People always assuming the worst.

opalcity · December 19

It's nice that there are a lot of optimistic players, but it's like Charlie Brown, Lucy, and that football.

For a lot of people, they finally got fed up of Zos pulling the ball away and are now wary of the promises.

For me, I keep my hopes high but expectations low.

Arunei · December 19

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

If they don't want us to react negatively, they should probably avoid using a loaded term like "seasons". Seasons can take a lot of different forms in gaming, but those forms all have one thing in common, some amount of monetized FOMO.

ZOS has at least clarified that they won't be retiring seasonal "content" like some games, but that doesn't mean they won't be offering battle passes or other types of time-limited seasonal rewards (or activities).

We even have a preview of what this new seasonal treadmill is going to look like in the form of the current Golden Pursuits. They're basically a free battle pass that forces grinding of specific content that people wouldn't otherwise choose to do (because they don't find it fun), just to get exclusive time-limited cosmetics.

If all they were doing was getting rid of chapters and replacing them with smaller, less regular content drops, they would have picked a different word for their new model.

Or they decided to call the new release cadence Seasons after, y'know, seasons irl. Seasons come and go, bringing whatever weather and all as they change. Same thing with Seasons for the game; new content will be released every few months, each Season bringing new weather (content).

Just because battlepasses tend to be seasonal as well doesn't meant we need to go throwing around battlepass conspiracies. I keep seeing people bring it up but like...genuinely ZOS is just calling the new cadence cycle Seasons. It's just a word to describe how they're doing content, like Chapters was.

spartaxoxo · December 19

There's a lot of people here who take something like AWA and exaggerate how often it happens and apply it to everything, regardless if it makes sense as a comparison.

There's also ones that act like ZOS makes no mistakes and players are ialways the one wrong.

The truth is that ZOS has made some really good changes and some really awful ones. The best way to know what they'll do is to look at their precedent with the exact same type of content.

Like take seasons....we should be comparing this to other release schedules they've had.

Let's look at some recent stuff.

We had the 10 year anniversary skin. We got plenty of nice cosmetics and the like. The new companions are permanent unlocks once purchased, even if that purchase was through plus. We also had several fomo rewards like the bonus mount when Gold Road launched, bonus endeavor days, and the golden pursuits

Personally, I think that seasons will probably be similar. But with smaller but more frequent content drops like the new companions, updates battle grounds, activity finder, etc. We'll probably get stuff like the scribing quest line rather than a whole zone.

Anyway, that's what I personally think. But we'll have to wait and see.

Coerfroid · December 19

I don't know if we are really talking "assuming the worst" here. The feedback so far is actually mixed, and there are also some hopeful expectations based on planned improvements already vaguely hinted in the announcement.
But the less information actually is provided, the more will expectations be based on experience and the core player base does have a 10 year experience of announcements and actual results to make at least some educated guesses.

Apart from guessing, it is absolutely justified to ask questions, especially concerning the future of the subscription model.
We already know that most questions will probably not be answered before April, so a lot more guessing (or call it assuming) will happen until then, unless ZoS will place some more of their cards on the table.
I actually do not think that the feedback so far is very surprising, so that is probably not what they are waiting for. Some solid marketing data for the Destiny 2 monetarization model should also be available, so the math is maybe already done as well. As for actual details of upcoming content, we already have an honest "nothing much yet" as an answer and that's of little relevance for the other questions, like "how much will I get and what will it cost me?"

the1andonlyskwex · December 19

Arunei wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

If they don't want us to react negatively, they should probably avoid using a loaded term like "seasons". Seasons can take a lot of different forms in gaming, but those forms all have one thing in common, some amount of monetized FOMO.

ZOS has at least clarified that they won't be retiring seasonal "content" like some games, but that doesn't mean they won't be offering battle passes or other types of time-limited seasonal rewards (or activities).

We even have a preview of what this new seasonal treadmill is going to look like in the form of the current Golden Pursuits. They're basically a free battle pass that forces grinding of specific content that people wouldn't otherwise choose to do (because they don't find it fun), just to get exclusive time-limited cosmetics.

