How to get that 20k+ spectral bow

bladenick · July 30

Theignson wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

There cheating always exist, due to the burst dmg of NB， it easy to cover the cheating activity. Believe me, it absolutely cheating if a solo NB hit you 2.1k spectral now

I assume you meant "21k".

But I dont think this NB cheats. He has played for many years and plays all the time so his combo is honed to perfection. He plays in a group that could give him buffs such as Major courage , etc that could raise his Bow above 20k. Plus, I've killed this player many times , it isnt as if he's in god mode.

I got my Bow up to 16.8K. Getting closer.

Your 16.3k build get glass cannon and zero defense, but still 5k dmg gap, 5k is not small number that could be done by add single buff or debuff. Once your failed, you dead by detect pot as you don’t have any surviving gear. Remember the dmg of spectral bow relied on stat set, which is widely surpass and fall behind by proc set now day

You could check if that 21k spectral bow opponents get terrible defend and survival stat, such as resistance, speed and mag/stem recovery, The displayed spectral arrow dmg get no benefit from proc and pure rely on weapon/spell dmg and dmg buf ,

I’m not play Cy, Only BG, had try multiple build, 16k spectral bow is the limitation for a melee glass cannon, the most efficiency ganker is range proc NB, which get damage from proc set.

I had observing honest NB cheater don’t hiding any thing, he’s on my team and 1 shot every opponent he encounter, totally don’t hiding and run, survive in 1 v n, until ult ready and do the one shot again. I just stay 20 meter away and audience his show time. A smart cheater just tune the number wisely and difficult to identify , but normally, you surprisingly found a 16k incap and 16k spectral NB one shot you, but still get tank like defend and speed, it cheating

Just like any competition game, cheating for win
Is widely exist, even in FTG game, just avoid cheater, in most case it normal player fighting with you. Normally The cheater get tired soon

Alchimiste1 · July 30

bladenick wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

There cheating always exist, due to the burst dmg of NB， it easy to cover the cheating activity. Believe me, it absolutely cheating if a solo NB hit you 2.1k spectral now

I assure you it's possible to hit those numbers solo buffed and without cheats. Last one was actually against the emp of a previous campaign.

Show you build, or just back to your house and hit the dummy with your 23k spectral bow build, then let do the damage calculation/analysis.

But you could deny and still keep it secret

There is nothing special about the build. Its rallying cry+ orders+ balorg.
I can hit a training dummy if you want but its going to be missing the 300 weapon/spell damage from rallying cry + Im probably going to over pen on a training dummy

Alchimiste1 · July 30

bladenick wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

There cheating always exist, due to the burst dmg of NB， it easy to cover the cheating activity. Believe me, it absolutely cheating if a solo NB hit you 2.1k spectral now

I assure you it's possible to hit those numbers solo buffed and without cheats. Last one was actually against the emp of a previous campaign.

Show you build, or just back to your house and hit the dummy with your 23k spectral bow build, then let do the damage calculation/analysis.

But you could deny and still keep it secret

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFuKkVJm8zA

I'm not sure if that's what you want. I'm not full damage, I have a recovery glyph, and I have 1 swift on because this is my solo 1vX setup. Not sure how you are going to use that for analysis but there you go.

This is also the exact setup I used in all those previous screenshots. I'm not saying you are going to hit 20k+ bows every time or on everyone. But they are more common they you would think.

Turtle_Bot · July 30

100% possible to get 20k+ spec bows on players in PvP, even on brawler builds.

My NB is a hybrid brawler/ganker (no proc sets, just below 30k health, nearly 2k recoveries, mitigation and utility skills slotted) and I still regularly hit 15k+ spec bows and have hit 20k+ bows plenty of times (even got a 25k spec bow on a tanky player that was debuffed by a nearby group, instantly killed them from over half health with 1 button press).

My build:

Gear:

Note1: I had to put non-set gear into the build editor because the editor doesn't properly disable the 2-4 piece bonuses of other sets when equipping Torc of last Aylied king mythic.
Note2: All gear is CP 160, despite showing the names of lower level gear. This is just something with the editor, it applies the correct CP 160 stats for generic non-set gear, but just doesn't have the correct names for the generic CP 160 non-set gear.

For those who don't know what the Torc mythic is/does:

Skills:

Refreshing Path is a flex spot, you can run ice staff back bar instead of my resto and slot ele sus instead for easier uptime of back bar damage glyph + major breach + all the status effects and debuffs ele sus provides.

