Buff Weapon Based Single Target Melee Damage

Thumbless_Bot · September 9

There is a lot of risk in running a melee build, especially in the meta ZOS has created where most players stand 35-40 meters away and try to nuke each other down. However, there is little reward with this melee play style as the melee weapon skills do not hit much harder than their ranged counterparts. It has created a significant imbalance in the game.

For example unbuffed dizzy hits for 9719 on one of my builds. I have to be within 7 meters for this to land

Snipe unbuffed on the same build hits for 8197 plus 5 percent within 15 meters plus 1314 critical. Snipe has a 35m range unbuffed by Reach passive and 40 buffed.

This is absolutely not balanced.

Dizzy, and other single target weapon skills, should hit significantly harder given the resources required to position oneself within range of a ranged enemy before someone can actually hit them.

El_Borracho · September 9

Make stinging slashes great again!

Kartalin · September 9

I agree there's definitely a risk that comes with playing in melee range that should be rewarded, but we also have to be mindful that with any changes we suggest there's a chance it upsets balance in 1) PVE and 2)fighting ball groups. In light of that we could perhaps utilize the Reach passive in the Assault skill line. Perhaps something like this:

Current Reach passive:
Increases the range of long-range abilities by 2/5 meters while near a keep or outpost. Any ability with a range greater than 28 meters is affected.

New Proximity passive:
Increases either the range or damage of single target abilities while near an objective. When targeting an enemy at a range greater than 28 meters, increase the range by 2/5 meters. When targeting an enemy at a range less than 10 meters, increase the damage by 2/5%.

Something like that perhaps? That way PVE is unaffected by any changes, and at the same time restricting it to single target attacks, the ball groups who rely on AOE attacks would also not be inadvertently buffed.

Thumbless_Bot · September 9

Kartalin wrote: »

I agree there's definitely a risk that comes with playing in melee range that should be rewarded, but we also have to be mindful that with any changes we suggest there's a chance it upsets balance in 1) PVE and 2)fighting ball groups. In light of that we could perhaps utilize the Reach passive in the Assault skill line. Perhaps something like this:

Current Reach passive:
Increases the range of long-range abilities by 2/5 meters while near a keep or outpost. Any ability with a range greater than 28 meters is affected.

New Proximity passive:
Increases either the range or damage of single target abilities while near an objective. When targeting an enemy at a range greater than 28 meters, increase the range by 2/5 meters. When targeting an enemy at a range less than 10 meters, increase the damage by 2/5%.

Something like that perhaps? That way PVE is unaffected by any changes, and at the same time restricting it to single target attacks, the ball groups who rely on AOE attacks would also not be inadvertently buffed.

I think this on the right track. However, I would limit this to weapons as to not mess with class identity/skills... just a general thought from my perspective but if done right, sure. I wouldn't know what right looked like for class skills tbh.

Also, from a done right perspective, I do not believe 5% is anywhere even close to enough. If I can track down that ranged player, spending all the resources, pots, etc. To do it, the buff should be a lot more than 5, 10 or even 15 percent.

This is all about risk/reward. Ranged players have the reward for taking build risks by boosting their damage and skirting away unscathed. There is not enough reward for melee players when they risk running melee and use their resources to hunt down that ranged player and succeed. Our damage skills should reflect the reward and it does not, currently. Hence the current meta.

Kartalin · September 9

Oh yeah, the numbers can be tweaked, absolutely. But consider the 2h weapon where all abilities are melee. It's possible either the individual skills or specifically 2h passives need a buff instead of tweaking the reach passive. In your first post you compare the damage of dswing and mention no 2h passives, and compare that to snipe + bow passives + assault passives. Are 2h passives too weak, are bow passives doing too much? Something to consider.

LittlePinkDot · September 9

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

There is a lot of risk in running a melee build, especially in the meta ZOS has created where most players stand 35-40 meters away and try to nuke each other down. However, there is little reward with this melee play style as the melee weapon skills do not hit much harder than their ranged counterparts. It has created a significant imbalance in the game.

