection is easy to source but I think it fits the theme of this set being protective.

Stendarr's Embrace:
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(5 items) You take 10% less damage from undead enemies, Vampires, and Werewolves. When you heal yourself or an ally, you remove all negative effects from them. This effect can occur once every 30 seconds per target.

Urzigurumash · April 14

There were way more buffs than nerfs in today's notes, what are you guys talking about?

Malyore · April 14

I'm gonna subclass necro lines for tanking, personally

Urzigurumash · April 14

Not that I don't think Necro is bottom tier in PvP, it is certainly, but I expect its lines will be used in some busted combos - unlike Arc.

Markytous · April 14

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not that I don't think Necro is bottom tier in PvP, it is certainly, but I expect its lines will be used in some busted combos - unlike Arc.

I'm not exactly sure that I agree because, while Arcanist is super strong damage-wise, it's so pressed for barspace in my view that even if Necromancers overall output isn't as potent it still feels flexible enough. Arcanists signature move suffers from latency issues in PVP which is a major disappointment. Also, having to use Runeblades due to this reason (Fatecarver doesn't work so Tentaculad Dread it is) further pushes rigidity into the class. Hard to open up a slot for Major Breach, Major Savagery&Prophecy or Snare Immunity without losing something either class defining or essential to proper passive utilization. The Crux system really feels strange (not that Corpses aren't strange), as Necros can plan to utilize a Corpse right after landing Blastbones or whatever. Crux is highly impactful but your entire character depends on it. Corpses feel like a win-more effect with some nice bonuses (Mystic Siphon vs Camo Hunter). idk maybe I'm wrong and Arcanist is free to slot a weapon spammable and other slottables ignoring the passives but wow. Necro feels better to play for me. Doesn't mean this necessarily makes Necro above Arcanist on the PVP tiers tho.

Urzigurumash · April 14

Oh I agree totally, I think Arcanist is a much better brawler or duelist than Cro right now, but that's all it does well, brawl or duel with a class kit. Necro is much more adaptable, this has always been one of the things the class is maybe the best at, in PvP there isn't any role it can't be optimized to play. (like "internally" optimized)

So that's what I meant, Necro is better suited to excel with Subclassing than Arc, who cant really bring in a foreign line and whose lines cant be used well in other classes.

Both stand in stark contrast to Warden, who really has 0 need of subclassing in my opinion, I've always played Warden with way more class skills than other classes, and I also expect Animal Companions to be very popular. I would put Deep Fissure and Netch on the best imaginable build, if you could draw from every tree.

Deimus · April 14

I was bracing myself for huge out of touch nerfs. Simply put this is top tier when it comes to positive Necromancer changes. You're delusional if you think Necromancer is ever going to get something like two Spec Bows in the chamber.

I encountered the bug where I couldn't cast Blastbones quite a few times, but I could never figure out what caused it so nice to see that being fixed.

Grave Lord

The Skulls corpse clause being added to the base skill is nice. Not a fan of having to slot skill B to get the full potential of skill A. Especially when when only have 10 slots. Venom skull will still be a melee skill since the speed wasn't increased or it made to be an undodgeable skill.
Death Knell is a HUGE nerf if you play heavily into the class kit, but allows you to just run Blastbones and get a much better return now.
Reusable Parts: Anything that helps sustain is needed on a Necro
Dismember: This is a great change could swap my mundus stone out with this extra pen.

Bone Tyrant

Last Gasp is still meh. Funny enough I mentioned before that they could double it and it still wouldn't be good. Give it something else or make it percent based. Next to Maturation this it's still a weaker passive, but now compared to Expert Summoner which was cut in half it might fall in line with what they want these sort of passives to hover around.
Health Avarice more healing ok
Empowering Grasp just take a portion of that 1000 damage enhancement and throw it on Skeletal Mage lol while we're at it make it a DoT like the Vengeance version. The magicka version does a shock DoT and stamina version Poison DoT and the minion either refreshes it or hits unaffected enemies nearby. The Major Maim doesn't make the skill worth it too expensive and no guarantee to cc. The entire skill has always been a frustrating mini game, but when the skill dealt damage and cc it was bloated enough to justify the risk.

