Dungeon Speed-run etiquette

sarahthes · March 28

The real issue is that a lot of these older dungeons have long, scripted delays in them. Newer dungeons do not.

The other issue is that you only have to do the quest once per character, so most people forget how long the scripted delays are. It is kind of unreasonable to expect 3 other people to sit, wait, and do nothing for 2-3 minutes per quest stage.

Zama666 · March 28

@SonOfSoma it is like life, you cannot change others, just yourself.
Find another group, do other quests.

Find a guild - run it with guildies?

Good Luck - I get your frustration.

Go fishing! Relax!

Amottica · March 28

SonOfSoma wrote: »

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

Everyone has different interests as is evident from the tales of this experience.

I have always suggested that if someone has a specific way they want to do a dungeon they need to put together the group to ensure they get like-minded players. Ask the game for a group of random players then one will get a lot of randomness.

Amottica · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

However, I would like to offer that I really wish people would not hold such a harsh attitude going in to these things towards those of us who might have our own reasons for not wanting to wait for someone.

I think someone who goes into a group activity without the time to be a team player or to accomplish the group's goals is being selfish. There is no I in team.

Wasting probably around 20 minutes of someone else's time because you joined a group activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs and decided that instead that only yours would be met is selfish in my book.

It's not my job to babysit someone who isn't communicating but if someone tells me they need the quest, I wait. I don't queue if I don't have time to do a dungeon.

I'm not saying someone doing that is generally like that or always like that. But it's a selfish action to decide the group's needs don't matter ahead of time in a group activity, which is what someone is doing when they queue for an activity they don't actually have the time to do.

@spartaxoxo

This makes a very good point.

Before I stopped tanking for the GF due to too many bad experiences with groups I had a knack for getting players kicked. One experience that came to mind was a player initiating boss fights even though it was made clear someone in the group had never done that DLC dungeon and we were explaining the fight to them. Two random people had the patience to help that one player but the fourth wanted to do their own thing. I told the group I could leave if I was the problem to which they kicked the jerk.

Ofc, we are not talking about one person in the group being a jerk but it is still one person that wanted to do something different than what the group's main goal was. There is no I in team.

I always suggest people who have a specific interest for clearing a dungeon form a group with like-minded people to help ensure they will be able to accomplish what they want.

Soarora · March 28

I don’t think ZOS can reasonably do anything about people in dungeons. That said, IMO, wait the amount of time it takes to pick up the quest (but not read all the dialogue slowly), only pull if at least a tank and dps are there (trash) or everyones there or ready to be pulled in (boss) (unless someones run off checking every urn or insisting on trying to solo some side boss, I don’t wait then), don’t queue if you’re on a time constraint. I run ahead but I stop before pulling until I deem theres enough people there.

Dragonnord · March 28

@spartaxoxo I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

Anifaas · March 28

The easy solution for this is to tank the dungeon and set the pace yourself. It’s not like it’s hard or anything.

Also expecting three people to accommodate you is the definition of entitlement.

If you don’t get the skill point the first time, the world will not end. You can, and probably will, run that dungeon more than once.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme example.

Dragonnord · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

What you do inside is up to the group. Can be questing, can be role playing, can be speed running, can be achievements, can be simple completion for daily pledge, can be to farm equipment, can be to get monster masks and style pages, and so.

Nowhere it says you have to go to a dungeon for questing, so if players use the finder assuming everyone will quest or wait while they quest they are wrong.

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

A simple completion is also a need. Everyone will need different things. It shouldn't need to be spelled out. Everyone who queues for the activity needs to run the dungeon for some reason. If you go into a group activity without any time or inclination to do what the group needs and only you need, that's selfish.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

Yes. They do skip the dialogue. Not all dialogue is skippable and the dungeon this person is complaining is literally such a dungeon. They were not reading. Most people aren't reading. There is dialogue on several dungeons that must be listened to before you can spam skip, and it is those dungeons that constitute the vast majority of the complaints.

I disregard extreme examples because they are not the norm. The vast majority of the time they are asking for 1 or 2 minutes max.

Edit

Dragonnord wrote: »

What you do inside is up to the group. Can be questing, can be role playing, can be speed running, can be achievements, can be simple completion for daily pledge, can be to farm equipment, can be to get monster masks and style pages, and so.

Nowhere it says you have to go to a dungeon for questing, so if players use the finder assuming everyone will quest or wait while they quest they are wrong.

Yes. By the group. Not a single individual who already decided for the entire group the second they joined the queue. People can't expect to always get the quest done. Likewise, a person cannot decide to treat another person with total disregard but have the person they disregarded find them to be decent. The price of selfish behavior when interacting with someone else is that the person will think of you as selfish. Many people clearly hate this behavior. So, it should not be automatically assumed the group will find it acceptable. These things should be decided as a group inside the dungeon, not by individuals in queue. If someone doesn't have time for teamwork, they shouldn't be joining a team.

Dax_Draconis · March 28

I don't understand what the issue is with allowing players to complete their quest objectives in the base game dungeons. It really doesn't take that long. Save the speed running for the DLC dungeons which are designed to be obnoxiously tedious.

I don't think players should have to form special groups just to get their skill point. The special groups should be for gear farmers and speed runners. Not first timers.

