So, who's "Detecting" me when I'm 100 yards away from where I was last spotted and behind a boulder?

bg22 · May 2014

Just curious... But I'm wondering who thought it was a great game mechanic to have players be "Detected" when nobody is in-fact looking at them, or anywhere near them?

Half the time, I enjoy hanging out on the edge of enemy zergs, killing a straggler then making a quick exit... But, 90% of those times I remain "detected" when I've killed them w/o being seen, "Shadowy Disguised" 3-4 times, covered 100 meters or better, hid behind a mountain or the like, and I'm still "Detected" or "Cannot mount while in combat".

Simply, why?

I won't go into the gripe I have about not being able to do a little mounted combat, but why can't I mount my horse while "In combat". Even if I haven't been "In combat" for 20-30 seconds and the enemy is long dead and gone.

Is it a lore thing? Were the men in The Elder Scrolls the worst horseback riders of all time? And were they incapable of "hiding" behind a rock?

LadyChaos · May 2014

There's been weird times I've seen someone crouching in a rock crevice from waaaay far away and I've run up on them and of course killed them... I thought it was because someone was nearby with a maglight and since I also have it is communally visible?

I can't even stealth TBH heals/revive/bolt combat locks, so I don't get it a lot form the other side. But every now and then I see someone from way far away.

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

Did you turn off your cell phone?

LadyChaos · May 2014

I reread... If you engaged in combat or healed someone who then engaged in combat... and they didn't revive right away you are unable to stealth until they do. It's a known drama.

Is this why I'm seeing huddled reds so far away lol? Yeah you're not hidden =p

Cydone · May 2014

LadyChaos wrote: »

I reread... If you engaged in combat or healed someone who then engaged in combat... and they didn't revive right away you are unable to stealth until they do. It's a known major bug in the stealth mechanics.

Is this why I'm seeing huddled reds so far away lol? Yeah you're not hidden =p

Fixed

LadyChaos · May 2014

Cydone wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

I reread... If you engaged in combat or healed someone who then engaged in combat... and they didn't revive right away you are unable to stealth until they do. It's a known major bug in the stealth mechanics.

Is this why I'm seeing huddled reds so far away lol? Yeah you're not hidden =p

Fixed

I do agree with your point...

yes stars aligning and rivers overflow with blood...

but I don't like my quotes changed as it changes for all future quotes my comments... but I suppose if I agree with you too much the world will explode and this is balance.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

I'm about 90% sure its because you killed someone, and said someone is being a jerk and not respawning, locking you in combat and preventing you from sneaking. As a player who likes to solo behind enemy lines, this bug gets me killed more than anything else...

Cydone · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

I'm about 90% sure its because you killed someone, and said someone is being a jerk and not respawning, locking you in combat and preventing you from sneaking. As a player who likes to solo behind enemy lines, this bug gets me killed more than anything else...

If it's really a case of someone not respawning, then ZOS needs to look at this as it seems to be a pretty big bug in the stealth mechanics. Once you kill a player, as long as you didn't damage another player or TAKE any damage from another player, their death should then immediately break the "in combat" state. It shouldn't be tied to their having to respawn.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

Keep NPCs can see you even if you are hiding well. Untill you break aggro you will be detected.

awkwarrd · May 2014

bg22 wrote: »

Simply, why?

Mostly bugs and server side issues.

Players who are dead, can adversely affect your sneaking.
Guard NPC's can adversely affect your sneaking mechanic.
Combat Lock can adversely affect your sneaking mechanic. (along with multiple other issues)

LadyChaos wrote: »

but I don't like my quotes changed as it changes for all future quotes my comments...

Pfft whatevs.
That high horse is cutting off your oxygen.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO · May 2014

We have been /bugging this since Beta and ZOS refuses to address this issue. The stealth system has real potential to work, but under these conditions it's silly to not be able to play a stealthy hit and run build with my Nightblade and then be "detected" endlessly when there is literally no one around.

I have experienced this very issue in which I take out a straggler in the back of a group or zerg, then use my stealth cloak ability, get behind cover crouched, and wouldn't you know it, I am still "detected" =(

Makes no sense! I truly wish ZOS would at least address this as as known issue or give us some real feedback on how their stealth system is intended to work.

With all the passives and wearing nearly or full med armor, the guards should not be able to see through you at a distance. It also seems as though once your detected by any NPC at a keep, you have to move literally 100+ meters away before you have any chance of getting back into "hidden" status again, even after using our cloak stealth skills multiple times and getting out of any possible LOS.