Living Death

Curative Curse ok that's nice remove the debuff from Resistant Flesh
Near-Death Experience why? Necromancers running around with too strong of heals putting Polar Wind to shame? or afraid Wardens and Templars healers would be too strong with this?
Undead Confederate the one thing me and the Necro gang are always going on about is that we have too much recovery. We can't get rid of all this magicka or stamina fast enough! This is the most baffling change to me if anything this passive should've been doubled as well, but at least it cements that Living Death is the skill tree to swap out.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I was gonna edit my comment but it's been a while. I just feel like it's similar to when you have a crappy job (not that I know anything about that lol /s) and you tell your friends and significant other "It's fine, I pay my bills and get groceries..." but you don't see that it could be even better. Idk. I'm nuts I think.

This is where I've been for a while. I don't think Necro will ever be Top tier or A tier in PvP, but at least you can make it work now with lots of effort and skill. It's like the life expectancy vs expenditure by nation. Yeah the other classes are way up there, but Necromancer might be operating at its optimal efficiency.

StarOfElyon · April 15

I haven't played the game in months and instead of finding much desired buffs, I get even LESS incentive to play a Necromancer now.

Play as you want as long as you don't intend to play into the necromancer power fantasy.

Navaac223 · April 15

Urzigurumash wrote: »

There were way more buffs than nerfs in today's notes, what are you guys talking about?

Buffs :

-skull is useless, but slightly less so. You might see lvl 10 players use it in below 50 BGs

-Blastbones now costs 700 when recast, instead of 800 (reusable parts)

-Health avarice now increases healing by 3% per bone armor ability slotted... wich often equates to 3% because only bone
armor is worth slotting (ok maybe deaden pain too, wich would make a whole 6%).

-Curative curse gets a tiny bit better. Nice.

-I have no comments about dismenber last gasp and death knell, those 3 make sense

Nerfs :

-Near death experience and undead confederate get small nerfs. Doesn't make a huge difference though, but it shows zos is scared of necro getting OP

-5 corspe limit, wich makes it basically impossible to stack corpses for the niche animate blastbones builds

-Oh, idk, other classes getting much more out of subclassing than necro. An assassination/earthern heart/winter's embrace is going to be much more powerful than whatever combo you can think of involving necro lines. So yeah, necro is getting slightly buffed.. while other classes are getting OP

Urzigurumash · April 16

I definitely did not digest the change to corpses when I made that comment, and I still haven't, I need to watch some PTS clips to see how this works out with non-Necro corpses? All pets will drop corpses for all players?

I'm not sure why you're stuck on Earthern Heart, but as a huge fan of the line in olden times before sDK became a Whip class, I approve of your devotion to it.

Now that I think more clearly I can't assess Gravelord's viability at all without understanding how corpses will work.

But the changes to Dismember and Death Knell are excellent for PvP and long awaited.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 16

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not that I don't think Necro is bottom tier in PvP, it is certainly, but I expect its lines will be used in some busted combos - unlike Arc.

Meh, the 11% damage taken from Tentacular Dread will undoubtedly find its way into combos, and the raw stats from Herald of the Tome's passives are quite powerful.

Urzigurumash · April 17

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not that I don't think Necro is bottom tier in PvP, it is certainly, but I expect its lines will be used in some busted combos - unlike Arc.

Meh, the 11% damage taken from Tentacular Dread will undoubtedly find its way into combos, and the raw stats from Herald of the Tome's passives are quite powerful.

Yeah you're right, the potes definitely change this idea. That 11% is twice as strong as the newly buffed Dismember in PvP if 1%=660.

So do Warden or Sorc pets drop Corpses if you take a Cro line? They absolutely should, this whole idea needs stuff like that imo.

