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Sluthrug's Hunger as the new DPS Support Set
VoidCommander
✭✭✭✭✭
Medium Armor – Sluthrug’s Hunger
2 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
3 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
5 – Healing yourself or an ally makes your target Blood Hungry for 3 seconds. Dealing direct damage to an enemy makes them Bloodied for 3 seconds. Bloodied enemies take 4% more damage from and deal 4% less damage to Blood Hungry targets.
I know, I know. This set looks like it was meant to be worn on a healer. But with all the support sets that healers already need to wear, it got me thinking on the ability of a DPS to take on this set. We already see examples of DPS support sets being ran on select classes to boost the damage taken from a boss with thinks like Elemental Catalyst Necromancer (7.5% average damage increase), Martial Knowledge Sorcerers (roughly 5% over time), and the staple Zen's Dragonknight (5% increased damage).
With those percentage increases from each specific class, I think there is a viable way to employ this set for organized group play without drastically affecting the performance of the DPS using it. I would like to ask the community for their ideas on how to address some of the problems that arise.
Obviously, the set itself have a line of Stamina Recovery, so it will be a bit weaker compared to a dedicated damage set. Additionally, with the line of Penetration, classes such as Necromancer, Nightblade, and Arcanist will be at a particular disadvantage when using this set due to the highly redundant penetration (I am assuming an organized group will defer about 1 light armor piece worth of pen to the DPS to fill themselves).
Another problem that I've heard about but have not yet tested personally is that the set only procs when healing an Ally, NOT overhealing. Depending on the boss, this could be incredibly limiting as some bosses simply don't damage the group consistently. I would appreciate feedback on if this restriction would make entertaining this idea dead on arrival (healers in the community chime in?).
The next problem that I would like to avoid is the requirement to use a "dead cast" (casting an ability that deals no damage) to proc the set from a healing ability. Ideally this would be in the form of an ability that deals considerable damage, while also healing in an AOE for the group (does not have to be a big heal, just needs to hit a lot of people). Thus far in my research I've found two potential options:
Purifying Light: This ability has an initial 6 second delay before the healing pool spawns beneath the enemy, but will remain for 10 seconds afterword, allowing for very high uptime if its AOE can reach the group. For bosses like The Mage in Aetherial Archive, this is an obvious must have choice, but I'm unsure on its efficacy across other trials. Things that require spacing like many of the newer Hardmode Bosses will likely not benefit from this particular setup.
Green Lotus: This allows a Warden to heal two allies with every light attack (specifically prioritizing Allies who have missing health, and thus procing the set) while also granting the user Major Prophecy. This isn't exactly a damage skill, but was the closest thing I've found that would fit on the Warden without being a complete dead cast. It should be noted that while this would have much greater range than Templar's Purifying Light which would greatly expand its range of viable bosses, the fact that it only heals two allies per second would make it 80% as effective in the best case scenario due to the set proc only lasting for 3 seconds (max players affected at a time is 6, and those might not all be DPS). This would take the set's overall group contribution down to something like 2-3% extra group damage, which at that point might as well just use a dedicated damage set.
Thank you for reading and I appreciate an insight you can provide. I am surprised that no one has mentioned this in the forums nor on Youtube, as even if a Templar has to have a dead cast every 25 seconds for Purifying Ritual, that is still an amazing damage increase for a group to get +4% damage done and -4% damage taken.
2 – Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
3 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
4 – Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
5 – Healing yourself or an ally makes your target Blood Hungry for 3 seconds. Dealing direct damage to an enemy makes them Bloodied for 3 seconds. Bloodied enemies take 4% more damage from and deal 4% less damage to Blood Hungry targets.
I know, I know. This set looks like it was meant to be worn on a healer. But with all the support sets that healers already need to wear, it got me thinking on the ability of a DPS to take on this set. We already see examples of DPS support sets being ran on select classes to boost the damage taken from a boss with thinks like Elemental Catalyst Necromancer (7.5% average damage increase), Martial Knowledge Sorcerers (roughly 5% over time), and the staple Zen's Dragonknight (5% increased damage).
With those percentage increases from each specific class, I think there is a viable way to employ this set for organized group play without drastically affecting the performance of the DPS using it. I would like to ask the community for their ideas on how to address some of the problems that arise.
