New PvP balance idea

Afterip · June 18

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

So hyperbole to change the subject from the point of Dizzy being outclassed when looking beyond just the direct numbers in a single GCD? Got it

Dizzy = damage+Off Balance or snare.
Crushing = 27% less dmg + probably you could add statuss effect and/or you could stunn enemy if he cast spell.

And dizzy boy will add status effects too by using Elemental Susceptibility from back frost bar.

P.s. If you think I'm playing sorc, you're mistaken. My main and only one pvp character is magcro. And yes, I played stamcro using dizzy swing.

TechMaybeHic · June 18

Afterip wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

So hyperbole to change the subject from the point of Dizzy being outclassed when looking beyond just the direct numbers in a single GCD? Got it

Dizzy = damage+Off Balance or snare.
Crushing = 27% less dmg + probably you could add statuss effect and/or you could stunn enemy if he cast spell.

And dizzy boy will add status effects too by using Elemental Susceptibility from back frost bar.

P.s. If you think I'm playing sorc, you're mistaken. My main and only one pvp character is magcro. And yes, I played stamcro using dizzy swing.

When did you last play stamcro and what spammable are you using now if dizzy is so great? Why stop?

Afterip · June 18

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I'm playing eso, but it looks like you're playing some kind of shooter with guns and knifes. [snip]
My full message was: IF melee skills so weak, why most of strong pvp players running with 2h/duals front bar and frost staff back bar?

As i see many pvp wardens and nb prefer 2h. yesterday i meet with 2h plar and after long fight he killed me.

And special for you:

20k max stat, 5k max power

Bloodthirst 4 = (0.0297 MaxStat + 0.31184 MaxPower)x4 = 8 612, 8

Crushing Shock 4 = (0.03099 MaxStat + 0.325395 MaxPower)x3 = 6 740, 325

And again melee skill 27% more stronger than range.

idk skill coefficients of new scribing skills but i think it will be same.

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Becouse have only 1 50lvl character and I opened and lvluped all skills and there upgrades(exept scribing). so for swap build i need just change some skill upgrades and swap magica to stamina or keep hp. Right now im trying to play as magcro in pvp. And what can i say, when i used 2h or duals, i have better chance to kill enemy then now when i use destro stuff. So in my opinion melee is not so bad plays as some players said.

[edited for trolling]

Major_Toughness · June 18

At least use two abilities with cast times so they are comparable. All cast time abilities have slightly higher scaling than non-cast time abilities.

Are you are being disingenuous on purpose to try prove your point?
You had already looking up the coefficients so could see the difference.

Same stats:
Lethal Arrow: 7751.35
Dizzying Swing: 8612.62

Dizzy Swing is 11.11% higher tooltip.

As others have mentioned that also comes with Off-balance which is access to a off-GCD stun and extra damage via CP or Armour sets should you choose. Yes Lethal Arrow has it's own bonuses with doing disease damage and sets that buff disease damage.

I can't find a coefficient for the guaranteed disease damage however that would make Lethal Arrow even closer to Dizzy Swing.

Then take into account melee vs ranged and suddenly you can see why ranged damage is so obnoxiously strong.

Afterip · June 18

Major_Toughness wrote: »

I didnt pick lethal arrow becous its specific class weapon such as sword and board arc weapon now. for this month i didnt see any bowmen exept nb and bash users exept arcanists. obviousle sneaky nb with lethal arrow and equiped proc sets could easy kill his target from safe place. but its not mean that ALL ranged skills are so deadly and deserve to be nerfed, mb magsorc's overload has same threat.

in fight between range and melee, range has 1-2 sec advantage before melee will gasp close to him. After that range cant escape from melee to safe place and nuke him (except sorcs), even nb can be catched when they try to escape. So fight between melee and range will be in small zone where both can punch each other. and at this point melee will feel all his advantages of his stronger abilities.

Major_Toughness · June 18

Afterip wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

I didnt pick lethal arrow becous its specific class weapon such as sword and board arc weapon now. for this month i didnt see any bowmen exept nb and bash users exept arcanists. obviousle sneaky nb with lethal arrow and equiped proc sets could easy kill his target from safe place. but its not mean that ALL ranged skills are so deadly and deserve to be nerfed, mb magsorc's overload has same threat.

in fight between range and melee, range has 1-2 sec advantage before melee will gasp close to him. After that range cant escape from melee to safe place and nuke him (except sorcs), even nb can be catched when they try to escape. So fight between melee and range will be in small zone where both can punch each other. and at this point melee will feel all his advantages of his stronger abilities.

Surprise Attack is 11% stronger than Swallow Soul.
Concealed is 22% stronger but that got a 10% buff in U41 and is the strongest spammable in the game. Even that is less of a power difference than your original claim.
Swallow Soul isn't weak either in terms of damage, it's the same as Crushing Shock, a global spammable used by Magsorcs, Magdens, Magcros, even Magplars.
At least if they're not using new Wield Soul yet.

All a ranged player has to do is get 8 meters away. Then melee does no damage at all. Even if they close the gap within 1 second, they still did no damage for that second and you did all of yours.