Zyaneth_Bal · April 17

Navaac223 wrote: »

With subclassing coming, I thought surely necro would get much better but, after thinking more about it, this gives us even less reasons to pick it in pvp. We've all been thinking about the op combinations we were about to do. How many of you have thought about using a necromancer skill line ? I'd guess not many, except those who want to make all pet builds, but we're talking about the stuff that will kill you in cyrodiil here, not troll builds.

There's a grand total of 2 skills that optimised players might be interested in : blastbones and spirit guardian. Ok maybe in duels I could see a few players making op bash buids with the goliath ult but, again, we're talking about the builds that you'll actually see in open world pvp. The thing is that blastbones is literally useless if your target is running away or if a mage guard decides to use a negate, so it's easily outmatched by pretty much every other burst skill. For example, if you picked animal companions instead of grave lord, you would have one of the best brutality/sorcery skills, a great mobility tool, major and minor breach with shalks, as well as passives that are, get this, actually good. Spirit guardian is a nice little defense boost but, come on, 16 sec duration ? Why would anyone pick this when you could take streak and take no damage because of the mobility ?

Every other necro skill is literally just a worse version of other classes' skills. Summoner's armor ? That's hurricane without the minor expedition and the dot, but with a redundant minor resolve (since vigor is almost mandatory at this point). Resistant flesh ? Coag but with less healing and a debuff for good measure, oh yeah, and a buff that lasts about as much time as the buff to ghostly embrace lasted and of course, say it with me everyone, necro passives are almost useless, whereas the draconic power passives (even though they're the weakest out of the 3 dk lines) give you 12% healing taken for free and other defensive perks. Ruinous scythe ? only used to stun with off-balanced. Nb literally has that on its spammable...

My point being : there is no reason at all to slot a necro skill line when you factor in completely busted skill lines like assassination, daedric summoning (ward + passives) and earthern heart (mostly passives : minor brutality and battle roar). Sure, necro will benefit a lot from subclassing, since they'll have access to good skills for once. Meanwhile the other classes will get so OP that necro might actually be even worse than it is right now..

The solution ?
1)Stop power creep : sometimes nerfs are warranted. Hardened ward, for example, needs to be nerfed into the ground
2)Give something cool to necro ! Every class except necro has something other classes want. Templar has JBeam, nb cloak, sorc has streak, warden has the potential to be really tanky with next to no investments in tankyness, while having awesome damage skills like northern storm, and great hots, dk has battle roar as well as many really solid skills. Arcanist.. well, I haven't played arc at all in pvp tbh, so I wouldn't know. However, their kit looks as suited to pvp as necro's.. not very. Anyways, there are a lot of skills that could be deleted on necro with absolutely no one missing them. just delete expunge and bone totem and replace them with fully thought-out skills that other classes would want in their kit

Living death isn’t bad in itself but has simply become redundant. Bone tyrant is pretty useless too.
While Grave lord is in fact one of the best skill trees for pve dd and will undoubtedly be among the most used ones.

While it’s true that some classes have loaded skill lines this doesn’t go for all unfortunately. Because if you were right and it did we would see some sort of diversity that has essentially disappeared completely instead.

Lastly, nerfs is the worst possible approach here because it is only going to limit options even further. Not to mention it is done with no regard for the original classes’ power budget and they are already falling behind naturally. And that will only serve limit our options even further. Not to mention you picked hardened ward (so original) which, I promise, you will never see in pvp again anyway because the rest of the skill line is useless and won’t see the light of day again alongside many others. Unless someone wants to handicap themselves and play the original sorc instead of a subclassing cadaver.

StarOfElyon · April 17

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not that I don't think Necro is bottom tier in PvP, it is certainly, but I expect its lines will be used in some busted combos - unlike Arc.

Meh, the 11% damage taken from Tentacular Dread will undoubtedly find its way into combos, and the raw stats from Herald of the Tome's passives are quite powerful.

Yeah you're right, the potes definitely change this idea. That 11% is twice as strong as the newly buffed Dismember in PvP if 1%=660.

So do Warden or Sorc pets drop Corpses if you take a Cro line? They absolutely should, this whole idea needs stuff like that imo.