If all they were doing was getting rid of chapters and replacing them with smaller, less regular content drops, they would have picked a different word for their new model.

Or they decided to call the new release cadence Seasons after, y'know, seasons irl. Seasons come and go, bringing whatever weather and all as they change. Same thing with Seasons for the game; new content will be released every few months, each Season bringing new weather (content).

Just because battlepasses tend to be seasonal as well doesn't meant we need to go throwing around battlepass conspiracies. I keep seeing people bring it up but like...genuinely ZOS is just calling the new cadence cycle Seasons. It's just a word to describe how they're doing content, like Chapters was.

Sorry, I don't buy it. They talk about releasing new content when it's ready, instead of on a fixed schedule. Then, in the same breath they call that new release schedule "seasonal", which implies just about the most regular schedule possible, and has a well-established meaning in other games (including other games run by the same company). They also announce all of this only a couple of months after releasing Golden Pursuits, which look an awful lot like a prototype for a battlepass. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

tomofhyrule · December 19

Estin wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

A lot of it is looking at trends. Even consider this year - the Q3 patch this year promised Housing content, and people hyped themselves up for certain highly-requested things (that were previously explicitly declared impossible by the devs, but that's a different issue). And then we got something that, while it is a nice feature, is something that's more like a bonus feature than a tentpole itself. The Q4 patch promised PvP content, and people hyped themselves up for Cyrodiil, and then the content ended up being a tear-down-and-rebuild of one of the less popular PvP modes, which was laden with bugs and discontent. And now... we're getting plenty of time again to speculate what's coming before the devs deign to give us any other information. This just sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Relating to recent talks of better communication, this is what I wish they'll improve on when it comes to it. Keeping future content details a secret from the player base rarely does any good. We're mostly given 10,000 level views months prior to it's reveal, and all it leads to is a lot of speculation with each player setting their own expectations. I understand that it can generate hype around an update, but more often than not, it causes massive disappointment because each player was expecting something different.

I hope with the seasonal approach, they can start giving us much more detailed outlines of what they're planning to do months in advanced. OSRS has been doing it for years and has seen much success from it. They don't need to spill everything, and can even keep some surprises, but detailed plans will do nothing but good imo. Yes, there will still be a lot of complaints, but not nearly as much I feel, and there is the possibility that genuine feedback can be implemented before it becomes a hassle to do. I work as a developer too, nowhere near the scale of this game, but I understand the hassle around building something and then being asked to make X change/implementation. It's much easier to make those changes long before the product is finished since it can be built with them in mind.

This is one thing that I’ve heard a lot of positive feedback about - the fact that we’re essentially getting a monthly “roadmap” of what to expect right now. Of course, these are all in the context of the anniversary so a lot of people are expecting that those will go away once the year-long celebration is done, but it would be a really good idea for ZOS to keep having roadmaps like that.

I get that they want us to be surprised by what’s coming. But realistically, these excitement generated from a surprise pales in comparison to the disappointment generated when people are given tantalizing teases and then allowed to hype themselves up for something that ends up not materializing.

Alaztor91 · December 19

We could get more ''small'' DLC like Hew's Bane/Gold Coast, that would be ok with me since imo those 2 are superior to most other ''Q4 Zone DLC'' that ZOS has released.

We could on the other hand get more stuff like the ''Home Tours'' we got on Q3 this year.

To me it just looks like ZOS is focusing even more on their new unannounced MMO, as we go from Q3 Dungeon/Q4 Zone DLC being cut to now Chapters no longer being a thing and releases having no specific dates after Q1 2025. Hopefully I'm wrong.

xylena_lazarow · December 19

Didn't everyone complain that the chapter format had gone stale, and these big epics of saving the multiverse were played out? Might not be what people wanted to hear, but it's what they asked for.

forum_gpt · December 19

It's not just about assumptions—ZOS has let people down enough times that it’s natural for the player base to expect the worst. Promises have been broken, systems introduced only to be abandoned, and major issues have gone ignored for years. Trust is earned, and ZOS has unfortunately burned through a lot of it.

