Farstrider and Siegmaster's focus are overtuned.

Frostmear · September 17

Heavy – Siegemaster’s Focus
2 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 – Adds 1296 Maximum Health
4 – Adds 1487 Armor
5 – While you are using a non-Ram Siege Weapon, you are immune to knockback and disabling effects, you reduce your damage taken by 33%, and you can see enemies through walls.

Medium – Farstrider
2 – Adds 1487 Armor
3 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 – Adds 657 Critical Chance
5 – When you deal direct damage with a Blink, Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability, decrease the Critical Resistance of your enemy by 40% and increase your Critical Resistance by an equal amount for 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 7 seconds.

Both of these sets are extremely problematic.
First is siegmaster's focus. The knockback and CC immunity isn't the main issue, it's the 33% damage reduction and seeing through walls. From essentially every perspective in Cyrodiil, small scale, large scale, comp group, etc. Seeing through walls is going to be insanely problematic for anyone. The 33% damage reduction is also an issue, especially when there's many people who are on siege are full on tank builds. This is just going to increase the amount of tanky siege bots in PVP, when more people are just sitting in siege the gameplay itself becomes stale and boring when most people won't even want to fight and just run in a keep and set up siege immediately.

Now for the Farstrider set.
On PTS if i recall correctly. This set stacks.. Crit damage is already insane enough as is and this set will just make it worse, I'm not sure if the stacking is a bug, but it's an issue. Either make it a unique buff and reduce the amount of crit damage you lose when affected by it. Or drastically reduce the cooldown and uptime, because at the moment this is a 100% uptime with no drawbacks.
If you want to stop the "tank meta" introducing sets like this are not the answer, you need to address cross healing, that is the root cause for the tank meta. Set's like this do nothing against annoying ball groups with excessive cross healing. It just empowers them further. I don't even want to mention the gank squads that'll run this.

Another issue i fear is that these sets will just be overlooked as everyone's too busy crying about the Cloak nerf and nobody is paying attention to these two sets which are an even larger problem.

ZOS_GregoryV · September 18

Greetings,

As this thread is in regards to items that are currently on the Public Test Server, we have move this thread to a more appropriate section.

Regards,
-Greg

karthrag_inak · September 18

What exactly does over-tuned mean?

Are they sharp? Flat? Are they too perfectly pitched to participate in ensembles? Are the tuning keys fatigued?

Khajiit has opinions to share, but is not sure if he agrees or disagrees with premise.

Frostmear · September 18

karthrag_inak wrote: »

What exactly does over-tuned mean?

Are they sharp? Flat? Are they too perfectly pitched to participate in ensembles? Are the tuning keys fatigued?

Khajiit has opinions to share, but is not sure if he agrees or disagrees with premise.

Over tuned as in over performing, too strong in their current state. It would be very unenjoyable to fight against people wearing these two sets.

Finedaible · September 18

I can see Siegemaster's Focus being abused by unkillable flaggers like they used to do with the old Mist Form.

Necrotech_Master · September 18

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

jaws343 · September 18

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

I think the see through wall aspect is going to apply a bit differently than the other ways of gaining it right now.

With the ults, and tab targeting, it is incredibly situational and limited. You need to use your ult for example to gain it and it runs out. And tab targeting is only a single person.

With this set, you can have it permanently on siege. Which has the potential to remove the surprise element in siege fights entirely. If the enemy is stacking up in the keep to rush the attackers, someone on siege can now call that out and the attackers can completely adjust their focus to handle that attack before they are surprised by it. It will remove any inside the keep tactical advantages that defenders have.

YandereGirlfriend · September 18

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

I think the see through wall aspect is going to apply a bit differently than the other ways of gaining it right now.

With the ults, and tab targeting, it is incredibly situational and limited. You need to use your ult for example to gain it and it runs out. And tab targeting is only a single person.

With this set, you can have it permanently on siege. Which has the potential to remove the surprise element in siege fights entirely. If the enemy is stacking up in the keep to rush the attackers, someone on siege can now call that out and the attackers can completely adjust their focus to handle that attack before they are surprised by it. It will remove any inside the keep tactical advantages that defenders have.

Exactly right.

Sieging is already the least effort/easiest and most overtuned "playstyle" in Cyro and the last thing that it needed was something to buff/encourage it more.

Necrotech_Master · September 18

jaws343 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

I think the see through wall aspect is going to apply a bit differently than the other ways of gaining it right now.

With the ults, and tab targeting, it is incredibly situational and limited. You need to use your ult for example to gain it and it runs out. And tab targeting is only a single person.