I'm not on PTS but I doubt that non-Cro pets create corpses. They never have in the past. Only Cro summons and, mobs, and players create corpses.

StarOfElyon · April 17

I don't understand the undead confederate nerf at all. It's almost like they don't know that Necros have sustain problems when we've been complaining about playing buff simulator with the class for the longest time.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

This is an updated version of my Necro ideas thread from 2023 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633137/suggestions-for-necromancer-changes) with adjustments accounting for the Update 43 patch notes.

Death Scythe: (both morphs)
Deals more damage based on the enemy's missing health.
- Hungry Scythe: should also apply life steal to all enemies hit, in addition to healing the caster over time.

Shocking Siphon: The AOE should remain on the ground even if the tether breaks early. (Increase the radius size too)
- Mystic Siphon: the increased Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery persists even if the tether breaks early.

Flame Skull:
- Riccochet Skull/Venom Skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. (Increase travel speed)

Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)

Restoring Tether: the effects persist on the player character even if the tether breaks early.

Grave Grasp:
- Empowering Grasp: Summon three patches of skeletal claws from the ground in front of you dealing 898 frost damage. Enemies in the first area are stunned for 3 seconds, immobilized in the second area for 4 seconds, and snared in the final area by 50% for 5 seconds. Each patch applies Minor Maim to enemies hit for 10 seconds, reducing their damage done by 5%. Each area applies Minor Maim to enemies, Empower to your allies, and enhances the damage and healing of your summons by 1000. Each effect lasts 10 seconds.

- Ghostly Embrace: Summon three patches of skeletal claws from the ground in front of you, dealing 1742 Frost Damage and an additional 1635 Frost Damage over 5 seconds. The initial hit applies the Chilled status effect. The final area creates a corpse if at least one enemy was hit.

Expunge: reduces the cost of all your abilities by 3% while slotted on either bar.

Bitter Harvest: when slotted on either bar, reduces your damage taken by 3%.

Boneyard increase the radius to 8 meters.

PASSIVES:
Corpse Consumption: When you consume a corpse, you generate 10 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 16 seconds. You also gain Major Savagery and Prophecy for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Critical rating by 2629.

Undead Confederate: While you have a Sacrificial Bones, Skeletal Mage, or Spirit Mender active, your Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery is increased by 200. You also gain Major Brutality and Sorcery for 20 seconds, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.

ULTIMATES:
Frozen Colossus: Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Glacial Colossus: does frost damage and stuns enemies on the second hit instead of the third.
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground only once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time.

CameraBeardThePirate · April 17

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not that I don't think Necro is bottom tier in PvP, it is certainly, but I expect its lines will be used in some busted combos - unlike Arc.

Meh, the 11% damage taken from Tentacular Dread will undoubtedly find its way into combos, and the raw stats from Herald of the Tome's passives are quite powerful.

Yeah you're right, the potes definitely change this idea. That 11% is twice as strong as the newly buffed Dismember in PvP if 1%=660.

So do Warden or Sorc pets drop Corpses if you take a Cro line? They absolutely should, this whole idea needs stuff like that imo.

I'm not on PTS but I doubt that non-Cro pets create corpses. They never have in the past. Only Cro summons and, mobs, and players create corpses.

Actually fun fact: Mad Tinkerer used to create a corpse. It won't anymore now that they've changed it to be a non-pet.

Scav Demise and Defiler also both created corpses in the past, but only for a brief moment (like you'd have to use a consumption ability the very moment the effects end). This was a few years ago so I'm not sure if this is still the case or if they still count as pets.

Since all of their changes to corpses the last couple years, I doubt any non-necro pets create them anymore.

IncultaWolf · April 17

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not that I don't think Necro is bottom tier in PvP, it is certainly, but I expect its lines will be used in some busted combos - unlike Arc.

Meh, the 11% damage taken from Tentacular Dread will undoubtedly find its way into combos, and the raw stats from Herald of the Tome's passives are quite powerful.

