(Poll + Discussion) Is Battlegrounds 8v8 fun?

Aggrovious · November 11

You can list your reasons as to why you picked your answer. I am using the poll to gather attention as to what the problems are in 8v8 BG's. I had fun, but why there are alot of problems that limited that fun...

Pros:

35 transmute rewards are awesome. I never have to play Cyrodiil again
Chaos Ball with the Vampire vs Werewolf is alot of fun.
The matches are action packed. Even if your team loses, everyone sticks together.
IMO, 8v8 is better than the old BGs. That's right, it does feel more balanced. Its not always one sided unlike 4v4s.

Cons:

8V8 BGs ends the match due to not having enough players. This happens alot and needs to be fixed ASAP.
8v8s can have a team spawn kill the other. Most maps actually can counter this if players are smart enough (using bridges and attacking by flanks), but you have to survive 8 players or be a nightblade (I dont mind)
8v8s queues are TERRIBLE. You can not queue with a friend in a group queue, but if you both queue in solo you usually are in the same match and team. FIX THIS.
8v8s should consider dropping deathmatch and just making it capture the flag or chaos ball. A unpopular take not doubt, but lets be real here. Alot of players in BGs just attack eachother and when your whole team is fighting a couple of guys, you lose alot because they're dumb. If we change the game mode to capture the flag and chaos ball only for 8v8s, we can lower those queue times and fix them, right?

Jak3Bartez · November 11

Yes

It's fun when the teams are fairly balanced, the team that has a healer or three usually wins since its very easy to play defence and not die if they don't want to.
They need to stop anyone dealing/taking damage from spawn and adding a comeback mechanic in deathmatch would be good, like if theirs a 100 point difference the losing team gets a defensive and offensive power up in spawn they're only 30 seconds so not huge game changers. Much better than old BGs for me.

xylena_lazarow · November 11

Yes

I love the new 8v8 solo queue, it's not perfect but here's hoping they improve on it. I hadn't cared about BGs in years and was losing interest in ESO in general, but the 8v8 solo has me playing regularly again. The big things I'd like to see are some sort of mercy rule or forfeit option for lopsided matches, buffs for the monster mode in Chaosball, and making the spawn area a proper uninteractable safe zone like you see in Cyro towns or IC doors.

DeadlySerious · November 11

No

The new BG is just a distraction from working on what ZOS should be focusing on when it comes to PvP, and that's Cyrodiil.

Aldoss · November 11

Other

I assume this poll is asking about the solo queue, in which I'd say, yes, it's fun.

However, that's neglecting a entire queuing population that also deserve to have a functioning and enriching playing experience.

The group queue is 99% composed of casual duo queuers. Games are really fun when the lobby is a mixture of casual and more advanced skilled duos.

This experience is demolished the second a 4-stack joins the 8v8. The power limit of a coordinated 4-stack vs a casual duo is exponentially higher and it makes the game completely unplayable for everyone but the 4-stack (and their other teammates, but even then, most are not securing any kills because the 4-stack is literally deleting the entire lobby left and right instantly).

4-stacks need to be pushed into the "competitive" 4v4 queue and the mode needs to be adjusted to be arena style, best of 3 rounds, 1 life per round. Duo BGers are essentially gambling their queue time and play time on the notion that there won't be a 4-stack in the queue, because when there is, that time is essentially wasted.

Aggrovious · November 11

Yes

Aldoss wrote: »

I assume this poll is asking about the solo queue, in which I'd say, yes, it's fun.

However, that's neglecting a entire queuing population that also deserve to have a functioning and enriching playing experience.

The group queue is 99% composed of casual duo queuers. Games are really fun when the lobby is a mixture of casual and more advanced skilled duos.

No, the purpose of the poll is for discussion and to see if players find 8v8 BGs fun. Queues are quicker if you solo queue and that is dumb because I am put into the same team as my friend I wanted to queue with.

moosegod · November 12

Other

yes and no...

