incoming damage notification or auto dodge?

deadpool3431 · September 13

Pvp veterans, especially the ones that attack from stealth know that there are times when a player is "mysteriously" aware that damage is incoming and they're able through ahem "divine intervention" to dodge all incoming damage even undodgeable/unblockable aoe damage. Luckily those incidents have been few. Lately there has been a large up-tick in said incidents. Everyone I play with has noticed. Either everyone has gotten amazing and psychic or there's something else going on. And before anyone says it's skill, no it isn't. There are good players who can do this, but they are few. This is a much larger percentage than there are players that good. This is something like old miats addon. Does anyone have insight into what I'm talking about?

Just_Attivi · September 13

So, as someone who cant come off 'offline mode' without whispers filling with 'nice hax' and such messages, I will say this on the matter:

There are definitely some people doing shady things, but I think that number is far fewer than people think.

Most experienced pvp'ers have some intuition toward what is coming in a brawl (seeing that a burst is being lined up, seeing that theyre waiting for your resources to be low based on how you play, etc) and this CAN lead to some dodge rolls that may seem fishy. I will use 2 obvious examples of it for ease of description: Nightblade cloaked mid fight- likely incoming merciless resolve or incap, I'd dodge roll half a second after I see them go cloak, barring lag issues. DK cast breath, flames of oblivion, and searing strikes, then hits a fossilize- i KNOW a triple stacked whip and/or leap is coming, break free and dodge.

Additionally, depending on the class you are fighting, some people pretty much automatically dodge 7 seconds after breaking free from a stun if the class they are fighting has a dodgeable stun

Sometimes players also do odd things. For example, if I even think anyone is near, Ill do a random dodge roll sometimes, and hug line of sight objects, especially if crossing an open-ish field (think sej porch, or the field between fare/alessia, places gankers love to hang out). If i have a bow build, Ill occasionally dodge roll for major expedition. When on a NB, i drink pots on cooldown to build ulti, the pots I use are detects, because I may as well see if anyones around me, and this has spotted people lining up a gank on me more times than i could count- and earned whispers/mail claiming i am cheating because how could i know lol.

If you use the 'Sentry" set, anyone not currently invisible but actively crouching in stealth will get alerted by their 'eye' popping fully 4 times. anytime this happens, I dodge roll toward some line of sight, every 2 seconds and hopefully can make it there within 8 seconds or I will be struggling in stam, and about 4-6 seconds in i drink my detect pot if its ready, to try to see whos around and where, so I can try to defend better.

Some skills, such as Lethal Arrow/Snipe, make an audible sound you can hear when it is launched (assuming your ping isnt through the roof). If i hear it, I block or dodge, detect pot and look around. Skills like incap and merciless resolve also have an audible cue about half a second before they land, and can be reacted to accordingly.

speaking of audio cues, combat music is a thing, as is a red aura around your screen while in menus, anytime someone initiates combat with you. this can sometimes give someone a clue that somethings about to happen (and a great many people seem to play with no sound at all, some just no music, and you honestly miss a ton of audio tips without it. for example, you can hear an enemy drink a potion, and realize they were pressed for resources. quiet music = you know combat is happening near if not directly to you, because the music changes)

The biggest problem right now, which makes all manner of things seem extra fishy (and I cant say none of these people are doing anything fishy, I watched someone walking through the sky recently, and a Warden using arcanist tentacles within the last 2 weeks, same name from both northern storm and flail in my kill recap, not like it was a stealth buddy i just didnt see, so def some shady things happening) but the absolutely abysmal performance and latency issues make everything seem bogus. seen people dodge my heavy attack from stealth, wondering how they knew, and my partner tells me I lagged, was out of stealth for a full second, and then started the heavy animation, and it was *OBVIOUS* even though from my end I did not witness that at all. Ive had the same thing happen to her, where I called out a really bad play and she witnessed something totally different. This isnt always the explanation obviously, and its worth noting that even when your in game latency meter says a great ping, it only reads your ping every 10-20 seconds it seems. Ive lagged out, hard, full stop for 9 seconds, and my ping kept reading 100 lol, so often times with how bad performance is right now, you or the opposing party may be experiencing lag without it being clearly apparent, and depending on the priority of data, this can lead to some unfair advantages (ive fought people that seemingly were always 1 step ahead, were always behind me, always around a LOS etc, and its genuinely just poor server performance). I absolutely hate calling what very well could be shady actions ''just lag bro'' but it is unfortunately the case more often than not right now. Theres entire threads going back to May about this performance and how its just getting worse daily and has been for 4 months now, that have many examples of such actions in them, if you want to reference it, and again, theres definitely some shady things, but hopefully the above scenarios can give some insight and at least help rule out some actions of legitimate players.

xDeusEJRx · September 14

I think it's probably just intuition. Especially when you are the type who plays every class, you tend to know how they behave. I know if a nightblade cloaks before approaching me they're probably trying to line up burst. So my choice is to either dodge away from them, reveal, or turtle up.