For example unbuffed dizzy hits for 9719 on one of my builds. I have to be within 7 meters for this to land

Snipe unbuffed on the same build hits for 8197 plus 5 percent within 15 meters plus 1314 critical. Snipe has a 35m range unbuffed by Reach passive and 40 buffed.

This is absolutely not balanced.

Dizzy, and other single target weapon skills, should hit significantly harder given the resources required to position oneself within range of a ranged enemy before someone can actually hit them.

Snipe is a poor comparison because it's cast time is ridiculously slow. You cannot really spam snipe.
A more accurate comparison would be to compare skills like force pulse, magnum shot, soul wield, swallow soul, screaming cliff racer etc.

As for melee... Make gap closers great again. It shouldn't be too difficult to get close to a ranged caster if you slot a gap closer.

Thumbless_Bot · September 9

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

There is a lot of risk in running a melee build, especially in the meta ZOS has created where most players stand 35-40 meters away and try to nuke each other down. However, there is little reward with this melee play style as the melee weapon skills do not hit much harder than their ranged counterparts. It has created a significant imbalance in the game.

For example unbuffed dizzy hits for 9719 on one of my builds. I have to be within 7 meters for this to land

Snipe unbuffed on the same build hits for 8197 plus 5 percent within 15 meters plus 1314 critical. Snipe has a 35m range unbuffed by Reach passive and 40 buffed.

This is absolutely not balanced.

Dizzy, and other single target weapon skills, should hit significantly harder given the resources required to position oneself within range of a ranged enemy before someone can actually hit them.

Snipe is a poor comparison because it's cast time is ridiculously slow. You cannot really spam snipe.
A more accurate comparison would be to compare skills like force pulse, magnum shot, soul wield, swallow soul, screaming cliff racer etc.

As for melee... Make gap closers great again. It shouldn't be too difficult to get close to a ranged caster if you slot a gap closer.

I used snipe and dizzy specifically because they both have .8 second cast time. Gap closers cost resources...

Thumbless_Bot · September 9

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

There is a lot of risk in running a melee build, especially in the meta ZOS has created where most players stand 35-40 meters away and try to nuke each other down. However, there is little reward with this melee play style as the melee weapon skills do not hit much harder than their ranged counterparts. It has created a significant imbalance in the game.

For example unbuffed dizzy hits for 9719 on one of my builds. I have to be within 7 meters for this to land

Snipe unbuffed on the same build hits for 8197 plus 5 percent within 15 meters plus 1314 critical. Snipe has a 35m range unbuffed by Reach passive and 40 buffed.

This is absolutely not balanced.

Dizzy, and other single target weapon skills, should hit significantly harder given the resources required to position oneself within range of a ranged enemy before someone can actually hit them.

Snipe is a poor comparison because it's cast time is ridiculously slow. You cannot really spam snipe.
A more accurate comparison would be to compare skills like force pulse, magnum shot, soul wield, swallow soul, screaming cliff racer etc.

As for melee... Make gap closers great again. It shouldn't be too difficult to get close to a ranged caster if you slot a gap closer.

The only passive that would impact two handed skills is Follow Up which would require a heavy attack and only lasts 3 seconds. Other passives would be accounted for in tooltip

Cast_El · September 9

NB is the weakest pvp class ! Buff it ! 🤣
Seriously dude...

Thumbless_Bot · September 10

Cast_El wrote: »

NB is the weakest pvp class ! Buff it ! 🤣
Seriously dude...

Not sure if you posted on the wrong thread...but thanks for replying anyway...

No one is arguing nb isn't broken but everyone has access to melee weapons, which is what this thread is about... single target melee weapon skills needing a buff... I mean, it's in the title.

LittlePinkDot · September 10

Nightblade isn't that bad. If you catch them they'll die.

Trying to kill a sorc thats spamming hardened ward is busted.

Urzigurumash · September 10

We need a skill where we can spin around and wind up and throw our 2h Hammer like we're in the Olympics