The stats of my build:

Unbuffed:

Buffed (self buffs only, but includes continuous):

Merciless tooltip when buffed:

This typically hits for around 13-18k against targets that aren't blocking, about 5-7k against targets that are blocking and will hit blocking troll tanks for about 2-3k.
Against a debuffed target (breach, incap, vuln, etc.), or if this ability crits, this will easily hit for 20k+ on a target that doesn't block.

A few things to note:

The gear all has tri-stat glyphs.
Race is Khajiit
Warrior Mundus (weapon damage)
Attributes = 30 Mag, 34 Stam (like I said, it's a hybrid brawler/ganker build).
CPs are:
- Blue: Fighting Finesse (+8% crit damage/healing), Exploiter (+10% damage done to off balance targets), Deadly Aim (+6% single target damage) and Master-At-Arms (+6% direct damage)
- Red: Boundless Vitality (+1400 health), Slippery (auto break-free once per 21 seconds), Celerity (+10% movement speed) and Rejuvenation (+90 to all recoveries)
  Note: Slippery and Rejuv are flex spot CP. You can run Bastion for +15% damage done to shielded enemies (sorcs) or any of the other CP that are in the red tree.
potions used are tri-stat potions, I occasionally use weapon power pots if I want to pre-buff for a gank attempt.
Shadowy Disguise means that I can force Merciless Resolve to critically strike, dealing up to 188% damage.
This build has less overall damage, but more defense, than a standard Balorghs + Rallying Cry + Orders Wrath build
This build doesn't have procs that can be stacked on top of Merciless Resolve's damage for mega bursts of damage.
This build lacks the max critical damage that true gank builds have as those usually sit at or over the crit damage cap.
Glass cannon Gank builds will typically do the following to reach much higher tooltips for merciless resolve than what I have shown for my build:
- use skills such as Frenzy to match the raw weapon damage of my build
- max out on critical damage (often going above the cap to account for impen/rallying cry)
- max out on damage attributes (all points into 1 stat, non-recovery food, and single attribute enchants)
- much higher penetration (sitting closer to 15k base penetration)

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I'm not saying you are going to hit 20k+ bows every time or on everyone. But they are more common they you would think.

Exactly, it won't happen every time and is a rare thing if you are going against a top tier player with a good build, but it is very much possible to hit well 20k. Even hitting over 30k is possible if everything lines up (crit, squishy target that's debuffed, etc).

bladenick · July 30

I only play BG, I don’t play Cy so I don’t count on CP, and I also don’t have that mythic
You get Max buff, I don’t believe it common case and there too much restriction.

And I don’t know the final weapon damage after buff, 5600 DMG will only end at 16k spectral bow damage displayed in character sheet, I doubt may need 10k weapon damage to end at 30k spectral bow plate damage, you still get some unusual buff not from NB class, and not available in BG

xylena_lazarow · July 30

bladenick wrote: »

and I also don’t have that mythic

Are mythics cheating?

bladenick · July 30

Theignson wrote: »

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

I guess You get answer, but not you desired, it still unclear what environment buff increase spectral damage to 32K

bladenick · July 30

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

and I also don’t have that mythic

Are mythics cheating?

but that 5000 weapon damage will only end at 15k spectral bow, dont have that mythic, can’t test it, I can only assuming use that mythic to reach same 5000 Weapon damage will end at different spectral now damage in character sheet. Or the max buff double your spectral bow dmg, but never aware what sort of buff

Turtle_Bot · July 30

The buffs I have active to get that tooltip on spec bow are as follows:

Major Brutality/Sorcery (+20% weapon/spell damage)
Minor Courage (+215 weapon/spell damage)
Strike from Shadows passive (+300 weapon/spell damage)
5 stacks of merciless resolve (+60 weapon/spell damage per stack = +300 total)
Continuous attack (+10% weapon/spell damage)
Incapacitating strike debuff (+20% damage taken by enemy)

Note: There are numerous other buffs/debuffs/effects that I don't have in my build that others will have in their builds to increase this damage significantly.

There are numerous debuffs in the game that will increase the damage your target takes that will not show up on the tooltip because they are not affecting your characters stats, they are affecting the targets stats. As such, the numbers shown on the in-game tooltips on abilities are not an accurate indicator of just how much damage an ability will deal to a target, since the tooltips never include anything being applied to the target that modifies the damage taken by that target.

a_u_s_t_y · July 30

It’s easy.. stack crit damage and pen.. khajit, shadow mundus, 2 1h axes, shattered fate, rally cry, ssc/ddf = profit

HEBREWHAMMERRR · July 30

I run rallying + tarnished + balorgh + saint and seducer and can hit 20k. I run 2H so empower from wrecking blow into a bow helps, also helps to apply ele sus and having the tarnished proc sunder helps to achieve these numbers.

bladenick · July 31

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

The buffs I have active to get that tooltip on spec bow are as follows:

Major Brutality/Sorcery (+20% weapon/spell damage)
Minor Courage (+215 weapon/spell damage)
Strike from Shadows passive (+300 weapon/spell damage)
5 stacks of merciless resolve (+60 weapon/spell damage per stack = +300 total)
Continuous attack (+10% weapon/spell damage)
Incapacitating strike debuff (+20% damage taken by enemy)

Note: There are numerous other buffs/debuffs/effects that I don't have in my build that others will have in their builds to increase this damage significantly.