8v8 is sometimes a lot of fun as a casual experience but I often find myself in lopsided matches. If one team doesn't have a healer then the game is usually decided before it starts, especially in deathmatch but also in the objective modes. I don't even bother with 4v4 on anything other than a healer because of this issue as it is even more prevalent there.

I've experienced plenty of spawn camping when one team has a better composition than the other. I was in a chaosball match this weekend where a warden on the enemy team went 44-0 running around with the winter storm ult. They were virtually unkillable under all the heals and shields provided by their team. In the end, the warden was near the bottom of their team's scoreboard cause he never picked up the chaosball, actively ignoring the objective just to wipe my squishy team of what I assume were new players. They couldn't get out of spawn with their 20k health pools.

IMO, the game has too many defensive options. A healer should not be able to keep their whole team alive while themselves being a tank, that just doesn't make sense. Sure if I was in a coordinated team we could all focus the healer but that doesn't happen in solo queue. As it is, healers can play a pivotal role in solo queue which is great for those players to feel useful but they create either two outcomes: a stalemate or a lopsided victory.

Part of this problem is some of the small map sizes for 8v8. I keep getting the same couple maps: the town with the funneling streets that brings everyone to the center, the dungeon map (so many games on the dungeon map), and the two tiny arenas where you can almost shoot each other from spawn. I haven't played on the map with the big tree and the boat since the update launched. With only two teams now, spawn camping is practically encouraged as their is no 3rd team to keep the spawn campers in check.

I would say I'm 50/50 on this new update. I like the refreshing change, it shakes things up. But their are plenty of kinks to work out in this new system and I feel it was implemented too quickly without proper foresight. I don't know how they didn't foresee spawn camping being an issue and put something in place to remedy it from the start.

Aggrovious · November 12

Yes

moosegod wrote: »

yes and no...
8v8 is sometimes a lot of fun as a casual experience but I often find myself in lopsided matches. If one team doesn't have a healer then the game is usually decided before it starts, especially in deathmatch but also in the objective modes. I don't even bother with 4v4 on anything other than a healer because of this issue as it is even more prevalent there.

I've experienced plenty of spawn camping when one team has a better composition than the other. I was in a chaosball match this weekend where a warden on the enemy team went 44-0 running around with the winter storm ult. They were virtually unkillable under all the heals and shields provided by their team. In the end, the warden was near the bottom of their team's scoreboard cause he never picked up the chaosball, actively ignoring the objective just to wipe my squishy team of what I assume were new players. They couldn't get out of spawn with their 20k health pools.

IMO, the game has too many defensive options. A healer should not be able to keep their whole team alive while themselves being a tank, that just doesn't make sense. Sure if I was in a coordinated team we could all focus the healer but that doesn't happen in solo queue. As it is, healers can play a pivotal role in solo queue which is great for those players to feel useful but they create either two outcomes: a stalemate or a lopsided victory.

Part of this problem is some of the small map sizes for 8v8. I keep getting the same couple maps: the town with the funneling streets that brings everyone to the center, the dungeon map (so many games on the dungeon map), and the two tiny arenas where you can almost shoot each other from spawn. I haven't played on the map with the big tree and the boat since the update launched. With only two teams now, spawn camping is practically encouraged as their is no 3rd team to keep the spawn campers in check.

I would say I'm 50/50 on this new update. I like the refreshing change, it shakes things up. But their are plenty of kinks to work out in this new system and I feel it was implemented too quickly without proper foresight. I don't know how they didn't foresee spawn camping being an issue and put something in place to remedy it from the start.

You're complaining about MMO pvp problems and not really BG. Healers feel tanky because they block and have a build. They should heal their whole team because its an MMO. They are tanky because its ESO PVP, not just BG. I only see one issue about BG that you mentioned and that is spawn killing. But if its one guy, players need to play smarter... You can escape it and force players to retreat from your base. Players wont though because a lot of these guys are PVEers.