Obviously, the set itself have a line of Stamina Recovery, so it will be a bit weaker compared to a dedicated damage set. Additionally, with the line of Penetration, classes such as Necromancer, Nightblade, and Arcanist will be at a particular disadvantage when using this set due to the highly redundant penetration (I am assuming an organized group will defer about 1 light armor piece worth of pen to the DPS to fill themselves).
Another problem that I've heard about but have not yet tested personally is that the set only procs when healing an Ally, NOT overhealing. Depending on the boss, this could be incredibly limiting as some bosses simply don't damage the group consistently. I would appreciate feedback on if this restriction would make entertaining this idea dead on arrival (healers in the community chime in?).
The next problem that I would like to avoid is the requirement to use a "dead cast" (casting an ability that deals no damage) to proc the set from a healing ability. Ideally this would be in the form of an ability that deals considerable damage, while also healing in an AOE for the group (does not have to be a big heal, just needs to hit a lot of people). Thus far in my research I've found two potential options:
Purifying Light: This ability has an initial 6 second delay before the healing pool spawns beneath the enemy, but will remain for 10 seconds afterword, allowing for very high uptime if its AOE can reach the group. For bosses like The Mage in Aetherial Archive, this is an obvious must have choice, but I'm unsure on its efficacy across other trials. Things that require spacing like many of the newer Hardmode Bosses will likely not benefit from this particular setup.
Green Lotus: This allows a Warden to heal two allies with every light attack (specifically prioritizing Allies who have missing health, and thus procing the set) while also granting the user Major Prophecy. This isn't exactly a damage skill, but was the closest thing I've found that would fit on the Warden without being a complete dead cast. It should be noted that while this would have much greater range than Templar's Purifying Light which would greatly expand its range of viable bosses, the fact that it only heals two allies per second would make it 80% as effective in the best case scenario due to the set proc only lasting for 3 seconds (max players affected at a time is 6, and those might not all be DPS). This would take the set's overall group contribution down to something like 2-3% extra group damage, which at that point might as well just use a dedicated damage set.
Thank you for reading and I appreciate an insight you can provide. I am surprised that no one has mentioned this in the forums nor on Youtube, as even if a Templar has to have a dead cast every 25 seconds for Purifying Ritual, that is still an amazing damage increase for a group to get +4% damage done and -4% damage taken.
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Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It only effects ONE ally, while those other DPS support sets apply to the enemy itself and thus can boost damage overall. I’m thinking this set might be best utilized in solo content. 🤔2 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »It only effects ONE ally, while those other DPS support sets apply to the enemy itself and thus can boost damage overall. I’m thinking this set might be best utilized in solo content. 🤔
Really? It doesn't list any cooldowns, nor limits to players affected at a time. If this only affected 1 person at a time than this would literally be the worst set in the entire game. I don't think that's right.2 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »It only effects ONE ally, while those other DPS support sets apply to the enemy itself and thus can boost damage overall. I’m thinking this set might be best utilized in solo content. 🤔
Really? It doesn't list any cooldowns, nor limits to players affected at a time. If this only affected 1 person at a time than this would literally be the worst set in the entire game. I don't think that's right.
Hmm, you may have a good point there, but if the wording is literal, it would need to be a heal ability with multiple targets, not an area heal like Echoing Vigor, right? Otherwise maybe it could be a good DPS support set as you suggest.
I wonder if anyone has tested this? 0 -
Kavreiss✭✭✭looks like it basically is an option for a stam healer who doesnt want to run weakening and crusher on their dual wield or who wants to enhance their weakening and crusher on their dual wield bar. I for one have a few stam healers that run d/w and 2h and i have often put weakening and crusher on my d/w weapons. It has a nice little effect. I could now conceivably run this set instead or compliment that setup with additional weakening and crusher from this set.
though on those sets i use weakening and crusher enchants on my d/w bar, i usually run gourmand and orders wrath and those i would still prefer over this...Edited by Kavreiss on 14 March 2024 14:190 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭WhosTheFancyOneNow wrote: »looks like it basically is an option for a stam healer who doesnt want to run weakening and crusher on their dual wield or who wants to enhance their weakening and crusher on their dual wield bar. I for one have a few stam healers that run d/w and 2h and i have often put weakening and crusher on my d/w weapons. It has a nice little effect. I could now conceivably run this set instead or compliment that setup with additional weakening and crusher from this set.