There are numerous debuffs in the game that will increase the damage your target takes that will not show up on the tooltip because they are not affecting your characters stats, they are affecting the targets stats. As such, the numbers shown on the in-game tooltips on abilities are not an accurate indicator of just how much damage an ability will deal to a target, since the tooltips never include anything being applied to the target that modifies the damage taken by that target.

I still don’t understand how to make spectral bow show 32K damage in skill info page

That build is easy to emulate with other damage set , to get 5000 weapon dmg, it only end at 16k spectral bow in skill explanation, and you already use tat 1500 dmg mythic, but still get the rally cry, then there N vs 1 mode that you get numerous buff from teammate, and there poor guy in opposite site there poor guy get numerous debuff, then dead by 21K spectral bow, but whatever he will dead as he is in N vs 1 scenario

The build post above is nothing special in offense side, in BG, that build even get difficult to land special bow with 16k dmg because totally without Pen,

I still wondering how to get 32K spectral bow dmg in tooltip by any means, it top secrect now , as many dmg increase buff will not direct affect skill indicators, and a 5000 weapon dmg build end at 32k spectral plate dmg is too attractive, it easily one shot most opponents in 1v1 even tank build. there auto buff dummy in my guild house, I’ll try what number I could reach with those 20+ buff added

bladenick · July 31

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

I run rallying + tarnished + balorgh + saint and seducer and can hit 20k. I run 2H so empower from wrecking blow into a bow helps, also helps to apply ele sus and having the tarnished proc sunder helps to achieve these numbers.

Proc set damage is separate displayed in death recap or combat log. I guess your damage is 16k spectral bow + 5k glass shatter. Yes That possible but still need some luck as the early incap not trigger proc and both spectral bow and glass shatter need critical, and need help debugging from teammate

Because everyone thought it possible even it in extreme scenario which sometimes no practice value, there some cheater just hit you in 1V1 scenario with highest dmg which normally only possible in extreme scenario with help of teammate and CP, and pretend they get secret build and cover the cheating

bladenick · July 31

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

It’s easy.. stack crit damage and pen.. khajit, shadow mundus, 2 1h axes, shattered fate, rally cry, ssc/ddf = profit

There guy reply early and tried this in solo with out help of teammate, normally only 16k dmg by single spectral bow, may need some lucky as hit low resistant newbie/glass canon oppoent with all buff in peak status to reach 21k. But it too coincide and not reproduced so far

Turtle_Bot · July 31

bladenick wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

The buffs I have active to get that tooltip on spec bow are as follows:

Major Brutality/Sorcery (+20% weapon/spell damage)
Minor Courage (+215 weapon/spell damage)
Strike from Shadows passive (+300 weapon/spell damage)
5 stacks of merciless resolve (+60 weapon/spell damage per stack = +300 total)
Continuous attack (+10% weapon/spell damage)
Incapacitating strike debuff (+20% damage taken by enemy)

Note: There are numerous other buffs/debuffs/effects that I don't have in my build that others will have in their builds to increase this damage significantly.

There are numerous debuffs in the game that will increase the damage your target takes that will not show up on the tooltip because they are not affecting your characters stats, they are affecting the targets stats. As such, the numbers shown on the in-game tooltips on abilities are not an accurate indicator of just how much damage an ability will deal to a target, since the tooltips never include anything being applied to the target that modifies the damage taken by that target.

I still don’t understand how to make spectral bow show 32K damage in skill info page

That build is easy to emulate with other damage set , to get 5000 weapon dmg, it only end at 16k spectral bow in skill explanation, and you already use tat 1500 dmg mythic, but still get the rally cry, then there N vs 1 mode that you get numerous buff from teammate, and there poor guy in opposite site there poor guy get numerous debuff, then dead by 21K spectral bow, but whatever he will dead as he is in N vs 1 scenario

The build post above is nothing special in offense side, in BG, that build even get difficult to land special bow with 16k dmg because totally without Pen,

I still wondering how to get 32K spectral bow dmg in tooltip by any means, it top secrect now , as many dmg increase buff will not direct affect skill indicators, and a 5000 weapon dmg build end at 32k spectral plate dmg is too attractive, it easily one shot most opponents in 1v1 even tank build. there auto buff dummy in my guild house, I’ll try what number I could reach with those 20+ buff added

I think I see the main problems/source of confusion now.