Templars are easy to counter if you bash weave, because more often than not most templars in PVP use radiant and if you bash weave you will probably 1/3 times interrupt a templar the moment they go to radiant you.

I think that's probably more what you're dealing with. When you're seasoned and you've played every class you come to know what to expect from that class so pre-emptively dodging dangerous combos is essential counterplay.
Now that's just me guessing because your original post is ambiguous and doesn't give specific examples so I can only theorize

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · September 14

Miats notifies you of incoming range attacks still

deadpool3431 · September 15

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Miats notifies you of incoming range attacks still

Ty. Something I can test and report if true.

deadpool3431 · September 15

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

I think it's probably just intuition. Especially when you are the type who plays every class, you tend to know how they behave. I know if a nightblade cloaks before approaching me they're probably trying to line up burst. So my choice is to either dodge away from them, reveal, or turtle up.

Templars are easy to counter if you bash weave, because more often than not most templars in PVP use radiant and if you bash weave you will probably 1/3 times interrupt a templar the moment they go to radiant you.

I think that's probably more what you're dealing with. When you're seasoned and you've played every class you come to know what to expect from that class so pre-emptively dodging dangerous combos is essential counterplay.
Now that's just me guessing because your original post is ambiguous and doesn't give specific examples so I can only theorize

No. It's happening too much for intuition.
I've been in cyrodiil a long time. It's beginning to remind me of when everyone learned of miats and the entire pvp population started to use it. Some players learned a way to keep using old miats. I know who they are and actively avoid them because reporting it does no good.
Skills like snipe are easy to dodge because you can hear it before it lands. Its why i havent had it slotted in 3 years. Some make no sound until it's too late. People are dodging those from stealth.

deadpool3431 · September 15

Just_Attivi wrote: »

So, as someone who cant come off 'offline mode' without whispers filling with 'nice hax' and such messages, I will say this on the matter:

There are definitely some people doing shady things, but I think that number is far fewer than people think.

Most experienced pvp'ers have some intuition toward what is coming in a brawl (seeing that a burst is being lined up, seeing that theyre waiting for your resources to be low based on how you play, etc) and this CAN lead to some dodge rolls that may seem fishy. I will use 2 obvious examples of it for ease of description: Nightblade cloaked mid fight- likely incoming merciless resolve or incap, I'd dodge roll half a second after I see them go cloak, barring lag issues. DK cast breath, flames of oblivion, and searing strikes, then hits a fossilize- i KNOW a triple stacked whip and/or leap is coming, break free and dodge.

Additionally, depending on the class you are fighting, some people pretty much automatically dodge 7 seconds after breaking free from a stun if the class they are fighting has a dodgeable stun

Sometimes players also do odd things. For example, if I even think anyone is near, Ill do a random dodge roll sometimes, and hug line of sight objects, especially if crossing an open-ish field (think sej porch, or the field between fare/alessia, places gankers love to hang out). If i have a bow build, Ill occasionally dodge roll for major expedition. When on a NB, i drink pots on cooldown to build ulti, the pots I use are detects, because I may as well see if anyones around me, and this has spotted people lining up a gank on me more times than i could count- and earned whispers/mail claiming i am cheating because how could i know lol.

If you use the 'Sentry" set, anyone not currently invisible but actively crouching in stealth will get alerted by their 'eye' popping fully 4 times. anytime this happens, I dodge roll toward some line of sight, every 2 seconds and hopefully can make it there within 8 seconds or I will be struggling in stam, and about 4-6 seconds in i drink my detect pot if its ready, to try to see whos around and where, so I can try to defend better.

