It´s high time for more transparent windows

Lugaldu

Dear Devs,

it's been over two years since we got transparent windows. Please, it's time we got more models of transparent windows, I want to use something other than either the Reinforced Dwarf Glass window or the High Isle Window in my buildings.
What would be really cool, for example, would be a transparent glass panel without a frame that you can install in self-made window openings.

Thanks in advance! @ZOS_Kevin

WolfCombatPet

:c

I'm sorry the forums don't show how many people have upvoted a post.

Not until after we click on the thread and then mouseover the invisible tiny section to make upvotes appear.

I'll give your post a +1.
There is nothing left to add. We want transparent windows.

Lugaldu

Thanks!

Pelanora

It's CLEARLY time for transparent windows.


Missed opportunity there.


And.... yes please × 5000

Kisakee

Pelanora wrote: »

It's CLEARLY time for transparent windows.

Missed opportunity there.

What do you mean? OP couldn't be more CLEAR about it.

robwolf666

Oh, I thought you meant in a general sense in the game, not in housing.

I'm not sure how they'd even be able to do it in the game in general, you load into new areas when you enter a building etc, so how would you be able to show the inside if you were outside and vice versa? 🤔

LalMirchi

The Reinforced Dwarfglass Window, Massive is indeed an excellent example of how to do transparent windows well, Dwarven artistry at it's zenith https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Reinforced_Dwarfglass_Window,_Massive

I agree with OP, hopefully this could be extended to other types of windows as well? That would be awesome and very welcome.

Kisakee

robwolf666 wrote: »

I'm not sure how they'd even be able to do it in the game in general, you load into new areas when you enter a building etc, so how would you be able to show the inside if you were outside and vice versa? 🤔

Easy: Simply don't make it a new zone but implement it into the overworld. This will force the devs to no longer cheat on house interior as it's way bigger inside than it could ever be from the outer looks and of course people will go berzerk when their two decades old machine on minimum requirements from ten years ago will turn the game into a slide show. But other than that not a problem at all.

JemadarofCaerSalis

robwolf666 wrote: »

Oh, I thought you meant in a general sense in the game, not in housing.

I'm not sure how they'd even be able to do it in the game in general, you load into new areas when you enter a building etc, so how would you be able to show the inside if you were outside and vice versa? 🤔

They would have to take into account what is outside and add that to the 'interior'.

IE, if there is a tree growing outside a house, make a tree on the interior of the house, just on the other side of a window.

not sure how practical it is in the long run, and it wouldn't be able to capture things like people/animals going through, as those would also have to be placed and pathed.

For outside looking in, it would work in reverse. If there is a bookcase near the window, you place a bookcase near the window inside the model for the house.

kind_hero

There are so many possibilities! Glass windows, but I also want more stained glass windows, because they have such a great effect in changing the overall atmosphere in a room! The recent ones are either small or dark.

TaSheen

Every time I see this thread title, I think "yeah, microsoft is going to do that all right".

I too would really love true transparency for at least some windows....

Lugaldu

TaSheen wrote: »

Every time I see this thread title, I think "yeah, microsoft is going to do that all right".

I too would really love true transparency for at least some windows....

While it would be cool to implement this throughout the game, I would be happy if it was done for more structural furnishings in housing. I mean, first we wanted it for years and then High Isle brought two structural furnishings with transparent windows - which seemed like a good start - but since then... nothing. That's sad!

Just_Attivi

Transparency isn't really ZOS' Forte...

But clear windows for housing would be nice

WolfCombatPet

Different furnishings could be made from this one model:

1) This window with nothing in the middle. No glass at all.

2) This window, nothing in the middle (no glass), and a rectangular/slim/tall wall surrounding it. The wall would be the same height as "Colovian Doorway, Stone". The width would be just a few inches on either side of the window.

3) Sell us glass as a standalone furnishing we can place anywhere we want.
Different sized transparent glass.
Different colors of stained transparent glass.

Now we could mix and match all kinds of different stained or transparent glass into this one window model.

katanagirl1

I think they might be trying to be somewhat historically accurate for a medieval era game. Glass in that time frame was hard to create and was not very transparent. Even stained glass in churches let light in but was not very transparent. It was probably very expensive to acquire as well.

It would make more sense that Dwemer glass would be transparent, since they supposedly have a more advanced technology.

I can understand the desire for more transparent windows, but just like toilets and running water, it just isn’t appropriate for the level of technology for the time period.

There is also the argument for the instances being different for outside and inside of homes, but that is a game limitation.

Syldras

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It would make more sense that Dwemer glass would be transparent, since they supposedly have a more advanced technology.