1. The tooltips in game don't show damage done against a specific target, they simply show damage against a target with zero armor, no percent mitigation and no damage taken modifiers. As such, the tooltips from the game will always be different to the tooltips that are shown on the build editor since those build editor tooltips do include those percent modifiers that the in game tooltips don't include.

2. You are also playing in battlegrounds. Those disable champion points which is another significant modifier to tooltips and damage.

3. (least important but still creates that difference) Since you are not running the mythic, you're raw weapon/spell damage won't be as high as mine. You are reaching 5k weapon/spell damage with your build, but mine is sitting nearly 6k unbuffed and over 8k when fully buffed up. That is between 1k and 3k difference in weapon/spell damage right there or between 9% and 25% difference in tooltip values.

Due to glass cannon gank builds investing more into modifiers such as penetration, critical damage, percent damage taken debuffs and percent damage done buffs, they can easily hit for much harder than their tooltips will show, because the values that the tooltips displayed in game are very inaccurate due to not including the effects these damage modifiers have on the actual damage being done to a target, where the tooltips on the build editor will show the effect these modifiers have on the tooltips that the build editor will display.

As an example, if we take your 16k tooltip as the damage done to a target and apply the following in-game damage modifiers to it, we can see that despite only having a 16k tooltip, it will still deal over 20k actual damage:

1. the 2 CP stars deadly aim and master-at-arms, raising its damage by 12% to 17.92k damage.
2. then we force it to crit by casting shadowy disguise right before casting the bow (which makes our next attack a guaranteed critical strike) which applies the crit damage cap modifier of +125%, this would deal increase the damage done to 40.32k.
3. we then apply battle spirit (-50% damage taken) which reduces that damage done to the target down to 20.16k
4. we then apply our targets armor (assuming the target was at the 33k cap, and we reduce this 33k cap by both breaches (3+6=9k) and an estimated 12k pen stat (for 21k total armor reduction), this leaves the armor value at about 12k which gives roughly 18% mitigation from their armor) this reduces the damage done by spec bow down to 16.53k
5. then if our target was also off balance and debuffed with incap, we then apply those debuff percentage damage taken values to their damage taken which would be +10% +20% = +30% damage taken which gives that critical spec bow a damage done value to that target of 21.5k against that debuffed target.

As was stated before, this will not line up every time spec bow is cast, and can be potentially increased or decreased even further if the target forgets to keep their armor buffs up or there are other named buffs/debuffs active on you or the target at the time.

TL//DR:
There's no "big secret" being hidden from players, it is all there in game. It is simply just that the games tooltips are very simplistic and incomplete in the numbers that they display compared to the actual damage being done which the build editor tooltips will more accurately reflect because the build editor tooltips includes more of these in game modifiers than the in game tooltips include.

divnyi · July 31

Light armor also adds damage% taken for phys, so I think the highest numbers are just hitting guys in slippers.

Tinkerhorn · July 31

My 28k health Templar runs 20k phys resist when fully buffed. I would say it's fairly uncommon to see a 20k with most hitting around 8-16k, the second most common range being 4-8k but sometimes you get the spectacular 20-22k when caught unbuffed from an incap into spectral bow hit or just a thrown in spectral bow in the middle of a fight when I've not ourged a myraid of debuffs.
I would consider myself pretty squishy compared to most in Cyro so clearly to hit the 20k range you do need the stars to align on squishier builds and a player to lapse in buff management. Spectral bow can hit stupidly large for what the skill requires but it is very uncommon in my experience.

bladenick · August 10

I just show a exmple of well tuned cheater, in BG, hit by 15k incap and 15k spectral bow in 1v1 senario, with out debuff and buff from teammate, it definitly possible, anybody would say this, but i guess nobody will deny it need achieve by squish build focus on offense, ,but he looks like a tank build if you dont hit by this, move slowly, dont cast cloak in most case, my conceal weapon only take 2000+ dmg on him.

definity I totally dont throught he could one shot anyone, but suddently, you dead and death recap show this, I get Pisiji order Ult slot in 1 bar and Alliance line skill sloted in both bar, it mean 15% dmg mitigatin 1 bar and 10% dmg mitigation in another, and with Vamp stage 3 definitly

Actually, I never hit by any NB in BG by this high dmg so far except this dude, even squish glass cannon NB build could not reach this high,(majority glass cannon NB in BG is range proc ganker) but this tank NB hit me with this..