Some skills, such as Lethal Arrow/Snipe, make an audible sound you can hear when it is launched (assuming your ping isnt through the roof). If i hear it, I block or dodge, detect pot and look around. Skills like incap and merciless resolve also have an audible cue about half a second before they land, and can be reacted to accordingly.

speaking of audio cues, combat music is a thing, as is a red aura around your screen while in menus, anytime someone initiates combat with you. this can sometimes give someone a clue that somethings about to happen (and a great many people seem to play with no sound at all, some just no music, and you honestly miss a ton of audio tips without it. for example, you can hear an enemy drink a potion, and realize they were pressed for resources. quiet music = you know combat is happening near if not directly to you, because the music changes)

The biggest problem right now, which makes all manner of things seem extra fishy (and I cant say none of these people are doing anything fishy, I watched someone walking through the sky recently, and a Warden using arcanist tentacles within the last 2 weeks, same name from both northern storm and flail in my kill recap, not like it was a stealth buddy i just didnt see, so def some shady things happening) but the absolutely abysmal performance and latency issues make everything seem bogus. seen people dodge my heavy attack from stealth, wondering how they knew, and my partner tells me I lagged, was out of stealth for a full second, and then started the heavy animation, and it was *OBVIOUS* even though from my end I did not witness that at all. Ive had the same thing happen to her, where I called out a really bad play and she witnessed something totally different. This isnt always the explanation obviously, and its worth noting that even when your in game latency meter says a great ping, it only reads your ping every 10-20 seconds it seems. Ive lagged out, hard, full stop for 9 seconds, and my ping kept reading 100 lol, so often times with how bad performance is right now, you or the opposing party may be experiencing lag without it being clearly apparent, and depending on the priority of data, this can lead to some unfair advantages (ive fought people that seemingly were always 1 step ahead, were always behind me, always around a LOS etc, and its genuinely just poor server performance). I absolutely hate calling what very well could be shady actions ''just lag bro'' but it is unfortunately the case more often than not right now. Theres entire threads going back to May about this performance and how its just getting worse daily and has been for 4 months now, that have many examples of such actions in them, if you want to reference it, and again, theres definitely some shady things, but hopefully the above scenarios can give some insight and at least help rule out some actions of legitimate players.

It's not lag. I know the difference.

AlterBlika · September 16

There are addons that can notify you about any attack in pve. I heard that some of them used to work in pvp until their devs patched it out (so it isn't considered a hack or something). If it hasn't been patched out by ZOS (so addons don't know there's an attack coming) I'm pretty sure there are such addons, they just aren't public.
You don't even need real cheats or hacks, game itself tells you that other player is attacking you.

Of course people may just be good at pvp, some of them play for years after all

ForumSavant · September 16

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Miats notifies you of incoming range attacks still

This is the only answer you need to know. Don't know why it exists in the game. I don't even play a ganker but it's odd that it's allowed.

yourhpgod · September 17

There were addons that gave this kind of info Miats being one of them. If it still runs.

Elendir2am · September 17

There are specific names in Cyro, who, after they got hit by Flame Clench, dodge roll and avoid knocks down. The AFTER is important word in my sentence.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 17

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Miats notifies you of incoming range attacks still

It doesn't. It literally can't, because ZOS removed the API to do so.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 17

Hey everyone spouting lies about Miat's:

Miat's cannot give incoming attack notifications anymore. ZOS removed the API that allowed addons to do that.

If something is giving someone incoming attack notifications, it isn't an addon, and it's definitely not Miat's.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · September 18

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hey everyone spouting lies about Miat's:

Miat's cannot give incoming attack notifications anymore. ZOS removed the API that allowed addons to do that.

If something is giving someone incoming attack notifications, it isn't an addon, and it's definitely not Miat's.

You might want to try the addon, it gives a sound notification when you're targeted. Personally I don't use it but I've seen and heard it on streams of other players

ZeroAxis · September 18

It is incredibly obvious when it happens. To the point of being comical. If Devs spent time in Cyrodiil at peak hours it would not take long for them to encounter it. Is it an add on? Hard to say. Is it CE? Also hard to say. Having seen people flying and moving underground, I’m sure something is being used. But there’s also plenty of legit players who are just very good at timing. Can’t accuse everyone of using dirty stuff, but it is certainly alive and well.

Desiato · September 18

ZeroAxis wrote: »

If Devs spent time in Cyrodiil at peak hours it would not take long for them to encounter it. Is it an add on? Hard to say. Is it CE? Also hard to say. Having seen people flying and moving underground, I’m sure something is being used. But there’s also plenty of legit players who are just very good at timing. Can’t accuse everyone of using dirty stuff, but it is certainly alive and well.

