Why doesn't the Heal Absorption for Borrowed Time (Time Stop Morph) Scale with Weapon/Spell Damage?

Avran_Sylt · November 19

Heals typically scale with Weapon and Spell Damage, so shouldn't a Heal Negation ability also try to scale with Weapon and Spell Damage?

YandereGirlfriend · November 19

This is actually a pretty cool suggestion. Heal Absorption in all forms could stand to be buffed.

Necrotech_Master · November 19

yeah heal absorption is both uncommon and woefully underpowered

most avg heal absorb skills only do about 4500 heal absorb, the avg heal most people can do is at least equal up to double of that

in a 1v1 it might be ok at countering like 5 sec worth of a single hot, but with 2 hots and a burst heal most heal absorb lasts maybe 2 GCD if that

Avran_Sylt · November 19

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah heal absorption is both uncommon and woefully underpowered

most avg heal absorb skills only do about 4500 heal absorb, the avg heal most people can do is at least equal up to double of that

in a 1v1 it might be ok at countering like 5 sec worth of a single hot, but with 2 hots and a burst heal most heal absorb lasts maybe 2 GCD if that

There's also the fact that it only applies the Healing absorption if the skill lands the stun (so if they're CC immune it can't apply the healing negation), and that the player doesn't move out of the zone, or that you don't get interrupted in any manner while performing the channel.

Given the channel itself, you can view the total healing absorption as half it's actual value when considering it compared to other abilities that can be tossed out twice (plus weaving), in the time it would take for the skill to complete.

So it's effectively 2500 heal absorption per second on CC vulnerable targets (that then lose their CC vulnerability once the skill lands, while doing no damage) that stay within an area for at least 2 seconds so long as you're not interrupted. (That also is ineffective against damage shields).

Necrotech_Master · November 19

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

yeah heal absorption is both uncommon and woefully underpowered

most avg heal absorb skills only do about 4500 heal absorb, the avg heal most people can do is at least equal up to double of that

in a 1v1 it might be ok at countering like 5 sec worth of a single hot, but with 2 hots and a burst heal most heal absorb lasts maybe 2 GCD if that

There's also the fact that it only applies the Healing absorption if the skill lands the stun (so if they're CC immune it can't apply the healing negation), and that the player doesn't move out of the zone, or that you don't get interrupted in any manner while performing the channel.

Given the channel itself, you can view the total healing absorption as half it's actual value when considering it compared to other abilities that can be tossed out twice (plus weaving), in the time it would take for the skill to complete.

So it's effectively 2500 heal absorption per second on CC vulnerable targets (that then lose their CC vulnerability once the skill lands, while doing no damage) that stay within an area for at least 2 seconds so long as you're not interrupted. (That also is ineffective against damage shields).

i was also thinking along the lines of the proc set that does heal absorb, but that one has a slow easy to avoid telegraph and small area of effect

but with the cooldown on the set, it would have even lower heal absorb per sec than the psijic skill

almost better off just stacking major/minor defile in the end

BixenteN7Akantor · November 19

Playing as Tank sometimes, I know well about Heal Absorption from enemies in Dungeons and Trials ^^
But the Heal Absorption you can apply is extremely rare :
-Borrowed Time skill
-Soldier of Anguish set
-Poison of Heroism (yes yes)
-Trauma script
Annnnnd that's all !

Avran_Sylt · November 19

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

Playing as Tank sometimes, I know well about Heal Absorption from enemies in Dungeons and Trials ^^
But the Heal Absorption you can apply is extremely rare :
-Borrowed Time skill
-Soldier of Anguish set
-Poison of Heroism (yes yes)
-Trauma script
Annnnnd that's all !

Interesting, I didn't know about the posion and trauma script.

Does the Trauma script scale with anything, or is it flat value?

robpr · November 21

ZoS always was scared shitless about this effect. Soldier of Anguish used to just apply the effect, barely anyone used it or complained about it and it got nerfed to leave a rune on the ground.

robpr · November 21

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

BixenteN7Akantor wrote: »

Playing as Tank sometimes, I know well about Heal Absorption from enemies in Dungeons and Trials ^^
But the Heal Absorption you can apply is extremely rare :
-Borrowed Time skill
-Soldier of Anguish set
-Poison of Heroism (yes yes)
-Trauma script
Annnnnd that's all !

Interesting, I didn't know about the posion and trauma script.

Does the Trauma script scale with anything, or is it flat value?

Checked out of curiosity, and indeed Trauma scales of damage stat. The problem is that the healing around is so strong you would have to apply trauma all the time to get any meaningful result, and script is available only to Elemental Explosion and Trample, skills with lengthy cast time. Elemental Explosion have a slightly higher trauma value than Trample, and both skills can also apply minor defile. Tooltip with 4.7k weapon damage:

Taril · November 21

Healing Absorb would really need an overhaul in how it is implemented to really become a thing.

The way that Healing Absorb functions as a mechanic, is that it prolongs the window for which burst damage can be dangerous, by providing that buffer before someone can begin to recover via healing. (For other games this can force usage of less resource efficient but more time efficient skill usage, since you need to overcome the buffer AND then restore the target to a safe level of health)

Healing Absorb by itself, is useless. It has to be paired up with a source of damage to matter, otherwise it's not doing anything. With this damage needing to be focused around bursting a target to death to have a significant impact.

Even when considering burst windows, the current game has shields being prevalent (And quite powerful) which is unaffected by heal absorb at all.

Overall, the mechanic is flawed in ESO due to:

1) Low values
2) Low duration
3) Invalidation by common shield abilities

Meanwhile, you have the much better Defile which is not only more available, it doesn't come instead of damage (It's an Affix Script or secondary effect on skills) AND it affects shields too.