It's true that they probably had the most advanced furnaces - there are lore bits about this when it comes wo smithing, but it certainly also plays a role when it comes to glass.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I think they might be trying to be somewhat historically accurate for a medieval era game. Glass in that time frame was hard to create and was not very transparent. Even stained glass in churches let light in but was not very transparent. It was probably very expensive to acquire as well.

This is also correct, but ESO isn't really historically accurate most of the time anyway (which could all be explained by magic existing on Nirn, of course), even if we leave out the Dwemer and CWC. The huge amount of books everywhere (or even the fact that almost everyone seems to be able to read), the general cleanliness, and when it comes to furniture, there are some styles (in particular Alinor and the Vvardenfell styles as well as one set of paintings) that aren't medieval but copies from real world 18/19th century furniture anyway. The cardgame is also something that wouldn't have been possible as a common tavern game - much too complicated to produce. Also: music boxes.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I can understand the desire for more transparent windows, but just like toilets and running water, it just isn’t appropriate for the level of technology for the time period.

Indoor plumbing already existed in ancient Rome (although of course only available to the wealthy - then again, if books are widely available in ESO, people might also be able to afford other things that were rare and expensive in reality ).

wolfie1.0.

I agree windows 11 needs to be transparent!







I didn't bother to read any context other than the title.

katanagirl1

Syldras wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

It would make more sense that Dwemer glass would be transparent, since they supposedly have a more advanced technology.

It's true that they probably had the most advanced furnaces - there are lore bits about this when it comes wo smithing, but it certainly also plays a role when it comes to glass.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I think they might be trying to be somewhat historically accurate for a medieval era game. Glass in that time frame was hard to create and was not very transparent. Even stained glass in churches let light in but was not very transparent. It was probably very expensive to acquire as well.

This is also correct, but ESO isn't really historically accurate most of the time anyway (which could all be explained by magic existing on Nirn, of course), even if we leave out the Dwemer and CWC. The huge amount of books everywhere (or even the fact that almost everyone seems to be able to read), the general cleanliness, and when it comes to furniture, there are some styles (in particular Alinor and the Vvardenfell styles as well as one set of paintings) that aren't medieval but copies from real world 18/19th century furniture anyway. The cardgame is also something that wouldn't have been possible as a common tavern game - much too complicated to produce. Also: music boxes.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I can understand the desire for more transparent windows, but just like toilets and running water, it just isn’t appropriate for the level of technology for the time period.

Indoor plumbing already existed in ancient Rome (although of course only available to the wealthy - then again, if books are widely available in ESO, people might also be able to afford other things that were rare and expensive in reality ).

The closest thing I have seen to a bathroom is a pit latrine in Murkmire somewhere. It didn’t look very modern or hygienic to me. I’ve done a lot of stealing into private residences and never seen anything other than a freestanding bathtub. I don’t recall seeing a toilet in any structure that could considered public either.

EDIT: typo

Lugaldu

katanagirl1 wrote: »

The closest thing I have seen to a bathroom is a pit latrine in Murkmire somewhere. It didn’t look very modern or hygienic to me. I’ve done a lot of stealing into private residences and never seen anything other than a freestanding bathtub. I don’t recall seeing a toilet in any structure that could considered public either.

Probably you mean this one (I was also surprised when I first saw it - but who knows, maybe its even not intended as a toilet, but to lay eggs...?):

Ilumia

There are two wishes in this thread that are quite different as I see it.
One is more transparent windows to place/furnish with.
Another is more transparent windows in houses old or new.

The first one doesn't seem like an issue to me at all. If I'm building a house from scratch and want to see out the windows, that shouldn't increase requirememts since I already could before I blocked other parts off with structures.
If I suddenly get functional windows in any of my old houses, that would take quite a lot integration of the inside and outside cells with each other. I also imagine it's a thing outside of player housing since there probably similar assets in thoose houses. I mean I'd be great, but lots of work.

It would also be great if the old window furnishing designs would get another obtainable version with more transparent glass.
Just release them on rolis and make a pack called windows x (x=number of designs in the bundle)

Kisakee

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I think they might be trying to be somewhat historically accurate for a medieval era game. Glass in that time frame was hard to create and was not very transparent. Even stained glass in churches let light in but was not very transparent. It was probably very expensive to acquire as well.

It would make more sense that Dwemer glass would be transparent, since they supposedly have a more advanced technology.

I can understand the desire for more transparent windows, but just like toilets and running water, it just isn’t appropriate for the level of technology for the time period.