I thought this just show how a well advocate cheater play the game, if you independently anaysis any single senario, everything he did is possible, but if you overall looking all senario and consider this done by a single player with 1 build in same BG match, you will found something intresting here

And it very clear oneshot death, even with out a light attack in between, and judging by dmg recap, you could see how much HP i get, the last hit power extract still get 5800+ dmg,with all vampire mitigation almost reach the cap, this skill toolkit dmg on my build just show 5k dmg.

xylena_lazarow · August 10

bladenick wrote: »

And it very clear oneshot death

Not a one shot. You can react after Incap Bow before Power Extraction. You also had chip damage on you.

bladenick · August 10

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

And it very clear oneshot death

Not a one shot. You can react after Incap Bow before Power Extraction. You also had chip damage on you.

No, with 230ms lag, it impossibke, it may only possible if I continually press interrupted before the incap coming, but never try as normally I can’t predict uncap if it coming out from invisible. Most of my opponents also get 200ms+ lag, it same for me to land incap + spectral bow without any problem, it guarantees combo, only dodge able attack is the last power extract or also could be conceal weapon, it depend on if lag even more worst, roughly 5/5 , i had observers my opponent last action is breake free when I lading the conceal weapon after spectral bow
Whatever in my circumstances, incap + spectral bow is 100% guaranteed both for my NB or NB in other side

Sluggy · August 10

I think some of you are forgetting one of the strongest damage boosts in the game as well. Riposte from the blue CP tree. That's ANOTHER 33% damage if applied correctly. Granted, it's super hard to pull off for a minmax situation in a fight but some people are able to and when they hit it's basically over.

silky_soft · August 13

Saying you can just breakout and dodge is a NA thing. Once you make it to top their bg on 225ms. It's over. You need to reroll, heal or pray. Those people under 50ms using autohotkey are just another level due to the game design.

bladenick · August 13

silky_soft wrote: »

Saying you can just breakout and dodge is a NA thing. Once you make it to top their bg on 225ms. It's over. You need to reroll, heal or pray. Those people under 50ms using autohotkey are just another level due to the game design.

depending on time zone, +200ms lag is at least 12 hour time differnt with NA, so normally all player log on in golden time located in same time zone, so generally, it fair enough. all get 200MS +lag

xylena_lazarow · August 13

silky_soft wrote: »

Saying you can just breakout and dodge is a NA thing. Once you make it to top their bg on 225ms. It's over. You need to reroll, heal or pray. Those people under 50ms using autohotkey are just another level due to the game design.

You maybe had a point at first, but no, it's not cheating. Some players are just faster than you.

Veinblood1965 · August 13

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Saying you can just breakout and dodge is a NA thing. Once you make it to top their bg on 225ms. It's over. You need to reroll, heal or pray. Those people under 50ms using autohotkey are just another level due to the game design.

You maybe had a point at first, but no, it's not cheating. Some players are just faster than you.

True. I play a nightblade bow ganker and when another NB tries ganking me it rarely succeeds due to quickly being able to dodge roll out of whatever is coming from the initial blast. Once in a while I get surprised however and they get me within a split second though. It's just due to reaction times mostly. The fun thing is to pop a detect pot and track them down for the kill lol.

As for the spectral bow. It is possible but everything does have to line up correctly.

Rlacoste · August 18

if only we were all in sync in this game, the fast players think they're good, this advantage is another reason why players give up and build tanks or join ball grps.

I haven't once felt I was in sync with other players in a 1vs1, they ALWAYS miles ahead of me, my skills go off, use my resources make the sounds but don't show up in log, like dawnbreaker missing 70% of the time yet i die to it 90% of the time.

I fought a NB 3 times on my DK yesterday and couldn't do more than 17k damage to them, while they doing 50k+

ESO players call this balance.

We are not in-sync with other players so we DO NOT want to 1vs1 you, run around in towers chasing you or anything to do with you.

Pop nerf coming your way soon, keep it up!!

Theignson · August 18

Sluggy wrote: »

I think some of you are forgetting one of the strongest damage boosts in the game as well. Riposte from the blue CP tree. That's ANOTHER 33% damage if applied correctly. Granted, it's super hard to pull off for a minmax situation in a fight but some people are able to and when they hit it's basically over.

Wow, I had no idea about this. Ive never seen a build that claimed to use it! But you're right, that would be a huge boost