While I agree it’s good to try something different, players are justified in their skepticism. Change doesn’t automatically mean improvement, and without transparency or proof of long-term commitment, people are going to doubt the direction. Here’s hoping ZOS actually delivers something that can rebuild trust instead of further eroding it.

anadandy · December 19

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Ingenon wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

No addons on the console. And although PC players far outnumber console we do exist.

Where is the source for player counts on each platform? I have tried finding this using search engines and come up empty.

Separately, rumors I hear are that total PC player count, and total console player count are roughly equal.

I made an informal poll a few months ago on the forums and I believe it was about 30% console, the rest PC. I just get irritated that so many seem to assume that everyone must have addons...

Agreed. I'm primarily a PC player but I have an Xbox acxt to play with friends that only have consoles. The amount of "we don't need x feature because an add on does it" is frustrating. Simple QoL stuff like treasure map and survey pins, or anything with the god awful guild trader system. If PC players had to.use those as is on console - whole different tune would be sung.

ZOS perpetuates this sometimes, in my opinion, because they don't make these little QoL change BECAUSE there's an add on and it makes them complacent.

VDoom1 · December 19

It is not without reason or cause.

I agree people should not run around and scream "fire! fire!" if there is in fact no fire.
Meaning people shouldn't expect or assume the worst for no reason.

However, with that said perhaps players are disappointed, pessimistic and cynical for a reason. Perhaps it is based on previous experience. One could also take other games as an example, what has happened when other games have gone down a similar path? Have things actually improved as promised, or did things just go from bad to worse?

I'd love to be more optimistic! I like to be positive and usually I am quite positive and try to look on the bright side of things. I want to hope and think that ESO will only get better in the future.

But, we have reason to be skeptical. We shall have to wait and see how things go, hope that the future is bright for ESO.

Coo_PnT · December 19

I probably will not pay this company in the future. I will just wait and see next year.
If it looks interesting I will watch Twitch and Youtube and make a decision.

Arunei · December 19

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

If they don't want us to react negatively, they should probably avoid using a loaded term like "seasons". Seasons can take a lot of different forms in gaming, but those forms all have one thing in common, some amount of monetized FOMO.

ZOS has at least clarified that they won't be retiring seasonal "content" like some games, but that doesn't mean they won't be offering battle passes or other types of time-limited seasonal rewards (or activities).

We even have a preview of what this new seasonal treadmill is going to look like in the form of the current Golden Pursuits. They're basically a free battle pass that forces grinding of specific content that people wouldn't otherwise choose to do (because they don't find it fun), just to get exclusive time-limited cosmetics.

If all they were doing was getting rid of chapters and replacing them with smaller, less regular content drops, they would have picked a different word for their new model.

Or they decided to call the new release cadence Seasons after, y'know, seasons irl. Seasons come and go, bringing whatever weather and all as they change. Same thing with Seasons for the game; new content will be released every few months, each Season bringing new weather (content).

Just because battlepasses tend to be seasonal as well doesn't meant we need to go throwing around battlepass conspiracies. I keep seeing people bring it up but like...genuinely ZOS is just calling the new cadence cycle Seasons. It's just a word to describe how they're doing content, like Chapters was.

Sorry, I don't buy it. They talk about releasing new content when it's ready, instead of on a fixed schedule. Then, in the same breath they call that new release schedule "seasonal", which implies just about the most regular schedule possible, and has a well-established meaning in other games (including other games run by the same company). They also announce all of this only a couple of months after releasing Golden Pursuits, which look an awful lot like a prototype for a battlepass. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

It doesn't imply anything like that, seeing as the letter states Seasons will vary in length and will NOT be a fixed release cycle like Chapters are. The letter CLEARLY SAYS why they are going to this new release cycle and people are ignoring that reasoning in favor of doomsaying and conspiracy theories.

People have been asking for a new release cycle and other changes to content for ages now. It says that plainly in the letter. The devs never had a real chance to experiment with new systems and other things because of the time crunch of their current release model...which is clearly stated in the letter, and is why Season length will vary. It'll give them more freedom in how they work on content.