Why cares about historical accuracy! I've seen someone building a modern Resident Evil CITY including skyscrapers, burning cars in the streets and more in just a single house and it was awesome!

xilfxlegion

agreed.


would also love for mirrors to actually reflect

twev

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

Oh, I thought you meant in a general sense in the game, not in housing.

I'm not sure how they'd even be able to do it in the game in general, you load into new areas when you enter a building etc, so how would you be able to show the inside if you were outside and vice versa? 🤔

They would have to take into account what is outside and add that to the 'interior'.

IE, if there is a tree growing outside a house, make a tree on the interior of the house, just on the other side of a window.

not sure how practical it is in the long run, and it wouldn't be able to capture things like people/animals going through, as those would also have to be placed and pathed.

For outside looking in, it would work in reverse. If there is a bookcase near the window, you place a bookcase near the window inside the model for the house.

Thats true, but the other side of the window would just be a static display.
I think that most players considering transparent windows assume that they'd be viewing a dynamic scene in real time on the other side of the glass.
And then we'd have discussions relating to 'My friend was walking passed my house window, but I couldn't see them, and they couldn't see me' issues.

Syldras

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t recall seeing a toilet in any structure that could considered public either.

One tavern in Fargrave has one, if I'm not completely wrong now.

twev

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I think they might be trying to be somewhat historically accurate for a medieval era game. Glass in that time frame was hard to create and was not very transparent. Even stained glass in churches let light in but was not very transparent. It was probably very expensive to acquire as well.

It would make more sense that Dwemer glass would be transparent, since they supposedly have a more advanced technology.

I can understand the desire for more transparent windows, but just like toilets and running water, it just isn’t appropriate for the level of technology for the time period.

There is also the argument for the instances being different for outside and inside of homes, but that is a game limitation.

The Roman empire (for one example of a previous society) had the technology for running water and central heating inside individual houses.
Sure, it wasn't for everyone, but it existed.
When the empire fell - that technology was largely lost to Europe for most of the next thousand years.

These people in game can barely get commercial transportation working.
Notice the number of stationary carts and wagons you see in game.
I've only seen two instances in game in years where there was an actual dray horse in harness between the cart shafts, and both of those were stationary.

Syldras

twev wrote: »

These people in game can barely get commercial transportation working.
Notice the number of stationary carts and wagons you see in game.
I've only seen two instances in game in years where there was an actual dray horse in harness between the cart shafts, and both of those were stationary.

They also have no schools (only one Bosmer who is clearly insane as he claims he's a "school teacher" and teaches "the children" - who obviously are nowhere either), but everyone can read.

There are not enough farms or plantations to feed everyone, but still, no one looks malnourished.

Many settlements don't even have a single well.

There aren't even enough houses for all people you come across.

JemadarofCaerSalis

twev wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

Oh, I thought you meant in a general sense in the game, not in housing.

I'm not sure how they'd even be able to do it in the game in general, you load into new areas when you enter a building etc, so how would you be able to show the inside if you were outside and vice versa? 🤔

They would have to take into account what is outside and add that to the 'interior'.

IE, if there is a tree growing outside a house, make a tree on the interior of the house, just on the other side of a window.

not sure how practical it is in the long run, and it wouldn't be able to capture things like people/animals going through, as those would also have to be placed and pathed.

For outside looking in, it would work in reverse. If there is a bookcase near the window, you place a bookcase near the window inside the model for the house.

Thats true, but the other side of the window would just be a static display.
I think that most players considering transparent windows assume that they'd be viewing a dynamic scene in real time on the other side of the glass.
And then we'd have discussions relating to 'My friend was walking passed my house window, but I couldn't see them, and they couldn't see me' issues.

Oh, for sure, it would be a static display and that would be something that people would just have to accept, because, without putting that interior into the actual overworld, there is no way to truly get a dynamic display without having it have a TON of overhead costs to display it. (with the caveat, they COULD put minor dynamic pieces in, such as an interior having a cat, placing a cat and having it pathed to occasionally go by the window or lay near a sunbeam

I was just saying that for NPC houses, there could be ways to create transparent windows, and have what is on the other side visible.

I personally don't think it is needed, though it would be neat to have.

For furnishings that we use in housing, I think there is a lot that could be done.

As someone else pointed out, give us panes of glass, square and otherwise and allow us to build our own windows.

Give us transparent versions of what we already have.

Since players are in charge of setting it up, and there is already a limit of what can be placed, then the players can decide whether having a dynamic 'exterior' view would be worth it.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

twev wrote: »

These people in game can barely get commercial transportation working.
Notice the number of stationary carts and wagons you see in game.
I've only seen two instances in game in years where there was an actual dray horse in harness between the cart shafts, and both of those were stationary.