Sure we can add a protective zone, but players will still camp it if they are allowed to by your team. This happens in MOBAs often.

bkzland · November 12

Yes

I answered yes, but I had to think about it or a while. There are many issues that need solutions, my personaly top 3 are these:

1. Pre-match experience and matchmaking needs to be way more aggressive to prioritize facilicating the start of a match over finding "perfect" matches. The waiting experience is just horrible, especially when queueing as groups of 3 into 8v8 the wait time generally exceed 15minutes per match, _before_ the invite prompt happens, which is usually still followed by the extra 5 minutes wait and match cancellation. I feel the match just starting rather than the match being put together perfectly is of such high importance to me, that I would even much prefer random people to get pulled from their group and assigned to the enemy team if the lobby finds it can fill and start the game that way, rather than waiting longer or matches cancelling.

2. Strength of pre made groups is very high in 8v8, and ball group strategies are very effective. I specifically am referring to groups of 4 bringing an organized ball of themselves, that is easily able to dominate any match through outhealing all the incoming damage, until they can perform coordinated ulti dump to wipe out any other team. I think there are some valid suggestions how to address this, like only groups 2 are allowed to queue in, or healing needs to be debuffed/damage needs to be buffed over time of the match, so things don't stay the same stable way until the end, but I don't have a clear vision of how to solve this. The idea that MMR is able to just filter out players in a way that unorganized collections of players do not run into organized groups just doesn't seem to work as effectively as it probably was envisioned, and 2 sided means there is no regulation third team, that is able to play objectives, which semi effectively countered the 4 man ball group strategy in the past for not being able to fully control all objectives as a cohesive ball.

3. Spawn location immunity is desperately needed, and 4v4 deathmatch rounds should not be a combination of respawns and rounds. I read lots of suggestions in other threads for the spawn situation and the problems with it, I like the idea of the IC style protection the most. Players in spawn are immune for maximum time, but lose the immunity if they attack or use certain offensives skills themselves, or if they move away from the spawn too far immediately.
The main problem in many steam rolled matches is that players just are unable to get back into the game after respawning, since they immediately get CCd and killed individually when jumping down. They may not be able to turn the tide of the match, but being spawn killed like this is an utterly miserable experience, that just needs to be prevented for people not to fully abandon queueing into the game mode.

I said 3, but I want to at least mention the terrible reward structure, especially for the battlemaster token item. Firstly it just seems to be completely random, which daily quests my characters seem to receive, and only To The Victor has the token as a reward, but secondly since that can only be fulfilled by a win, the motivation for weaker players is just very low to really play for this. In my mind, the To The Victor quest should always be the first quest you receive on any given day, the other 2? of earn 1000 medals, and play 5 matches, should only be given as stretch goals after To The Victor was already performed, or completely removed from the battlemater quest rotation. Secondly, in order to keep players engegaged better even after losses, To The Victor should have a third optional condition that is satisfied by just playing 3-5 matches, as an alternative condition to receive the token item even when losing, so it would either reward token after 1 win, plus increasing secondary rewards up to three wins as designed, _or_ reward the same reward as the first victory stage of the quest, including the battlemaster token, after playing but not winning a minimum amount of e.g. 3-5 matches.

Amottica · November 12

Yes

Aldoss wrote: »

I assume this poll is asking about the solo queue, in which I'd say, yes, it's fun.

However, that's neglecting a entire queuing population that also deserve to have a functioning and enriching playing experience.

The group queue is 99% composed of casual duo queuers. Games are really fun when the lobby is a mixture of casual and more advanced skilled duos.

This experience is demolished the second a 4-stack joins the 8v8. The power limit of a coordinated 4-stack vs a casual duo is exponentially higher and it makes the game completely unplayable for everyone but the 4-stack (and their other teammates, but even then, most are not securing any kills because the 4-stack is literally deleting the entire lobby left and right instantly).

4-stacks need to be pushed into the "competitive" 4v4 queue and the mode needs to be adjusted to be arena style, best of 3 rounds, 1 life per round. Duo BGers are essentially gambling their queue time and play time on the notion that there won't be a 4-stack in the queue, because when there is, that time is essentially wasted.