I mean any healer could run this set and use it to full effectiveness very easily. My question is how to find a way to allow healers to run other (better) support sets and move this burden onto a DPS role without drastically damaging the damage potential of the DPS. As a rule of thumb, if a support DPS can still hit 90-100k DPS on a trial dummy while using a support set, they are going to have a net benefit to the group to use it.
In regards to your stam healer point, this set wouldn't replace the benefits of a crusher and weakening enchant. All these bonuses can absolutely stack. The bonus from this set is called "Bloddied," which is distinctly different from any weaking or crusher enchantment effects.1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »VoidCommander wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »It only effects ONE ally, while those other DPS support sets apply to the enemy itself and thus can boost damage overall. I’m thinking this set might be best utilized in solo content. 🤔
Really? It doesn't list any cooldowns, nor limits to players affected at a time. If this only affected 1 person at a time than this would literally be the worst set in the entire game. I don't think that's right.
Hmm, you may have a good point there, but if the wording is literal, it would need to be a heal ability with multiple targets, not an area heal like Echoing Vigor, right? Otherwise maybe it could be a good DPS support set as you suggest. I wonder if anyone has tested this?
it shouldnt matter if you use echoing vigor or combat prayer, it just states the target has to be healed, so doesnt matter what skill is used to do the heal
echoing vigor would be the go-to choice because its 15 sec, and 2 sec heal ticks, which would refresh the blood hungry buff before it expires
the only edge case i could see this not working is if it has to actually heal dmg for it to proc, not an overheal at 100% hp (theres a few other "on heal" sets that require the target to have been healed at least 1hp, they dont work if the target is 100%)plays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If it were on overheal it wouldn’t have been dead on arrival, that’s the main thing holding it back. The duration of it is also pretty short but so is SPC. It would be interesting as a way to get another under utilized DPS class into trials if a certain class is better at procing it than others.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭If it were on overheal it wouldn’t have been dead on arrival, that’s the main thing holding it back. The duration of it is also pretty short but so is SPC. It would be interesting as a way to get another under utilized DPS class into trials if a certain class is better at procing it than others.
I agree completely. I genuinely hope in the next patch they can adjust this set to proc on overheals as well. This would make other DPS classes like Templar or Warden a viable candidate to incorporate into standard optimized Trial groups. Its like you said though, if it exclusively procs on an overheal, then this set is almost 100% dead on arrival.
Echoing Vigor is a solid AOE heal that lasts for a while and isn't class specific, but would be considered a dead cast. As a templar, I think running Purifying Ritual would be the most practical Dead Cast option since it is an ENORMOUS AOE, and lasts a whole 25 seconds so it wouldn't remove as many damage spamables in a rotation.0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »If it were on overheal it wouldn’t have been dead on arrival, that’s the main thing holding it back. The duration of it is also pretty short but so is SPC. It would be interesting as a way to get another under utilized DPS class into trials if a certain class is better at procing it than others.
I agree completely. I genuinely hope in the next patch they can adjust this set to proc on overheals as well. This would make other DPS classes like Templar or Warden a viable candidate to incorporate into standard optimized Trial groups. Its like you said though, if it exclusively procs on an overheal, then this set is almost 100% dead on arrival.
Echoing Vigor is a solid AOE heal that lasts for a while and isn't class specific, but would be considered a dead cast. As a templar, I think running Purifying Ritual would be the most practical Dead Cast option since it is an ENORMOUS AOE, and lasts a whole 25 seconds so it wouldn't remove as many damage spamables in a rotation.
echoing vigor is a solid 15 seconds, and is a sticky HoT so if you need to be more mobile it would provide more benefit
if your sitting in place and parsing then a longer one such as the templar ritual would be better
as of right now the proc only goes off "on heal" which likely excludes overheals, but i havent tested the set yet to see if it requires actually heal of the target, or if it works on heal or overheal though it usually specifies if it works on overhealplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities1 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »VoidCommander wrote: »If it were on overheal it wouldn’t have been dead on arrival, that’s the main thing holding it back. The duration of it is also pretty short but so is SPC. It would be interesting as a way to get another under utilized DPS class into trials if a certain class is better at procing it than others.