With this set, you can have it permanently on siege. Which has the potential to remove the surprise element in siege fights entirely. If the enemy is stacking up in the keep to rush the attackers, someone on siege can now call that out and the attackers can completely adjust their focus to handle that attack before they are surprised by it. It will remove any inside the keep tactical advantages that defenders have.

yeah with the ult you cant keep it up all the time for sure

i dont know how effective it would actually be though, if it could see through stealth/invis then probably more OP

if they want to give this ability but tone it down, they could do a thing where it "marks" enemies that are hit by your siege, so you can continue to see them until they die, so it would still provide slight advantage, but not a constant overbearing watchful eye to all enemy movements

MincMincMinc · September 18

The seige set would really only be a meme for a week. I can see someone doing a copy of Dude Vampire's old build where you do a 90khp sunshield vamp that just seiges. If people wear it during keep seiges, so what? Once you get inside they are down a set. Just be happy it doesnt boost seige damage by 33%.

The crit resist set boils down to a counter to rally cry crit resist. This really only hurts solo players as groups now have an additional set to pick up. This effect should certainly not stack.

Rush + Farstrider
Rally Cry
SPC
Powerful assault
incarnate or moth

CameraBeardThePirate · September 19

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

MincMincMinc · September 19

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

I mean rally cry gives 1650 + 300wd to all allies. Although you have a point that compared to crit damage sets it is equivalent in damage + the tankiness.

around 800-1200 crit resist removal to aoe enemies with only you becoming tanky is fairly equivalent. If anything I would say Rally cry still comes out on top.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 19

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

I mean rally cry gives 1650 + 300wd to all allies. Although you have a point that compared to crit damage sets it is equivalent in damage + the tankiness.

around 800-1200 crit resist removal to aoe enemies with only you becoming tanky is fairly equivalent. If anything I would say Rally cry still comes out on top.

Well no, Rally does not give 1650 + 300 to all allies. It only gives that much if you're solo.

In a 4 man it'll be giving ~1300 crit resist and 240 weapon damage, which is still very good, but it's important to note that it scales down in effectiveness with numbers.

MincMincMinc · September 19

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

I mean rally cry gives 1650 + 300wd to all allies. Although you have a point that compared to crit damage sets it is equivalent in damage + the tankiness.

around 800-1200 crit resist removal to aoe enemies with only you becoming tanky is fairly equivalent. If anything I would say Rally cry still comes out on top.

Well no, Rally does not give 1650 + 300 to all allies. It only gives that much if you're solo.

In a 4 man it'll be giving ~1300 crit resist and 240 weapon damage, which is still very good, but it's important to note that it scales down in effectiveness with numbers.

Has anyone actually tested if farstrider even applies in an aoe? Or only on one target? Purgeable? If it is not an aoe, its trash flat out except for duel scenarios. Even in a 6 man scenario for both sets I think RC still provides more.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 19

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

I mean rally cry gives 1650 + 300wd to all allies. Although you have a point that compared to crit damage sets it is equivalent in damage + the tankiness.

around 800-1200 crit resist removal to aoe enemies with only you becoming tanky is fairly equivalent. If anything I would say Rally cry still comes out on top.

Well no, Rally does not give 1650 + 300 to all allies. It only gives that much if you're solo.

In a 4 man it'll be giving ~1300 crit resist and 240 weapon damage, which is still very good, but it's important to note that it scales down in effectiveness with numbers.

Has anyone actually tested if farstrider even applies in an aoe? Or only on one target? Purgeable? If it is not an aoe, its trash flat out except for duel scenarios. Even in a 6 man scenario for both sets I think RC still provides more.

I'm not sure it does, but I'm approaching it more in comparison to something like Order's Wrath - a good boost in your damage and survivability.

Rally will always earn a spot because it's free stats for your group.

To clarify, I don't really agree with OP that either set is necessarily overtuned.

MincMincMinc · September 19

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

I mean rally cry gives 1650 + 300wd to all allies. Although you have a point that compared to crit damage sets it is equivalent in damage + the tankiness.

around 800-1200 crit resist removal to aoe enemies with only you becoming tanky is fairly equivalent. If anything I would say Rally cry still comes out on top.

Well no, Rally does not give 1650 + 300 to all allies. It only gives that much if you're solo.

In a 4 man it'll be giving ~1300 crit resist and 240 weapon damage, which is still very good, but it's important to note that it scales down in effectiveness with numbers.

Has anyone actually tested if farstrider even applies in an aoe? Or only on one target? Purgeable? If it is not an aoe, its trash flat out except for duel scenarios. Even in a 6 man scenario for both sets I think RC still provides more.

I'm not sure it does, but I'm approaching it more in comparison to something like Order's Wrath - a good boost in your damage and survivability.

Rally will always earn a spot because it's free stats for your group.

To clarify, I don't really agree with OP that either set is necessarily overtuned.