Even if the the big bad supercharged melee played gets their spammable off half the number of times as ranged, the ranged build is going to do almost twice as much damage.

Afterip · June 18

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Concealed is 22% stronger but that got a 10% buff in U41 and is the strongest spammable in the game. Even that is less of a power difference than your original claim.

Concealed Weapon = 0.11363 x 20000+ 1.19311x5000 = 8238.15
but with 10% buff its deal 8238.15x1.1= 9061.965 A bit stronger than dswing or bloodthirst.

Oh, I'm so tired, so let's do this. I agree with all the guys on this topic that melee suck and range OP. So ZOS should buff all melee skills like add 30% dmg or ncreased range to 10m or even 15m and make them instant.

Now I'm going to leave defeated.

Major_Toughness · June 19

Afterip wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

Concealed is 22% stronger but that got a 10% buff in U41 and is the strongest spammable in the game. Even that is less of a power difference than your original claim.

Concealed Weapon = 0.11363 x 20000+ 1.19311x5000 = 8238.15
but with 10% buff its deal 8238.15x1.1= 9061.965 A bit stronger than dswing or bloodthirst.

Oh, I'm so tired, so let's do this. I agree with all the guys on this topic that melee suck and range OP. So ZOS should buff all melee skills like add 30% dmg or ncreased range to 10m or even 15m and make them instant.

Now I'm going to leave defeated.

The values you used for Concealed Weapon are values for it in its buffed state.

Now it does also have a unique 10% buff which would take it to your value.

However that skill is an outlier and too strong. Should also not be used to say melee is OP when it's the only melee spammable that does that amount of damage.

Durham · June 19

Afterip wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

...

https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkillCoef.php

IF we have 5k max power and 20k max stat, then:

Dizzying Swing 4 = 0.118795 MaxStat + 1.24735 MaxPower= 8 612, 65

Crushing Shock 4 = (0.03099 MaxStat + 0.325395 MaxPower)x3= 6 740, 325

As you see dizzing ~27,7% stronger than crushing.

LOL Dizzy is on a timer! Its misses and wiffs, it also in on 7 meters !!!!! 7 meters!!! So you think something that allows you hit from 28 meters and instant damage should hit the same? You can spam crushing 3 times to 2 dizzy's and 1 will probably miss on dizzy.

Durham · June 19

Afterip wrote: »

IF melee skills so weak, why most of strong pvp players running with 2h/duals front bar and frost staff back bar?

For the weapon damage dude not using the actual abilities maybe the duel wield, two-hander executes.

All DKs Hybrids and use whips
I would say 80% Sorcs are magicka or Hybrid most do not use Dizzy there are a few but its a much harder play style.
I would say 70% Wardens are magicka you see a few Dizzy stam wardens on at night.
I would say 90% of Templars are Magicka

xylena_lazarow · June 19

Dunno what to tell the "2h is meta" guy because 2h is terrible. Those Dizzy Wardens are doing it out of nostalgia.

Major_Toughness · June 19

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Dunno what to tell the "2h is meta" guy because 2h is terrible. Those Dizzy Wardens are doing it out of nostalgia.

Magicka Warden on top.

They play melee but Blood For Blood/Arterial Burst.

master_vanargand · June 20

With Battle Spirit's range exceeding 28m, Melee builds are suicidal in Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil and IC.
Most PvP melee builds are only effective indoors, in towers, tree and rock, or in Duel.

Durham · June 20

master_vanargand wrote: »

With Battle Spirit's range exceeding 28m, Melee builds are suicidal in Battlegrounds and Cyrodiil and IC.
Most PvP melee builds are only effective indoors, in towers, tree and rock, or in Duel.

Exactly there has been a power creep in ranged damage. Which Im surprised ZoS has allowed such a huge imbalance on something that affects all aspects of the game including role play. This goes beyond classes but some classes excel at range more than others which leads us right back to the Sorc lol.

xylena_lazarow · June 20

Durham wrote: »

Which Im surprised ZoS has allowed such a huge imbalance on something that affects all aspects of the game including role play. This goes beyond classes but some classes excel at range more than others which leads us right back to the Sorc lol.

I'm surprised too after they made such a big deal over restricting Savage Werewolf to melee range, as well as the idiotic MDW nerf. The current crop of ranged burst procs like Tarnished are more braindead set-and-forget than ever. I'd love to see proc damage restricted to melee range across the board. No "free" damage unless you take the risk.

Sporigudinai · June 20

Yes, i think it´s clear that Ranged builds are more OP right now. You need to spend lots of resources to avoid get killed before you can catch a ranged player while you are melee. Or you need to have a really good resist. More then before.
I´m a casual PvP player and i always played with melee builds, and it´s geting hard for me.

About Necro, i tried a stancro with scribing giving me stun and brut/sorc in the same skill, and it felt nice to play like that. With 2H.

Casul · June 20

How to fix

Damage skills scales off WD/SD
Healing skills scales off Stamina/Magicka
Health based skill heals cap out at 30K HP

My 2c