I agree completely. I genuinely hope in the next patch they can adjust this set to proc on overheals as well. This would make other DPS classes like Templar or Warden a viable candidate to incorporate into standard optimized Trial groups. Its like you said though, if it exclusively procs on an overheal, then this set is almost 100% dead on arrival.
Echoing Vigor is a solid AOE heal that lasts for a while and isn't class specific, but would be considered a dead cast. As a templar, I think running Purifying Ritual would be the most practical Dead Cast option since it is an ENORMOUS AOE, and lasts a whole 25 seconds so it wouldn't remove as many damage spamables in a rotation.
echoing vigor is a solid 15 seconds, and is a sticky HoT so if you need to be more mobile it would provide more benefit
if your sitting in place and parsing then a longer one such as the templar ritual would be better
as of right now the proc only goes off "on heal" which likely excludes overheals, but i havent tested the set yet to see if it requires actually heal of the target, or if it works on heal or overheal though it usually specifies if it works on overheal
It is only heals and not overheal, I tested all the sets to see their new effects and I had to take damage to get it to proc.PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore- CP 2000+
- Warden Healer - Arcanist Healer - Warden Brittleden - Stamarc - Sorc Tank - Necro Tank - Templar Tank - Arcanist Tank
- Trials: 9/12 HMs - 3/8 Tris
- Dungeons: 30/30 HMs - 24/24 Tris
- All Veterans completed!
View my builds!
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VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »VoidCommander wrote: »If it were on overheal it wouldn’t have been dead on arrival, that’s the main thing holding it back. The duration of it is also pretty short but so is SPC. It would be interesting as a way to get another under utilized DPS class into trials if a certain class is better at procing it than others.
I agree completely. I genuinely hope in the next patch they can adjust this set to proc on overheals as well. This would make other DPS classes like Templar or Warden a viable candidate to incorporate into standard optimized Trial groups. Its like you said though, if it exclusively procs on an overheal, then this set is almost 100% dead on arrival.
Echoing Vigor is a solid AOE heal that lasts for a while and isn't class specific, but would be considered a dead cast. As a templar, I think running Purifying Ritual would be the most practical Dead Cast option since it is an ENORMOUS AOE, and lasts a whole 25 seconds so it wouldn't remove as many damage spamables in a rotation.
echoing vigor is a solid 15 seconds, and is a sticky HoT so if you need to be more mobile it would provide more benefit
if your sitting in place and parsing then a longer one such as the templar ritual would be better
as of right now the proc only goes off "on heal" which likely excludes overheals, but i havent tested the set yet to see if it requires actually heal of the target, or if it works on heal or overheal though it usually specifies if it works on overheal
It is only heals and not overheal, I tested all the sets to see their new effects and I had to take damage to get it to proc.
I guess now we just need everyone in group to run spell symmetry every 3 seconds to keep the set proc active lol. Such a shame.0 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭slt101880b14_ESO wrote: »Nightblade healer with funnel health?
Yeah that's actually a good option as well for the mobile/ranged boss encounters similar to the warden. Might not hit all the DPS 100% of the time but should still get most of them. Maybe with spell scribing we could craft something that damages and heals.
Seeing that Templar, Warden, and now Nightblade all have viable class skills to make this set work, fills me with the hope that one day we can see them specifically desired in organized trial groups. As the set is now (requiring actual heals, not overhealing), it is completely useless. Necromancers, Dragonknights, and Sorcerers have their own special support niches that groups seek out, so why can't the rest of the classes have one?
ZoS please adjust this set to proc on overheals for the love of all that is good in this game, or at least massively increase its duration to >12 seconds.1 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »ZoS please adjust this set to proc on overheals for the love of all that is good in this game, or at least massively increase its duration to >12 seconds.
Goes for pretty much all healer sets added in the last couple of years, e.g. Stone's Accord, Phoenix Moth Theurge, etc ...Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
thepandalore✭✭✭Best I can tell, this set was intended to be used in solo or duo content and nowhere else. As it is, Sluthrug affects damage received by only one enemy from either you or one other player. In a dungeon or trial, you're just as likely put the bloodhungry effect on a tank instead of yourself or another DPS. Even if a tank would benefit from a 4% reduction in damage from the bloodied enemy, a better version of this set bonus already exists on cast in the necromancer's Agony Totem. There's little reason to burn equipment space on something that can be better accomplished with an ability.