Cydone · May 2014

e.gamemarkb14_ESO wrote: »

We have been /bugging this since Beta and ZOS refuses to address this issue. The stealth system has real potential to work, but under these conditions it's silly to not be able to play a stealthy hit and run build with my Nightblade and then be "detected" endlessly when there is literally no one around.

I have experienced this very issue in which I take out a straggler in the back of a group or zerg, then use my stealth cloak ability, get behind cover crouched, and wouldn't you know it, I am still "detected" =(

Makes no sense! I truly wish ZOS would at least address this as as known issue or give us some real feedback on how their stealth system is intended to work.

With all the passives and wearing nearly or full med armor, the guards should not be able to see through you at a distance. It also seems as though once your detected by any NPC at a keep, you have to move literally 100+ meters away before you have any chance of getting back into "hidden" status again, even after using our cloak stealth skills multiple times and getting out of any possible LOS.

This is EXTREMELY annoying considering that, at VR5, this still happens. And the NPC's that are doing it are lvl50.

lao · May 2014

bg22 wrote: »

Just curious... But I'm wondering who thought it was a great game mechanic to have players be "Detected" when nobody is in-fact looking at them, or anywhere near them?

Half the time, I enjoy hanging out on the edge of enemy zergs, killing a straggler then making a quick exit... But, 90% of those times I remain "detected" when I've killed them w/o being seen, "Shadowy Disguised" 3-4 times, covered 100 meters or better, hid behind a mountain or the like, and I'm still "Detected" or "Cannot mount while in combat".

Simply, why?

I won't go into the gripe I have about not being able to do a little mounted combat, but why can't I mount my horse while "In combat". Even if I haven't been "In combat" for 20-30 seconds and the enemy is long dead and gone.

Is it a lore thing? Were the men in The Elder Scrolls the worst horseback riders of all time? And were they incapable of "hiding" behind a rock?

well lets see...

you stabbed a guy - he died - you tried to hide

but u forgot one thing. murder is a sin. god sees everything - ergo u cant hide from god.

makes perfect sense.

PS: useless broken stealth system is useless :<

Cydone · May 2014

lao wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Just curious... But I'm wondering who thought it was a great game mechanic to have players be "Detected" when nobody is in-fact looking at them, or anywhere near them?

Half the time, I enjoy hanging out on the edge of enemy zergs, killing a straggler then making a quick exit... But, 90% of those times I remain "detected" when I've killed them w/o being seen, "Shadowy Disguised" 3-4 times, covered 100 meters or better, hid behind a mountain or the like, and I'm still "Detected" or "Cannot mount while in combat".

Simply, why?

I won't go into the gripe I have about not being able to do a little mounted combat, but why can't I mount my horse while "In combat". Even if I haven't been "In combat" for 20-30 seconds and the enemy is long dead and gone.

Is it a lore thing? Were the men in The Elder Scrolls the worst horseback riders of all time? And were they incapable of "hiding" behind a rock?

well lets see...

you stabbed a guy - he died - you tried to hide

but u forgot one thing. murder is a sin. god sees everything - ergo u cant hide from god.

makes perfect sense.

PS: useless broken stealth system is useless :<

LadyChaos · May 2014

awkwarrd wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

but I don't like my quotes changed as it changes for all future quotes my comments...

Pfft whatevs.
That high horse is cutting off your oxygen.

Not caring to be misquoted, just for spits and giggles of someone's joke, when I was agreeing with their point, not making fun of THEM? He changed my quote which made it sound like he was fixing me defending he bugged issue, when I was answering the OP as to why it happened, not that it was right, but why. Didn't make fun of him just said I didn't like it, even made a light hearted joke about it, because i agreed with his point. IMO a very A,B > C conversation...

Suppose makes me a snob when I don't like people keying my car, or crapping on my lawn too. First world problems huh... I must be a monster. But yeah fix the stealth bug it's making us all nuts.

Cydone · May 2014

LadyChaos wrote: »

awkwarrd wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

but I don't like my quotes changed as it changes for all future quotes my comments...

Pfft whatevs.
That high horse is cutting off your oxygen.

Not caring to be misquoted, just for spits and giggles of someone's joke, when I was agreeing with their point, not making fun of THEM? He changed my quote which made it sound like he was fixing me defending he bugged issue, when I was answering the OP as to why it happened, not that it was right, but why. Didn't make fun of him just said I didn't like it, even made a light hearted joke about it, because i agreed with his point. IMO a very A,B > C conversation...

Suppose makes me a snob when I don't like people keying my car, or crapping on my lawn too. First world problems huh... I must be a monster. But yeah fix the stealth bug it's making us all nuts.