They also have no schools (only one Bosmer who is clearly insane as he claims he's a "school teacher" and teaches "the children" - who obviously are nowhere either), but everyone can read.

There are not enough farms or plantations to feed everyone, but still, no one looks malnourished.

Many settlements don't even have a single well.

There aren't even enough houses for all people you come across.

Yeah, sometimes things need to be 'cut' or just implied to be there, in order for it to not negatively impact the gameplay. (ie framerate, making the overworld be too big for many computers to be able to handle it, not to mention the time it would take to place everything and map out 'okay, we have this many people, we need X houses for them and we need Y farms for them, and we need to make sure the roads are logistically okay for that farm to get food to the town' and so on.)

More time would likely be spent working that out than it would be on the actual gameplay.
(plus, the whole physics of having a horse pull a cart. It can be done, but is the payout worth the effort?)

Most games I have played often don't have things that would have HAD to be present for that particular society to work. They are, however, typically implied to be there, or you will see one that is meant to be representative of what is likely out in the world, you just can't come across it.

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Yeah, sometimes things need to be 'cut' or just implied to be there, in order for it to not negatively impact the gameplay. (ie framerate, making the overworld be too big for many computers to be able to handle it, not to mention the time it would take to place everything and map out 'okay, we have this many people, we need X houses for them and we need Y farms for them, and we need to make sure the roads are logistically okay for that farm to get food to the town' and so on.)

Yes, and I'm fine with that.

But this also means that we can't really say whether Tamriel's societies are currently able to produce something or not, just because we don't see the technology for it.

There are masses of books everywhere in the game, but there isn't a single place where they are made. Yes, I know we got a few items for book manufacturing with the Necrom update - which aren't even Tamrielic, but Apocryphean - , after 10 years, but that's still not much.

So where are the books all coming from? Or are there some special techniques or magic to create them? Maybe knowledge passed on by Hermaeus Mora? Then another daedra could have taught the mortals about making clear glass windows

In the end, it's an arbitrary decision by the creators what they find fitting for the world or not.

JemadarofCaerSalis

Syldras wrote: »

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Yeah, sometimes things need to be 'cut' or just implied to be there, in order for it to not negatively impact the gameplay. (ie framerate, making the overworld be too big for many computers to be able to handle it, not to mention the time it would take to place everything and map out 'okay, we have this many people, we need X houses for them and we need Y farms for them, and we need to make sure the roads are logistically okay for that farm to get food to the town' and so on.)

Yes, and I'm fine with that.

But this also means that we can't really say whether Tamriel's societies are currently able to produce something or not, just because we don't see the technology for it.

There are masses of books everywhere in the game, but there isn't a single place where they are made. Yes, I know we got a few items for book manufacturing with the Necrom update - which aren't even Tamrielic, but Apocryphean - , after 10 years, but that's still not much.

So where are the books all coming from? Or are there some special techniques or magic to create them? Maybe knowledge passed on by Hermaeus Mora? Then another daedra could have taught the mortals about making clear glass windows

In the end, it's an arbitrary decision by the creators what they find fitting for the world or not.

I also agree. That was sort of my point, in that many things would ultimately add little to actual gameplay, and thus are cut in favor of actual gameplay. Realism is fine, but it can also be fine to ignore it.

In the end, I would rather have a game be fun, and give players things that the players want (within reason of course), than have a game that is based upon fantasy be hampered by being 'historically accurate' to the real world. (the caveat being that if a game labels itself as historically accurate, it better do its best to be historically accurate)

I also agree that some prince or daedra somewhere could have taught mortals how to make transparent windows, or, since the dwemer have been studied quite a lot, someone saw one of their windows and experimented until they figured out how. There are so many ways that they can introduce it. I mean, how did the first humans discover glass making and how to make the glass transparent?

Syldras

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

I mean, how did the first humans discover glass making and how to make the glass transparent?

For the first question: They might have found natural glass in its natural surrounding? In the end, it's molten rock or gravel (not sure what the most precise term would be in English). Quartz. Sand. Lava. Obsidian is a volcanic glass, Moldavite one that naturally occurs after meteorite impacts (I collect that stuff, so I know). I think the first cultures to produce artifical glass were Mesopotamian? But that's more a question for OP.

Before glass, windows were either not closed at all, or people used materials like animal skins, parchment or linen, or even translucent rock (alabaster was used, as far as I know), btw. In Asian it was often paper - it still can be seen in traditional Japanese architecture, for example.