The devs know better than anyone how vulnerable eso is to cheating. The cost and effort of mitigating cheating in pvp is probably one of the factors that resulted in them "giving up" on Cyrodiil. It's basically vulnerable to every trick in the book and the devs don't take action against specific methods until they become widespread. Fortunately, competitive aspect of ESO aren't popular so there doesn't seem to be much of a market for commercial cheats for this game.

But what the OP is describing can't necessarily be correlated with cheating. When I considered myself a decent player many years ago, I didn't use Miats and there was always a 'tell' of some sort that I could read and react to before getting ganked. I largely had the same experience as a much worse player recently.

deadpool3431 · September 18

Desiato wrote: »

ZeroAxis wrote: »

If Devs spent time in Cyrodiil at peak hours it would not take long for them to encounter it. Is it an add on? Hard to say. Is it CE? Also hard to say. Having seen people flying and moving underground, I’m sure something is being used. But there’s also plenty of legit players who are just very good at timing. Can’t accuse everyone of using dirty stuff, but it is certainly alive and well.

The devs know better than anyone how vulnerable eso is to cheating. The cost and effort of mitigating cheating in pvp is probably one of the factors that resulted in them "giving up" on Cyrodiil. It's basically vulnerable to every trick in the book and the devs don't take action against specific methods until they become widespread. Fortunately, competitive aspect of ESO aren't popular so there doesn't seem to be much of a market for commercial cheats for this game.

But what the OP is describing can't necessarily be correlated with cheating. When I considered myself a decent player many years ago, I didn't use Miats and there was always a 'tell' of some sort that I could read and react to before getting ganked. I largely had the same experience as a much worse player recently.

Miats is cheating. Even zos says it's cheating. They just don't enforce the rules apparently

ZeroAxis · September 19

There are add ons used that give alerts in PvE. Those are heavily relied on and even mandatory in some trial groups. That said, I don’t know that they work like that in PvP but there is a video only a month old showing it in use. I wont touch add ons like that and I honestly think that any add on that alters the state of combat, PvE or PvP, should not be permitted. Level the playing field for everybody and call it a day.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 19

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hey everyone spouting lies about Miat's:

Miat's cannot give incoming attack notifications anymore. ZOS removed the API that allowed addons to do that.

If something is giving someone incoming attack notifications, it isn't an addon, and it's definitely not Miat's.

You might want to try the addon, it gives a sound notification when you're targeted. Personally I don't use it but I've seen and heard it on streams of other players

I do use it, and guess what? It does not play a noise when you are targeted, as ZOS' API does not allow for that. It gives a sound notification when you enter combat with a new enemy, i.e., the first time an enemy shows up on your encounter log file.

Stop spreading misinformation. Miat's has been around for years, and ZOS has removed the ability for addons to do the things you are claiming it can do.

forum_gpt · September 19

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hey everyone spouting lies about Miat's:

Miat's cannot give incoming attack notifications anymore. ZOS removed the API that allowed addons to do that.

If something is giving someone incoming attack notifications, it isn't an addon, and it's definitely not Miat's.

You might want to try the addon, it gives a sound notification when you're targeted. Personally I don't use it but I've seen and heard it on streams of other players

I do use it, and guess what? It does not play a noise when you are targeted, as ZOS' API does not allow for that. It gives a sound notification when you enter combat with a new enemy, i.e., the first time an enemy shows up on your encounter log file.

Stop spreading misinformation. Miat's has been around for years, and ZOS has removed the ability for addons to do the things you are claiming it can do.

you're 100% correct

StaticWave · September 20

When I still used Miats (after ZOS removed the API), for some reason with specific abilities like Snipe, I could randomly hear a “ding” sound if someone is casting it on me. It wasn’t just a one-time thing either. Whenever I heard that “ding” sound, appropriately 2-3 seconds later I would be sniped from stealth. Not sure if it still works like that though.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 20

StaticWave wrote: »

When I still used Miats (after ZOS removed the API), for some reason with specific abilities like Snipe, I could randomly hear a “ding” sound if someone is casting it on me. It wasn’t just a one-time thing either. Whenever I heard that “ding” sound, appropriately 2-3 seconds later I would be sniped from stealth. Not sure if it still works like that though.

That was likely the new attacker sound. The person in stealth enters combat with you, and is thus a new attacker, so you hear a noise that someone new has entered combat with you.

The noise would not happen on subsequent attacks, as it's not the attack itself causing the noise.