Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

It seems you are having trouble blocking obviously telegraphed abilities and sets. To improve your PvP skills, especially regarding blocking and the rush of agony set, consider these resources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/16xqis1/basic_pvp_guide/
Basic PVP Guide: This guide covers the fundamentals of PvP, including the importance of having a dedicated PvP build and understanding different PvP modes like Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. It emphasizes the need for burst damage and effective potion use to enhance survivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHyy7A79cQ
New Player PVP Guide: A concise video guide that discusses essential tips for beginners, including build recommendations and strategies for improving your gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzQYR0a6rc
How to Sustain in PvP: This video focuses on sustaining resources during PvP encounters, which is crucial for maintaining your effectiveness in battle.

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

It seems you are having trouble blocking obviously telegraphed abilities and sets. To improve your PvP skills, especially regarding blocking and the rush of agony set, consider these resources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/16xqis1/basic_pvp_guide/
Basic PVP Guide: This guide covers the fundamentals of PvP, including the importance of having a dedicated PvP build and understanding different PvP modes like Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. It emphasizes the need for burst damage and effective potion use to enhance survivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHyy7A79cQ
New Player PVP Guide: A concise video guide that discusses essential tips for beginners, including build recommendations and strategies for improving your gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzQYR0a6rc
How to Sustain in PvP: This video focuses on sustaining resources during PvP encounters, which is crucial for maintaining your effectiveness in battle.

It seems like you are having trouble reading. You put a lot of effort into linking all that stuff without addressing any point I made. Instead you just say lEaRN 2 PlaY to anyone who disagrees. Definitely comes across as elitist and condescending. Again my original complaint was not about counterplay, I only started talking about it because it was brought up.

Any half way decent group did just fine prior to it being introduced and would be fine with it nerfed, they would just adapt like always. The only groups that vehemently defend it are bad ones who lack damage and those who don't know how to move well together or know how to kite /bait players. I'm sure there's a video out there that will show you how to do that.

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

gronoxvx wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I can remember being in a ball group before we had proc sets that stacked the enemy for you. Your crown had to use positioning and coordination to wipe another group in one fell swoop. The wayshrine stacks them almost as well as RA or DC.
Of course a ball group is more organized and that enables them to do what they do. Did it have to become much easier for them though? It's rare to see a whole ball get stacked & wiped by a solo, or small group. So these sets, whom do they serve?

Saruman?

These sets got aoe burst nerfed. Harmony, proxy det, and necro (I guess corrosive dk bombers too) were all nerfed as a result of pull sets. That took a lot of power from small group and solo bombers who could use those aoe bursts effectively, and now you hardly ever see them kill groups. Of course now the only ones who can effectively and consistently use these sets are ball groups. These pull sets are really unhealthy for the game, that's when I started noticing a large decrease in player pop. Whether that's the case or not, it certainly didn't help things.

There is obvious counterplay to every single one of the pull sets. You literally just have to hold block. If you see someone gap close in and turn red then hold block or even if you just see the ball group push into pugs. If you see a big circle with a purple bubble at the middle then hold block. If you can't adapt to the counterplay available then no amount of changes will help you.

I would only say there's obvious counterplay to DC, which is hardly used now. Rush got a buff in range so now you can get pulled from way out of your camera view. There isn't a visual cue like DC has, and if it's laggy block doesn't work half the time. Not to mention an 8 second cool down with decent damage also. And the biggest issue is it doesn't obey immunity rules so you can yo yo people if you have more than 1 pull set. I've had this done to me and done this to people. it's not really fair either way. The main point I was making was that it made bombing too trivial which led to the nerf of a lot of burst aoe which hurt a lot of solo and small group play. It also dumbed down ball grouping to a degree. Groups before would have to know how to kite and bait players to chokes better, now you have choke points on demand.

The defensive and condescending attitude makes it seem like you're a user of this set, seeing as the main point of my comment wasn't to cry about the lack of counterplay. Any decent group doesn't need to crutch on this set to get kills, my problem was it indirectly nerfed things that solo and small groups used to fight larger groups who have more sets and players, therefore naturally more damage at their disposal.

The visual cue for rush is a chain attaching to you similar to the DK chain. So its easily seen and can be blocked.

It's not really a visual cue if it happens as you're getting pulled in. And in many cases as others have said, it's laggy and there's already a ton of effects going on so no, it's not easily seen. Also as others have said blocking slows you so you will likely be stuck in the bomb area anyways, and on top of that rush is almost always followed up with an unblockable fear. I mean I get it, some people would prefer to have cheap easy kills with no counterplay. From my experience running it a lot, I would say around 90% of people won't escape it. So much for being easily countered. If it really was then no one would be using it. DC is much more telegraphed and has a very reasonable cooldown of 25 seconds. Because you can avoid it better you don't see it used as often, especially not from ball groups.

It seems you are having trouble blocking obviously telegraphed abilities and sets. To improve your PvP skills, especially regarding blocking and the rush of agony set, consider these resources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/16xqis1/basic_pvp_guide/
Basic PVP Guide: This guide covers the fundamentals of PvP, including the importance of having a dedicated PvP build and understanding different PvP modes like Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil. It emphasizes the need for burst damage and effective potion use to enhance survivability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AHyy7A79cQ
New Player PVP Guide: A concise video guide that discusses essential tips for beginners, including build recommendations and strategies for improving your gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nzQYR0a6rc
How to Sustain in PvP: This video focuses on sustaining resources during PvP encounters, which is crucial for maintaining your effectiveness in battle.

It seems like you are having trouble reading. You put a lot of effort into linking all that stuff without addressing any point I made. Instead you just say lEaRN 2 PlaY to anyone who disagrees. Definitely comes across as elitist and condescending. Again my original complaint was not about counterplay, I only started talking about it because it was brought up.

Any half way decent group did just fine prior to it being introduced and would be fine with it nerfed, they would just adapt like always. The only groups that vehemently defend it are bad ones who lack damage and those who don't know how to move well together or know how to kite /bait players. I'm sure there's a video out there that will show you how to do that.

While I understand your frustration, I think it's a bit unfair to label all groups that defend the current mechanics as "bad ones." Many players have different playstyles and strategies that can be effective even if they don't align with traditional notions of skill or coordination. Dismissing their perspectives as merely a lack of ability overlooks the diversity in gameplay experiences and the potential for valid critiques of the system. Not every successful group operates under the same principles, and adaptability can manifest in various ways.