KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

A true downside to using this mythic that would fit the intended theme of it would be something along the lines of:
- You cannot deal martial damage (physical, poison, disease or bleed damage types) while this mythic is equipped on either bar.
This is a feasible downside because it takes something away (in this case stamina damage type abilities) in return for essentially tripling the power of the destruction staff passives and secondary effects of destruction staff abilities (since those abilities would count as all 3 staff types being equipped). Yes it is tripling in power because each individual passive and secondary effect on its own for each ability is deemed strong enough by ZOS to be it's own thing and this mythic would grant all 3 of these at the same time.

That's a bit much, especially since it's power is low.
The passives don't buff everything, only 12% for half the things out there.
The DoT deals only 1.2k every 2 seconds, and it doesn't deal it on hit so spamming heavy attacks keeps resetting it before it deals damage. I've run into that issue with a Fire Staff. Players heal that instantly, and have the ability to cleanse it.
The block and damage shield is a primary feature. It may be strong on a heavy build, but then they have no damage. Even if the passives 12% were to apply to everything, 1.5k damage +12% aint much. But it doesn't, only to limited damages. It might be strong a a Dragonknight because they are DoT heaven, but they weren't the target of this staff. I'm a Nightblade main, and have been maining a Sorc for the past few weeks, champed him a few days ago.
And I doubt lightning staff's 12% better channeled damage applies to Mend Wounds. That thing hardly scales from anything.

Then again, damage shields are halved under battle spirit, so the 15k damage shield my 48kHP NB Thews tank gets is reduced to 7.5k in PvP. That's useless, and halving that still makes it useless. Might as well not put a thing in Destruction. Then why would the staff exist?
It needs a minimum power to be of any use. Adding drawbacks or halving its effectiveness is pathetic. Let is get tested live before suggesting drawbacks.

You've pointed out that other things are used in place of most mythics due to drawbacks. Perhaps drawbacks are too powerful. Lets try it without drawbacks first then see later if it needs any.

The 12% increase to damage gets applies to everything, not just the heavy attacks or the fire DoT because all abilities in the game are considered either direct damage or damage over time then have secondary types of status effect, area, single target, channeled or cast time, then also subdivided again into tertiary damage types like shock, fire, frost, magic, physical, bleed, poison and disease.
The reason the damage shield is so small is because the damage shield is completely free, costing zero resources to get it, that's why it's supposed to be much weaker than damage shield abilities that require casting, since those cost actual resources to use.

This mythic would make the ancient knowledge passive, the strongest single generic boost to damage in the game, stronger even than Major berserk (which is 10%) and significantly stronger than any other weapon passive.

Think about it this way, this mythic makes 2/3 of the ancient knowledge passive alone equal to 75% of the power of the malacath band of brutality mythic (not counting the damage shield part of this passive), but it has no downside of band of reduced crit damage. This is only this mythics buff to the ancient knowledge passive, it doesn't account for also buffing the tri-focus passive.

This also assumes there would be no bugs (or unintended interactions from code errors) where the 12% buff applies itself to certain abilities or effects twice (something that was happening when ancient knowledge was recently changed), essentially granting a 24% increase instead of 12%. All status effects would potentially be affected by this, being both status effects and direct damage or damage over time and also some abilities like fatecarver and radiant destruction that are both damage over time and channeled abilities.

This is why the mythic needs a downside. 1 passive alone (ancient knowledge) is getting buffed to be almost as strong as another mythic (band of brutality) with none of the downsides of that mythic and that passive is not the only thing being buffed by this mythic.

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

The 12% increase to damage gets applies to everything, not just the heavy attacks or the fire DoT because all abilities in the game are considered either direct damage or damage over time then have secondary types of status effect, area, single target, channeled or cast time, then also subdivided again into tertiary damage types like shock, fire, frost, magic, physical, bleed, poison and disease.

Ok

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

The reason the damage shield is so small is because the damage shield is completely free, costing zero resources to get it, that's why it's supposed to be much weaker than damage shield abilities that require casting, since those cost actual resources to use.

Actually it's stronger than any damage shield ability I have access to.
My thought of why, is because it has a 2-3 second cast time via fully charged heavy attack.
Save for the support ult.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

This mythic would make the ancient knowledge passive, the strongest single generic boost to damage in the game, stronger even than Major berserk (which is 10%) and significantly stronger than any other weapon passive.

Think about it this way, this mythic makes 2/3 of the ancient knowledge passive alone equal to 75% of the power of the malacath band of brutality mythic (not counting the damage shield part of this passive), but it has no downside of band of reduced crit damage. This is only this mythics buff to the ancient knowledge passive, it doesn't account for also buffing the tri-focus passive.

Valid Point. I forgot Direct was half and DoT was half, making them combined be universal.
I suppose those two can be halved effectiveness.

