How to get that 20k+ spectral bow

Theignson · July 13

I was on two different characters, one a squishy NB and the other a tanky Necro (yes I occasionally take my tank Necro into Zerodil still). The NB has about 13k resists while the Necro had 28k resists.
Same NB hit both of these with ~13k Incap and a 21K spectral bow. The resists made no difference to the spectral bow hit (the incap I think hit lower on the Necro). My NB of course died but the Necro lived to tell the tale of his close encounter.

I've tried to get my spectral bow to this level. Most recently I put my NB in Shattered Fate, Oakfather, Balorgh. He had 30k penetration, 7k weapon damage, 95% crit damage. But my top spectral bow all night was only 13k!

Please, NBs, after 10 years please tell me the secret of how to get a 20k+ spectral bow. I don't think I can get my stats much higher. Even max crit damage would get this build not much closer to the goal.
If it isnt stats, it must be something in the combo?

I recall React in his videos showing that if he set the player off balance with concealed weapon he got a stronger hit. But is this the secret?

xylena_lazarow · July 13

Are you ganker or brawler? Gank builds hit that, brawlers maybe against debuffed squishies, generally 13-14k is decent for brawlers. The 20% unique vuln debuff applied by Incap is big, and you don't look like you run enough crit damage if you mean 1.95x when you should be close to the 2.25x cap. You don't need to double up on pen with both Balo and Shattered, I'm not convinced Oakfather is even any good, instead do sets with crit like Order's, Gourmand, Rallying, NMG, etc.

Theignson · July 13

Thanks for your comments. This is actually something I've been trying to figure out for a long time. The reasoning behind my 30k penetration build was as follows: How could the player deal a 21k bow to both my characters when one of them had double the resistances? I reasoned that he must have at least 30k penetration to wipe out the resistances. So I was just trying this build yesterday to see if it would work (I have no idea if Oakfather is any good either).

The player who popped me with the 21k bows is well known to all of us on GH. You and I both have probably fought him hundreds of times. He runs in a small group, so its possible he gets group buffs such as major courage etc that help. Since I am running solo that could be the difference. This player builds his bow with icestaff LA from a distance, then goes invis, runs in and tries to land the Incap/bow, then disengages...rinse/repeat. Is he tanky? He runs at 3x + celerity speed always, and also takes relatively minimal damage. So I am unsure if he is a brawler or ganker build.

@React had a build some time back with NMG + Rallying cry. He could manage some 20k Bows, but I ran the exact build and could rarely get my bows even above 10k. He is a much better payer than me, so I figured it must be some combination (eg off balance) that enabled these hits.

After these many years I decided to see if some of the retired NB would reveal their secrets

Alchimiste1 · July 14

I’ve been getting frequent 20k + bows this patch. Max so far is 26k.

I think you can get similar numbers with rallying cry + almost any offense set. Just make sure you have all your buffs up and the enemy has breach. You’ll need to land the bow while having the incap debuff to hit the 20K mark. It’s just a matter of time

How many , and also which damage cp do you use ? Also what race is your nb?

StaticWave · July 15

I’ve been hit with a 21k bow twice. Both occured when my Rallying Cry was down and the NB had Balorgh with over 120 ult

Durham · July 16

NBs have insane healing, insane damage avoidance, and finally insane damage bursts. This is why it is 50% of the none-ball group population of Cyrodil.

On a nightly basis, the highest damage on me is a spectral bow.

DrNukenstein · July 16

max your tooltip and let your friends worry about buffs and debuffs. Make sure you bag them and message them "friend diff" after. Classic DC blade tactic.

Theignson · July 17

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I’ve been getting frequent 20k + bows this patch. Max so far is 26k.

I think you can get similar numbers with rallying cry + almost any offense set. Just make sure you have all your buffs up and the enemy has breach. You’ll need to land the bow while having the incap debuff to hit the 20K mark. It’s just a matter of time

How many , and also which damage cp do you use ? Also what race is your nb?

I use Master at Arms, Deadly Aim, Fighting finesse and Untamed aggression. One of my NB is an Orc, the other is a Khajit.

I used to use NMG and Rally and Balorgh on stage 3 Vamp but as far as I recall have never passed 20k!

Amazing to me that a basically free spell that boosts your weapon damage by 400 and gives a 50% heal hits twice as hard as the Ultimate. The spell is broken, but, as a NB you must use what they give you.

forum_gpt · July 17

Spectral Bow's damage output is exceptionally high, often outshining the power of ultimates. This creates an imbalance in the game, as it allows players to rely heavily on this single skill for massive damage, undermining the strategic diversity that should be encouraged in combat.