How do Golden Pursuits look anything like a battlepass? They're literally just Endeavors 2.0, you don't pay anything for access to them. If you want to criticize anything about Golden Pursuits then at least make a fitting argument of FOMO for them.

Sometimes there's smoke but no fire. You ever accidentally spill oil on the engine when topping up? Sometimes a situation isn't nearly as bad as it might seem, though there always will be the people who are terrified the engine is going to explode as the oil burns off and makes smoke.

And again, just because X or Y has been used to describe Z doesn't mean X/Y is going to always mean that thing every single time it's used. Especially considering ZOS has already said that as Seasons end, the content will remain in the game. Just like it is for Chapters and other DLC. It's the same thing, we're just getting content throughout the year instead of all at once like with big Chapter releases.

Now if it turns out I'm wrong and ZOS purposefully worded things to mislead people, then I'll own up to it. But I'm not going to worry about stuff we either have reasons given for, or have next to no information on at the moment. There's no reason to worry about a battlepass model for the game when they've literally told us the reason for changing release cycles and assured us content won't vanish from the game at the end of each Season.

Syldras · December 20

If it's just smaller dlcs released throughout the year, like it was in the earlier years of ESO, I'm wondering why they call it "seasons" and introduce it as new?

Grizzbeorn · December 20

Syldras wrote: »

I'm wondering why they call it "seasons" and introduce it as new?

Probably to make it sound like they're keeping up with the Joneses (American idiom), since so many other contemporary games feature Seasons.

I think they should go another direction, instead, and do something to make ESO unique.
Doing what a great many other games do is kinda lame, in my eyes. I don't want to play a game that works like something else that already exists, especially where Seasons is concerned. It's been done to death.
Boring.

Lalothen · December 20

My views on this are mixed (leaning towards negative).

The annual chapters + new landmasses to explore have frankly gone somewhat downhill since they were introduced, with the only thing really "saving" Gold Road being Scribing for me - so from that point of view it's good that they're changing things up. The thing is I'm wary of anything ZOS does these days. After dealing with so many turd burger updates, especially in more recent years - it didn't start with U35, but that was probably one of the worst - and the staunchly obtuse "talking to a brick wall" attitude taken with a great deal of PTS feedback (feedback that could've saved ZOS A LOT of negative post-patch PR over the years if they'd bothered to listen), I don't really have much faith left in their ability to either listen to, or deliver what players want.

I've voted with my wallet: my annual sub ends next April and the automatic re-sub has been cancelled. I'll be pleasantly surprised if whatever ZOS have in store for 2025 onwards makes me change that decision. They're pretty late to the party given how other, older MMOS have already bitten the bullet, switched things up - and importantly have chosen to actually listen to their players - and are enjoying a resurgence as a result.... but I guess better late than never?

Whether it'll be "lesson learned" or just more of the same - only in smaller, bitesize packages (giving us less bang for our buck) - remains to be seen.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · December 20

Artem_gig wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

…. (in my case, this is the majority of the players I met, all of them as one asked for what was said in the letter)

And yet if you look at the poll in another thread, most people are unhappy. People group and talk with other people with similar mindsets, that is fine. Their needs/wants will also be similar.

But if you say asked people in an RP guild (for example) your responses would be much different on “what’s important”.

Same as casual guilds, housing guilds, trading guilds… Each one will give you different answers.

the survey still does not give the whole truth, because the interest in the survey is greater among those people who want to discuss their dissatisfaction, while those who are happy with everything just read the letter and finally calmed down. And do not add me to the fact that I am one of those who asked for this, on the contrary, I just looked at the forum threads starting in 2018, and every year I saw the same requests that were announced in this letter. And not only from the EN forums, but also the German forum and the Russian forum. Believe me, it is the same there (or check it yourself). Therefore, it is strange for me to see messages "Why are they adding something that no one asked for?" They are adding exactly what was discussed in the forum most often. The complication of battles in the overland is the most common thing I have seen on the forums (on par with the fix of Cyrodiil). Updating base locations is in second place in popularity. The change in the system of release of add-ons only appeared in the last month.

I don't judge the opinions of players from guilds, because the developers don't sit in these guilds, I judge by the forum users.