Avran_Sylt · November 25

Taril wrote: »

Healing Absorb would really need an overhaul in how it is implemented to really become a thing.

The way that Healing Absorb functions as a mechanic, is that it prolongs the window for which burst damage can be dangerous, by providing that buffer before someone can begin to recover via healing. (For other games this can force usage of less resource efficient but more time efficient skill usage, since you need to overcome the buffer AND then restore the target to a safe level of health)

Healing Absorb by itself, is useless. It has to be paired up with a source of damage to matter, otherwise it's not doing anything. With this damage needing to be focused around bursting a target to death to have a significant impact.

Even when considering burst windows, the current game has shields being prevalent (And quite powerful) which is unaffected by heal absorb at all.

Overall, the mechanic is flawed in ESO due to:

1) Low values
2) Low duration
3) Invalidation by common shield abilities

Meanwhile, you have the much better Defile which is not only more available, it doesn't come instead of damage (It's an Affix Script or secondary effect on skills) AND it affects shields too.

Maybe Oblivion Damage could be reworked to act like heal absorb? (to better consolidate damage types).

Suppresses future healing and shielding on the target by [X] for [Y] seconds.

It definitely does need to be higher (because it's about preventing future healing/shielding instead of attacking current health/shields immediately).

I don't think the duration needs to be too high, as it is about enabling more burst (and then dedicated support roles/sets could amplify this).

And reworking it to the suppression of both heal and shield would mean it encompasses a general concept: Targeting future protective abilities.

Defile has its own niche about slightly targeting future protection in tandem with raw damage over a long period (just general builds), while Oblivion Damage (Heal Absorb) would be about strongly targeting future protection without immediate damage (and could be countered via dodge abilities, can be built as a supporting role).

Avran_Sylt · November 25

Taril wrote: »

Healing Absorb would really need an overhaul in how it is implemented to really become a thing.

The way that Healing Absorb functions as a mechanic, is that it prolongs the window for which burst damage can be dangerous, by providing that buffer before someone can begin to recover via healing. (For other games this can force usage of less resource efficient but more time efficient skill usage, since you need to overcome the buffer AND then restore the target to a safe level of health)

Healing Absorb by itself, is useless. It has to be paired up with a source of damage to matter, otherwise it's not doing anything. With this damage needing to be focused around bursting a target to death to have a significant impact.

Even when considering burst windows, the current game has shields being prevalent (And quite powerful) which is unaffected by heal absorb at all.

Overall, the mechanic is flawed in ESO due to:

1) Low values
2) Low duration
3) Invalidation by common shield abilities

Meanwhile, you have the much better Defile which is not only more available, it doesn't come instead of damage (It's an Affix Script or secondary effect on skills) AND it affects shields too.

Do we know if healing absorption is halved via battlespirit? Can it crit?

Theoretically it could be useful if it essentially acts as "double" damage for a respective skill, including potentially building for crit absorption like with crit healing.

Taril · November 25

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Maybe Oblivion Damage could be reworked to act like heal absorb? (to better consolidate damage types).

Oblivion Damage already has a role though, it is the damage type that counters tanks with its percentage health damage and resistance bypassing effect.

If Oblivion Damage was to be changed, it'd be better to have something like it factoring shields into its percentage damage (So if someone has 40k HP and a 20k shield it would deal a percentage of 60k total "EHP") allowing it to better chew through "Tank" builds that spam giant shields. With a raised damage cap so it can actually hit the actual numbers it should to properly do its job at punishing high health tanks.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I don't think the duration needs to be too high, as it is about enabling more burst (and then dedicated support roles/sets could amplify this).

Duration is one method of making heal absorb relevant. By way of enabling you to stack it up over a period of time so when you eventually burst a target, there's a significant barrier of "Heal absorb" to chew through to start recovering the target.

Which allows it to function without necessarily requiring absurd levels of heal absorb from a singular cast and enables counterplay to burst set ups by managing the stacking heal absorb with more healing.

Avran_Sylt · November 25

Taril wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Maybe Oblivion Damage could be reworked to act like heal absorb? (to better consolidate damage types).

Oblivion Damage already has a role though, it is the damage type that counters tanks with its percentage health damage and resistance bypassing effect.

If Oblivion Damage was to be changed, it'd be better to have something like it factoring shields into its percentage damage (So if someone has 40k HP and a 20k shield it would deal a percentage of 60k total "EHP") allowing it to better chew through "Tank" builds that spam giant shields. With a raised damage cap so it can actually hit the actual numbers it should to properly do its job at punishing high health tanks.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

I don't think the duration needs to be too high, as it is about enabling more burst (and then dedicated support roles/sets could amplify this).

Duration is one method of making heal absorb relevant. By way of enabling you to stack it up over a period of time so when you eventually burst a target, there's a significant barrier of "Heal absorb" to chew through to start recovering the target.

Which allows it to function without necessarily requiring absurd levels of heal absorb from a singular cast and enables counterplay to burst set ups by managing the stacking heal absorb with more healing.

The counter to tanks is damage stacking (more EHP damage) and penetration (negate resistance) because Tanks build HP and resistances...

If that isn't the case currently then there's an issue with damage scaling or an issue elsewhere.

And duration could be improved, but only about as long as a damage shield.

YandereGirlfriend · November 25

I'm also not sure if the Heal Absorb sources actually stack.

I tested the Scribing Traumas and they did not stack with each other.

So the interaction would be unclear if you hit someone with Trample while someone else hit them with a Borrowed Time.

Does anyone happen to know this? It's more knowledge for the sake of knowledge than, for the present time, anything practical.