Yeah you're right, the potes definitely change this idea. That 11% is twice as strong as the newly buffed Dismember in PvP if 1%=660.

So do Warden or Sorc pets drop Corpses if you take a Cro line? They absolutely should, this whole idea needs stuff like that imo.

I'm not on PTS but I doubt that non-Cro pets create corpses. They never have in the past. Only Cro summons and, mobs, and players create corpses.

Mad tinkerer use to create a corpse you could consume if it died without rolling, which only happens if the enemy died as soon as it spawned in.(just got reworked on pts so it doesn't happen anymore) The spider spawned from the trapping webs synergy also creates a corpse you can consume as a necromancer.

IncultaWolf · April 17

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Not that I don't think Necro is bottom tier in PvP, it is certainly, but I expect its lines will be used in some busted combos - unlike Arc.

Meh, the 11% damage taken from Tentacular Dread will undoubtedly find its way into combos, and the raw stats from Herald of the Tome's passives are quite powerful.

Yeah you're right, the potes definitely change this idea. That 11% is twice as strong as the newly buffed Dismember in PvP if 1%=660.

So do Warden or Sorc pets drop Corpses if you take a Cro line? They absolutely should, this whole idea needs stuff like that imo.

I'm not on PTS but I doubt that non-Cro pets create corpses. They never have in the past. Only Cro summons and, mobs, and players create corpses.

Actually fun fact: Mad Tinkerer used to create a corpse. It won't anymore now that they've changed it to be a non-pet.

Scav Demise and Defiler also both created corpses in the past, but only for a brief moment (like you'd have to use a consumption ability the very moment the effects end). This was a few years ago so I'm not sure if this is still the case or if they still count as pets.

Since all of their changes to corpses the last couple years, I doubt any non-necro pets create them anymore.

Maw of the infernal does too still, but you have to be REALLY fast as it despawns, you can see the blue corpse glow as it disappears.

StarOfElyon · April 18

Urzigurumash · April 20

Yeah, as this corpse change sinks in, as I just lost a BG to a Corpsebusting Cro absolutely shredding, I think I must totally retract my prior statement that the buffs exceed the nerfs, and apologize to any whose judgement I slandered.

The buffs to individual passives are great for subclassing, but if the Pure Class engine is now starved for fuel, it's all for the worse for Necro mains.

(I dont have PTS tho so I'm taking others word for it about the corpse change)

sans-culottes · April 20

The corpse nerfs are not only baffling but excessive. Maybe it’s time to rework this clumsy system.

StarOfElyon · April 20

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Yeah, as this corpse change sinks in, as I just lost a BG to a Corpsebusting Cro absolutely shredding, I think I must totally retract my prior statement that the buffs exceed the nerfs, and apologize to any whose judgement I slandered.

The buffs to individual passives are great for subclassing, but if the Pure Class engine is now starved for fuel, it's all for the worse for Necro mains.

(I dont have PTS tho so I'm taking others word for it about the corpse change)

It's crazy because this class DID NOT need a nerf at all! And they nerfed the recoveries from Undead Confederate. So summoning skills are not only weak but now they lose passive benefit, solidifying Necro as a subclass picked only for passives.

necro_the_crafter · April 20

StarOfElyon wrote: »

It's crazy because this class DID NOT need a nerf at all! And they nerfed the recoveries from Undead Confederate. So summoning skills are not only weak but now they lose passive benefit, solidifying Necro as a subclass picked only for passives.

reality is quite the opposite. necros will be one of the best classes to subcclass from. grave lord one of the best offensive skillines, and native necros can push it further with corpsebooster, wich others cannot do. Also only native necros can use bone tyrant to full potential, as other classes cannot supply enough corpses to benefit from necrotic potency/deaden pain, and only native necros can use it alongside grave lord or living death.

New corpse limit is a real bummer though. They shoudnt introduce it as it is now, and instead plan to rework this system entirly, especially if it causes performance issues. And Spirit Guardian is super heavy on sustain if running it without Grave Lord or Bone tyrant, as you missing either summoners armor cost reduction or reusable parts.