A few suggestions to alleviate these specific problems:

• For optimal DPS, a Werewolf damage dealer would pick the Werewolf Berserker morph for the damage over time on light attack. Since Pack Leader is already tanky and designed as a support (+10% unique mitigation, passive Minor Courage to grouped allies, +3 to the Call of the Pack passive for grouped Werewolves) then the taunt on heavy attack should be tied to the Pack Leader morph, rather than to Deafening Roar. This would eliminate the possibility of a Werewolf damage dealer being able to taunt, but they should still be able to pick the tankier morph of Roar if they need it.
• The damage boost of Terrified does not outweigh the DPS gain of omitting it from the rotation. I'd suggest buffing the bonus damage of Terrified if it's absolutely necessary to have Werewolf damage dealers fearing enemies every 10 seconds.
• The duration of Terrified is short. It would increase overall DPS if Terrified had a duration of 20 seconds, so more time can be spent casting Howl of Agony.
• Terrified is not sourced from anywhere outside of the Werewolf skill line, so a Werewolf who wants the bonus damage would either need to cast Roar themselves or have allied Werewolves cast Roar. Given how few players will play Werewolf, an alternative way to boost the DPS is to introduce more ways of inflicting Terrified, outside of the Werewolf skill line. Alternatively, make Terrified useful for non-Werewolf allies, so that groups will want a Werewolf in their group composition.
• Because Terrified is a negative effect, it can be purged. Instead of this, rework Terrified to be a group buff, rather than an enemy debuff, as this will serve a similar purpose. Alternatively, add a tracking effect to Terrified so that it has some utility outside of being a purgeable damage buff.
• If Werewolves need to use all of their skills, then give them a Grimoire they can swap troublesome skills like Roar out for. Such Werewolf Grimoire could undoubtedly be made to be more useful for a Werewolf damage dealer than Roar currently is.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler

It really bothers me that my beloved playstyle as a werewolf is getting gutted so badly next patch. I don’t want to play the light attack weaving pve werewolf in PvP, and I don’t want to be forced into having to use Blooddrinker and Oakensoul to still be below par with other classes. How else are we going to make up for damage loss? What other way is there to play werewolf without just being an annoying tank that can’t kill anything?

These changes don’t accomplish anything in PVE or PVP. This is change for the sake of change. Why are we wasting time on these kinds of changes to werewolf? We all hate the changes. No werewolf likes these changes.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Great update ZOS. I do understand that the wording on PTS & all the "dog jokes" were there for fun, but um... how to put it...
I just have the feeling that many Werewolf players now feel like you were making fun of them, ZOS.

Oh 100% it feels like that. It feels like that every patch we get adjusted without a word why, like when they took away the direwolf snare for no apparent reason other than... I dunno.

So basically this patch boils down to we got more of the now-nerfed hemorrhaging and a 25% reduction in damage in exchange for a debuff that actually does nothing.

Bravo. Task failed successfully.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

A few suggestions to alleviate these specific problems:

• For optimal DPS, a Werewolf damage dealer would pick the Werewolf Berserker morph for the damage over time on light attack. Since Pack Leader is already tanky and designed as a support (+10% unique mitigation, passive Minor Courage to grouped allies, +3 to the Call of the Pack passive for grouped Werewolves) then the taunt on heavy attack should be tied to the Pack Leader morph, rather than to Deafening Roar. This would eliminate the possibility of a Werewolf damage dealer being able to taunt, but they should still be able to pick the tankier morph of Roar if they need it.
• The damage boost of Terrified does not outweigh the DPS gain of omitting it from the rotation. I'd suggest buffing the bonus damage of Terrified if it's absolutely necessary to have Werewolf damage dealers fearing enemies every 10 seconds.
• The duration of Terrified is short. It would increase overall DPS if Terrified had a duration of 20 seconds, so more time can be spent casting Howl of Agony.
• Terrified is not sourced from anywhere outside of the Werewolf skill line, so a Werewolf who wants the bonus damage would either need to cast Roar themselves or have allied Werewolves cast Roar. Given how few players will play Werewolf, an alternative way to boost the DPS is to introduce more ways of inflicting Terrified, outside of the Werewolf skill line. Alternatively, make Terrified useful for non-Werewolf allies, so that groups will want a Werewolf in their group composition.
• Because Terrified is a negative effect, it can be purged. Instead of this, rework Terrified to be a group buff, rather than an enemy debuff, as this will serve a similar purpose. Alternatively, add a tracking effect to Terrified so that it has some utility outside of being a purgeable damage buff.
• If Werewolves need to use all of their skills, then give them a Grimoire they can swap troublesome skills like Roar out for. Such Werewolf Grimoire could undoubtedly be made to be more useful for a Werewolf damage dealer than Roar currently is.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler

The most sensible argument. Anything else seems honestly unnecessarily convoluted by comparison.

C_Inside wrote: »

Awesome! Another member of our "weak class that gets nerfed for no reason because the dev team doesn't play said class and has no idea what they're doing" club (it's a working title). You can take a seat right over there right between Necro and Templar. No not that one, that belongs to pve Nightblades.