Damage shield is Tri-Focus, not ancient knowledge. Ice Staff ancient knowledge is just block boost.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

This also assumes there would be no bugs (or unintended interactions from code errors) where the 12% buff applies itself to certain abilities or effects twice (something that was happening when ancient knowledge was recently changed), essentially granting a 24% increase instead of 12%. All status effects would potentially be affected by this, being both status effects and direct damage or damage over time and also some abilities like fatecarver and radiant destruction that are both damage over time and channeled abilities.

This is why the mythic needs a downside. 1 passive alone (ancient knowledge) is getting buffed to be almost as strong as another mythic (band of brutality) with none of the downsides of that mythic and that passive is not the only thing being buffed by this mythic.

Do note you cannot wear another weapon set with it nor a 1 piece like you can with other mythics if wearing 2 full 5 piece sets.
That alone can make it less effective than other mythics.

I suppose the TriStaff would have a unique effect for Ancient Knowledge then, just to avoid that bug.
3%/6% (rank 1 / rank 2) universal damage boost. Reduce the cost of block by 18%/36% (R1/R2), increase the amount of damage you can block by 10%/20% (R1/R2).

Universal downside is still a bad idea.
And if they do add it with no downsides, you may still find it weaker than other mythics or weapon sets, just because they actually have power increase versus this thing.

• This Thing
  • Elemental Rage morph of Elemental Storm
    • Fire: + 15% damage
    • Lightning: +2 seconds duration
    • Frost: Immobilize for 3 seconds
    • This thing: all 3
  • Destructive Clench morph of Destructive Touch (always applies the element's status effect, so I added that to their list of special effects)
    • Fire: Knockback and applies Burning
    • Lightning: Blast and applies Concussed
    • Frost: Increased Cost, Immobilize, Major Maim, Taunt, and applies Chilled
    • This thing: all 3, except for the taunt
  • Wall of Elements
    • Fire: extra damage to burning enemies
    • Lightning: sets concussed enemies off balanced
    • Frost: snares and reduces the armor of chilled enemies, grants allies damage shields (versus ranged attacks, but tooltip doesn't mention that specification.)
    • This thing: all 3
  • Impulse
    • Fire: Burning enemies are hit with Impulse Afterburn
    • Lightning: Increases damage bases on enemies hit
    • Frost: 6 seconds of Minor Protection to self and allies (negligible duration imo, because other buffs last a minimum of 15, average 20-30, some Major buffs last 10 but those don't count because Major vs Minor.)
    • This thing: all 3
  • Heavy Attacks are a bolt attack and fully charged heavy attacks deal splash damage and apply TriFocus to all enemies hit, as well as granting self a damage shield.
  • Ancient Knowledge (R1/R2)
    • Fire: 6%/12% DoT and status effects damage boost
    • Lightning: 6%/12% Direct damage and channeled effect boost
    • Frost: reduce the cost of block by 18%/36%, increase the amount of damage you can block by 10%/20%
    • I feel someone's going to cry foul if the damage type they use is reduced when using this staff versus the type they were using. Therefore:
      • Increase damage dealt by 6%/12%, reduce the cost of block by 18%/36%, increase the amount of damage you can block by 10%/20%.
• Wild Impulse
  • Reduce the cost of Impulse by 10%. Impulse places a lingering elemental damage on your targets, dealing 605 Flame 605 Shock, and 605 Frost Damage over 8 seconds. Each element ticks once over the duration and its damage scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
  • Perfected: +1190 Penetration
• Crushing Wall
  • Increases the damage Wall of Elements deals by 1250.
  • Perfected: +1190 Penetration
• Destructive Impact
  • Reduces the cost of Destructive Touch by 10% and increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 600 for 4 seconds after activating it.
  • Perfected: +103 weapon and spell damage
• Wrath of Elements
  • Casting Weakness to Elements on a target within 15 meters of you causes a surge of elemental energy to tether between you for 10 seconds. While the tether persists, enemies touching the tether take 331 Flame Damage 331 Shock Damage, or 331 Frost Damage every 1 second, which increases by 1% each time it deals damage, up to 20%. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds, and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.
  • Perfected: +1190 Penetration

Here's a possible penalty... Effected abilities (Wall of Elements, Impulse, Destructive Clench, and Elemental Rage) may have increased cost due to having increased effectiveness, maybe slightly moreso than Frost Clench's cost increase.

I'd prefer a swordstaff over a tristaff

Possible Drawback: The staff deals Fire, Frost and Shock damage at the same time but is not affected by any destruction staff passives

The idea of mythic weapons have been floated around for a while, but this isn't the way to do it. Mythic items are designed to be useful regardless of passives so having the bulk of its utility behind passives is misguided design, not to mention the sheer imbalance of power with this item.

There also needs to be a caveat that balances it out. Being hard to get isn't a drawback since the item itself is a lot of power for no real downside apart from skill point investment. The only way I see something like this maybe working is that it will be the only weapon equipped, taking up both bars (4 slots). This is probably a poor design choice, however, I'm just throwing out the first idea that popped into my head.