But crapping on your lawn would fertilize it, thus making for a lusher green lawn, in the long "run". hehe

LadyChaos · May 2014

Cydone wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

awkwarrd wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

but I don't like my quotes changed as it changes for all future quotes my comments...

Pfft whatevs.
That high horse is cutting off your oxygen.

Not caring to be misquoted, just for spits and giggles of someone's joke, when I was agreeing with their point, not making fun of THEM? He changed my quote which made it sound like he was fixing me defending he bugged issue, when I was answering the OP as to why it happened, not that it was right, but why. Didn't make fun of him just said I didn't like it, even made a light hearted joke about it, because i agreed with his point. IMO a very A,B > C conversation...

Suppose makes me a snob when I don't like people keying my car, or crapping on my lawn too. First world problems huh... I must be a monster. But yeah fix the stealth bug it's making us all nuts.

But crapping on your lawn would fertilize it, thus making for a lusher green lawn, in the long "run". hehe

I never pegged u as a glass half full kinda dude... my mistake. /nod

joshisanonymous · May 2014

I actually have a semi-related question that I can't find the answer to, nor can I test myself: When detected while sneaking, does that mean everyone can see you? For instance, if I'm sneaking/hidden as I come up to a resource and then that mage from hell suddenly "detects" me from 200m away, am I then visible to any enemy that comes along from any distance, or just to that mage? This is pretty clear in other MMOs where you have the sort of phantom look, as with Stealthy Disguise, but it's not when your only indication of being hidden is a symbol on the screen. If everyone can see you, that would mean that this issue of not being able to become hidden again is an even bigger deal.

Feels like a dumb question but I don't have two non-Ebonheart friends that I could test this out with.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

If you are detected while sneaking, then you might as well stop sneaking as you are just wasting stamina. It basically means you are crouched, but can't enter stealth. In situations like this, your best options are to try and run away, or to hide behind line of sight.

Cydone · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

If you are detected while sneaking, then you might as well stop sneaking as you are just wasting stamina. It basically means you are crouched, but can't enter stealth. In situations like this, your best options are to try and run away, or to hide behind line of sight.

Thanks Captain Obvious, master of WOW!

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

If you are detected while sneaking, then you might as well stop sneaking as you are just wasting stamina. It basically means you are crouched, but can't enter stealth. In situations like this, your best options are to try and run away, or to hide behind line of sight.

Thanks Captain Obvious, master of WOW!

Go troll someone else. A question was asked about stealth mechanics, so I just explained anything that might seem important. Why do you have a problem with that?

Cydone · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

If you are detected while sneaking, then you might as well stop sneaking as you are just wasting stamina. It basically means you are crouched, but can't enter stealth. In situations like this, your best options are to try and run away, or to hide behind line of sight.

Thanks Captain Obvious, master of WOW!

Go troll someone else. A question was asked about stealth mechanics, so I just explained anything that might seem important. Why do you have a problem with that?

Because, like what I said, it's the most obvious thing. Something that has been said already in this thread. Perhaps reading, prior to posting, would have done you some good in this regard.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

If you are detected while sneaking, then you might as well stop sneaking as you are just wasting stamina. It basically means you are crouched, but can't enter stealth. In situations like this, your best options are to try and run away, or to hide behind line of sight.

Thanks Captain Obvious, master of WOW!

Go troll someone else. A question was asked about stealth mechanics, so I just explained anything that might seem important. Why do you have a problem with that?

Because, like what I said, it's the most obvious thing. Something that has been said already in this thread. Perhaps reading, prior to posting, would have done you some good in this regard.

Why don't you read instead? Hint, its the post above mine that you seem to have so many issues with. But hey, I agree with you, the nerve of me, answering questions! Regardless, you have gone out of your way to be an ass, so I'm done with you at this point.

Cydone · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

If you are detected while sneaking, then you might as well stop sneaking as you are just wasting stamina. It basically means you are crouched, but can't enter stealth. In situations like this, your best options are to try and run away, or to hide behind line of sight.

Thanks Captain Obvious, master of WOW!

Go troll someone else. A question was asked about stealth mechanics, so I just explained anything that might seem important. Why do you have a problem with that?

Because, like what I said, it's the most obvious thing. Something that has been said already in this thread. Perhaps reading, prior to posting, would have done you some good in this regard.

Why don't you read instead? Hint, its the post above mine that you seem to have so many issues with. But hey, I agree with you, the nerve of me, answering questions!

Wow, guess that hooked on phonics didn't work for you.

