It´s high time for more transparent windows

Lugaldu · September 16

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I mean, how did the first humans discover glass making and how to make the glass transparent?

For the first question: They might have found natural glass in its natural surrounding? In the end, it's molten rock or gravel (not sure what the most precise term would be in English). Quartz. Sand. Lava. Obsidian is a volcanic glass, Moldavite one that naturally occurs after meteorite impacts (I collect that stuff, so I know). I think the first cultures to produce artifical glass were Mesopotamian? But that's more a question for OP.

Before glass, windows were either not closed at all, or people used materials like animal skins, parchment or linen, or even translucent rock (alabaster was used, as far as I know), btw. In Asian it was often paper - it still can be seen in traditional Japanese architecture, for example.

Just as with the production of the first objects made of metal, copper, in the 8th millennium BC, people were initially interested in processing an interesting and "special" looking material for jewelry objects, mostly beads.It can therefore be assumed that when glass was accidentally created during other work processes (metallurgy, ceramic production) in the 3rd millennium BC, attention was first drawn to a "special" looking material and that this was then also first used for the production of beads - since beads are the oldest objects made of glass. In short.

JemadarofCaerSalis · September 16

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I mean, how did the first humans discover glass making and how to make the glass transparent?

For the first question: They might have found natural glass in its natural surrounding? In the end, it's molten rock or gravel (not sure what the most precise term would be in English). Quartz. Sand. Lava. Obsidian is a volcanic glass, Moldavite one that naturally occurs after meteorite impacts (I collect that stuff, so I know). I think the first cultures to produce artifical glass were Mesopotamian? But that's more a question for OP.

Before glass, windows were either not closed at all, or people used materials like animal skins, parchment or linen, or even translucent rock (alabaster was used, as far as I know), btw. In Asian it was often paper - it still can be seen in traditional Japanese architecture, for example.

That (and OP's post) is interesting.

I hadn't ever really thought about it.

But, who is to say that the peoples of Tamriel didn't go through much the same process? Only maybe a bit more efficient, in that they discover a consistent way to make transparent glass.

twev · September 18

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

twev wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

Oh, I thought you meant in a general sense in the game, not in housing.

I'm not sure how they'd even be able to do it in the game in general, you load into new areas when you enter a building etc, so how would you be able to show the inside if you were outside and vice versa? 🤔

They would have to take into account what is outside and add that to the 'interior'.

IE, if there is a tree growing outside a house, make a tree on the interior of the house, just on the other side of a window.

not sure how practical it is in the long run, and it wouldn't be able to capture things like people/animals going through, as those would also have to be placed and pathed.

For outside looking in, it would work in reverse. If there is a bookcase near the window, you place a bookcase near the window inside the model for the house.

Thats true, but the other side of the window would just be a static display.
I think that most players considering transparent windows assume that they'd be viewing a dynamic scene in real time on the other side of the glass.
And then we'd have discussions relating to 'My friend was walking passed my house window, but I couldn't see them, and they couldn't see me' issues.

Oh, for sure, it would be a static display and that would be something that people would just have to accept, because, without putting that interior into the actual overworld, there is no way to truly get a dynamic display without having it have a TON of overhead costs to display it. (with the caveat, they COULD put minor dynamic pieces in, such as an interior having a cat, placing a cat and having it pathed to occasionally go by the window or lay near a sunbeam

I was just saying that for NPC houses, there could be ways to create transparent windows, and have what is on the other side visible.

I personally don't think it is needed, though it would be neat to have.

For furnishings that we use in housing, I think there is a lot that could be done.

As someone else pointed out, give us panes of glass, square and otherwise and allow us to build our own windows.

Give us transparent versions of what we already have.

Since players are in charge of setting it up, and there is already a limit of what can be placed, then the players can decide whether having a dynamic 'exterior' view would be worth it.

Have you ever noticed the number of broken wall segments, laying horizontal, or tilted in rubble on the ground that have opaque windows showing illumination behind them?
crazyness.

I'm more annoyed by structures that show details like 2 windows on either side of a door on the exterior, and one window on either side of the door on the interior.

Or, arched windows/doors on one side of a wall, and square windows/doors on the other.

Don't get me started on multi-story houses with no stairwells inside for access to the upper floors.
Especially when the upper floor windows show illuminated glass.

JemadarofCaerSalis · September 18

twev wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

twev wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

Oh, I thought you meant in a general sense in the game, not in housing.

I'm not sure how they'd even be able to do it in the game in general, you load into new areas when you enter a building etc, so how would you be able to show the inside if you were outside and vice versa? 🤔

They would have to take into account what is outside and add that to the 'interior'.

IE, if there is a tree growing outside a house, make a tree on the interior of the house, just on the other side of a window.

not sure how practical it is in the long run, and it wouldn't be able to capture things like people/animals going through, as those would also have to be placed and pathed.

For outside looking in, it would work in reverse. If there is a bookcase near the window, you place a bookcase near the window inside the model for the house.

Thats true, but the other side of the window would just be a static display.
I think that most players considering transparent windows assume that they'd be viewing a dynamic scene in real time on the other side of the glass.
And then we'd have discussions relating to 'My friend was walking passed my house window, but I couldn't see them, and they couldn't see me' issues.

Oh, for sure, it would be a static display and that would be something that people would just have to accept, because, without putting that interior into the actual overworld, there is no way to truly get a dynamic display without having it have a TON of overhead costs to display it. (with the caveat, they COULD put minor dynamic pieces in, such as an interior having a cat, placing a cat and having it pathed to occasionally go by the window or lay near a sunbeam

I was just saying that for NPC houses, there could be ways to create transparent windows, and have what is on the other side visible.

I personally don't think it is needed, though it would be neat to have.

For furnishings that we use in housing, I think there is a lot that could be done.

As someone else pointed out, give us panes of glass, square and otherwise and allow us to build our own windows.

Give us transparent versions of what we already have.

Since players are in charge of setting it up, and there is already a limit of what can be placed, then the players can decide whether having a dynamic 'exterior' view would be worth it.

Have you ever noticed the number of broken wall segments, laying horizontal, or tilted in rubble on the ground that have opaque windows showing illumination behind them?
crazyness.

I'm more annoyed by structures that show details like 2 windows on either side of a door on the exterior, and one window on either side of the door on the interior.

Or, arched windows/doors on one side of a wall, and square windows/doors on the other.

Don't get me started on multi-story houses with no stairwells inside for access to the upper floors.
Especially when the upper floor windows show illuminated glass.

Yeah, I hate those, but having played a lot of games, including a lot of Bethesda ones, I have learned to ignore them. I already know that, for some reason, people who create the interiors and the people who do the exteriors, even if it is the same people, seem to forget exactly what the opposite looks like...

Neugeniko · November 2

Ohh I thought you were talking about the UI transparency problems.