And many of the people “I met” wanted furniture bags, increased housing limits, and the reintroduction of smaller houses.

They also wanted pve group sizes to go back to 24 people, racial stats to reflect the lore, and housing plans to be easier farmed.

They also wanted story modes for dungeons and trials, additional animal skins for wardens and sorcs, and a pve version of IC and Cyrodiil.

All of these have been mentioned on the forums as well (go check) and yet it did not get mentioned in the letter.

Not everyone is the same, people play the game differently that is why there is a variety of things to do in the game.

Now everyone you “met” who all apparently agree with each other (although apparently you don’t? So not unanimous after all I guess.) may want the same thing. But that does not make those views universal.

There was very little in that letter that I support. Only better guild tools was nice. Everything else was terrible. It has destroyed my even wanting to log into the game anymore. It all seems pointless.

Now you see? You just met someone who does not agree with the letter. And by the poll, around 60% of the people are also unhappy because what they wanted was ignored. I hate to burst your bubble but this letter was not good news to a great deal of players.

There will always be dissatisfied people, there are no universal updates, because there are even those who consider the house limits more than sufficient and do not want them to be increased. The fact that you do not like these updates does not make them bad. They have been requested for many years. Right now, go to the official thread with reviews on the difficulty of Overland and you will see that a huge number are asking to make it harder. I personally know almost 30 people (already from guilds that left the game due to the lack of enjoyable combat) and on the forums they have also asked many times to update this aspect. The fact that they did not mention what you wrote does not mean that it will not happen, because as was said in the letter, they will experiment with EVERYTHING that players asked for, but they mentioned only a little, what players started asking for a long time ago.

The historical problem is what players ask for and what ZOS delivers are frequently far apart. It is why I highly doubt players are going to see many of the requested the changes in the form they hope for and will just drive more players from the game.

Elvenheart · December 20

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

the "Home Tours" feature was already available through an addon.

Which did absolutely nothing for all of the players who play the game on console, or through some online service that doesn't allow addons (I'm not sure whether GeForce Now does or not). How dare ZOS try to enhance their game in a way that benefits players on all platforms alike.

I just wanted to say thank you to @SeaGtGruff and others who always try to be a voice of reason on these forums and keep things in perspective. It is very appreciated because of how negative the forums can be sometimes. 😊

TaSheen · December 20

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

The historical problem is what players ask for and what ZOS delivers are frequently far apart. It is why I highly doubt players are going to see many of the requested the changes in the form they hope for and will just drive more players from the game.

Yes. Bottom line. Very succinctly stated, and appreciated.

TybaltKaine · December 20

Negativity is easy because it takes less work. It's easy to look back and be wistful for what has come and gone as opposed to having a little faith and looking forward to something positive. When you look back you end up calcified and rooted in the past, desiring so much of what you had that you easily look past what you have.

That's kind of human nature, and it's hard to fight against.

I'm looking forward to seeing what new things they can provide us, and I've accepted that not all of it will be for me, because I'm not the only person playing this game. As long as I can find joy in what is being given, I'll continue playing.

No reason to worry about what hasn't happened yet.

Syldras · December 20

The thing that caused me to like the newer chapters less compared to the older ones wasn't that the chapter format was getting boring, but that the first few chapters set a high standard in terms of quality that the later from my point of view didn't reach. So, not a matter of the format, but of quality - which is in the end everything that counts for me, no matter in which way the new content will be delivered.

Btw, I know that some users have criticized that the chapter format with always the same number of new delves, world bosses, some type of world event, etc, was too predictable. Honestly I never understood why it was always kept the same, as first of all a new zone is just a new piece of land with new locations and new npcs (which means new stories) - what to do with that place could be open to all kinds of ideas.

Arunei · December 22

Syldras wrote: »

If it's just smaller dlcs released throughout the year, like it was in the earlier years of ESO, I'm wondering why they call it "seasons" and introduce it as new?

Likely because seasons last 3 months, and they're saying the new release cadence will be every three to four months. It's like you can call every release of Crown Crates seasons, which is how I refer to them.