The question is simple and clear. Very few poll threads in these forums are as clear and concise as this one. It is great that the OP did not make it complex and encompass many things, as it would tell us very little.

In the situation described, any group formed by a queue will be provided by a random group, depending on who is queueing at that moment. This is what anyone queueing with less than a full group should expect, regardless of the content.

Aldoss · November 12

Other

Amottica wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

I assume this poll is asking about the solo queue, in which I'd say, yes, it's fun.

However, that's neglecting a entire queuing population that also deserve to have a functioning and enriching playing experience.

The group queue is 99% composed of casual duo queuers. Games are really fun when the lobby is a mixture of casual and more advanced skilled duos.

This experience is demolished the second a 4-stack joins the 8v8. The power limit of a coordinated 4-stack vs a casual duo is exponentially higher and it makes the game completely unplayable for everyone but the 4-stack (and their other teammates, but even then, most are not securing any kills because the 4-stack is literally deleting the entire lobby left and right instantly).

4-stacks need to be pushed into the "competitive" 4v4 queue and the mode needs to be adjusted to be arena style, best of 3 rounds, 1 life per round. Duo BGers are essentially gambling their queue time and play time on the notion that there won't be a 4-stack in the queue, because when there is, that time is essentially wasted.

The question is simple and clear. Very few poll threads in these forums are as clear and concise as this one. It is great that the OP did not make it complex and encompass many things, as it would tell us very little.

In the situation described, any group formed by a queue will be provided by a random group, depending on who is queueing at that moment. This is what anyone queueing with less than a full group should expect, regardless of the content.

I disagree because my answer is different based on the option being chosen.

My answer would be "Yes" for solo 8v8. My answer would be "Depends" or "No" for group 8v8 because of the issue that I shared in my post.

darvaria · November 12

Yes

Yes they are fun. But I wish ZOS would get maps that are not on 2 and 3 different levels. Why do you create so many hiding spaces? This serves nothing. I like to be able to see where the enemy team is ... like "how many are at the blacksmith sort of thing". Plus the flag games need to be a little longer.

fizzylu · November 12

No

No, not for me.... just seems mindless and not at all challenging. It's at least not as bad as 4v4 though where the match is decided in the first 2 minutes.

Amottica · November 13

Yes

Aldoss wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

I assume this poll is asking about the solo queue, in which I'd say, yes, it's fun.

However, that's neglecting a entire queuing population that also deserve to have a functioning and enriching playing experience.

The group queue is 99% composed of casual duo queuers. Games are really fun when the lobby is a mixture of casual and more advanced skilled duos.

This experience is demolished the second a 4-stack joins the 8v8. The power limit of a coordinated 4-stack vs a casual duo is exponentially higher and it makes the game completely unplayable for everyone but the 4-stack (and their other teammates, but even then, most are not securing any kills because the 4-stack is literally deleting the entire lobby left and right instantly).

4-stacks need to be pushed into the "competitive" 4v4 queue and the mode needs to be adjusted to be arena style, best of 3 rounds, 1 life per round. Duo BGers are essentially gambling their queue time and play time on the notion that there won't be a 4-stack in the queue, because when there is, that time is essentially wasted.

The question is simple and clear. Very few poll threads in these forums are as clear and concise as this one. It is great that the OP did not make it complex and encompass many things, as it would tell us very little.

In the situation described, any group formed by a queue will be provided by a random group, depending on who is queueing at that moment. This is what anyone queueing with less than a full group should expect, regardless of the content.

I disagree because my answer is different based on the option being chosen.

My answer would be "Yes" for solo 8v8. My answer would be "Depends" or "No" for group 8v8 because of the issue that I shared in my post.

I understand the desire to express further. After all, he did suggest he wanted to hear about people's views, but the poll question was clear and direct. No assumption is needed.

ValarMorghulis1896 · November 13

Yes

Yes, but i liked the old 4:4:4 matches more!

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