I thought gear sets were all about passive boosts to stats and-- in the case of "proc" sets-- effects that fire off by themselves? What do those things have to do with "skill"?

One could just as easily claim that players like to credit their wins on skill, and not admit how much difference gear and builds make. Clearly those things do matter, otherwise players wouldn't spend time on acquiring whatever gear is the current META, or worry so much about builds that give the best min/max numbers. Skill is obviously important, too, but it's difficult to judge one player's skill against another's when one player's gear and build are much more powerful than the other player's. /shrug

My advice to people who complain about performance, go buy yourself an upgraded computer and sign up for the fastest intemet. ESO will run fine 99% of the time.

As for templated PVP, if it becomes a permanent thing, just make it its own dedicated campaign and allow for the option to also play the existing game mode. Let the player base decide on what they want to play.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

I don't get why it'd be more skill focused - aren't skills tied to specific builds and sets?

It wouldn't. Players just like to blame their losses on gear or builds, and not admit they were outplayed.

While a lot of players like to blame their losses on gear/builds despite beeing outplayed having a gear build advantage very often decides fights before they even start so much that a bad build player will often loose to a good build player even when totally outplaying him blocking/dodging/evading all their bursts while hitting all their own unmitigated.

Most outplayed players blaming their loss on gear probably know they were outplayed and even have better gear than their killers but admitting defeat is an even bigger defeat and means your opinion is no longer valid and you better quit the game as you are too bad to play and can only zerg(especially if you are soloplayer).

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

One could just as easily claim that players like to credit their wins on skill, and not admit how much difference gear and builds make.

Sure there are always cheese strats like Rushing Agony, but a lot of these guys think that they're suddenly going to be gods once you remove the build system. They're going to be in for a rude awakening.

Sure most who think they will be gods without builds are wrong but many players are right and will be competitive without builds and players carried by builds will not be anymore and have their rude awakening. Thats why meta chaser are against buildless PvP, it is not because of build diversity as they use one of few almost identical builds anyway.

With a good build I could probably 1vX me with a bad build or players that beat me with bad build.
I knew how to block/dodge/move/attack long before I knew how to build.

This will be the death of Cyrodiil if it goes live on a mandatory basis.

moo_2021 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Big pros for me:
- There will be no proc sets at all, so no annoying pull/push sets & burst dmg sets.
- Limited skills (class only), so no Scribing, no Vamp, no Resto or Destro staff dominance.

So, everything fun would be gone. Might as well make a boxing match instead.

NO for me.


I don't get why it'd be more skill focused - aren't skills tied to specific builds and sets?

It would absolutely be more skillful.

There is nothing skill focused about a raid lead in an organized group pressing a skill which is only supposed to be a gap closer, and instead it pull in everything 12 meters away and then pressing another button that will (again) remove control of their opponents' characters, to then have their 11 buddies PBAoE the whole area. That combination is not driven by the player ability, which is just a gap closer, it is 100% driven by the set which sucks all the players in and fails to provide CC immunity.

This has been PvP since 2016 with Vipers+Red Mountain+Velidreth which saw players once dying to actual abilities (the vast majority of which respected global cooldowns) to now dying gear sets which were playing the game and allowing players to bypass the whole reason why ZOS bother having global cooldowns as a core mechanic in the first place.

If that's the "fun" that will be lost, I'm certain a lot of people will drop in to at least try it out.

Vengeance will fail or succeed whether or not ZOS is lazy and is more concerned with selling mounts in the Crown Store.

If ZOS makes the mistake they did with Ravenwatch and just lazily decides "no proc sets are allowed" such that they just type a single line of code eliminating all sets with an effect no actual PvPer would consider a proc (for example, Clever Alchemist), then Vengeance will most likely be just as stale and uninteresting as Ravenwatch when the novelty wears off and the organized groups figure out they can still exploit the templates ZOS is handing to us without even asking us if they are good ideas.

If ZOS decides to take two days out of their busy schedule and actually come up with a list of abused and disruptive proc sets that plays the game to exclude and makes this clear to all participants, then that might form the basis of having some potential. It will all depend on whether or not these templates makes for interesting and competitive gameplay. As it is, I already feel like Cyrodiil is already full of templates (oh look, there's another max mag Sorc with Alfiq, Wretched, Chuden hitting me with the Scribed skill that gives them Major Vitality, Frags, Curse and using the old Streak, Ward, Dark convergence combo when their health dips under 60%).

My main worry is that ZOS honestly thinks that meh PvP classes like Necro, Arcanist, and Templar will be able to do diddly squat if they are stuck just using their unimpressive class kits. They better pay long attention to the feedback they do get when this test is put on the servers.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I thought gear sets were all about passive boosts to stats and-- in the case of "proc" sets-- effects that fire off by themselves? What do those things have to do with "skill"?

You can't get better at killing by randomly procing off effects, as compared to better stats.

Sets need matching conditions and/or timing to maximize burst damage.

A handful of broken sets is no excuse to drop the entire feature.

This isn't intended to be fun or interesting, it's literally a test to see if Cyrodiil can run well if they cut everything out and just break it down to the bare minimum.

if it's a lag fest under these conditions then they need to rebuild from scratch or ditch the entire thing as unworkable.

This is stage 1 is working out what the problem is. I expect after this we get class skills back, no cp, no sets, no weapon or guild skills.
something like that anyway. gradually reintroduce parts of the game until the lagging comes back, then step back and see if it can be fixed

I wonder if the obnoxiously flashy stuff (like Radiant Apex mounts) can be disabled in the Vengeance campaign, just to see if the client-side performance would possibly improve on lower-end devices.

Maitsukas wrote: »

I wonder if the obnoxiously flashy stuff (like Radiant Apex mounts) can be disabled in the Vengeance campaign, just to see if the client-side performance would possibly improve on lower-end devices.

The one or two animations probably isnt as much of an issue as the 12xPlayers stacking 20x 20s hots and buffs spamming aoe that hits 20 players with 20x effect chances.

Reduce the number of random proc, stack, effects bloating the game and then make hots and dots nolonger stack like they used to before pve power creep demanded it.

I'm terrified that ZOS will make this rule set mandatory for all camps. That will be the end of ESO for me if they do.

moo_2021 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Big pros for me:
- There will be no proc sets at all, so no annoying pull/push sets & burst dmg sets.
- Limited skills (class only), so no Scribing, no Vamp, no Resto or Destro staff dominance.

So, everything fun would be gone. Might as well make a boxing match instead.

NO for me.


I don't get why it'd be more skill focused - aren't skills tied to specific builds and sets?

So you prefer your sets to kill other players not your actual abilities!

When this campaign will be available for testing?

Cast_El wrote: »

When this campaign will be available for testing?

Think they mentioned in the U45 Preview stream, that it should be on PTS with today's patch.