I NEVER said that I didn't know about how the stealth mechanics work as far as combat "decloaking" you or the fact that if you are detected, crouching is useless. I said and I quote "If it's really a case of someone not respawning, then ZOS needs to look at this as it seems to be a pretty big bug in the stealth mechanics. Once you kill a player, as long as you didn't damage another player or TAKE any damage from another player, their death should then immediately break the "in combat" state. It shouldn't be tied to their having to respawn. "

Please tell me, where in that quote, did I say I didn't understand this fundamental aspect of the stealth system in place.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

If you are detected while sneaking, then you might as well stop sneaking as you are just wasting stamina. It basically means you are crouched, but can't enter stealth. In situations like this, your best options are to try and run away, or to hide behind line of sight.

Thanks Captain Obvious, master of WOW!

Go troll someone else. A question was asked about stealth mechanics, so I just explained anything that might seem important. Why do you have a problem with that?

Because, like what I said, it's the most obvious thing. Something that has been said already in this thread. Perhaps reading, prior to posting, would have done you some good in this regard.

Why don't you read instead? Hint, its the post above mine that you seem to have so many issues with. But hey, I agree with you, the nerve of me, answering questions!

Please tell me, where in that quote, did I say I didn't understand this fundamental aspect of the stealth system in place.

I was going to ignore you, but now I just think there has been some confusion. When I was talking about stealth mechanics, I was responding to the following questions:

joshisanonymous wrote: »

I actually have a semi-related question that I can't find the answer to, nor can I test myself: When detected while sneaking, does that mean everyone can see you? For instance, if I'm sneaking/hidden as I come up to a resource and then that mage from hell suddenly "detects" me from 200m away, am I then visible to any enemy that comes along from any distance, or just to that mage? This is pretty clear in other MMOs where you have the sort of phantom look, as with Stealthy Disguise, but it's not when your only indication of being hidden is a symbol on the screen. If everyone can see you, that would mean that this issue of not being able to become hidden again is an even bigger deal.

Feels like a dumb question but I don't have two non-Ebonheart friends that I could test this out with.

Someone asked an honest question, and I answered it as best I could. That's it, there was no other intention behind my post... Please, can we move on from this now?

Glurin · May 2014

I mostly notice the "detected when I should be hidden" thing when I'm spotted by NPCs, like the ones guarding a farm or something. Have to run almost half way to the next keep before I can hide again. Like they're superman's cousins or something and inherited his telescopic x-ray vision.

Guard NPCs being able to spot you in stealth easier than regular NPCs could, I get that. Having to run twenty miles before they lose sight of you even if they never moved seems a tad much IMO.

Censorious · May 2014

I don't know whether to agree or call L2P.

It's pretty obvious that you're not stealthed despite the crouch posture - it clearly says 'detected' and you should take that to mean every enemy can see you perfectly well. You need to get out of LoS.
The idea seems to be to have a safe-zone around keeps where stealthing is almost impossible. That's probably a reasonable mechanic to include.

On the other hand, it goes on way too long after a guard has detected you and the keep guard detection radius feels far too big.

bg22 · May 2014

Cydone wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

I'm about 90% sure its because you killed someone, and said someone is being a jerk and not respawning, locking you in combat and preventing you from sneaking. As a player who likes to solo behind enemy lines, this bug gets me killed more than anything else...

If it's really a case of someone not respawning, then ZOS needs to look at this as it seems to be a pretty big bug in the stealth mechanics. Once you kill a player, as long as you didn't damage another player or TAKE any damage from another player, their death should then immediately break the "in combat" state. It shouldn't be tied to their having to respawn.

I know the reason is the person that "tab-targeted" you is still alive, or hasn't red pawned. But if they cannot see you, or they're dead, you should instantly be able to stealth again.

That's the point of my thread.

bg22 · May 2014

Censorious wrote: »

I don't know whether to agree or call L2P.

It's pretty obvious that you're not stealthed despite the crouch posture - it clearly says 'detected' and you should take that to mean every enemy can see you perfectly well. You need to get out of LoS.
The idea seems to be to have a safe-zone around keeps where stealthing is almost impossible. That's probably a reasonable mechanic to include.

On the other hand, it goes on way too long after a guard has detected you and the keep guard detection radius feels far too big.

It has nothing to do with LoS. That's what's broken about it. If they've "tab-targeted" you, LoS is irrelevant.

Do not mention L2P in my threads, bc odds are, such as in this case, I KH2P more so than yourself, given that you were clueless to the "tab-target" preventing stealth, regardless of LoS.