Yeah it is for sure matching the damage of 5 piece orders or gourmand WITH the bonus of getting the crit resist in return.(they are equivalent to each other, order's if your crit is lower otherwise gourmand)

I was only comparing it to RC because it may be an aoe reduction (if it can proc on multiple enemies and not just the first enemy). If so, it will be used by coordinated groups much like RC, SPC, Moth, PA. As far as my group can muster it numerically works out fine for group play, but looks stronger in duel scenarios when compared to orders wrath.

YandereGirlfriend · September 19

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

I mean rally cry gives 1650 + 300wd to all allies. Although you have a point that compared to crit damage sets it is equivalent in damage + the tankiness.

around 800-1200 crit resist removal to aoe enemies with only you becoming tanky is fairly equivalent. If anything I would say Rally cry still comes out on top.

Well no, Rally does not give 1650 + 300 to all allies. It only gives that much if you're solo.

In a 4 man it'll be giving ~1300 crit resist and 240 weapon damage, which is still very good, but it's important to note that it scales down in effectiveness with numbers.

Has anyone actually tested if farstrider even applies in an aoe? Or only on one target? Purgeable? If it is not an aoe, its trash flat out except for duel scenarios. Even in a 6 man scenario for both sets I think RC still provides more.

It doesn't. It procs on the first enemy touched with a tick of your relevant damage.

MincMincMinc · September 19

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

I mean rally cry gives 1650 + 300wd to all allies. Although you have a point that compared to crit damage sets it is equivalent in damage + the tankiness.

around 800-1200 crit resist removal to aoe enemies with only you becoming tanky is fairly equivalent. If anything I would say Rally cry still comes out on top.

Well no, Rally does not give 1650 + 300 to all allies. It only gives that much if you're solo.

In a 4 man it'll be giving ~1300 crit resist and 240 weapon damage, which is still very good, but it's important to note that it scales down in effectiveness with numbers.

Has anyone actually tested if farstrider even applies in an aoe? Or only on one target? Purgeable? If it is not an aoe, its trash flat out except for duel scenarios. Even in a 6 man scenario for both sets I think RC still provides more.

It doesn't. It procs on the first enemy touched with a tick of your relevant damage.

Thanks, so it'll only be useful in 1v1 situations. Or I guess Xv1 too

Frostmear · September 20

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

from my understanding of farstrider is that it only reduces their resistance by the % amount

so if they have 2000 crit resist, it would be -40% or a reduction of 800 resist, im not sure how much real effective difference this would make in an actual situation

the other one, the siegemaster one, the 33% dmg reduction might be a bit strong for sure, but they would only get that while on siege, and a tank person would be giving up a full 5 pc set to use this

the see through walls is not really a new mechanic, one of the vamp ults and even just tab targeting can already do that, i dont really see that as too big of an advantage while on siege because with a fully zoomed out siege camera you could usually see where everyone was on the other side of the walls anyway

800 crit resist is equivalent to about 12% crit damage (800/66). Farstrider is a very strong crit damage set. It's not necessarily the highest damage, but you're also getting crit resist out of it to make yourself tankier.

I mean rally cry gives 1650 + 300wd to all allies. Although you have a point that compared to crit damage sets it is equivalent in damage + the tankiness.

around 800-1200 crit resist removal to aoe enemies with only you becoming tanky is fairly equivalent. If anything I would say Rally cry still comes out on top.

Well no, Rally does not give 1650 + 300 to all allies. It only gives that much if you're solo.

In a 4 man it'll be giving ~1300 crit resist and 240 weapon damage, which is still very good, but it's important to note that it scales down in effectiveness with numbers.

Has anyone actually tested if farstrider even applies in an aoe? Or only on one target? Purgeable? If it is not an aoe, its trash flat out except for duel scenarios. Even in a 6 man scenario for both sets I think RC still provides more.

It only applies to one target, which is the problem. It's an Xv1 or Duel set. Set's like this are generally unhealthy for PVP in all types of PVP formats.

Bane_Andeddu · November 16

Anything interesting or unique = "overtuned" or "op". Got it. Typical pvp crying to attempt to fundamentally change the game. Pvp will never be balanced in an mmo. Go play cod.

Thumbless_Bot · November 16

Bane_Andeddu wrote: »

Anything interesting or unique = "overtuned" or "op". Got it. Typical pvp crying to attempt to fundamentally change the game. Pvp will never be balanced in an mmo. Go play cod.

You seriously could not have picked a worse post to bring this old cliche out for. These are 100% pvp sets. I don't see too many npcs rocking siege weapons but maybe I haven't explored the map in a while. Also, when was the last time you saw an npc block more than once every 10 to 20 seconds?

Also, and for good measure, your argument is a straw person argument.