When a regular skill surpasses the effectiveness of ultimate abilities, it not only disrupts the intended power hierarchy but also diminishes the value and excitement of building up and using ultimates. The power disparity caused by Spectral Bow is evident in both PvP and PvE scenarios, leading to an over-reliance on this skill and reducing the variety of viable builds and strategies.

I urge the development team to review and adjust the damage output of Spectral Bow to better align it with other abilities and maintain a balanced and diverse combat environment. Ensuring that no single skill overshadows the rest is crucial for the health and enjoyment of the game.

Udrath · July 17

You run high damage with 100% crit damage or more but you need to catch someone with incap up AND when their rallying cry is down. Rallying cry only last 15 seconds and sometimes people forget to refresh it. So it takes some good timing, and baiting them by letting your health drop so they forget to refresh it.

Alchimiste1 · July 17

Theignson wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I’ve been getting frequent 20k + bows this patch. Max so far is 26k.

I think you can get similar numbers with rallying cry + almost any offense set. Just make sure you have all your buffs up and the enemy has breach. You’ll need to land the bow while having the incap debuff to hit the 20K mark. It’s just a matter of time

How many , and also which damage cp do you use ? Also what race is your nb?

I use Master at Arms, Deadly Aim, Fighting finesse and Untamed aggression. One of my NB is an Orc, the other is a Khajit.

I used to use NMG and Rally and Balorgh on stage 3 Vamp but as far as I recall have never passed 20k!

Amazing to me that a basically free spell that boosts your weapon damage by 400 and gives a 50% heal hits twice as hard as the Ultimate. The spell is broken, but, as a NB you must use what they give you.

You have 4 damage cp and a damage race, no problem with that at all. I actually only run 3 dmg CP so thats good.
On a nmg setup your bow will hit less but I think you should still be able to hit some 20Ks here and there.

I understand that this might not be specific to your build since you are using nmg and likely reacts newest build but some quick things to note.

If you are using an ice staff, refresh ele sus before hitting your bow. This will make it so minor vuln is on the target. Also, try do a quick cloak+bash before you go to hit the bow. You'll want to bash to hide the fact that you went into cloak and pull you out instantly. (most people start to hold block or roll spam once a nb goes into cloak) if you cloak+bash you still get the 300+ weapon/spell damage from the vamp 2 passive.

the only other thing is to try and hit the target while they are on their front bar. You'll get it eventually.

Sluggy · July 17

I don't think I've ever been hit with a number that high from stealth (at least not while buffed up and ready to fight). But I have been hit many times while actively fighting a nightblade, or usually a group that has a nightblade. There's a lot of things in their toolkit that weren't even mentioned here such as their passive increase to crits, their extremely easy access to Minor Courage and Minor Vulnerability. Throw in a crusher or weapon damage enchant and some sunder and you've got a pretty easy time getting big numbers.

I might hop on my nightblade this weekend and see what I can do. I just run spinners and mother's sorrow and slimecraw but I doubt that will slow me down much and I bet I can come close to that 20k just with the raw power the class provides.

bladenick · July 18

It not possible in BG, maybe possible in Cyridil

21K with battle spirit, means you need roughly 40 - 50k in PVE. it only possible with additonal buff which not Nightblade skill.

And there also possible, you get some guy cheating.. In BG, I had one hit 16k s dawnbreaker by NB. just first hit, not follow up DOT, in 1v1 senario, this number in my understand is totally not possible.

xylena_lazarow · July 18

bladenick wrote: »

It not possible in BG, maybe possible in Cyridil. 21K with battle spirit, means you need roughly 40 - 50k in PVE. it only possible with additonal buff which not Nightblade skill. And there also possible, you get some guy cheating.. In BG, I had one hit 16k s dawnbreaker by NB. just first hit, not follow up DOT, in 1v1 senario, this number in my understand is totally not possible.

This is all extremely wrong, all of these things are legitimately possible with the right build and debuffs.

divnyi · July 18

If I understand correctly, it is impossible to guarantee crit on spectral bow, only on incap.
And players stack crit damage, not crit chance on NB.
So highest numbers are not only debuffs, but also pure luck?

xylena_lazarow · July 18

divnyi wrote: »

So highest numbers are not only debuffs, but also pure luck?

Yes. But NB is generally about landing combos, you don't need 20k bows to be lethal.