Honestly, Bloody Hungry should proc for anyone touched by a healing ability. Completely agree that the duration is far too short, too. An adjustment could look something like this:
5 – Healing or overhealing members of your group makes them Blood Hungry for 6 seconds. Dealing direct damage to an enemy makes them Bloodied for 3 seconds. Bloodied enemies take 4% more damage from and deal 4% less damage to bloodhungry players.
Maybe ZOS could include some kind of intended use or content tag in the tooltips for sets like this. Obviously not all sets are designed with all content in mind. Even a small, inconspicuous "Consider this for: Overland/2-man/4-man/12-man/BG/IC/Cyrodiil/No-Proc PVP" at the bottom of a tooltip could help clear up some of the confusion DOA sets like this create.0 -
yadibroz✭✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »Araneae6537 wrote: »It only effects ONE ally, while those other DPS support sets apply to the enemy itself and thus can boost damage overall. I’m thinking this set might be best utilized in solo content. 🤔
Really? It doesn't list any cooldowns, nor limits to players affected at a time. If this only affected 1 person at a time than this would literally be the worst set in the entire game. I don't think that's right.
I was thinking to try it as well0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If it were on overheal it wouldn’t have been dead on arrival, that’s the main thing holding it back. The duration of it is also pretty short but so is SPC. It would be interesting as a way to get another under utilized DPS class into trials if a certain class is better at procing it than others.
Definitely, overhealing is a very cozy proc condition whereas actual healing, particularly in PvE, is typically the death knell of a set.
If it continues to require actual healing to be done then the set should be giga-buffed to something actually suitable to the proc condition. Because 4% ain't it.3 -
slt101880b14_ESO✭✭✭I've been using this set as more of "selfish" set with possible group buffs.
Vampire magblade healer.
Pop [Sated Fury] and use [Funnel Health]
You'll always be refreshing your 3 second buff while in combat as well as refreshing the debuff on the enemy. More spell damage and more % done equals more healing potential.
Side note: [Sap Essence] while an AoE, looks to also count as direct damage (if anyone can confirm), so that's a unique way to AoE the buffs/debuffs.Edited by slt101880b14_ESO on 19 April 2024 03:410 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭slt101880b14_ESO wrote: »I've been using this set as more of "selfish" set with possible group buffs.
Vampire magblade healer.
Pop [Sated Fury] and use [Funnel Health]
You'll always be refreshing your 3 second buff while in combat as well as refreshing the debuff on the enemy. More spell damage and more % done equals more healing potential.
Side note: [Sap Essence] while an AoE, looks to also count as direct damage (if anyone can confirm), so that's a unique way to AoE the buffs/debuffs.
It's Direct Damage, yes.0 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭slt101880b14_ESO wrote: »I've been using this set as more of "selfish" set with possible group buffs.
Vampire magblade healer.
Pop [Sated Fury] and use [Funnel Health]
You'll always be refreshing your 3 second buff while in combat as well as refreshing the debuff on the enemy. More spell damage and more % done equals more healing potential.
Side note: [Sap Essence] while an AoE, looks to also count as direct damage (if anyone can confirm), so that's a unique way to AoE the buffs/debuffs.
Do you have any combat metrics screenshots to give an example of what the uptimes looks like for the set in actual content?0 -
slt101880b14_ESO✭✭✭VoidCommander wrote: »slt101880b14_ESO wrote: »I've been using this set as more of "selfish" set with possible group buffs.
Vampire magblade healer.
Pop [Sated Fury] and use [Funnel Health]
You'll always be refreshing your 3 second buff while in combat as well as refreshing the debuff on the enemy. More spell damage and more % done equals more healing potential.
Side note: [Sap Essence] while an AoE, looks to also count as direct damage (if anyone can confirm), so that's a unique way to AoE the buffs/debuffs.
Do you have any combat metrics screenshots to give an example of what the uptimes looks like for the set in actual content?
Sadly, no.
I'm on Xbox; so no mods to keep track.Edited by slt101880b14_ESO on 24 April 2024 00:320