Just like templar jabs and necro stalking blastbones these mind boggling changes will make it to live no matter how much feedback you give them. It's set in stone as soon as week 1 rolls around.

It's really sad too, I don't know if it's malicious or just complete incompetence at this point. You have very dedicated werewolf players like Erickson going on pts and testing these changes, while providing solid data and evidence that proves these changes do the opposite of the intended goals stated in the patch notes.

These changes are proof that ZoS play PvP.

someone kept getting killed by werewolves and decided to do something about it.

as well a given rationale around decision making of changes would likely go very far for establishing positive rapport with the community of players at large to gain insight behind what may appear as random changes....granted other things do come down the pipeline which understandably may not be ready to be revealed yet, but even a basic hang in there, etc or you'll see why in time could also be beneficial

Skullstachio wrote: »

There is a semi easy solution to this problem and other class related problems: Vote With Your Wallet.

Why?: who has been paying attention to the helldivers 2 drama and how players won a massive battle against sony. (With the proverbial alliance war yet to conclude in the long run.

Case and point: the only way to get through to ZoS/Bethesda (I honestly think that ZoS barely get to hear out all proper player feedback relayed through their intermediaries without some goldmaking scheme being involved.), is to show them how passionate you are, as gamers, about the elder scrolls online.
Review accordingly, stop paying for a game that has been shafted time and time again by bad design choices, unnecessary shortcuts which have left a fairly massive chunk of the base game worse off for wear looking at you PvP/Cyrodiil), and a diluted vision from an ever changing combat team that just barely has any clue on what they are doing, prove it to them just how passionate you are about ESO.

And Kindly tell bethesda to shaft Deshaan, Eastmarch, Icereach. Nobody wants that kind of Tamrielic Politicking & pandering. (People saw how that went down with it infecting gaming, it never ends well.

Already done this personally for months now. Honestly happier for having done it.

I still want this game to improve because I did enjoy it as much as I did, and would love to have that joy back, which is the only reason I'm still active here.

I still see fearious roar as just quick heavy attack if low on stamina. Just 1 2 and back to rotation. Since a stun is used in minor scenarios in mechanics and such

sneakymitchell wrote: »

I still see fearious roar as just quick heavy attack if low on stamina. Just 1 2 and back to rotation. Since a stun is used in minor scenarios in mechanics and such

I do this as well, and fill as much stam as possible while they are set off balance... at least until there is no choice but to refresh Brutal Pounce... and the 10 second Carnage timer...

Personally I never use Ferocious Roar both skills set the enemies off balance, and even if I wanted to have the faster heavy attacks.. I don't have the luxury of going without Major Breach. (nor is it worth it by the time you get the speed bonus its already nearly gone since the first heavy takes a lifetime to land also multiple enemies cause the heavy to always be slow anyways)

On that topic every build I have has some way of applying Major Breach since the groups I run with don't often apply it, and its usually my duty to ensure we have it covered. I press roar on cooldown on live and will continue to next patch as roar has always been a number 1 priority skill for the breach alone. I will be forced to use that morph next patch as losing breach is a bigger loss then losing the crit chance I feel. Also I want the major protection, being harder to kill is more dps then being a dead werewolf waiting on a revive.

Also going to add that I will continue to be forced to wear a set like briarheart due to the healing affect and the fact that its only an okay dps set at the same time... werewolf self healing for me is not in a good place. and since the damage is horrible as well there is no choice when it comes to sets you are forced to wear the best dps sets you can get...

In comparison I run an oakensoul build on my toons in the infinite archive. my dps is high enough to skip all the mechs and not die up to the end of the second arena (when not in werewolf form) I also have survivability and can survive the mechs (again out of wolf form).... Now in werewolf form I can't kill the enemy before the mechs kick in... and in addition to that I also don't have the survivability to survive the mechs? I build towards magic regen because having a heal is more important then having the stam. If heavy attacks gave both resources that would help me a ton otherwise as its usually magic not stam that I need most.



Why is my survivability greater out of wolf form? Revealing Flare for major protection, Resolving Vigor, a massive dot heal + minor resolve + the heal scales off damage rather then max health... also stam refilling off heavy attacks to be able to use my stam heal. Werewolf doesn't have this option they have 1 expensive magic burst heal and one skill that requires an enemy to heal for a tiny value.. and the heavy attacks always give stam.

Why is damage less? normal oakensoul builds you have 6 skill choices (5 skills you can choose + weapon passives + class passives + an ultimate you can use as desired). Werewolf has 5 skills.. 3 of which do damage you have a total of 3 dots if your a berserker werewolf. 2 of your skills do no damage, you no ultimate, and you have no weapon passives also your class passives rarely are helpful.

Our werewolf passives do not help us for damage ether most of them are just to increase the duration of our werewolf form. Only the Increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 18% which likely is to counter the loss of the infused backbar berserker enchantment...

Simple fix, make terrified actually do something on its own instead of attaching an empty debuff to what's essentially a dead cast. This whole direction the devs went wasn't nessesarily the fix I would have gone with. The idea was neat but there really wasn't a lot of playtesting or focus on it. Understandable considering scribing was the focus of the patch but it still is a real bummer to have the werewolf problem acknowledged by name, only to not have any satisfying adjustments. Maybe next time.