Alchimiste1 · July 18

divnyi wrote: »

If I understand correctly, it is impossible to guarantee crit on spectral bow, only on incap.
And players stack crit damage, not crit chance on NB.
So highest numbers are not only debuffs, but also pure luck?

Not quite. If you are building for crit damage most sets have % crit chance increase in the 2-4 pieces. It's actually very easy to get over 45% crit chance on a high crit damage nb build. When you get to high levels of crit chance passively it stops feeling like rng.

divnyi · July 18

45% crit chance is still RNG though. Like, half a chance you down someone or not, not something that depends on your actions.

Alchimiste1 · July 18

So just do it again lol

divnyi · July 19

Very cyrodiil'ish take on this issue lol

Alchimiste1 · July 19

No I’m serious lol. It’s not like incap is an expensive ult also the incap debuff lasts 12s you can easily get another bow proc during that time

Alchimiste1 · July 19

I'm not saying there is no rng. But when you have that high crit chance its a lot less of a factor. You only need for 2 instances of damage to crit one of which you can make guaranteed. And even if only one crits its usually enough to get the other person into execute range. If you fail to kill, then you just keep pressuring the person.

I would say something like jabs +potl is much more rng because that that needs a lot more instances of damage to crit. It's the Same reason you don't see many nbs out there running acuity, because you can get similar results easily enough running a set that boosts the raw damage.

Sluggy · July 19

divnyi wrote: »

45% crit chance is still RNG though. Like, half a chance you down someone or not, not something that depends on your actions.

Like I said, I run old-school gear so my crit chance sits at about 67% chance when in combat. a 2/3 chance to one-tap a person in a combo? Yeah sure, I'll take those odds any day.

bladenick · July 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

It not possible in BG, maybe possible in Cyridil. 21K with battle spirit, means you need roughly 40 - 50k in PVE. it only possible with additonal buff which not Nightblade skill. And there also possible, you get some guy cheating.. In BG, I had one hit 16k s dawnbreaker by NB. just first hit, not follow up DOT, in 1v1 senario, this number in my understand is totally not possible.

This is all extremely wrong, all of these things are legitimately possible with the right build and debuffs.

In BG , no way, except other teammate help you give debug
Just go to your home, wear the most damage set, hit the dummy, then you will see in what circumstances does it possible, and does it really possible inBG

Theignson · July 22

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

bladenick · July 28

Theignson wrote: »

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

There cheating always exist, due to the burst dmg of NB， it easy to cover the cheating activity. Believe me, it absolutely cheating if a solo NB hit you 2.1k spectral now

xylena_lazarow · July 28

bladenick wrote: »

Believe me, it absolutely cheating if a solo NB hit you 2.1k spectral now

Cheating to reduce your damage in order to cover up your cheating. Now that's diabolical.

Theignson · July 29

bladenick wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

There cheating always exist, due to the burst dmg of NB， it easy to cover the cheating activity. Believe me, it absolutely cheating if a solo NB hit you 2.1k spectral now

I assume you meant "21k".

But I dont think this NB cheats. He has played for many years and plays all the time so his combo is honed to perfection. He plays in a group that could give him buffs such as Major courage , etc that could raise his Bow above 20k. Plus, I've killed this player many times , it isnt as if he's in god mode.

I got my Bow up to 16.8K. Getting closer.

Alchimiste1 · July 29

bladenick wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

There cheating always exist, due to the burst dmg of NB， it easy to cover the cheating activity. Believe me, it absolutely cheating if a solo NB hit you 2.1k spectral now

I assure you it's possible to hit those numbers solo buffed and without cheats. Last one was actually against the emp of a previous campaign.

Durham · July 29

Keep in mind those extreme damage results you see comes with extreme healing also!

bladenick · July 29

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

bladenick wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

I switched to order's wrath+ Balorgh+ rallying cry, got my crit damage to 2.23X, but still my best Bow is only 14.6k.

I guess you just have to get lucky and find someone with low resists and get your strike from shadows/rallying cry on and then a 500 ulti Incap with a Crit Bow to all hit at once

There cheating always exist, due to the burst dmg of NB， it easy to cover the cheating activity. Believe me, it absolutely cheating if a solo NB hit you 2.1k spectral now

I assure you it's possible to hit those numbers solo buffed and without cheats. Last one was actually against the emp of a previous campaign.

Show you build, or just back to your house and hit the dummy with your 23k spectral bow build, then let do the damage calculation/analysis.

But you could deny and still keep it secret