ZOS really needs to consider changing the base game dungeons to give an automatic skill point for the final boss kill. Just my opinion.

valenwood_vegan · March 28

Zama666 wrote: »

@SonOfSoma it is like life, you cannot change others, just yourself.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Random strangers act in random ways. It's unfortunate when the result turns out poorly, but it's not really within our control.

The tools exist to gain more control over one's dungeon experience if one wants to use them.

I stopped using the random finder and I've literally never had a negative dungeon experience in several years since.

Dragonnord · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

A simple completion is also a need. Everyone will need different things. It shouldn't need to be spelled out. Everyone who queues for the activity needs to run the dungeon for some reason. If you go into a group activity without any time or inclination to do what the group needs and only you need, that's selfish.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

Yes. They do skip the dialogue. Not all dialogue is skippable and the dungeon this person is complaining is literally such a dungeon. They were not reading. Most people aren't reading. There is dialogue on several dungeons that must be listened to before you can spam skip, and it is those dungeons that constitute the vast majority of the complaints.

I disregard extreme examples because they are not the norm. The vast majority of the time they are asking for 1 or 2 minutes max.

That's why I put other examples, not only completion.

I personally have had the need to get skill points for my alts and NEVER EVER couldn't catch a group that was not waiting for me, so questers need to stop using the random finder for their first time on a dungeon, for role play questing or to press Continue in slow motion.

I have been playing since Day 1, have been inside dungeons and have used the finder hundred and hundred and hundred and hundred times, and what you say it's extreme, I find it very often.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

A simple completion is also a need. Everyone will need different things. It shouldn't need to be spelled out. Everyone who queues for the activity needs to run the dungeon for some reason. If you go into a group activity without any time or inclination to do what the group needs and only you need, that's selfish.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

Yes. They do skip the dialogue. Not all dialogue is skippable and the dungeon this person is complaining is literally such a dungeon. They were not reading. Most people aren't reading. There is dialogue on several dungeons that must be listened to before you can spam skip, and it is those dungeons that constitute the vast majority of the complaints.

I disregard extreme examples because they are not the norm. The vast majority of the time they are asking for 1 or 2 minutes max.

That's why I put other examples, not only completion.

I personally have had the need to get skill points for my alts and NEVER EVER couldn't catch a group that was not waiting for me, so questers need to stop using the random finder for their first time on a dungeon, for role play questing or to press Continue in slow motion.

I have been playing since Day 1, have been inside dungeons and have used the finder hundred and hundred and hundred and hundred times, and what you say it's extreme, I find it very often.

I have been playing since day 1 as well. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen someone attempt to read the quest. Most such accusations are false, it's the person was waiting for unskippable dialogue to finding. Considering that is what the OP stated happened to them, and yet they're still being accused of just trying to read, I am doubtful. But everyone's experience is their own.

It does not change if someone is choosing to refuse to wait before they ever queued, that they are being selfish. That is NOT a reaction to someone's behavior in the dungeon. That is taking our a bad experience with one person on a total stranger and punishing them for it. It's selfish IMO.

Every single team should be given the same respect of teamwork to decide what is done by the group.

Dragonnord · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

A simple completion is also a need. Everyone will need different things. It shouldn't need to be spelled out. Everyone who queues for the activity needs to run the dungeon for some reason. If you go into a group activity without any time or inclination to do what the group needs and only you need, that's selfish.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

Yes. They do skip the dialogue. Not all dialogue is skippable and the dungeon this person is complaining is literally such a dungeon. They were not reading. Most people aren't reading. There is dialogue on several dungeons that must be listened to before you can spam skip, and it is those dungeons that constitute the vast majority of the complaints.

I disregard extreme examples because they are not the norm. The vast majority of the time they are asking for 1 or 2 minutes max.

That's why I put other examples, not only completion.

I personally have had the need to get skill points for my alts and NEVER EVER couldn't catch a group that was not waiting for me, so questers need to stop using the random finder for their first time on a dungeon, for role play questing or to press Continue in slow motion.

I have been playing since Day 1, have been inside dungeons and have used the finder hundred and hundred and hundred and hundred times, and what you say it's extreme, I find it very often.

I have been playing since day 1 as well. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen someone attempt to read the quest. Most such accusations are false, it's the person was waiting for unskippable dialogue to finding. Considering that is what the OP stated happened to them, and yet they're still being accused of just trying to read, I am doubtful. But everyone's experience is their own.

It does not change if someone is choosing to refuse to wait before they ever queued, that they are being selfish. That is NOT a reaction to someone's behavior in the dungeon. That is taking our a bad experience with one person on a total stranger and punishing them for it. It's selfish IMO.

Every single team should be given the same respect of teamwork to decide what is done by the group.

Well, nothing else to say then, since clearly you can't accept that you have your opinion and others have theirs.

What you find selfish, others do not.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

A simple completion is also a need. Everyone will need different things. It shouldn't need to be spelled out. Everyone who queues for the activity needs to run the dungeon for some reason. If you go into a group activity without any time or inclination to do what the group needs and only you need, that's selfish.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

Yes. They do skip the dialogue. Not all dialogue is skippable and the dungeon this person is complaining is literally such a dungeon. They were not reading. Most people aren't reading. There is dialogue on several dungeons that must be listened to before you can spam skip, and it is those dungeons that constitute the vast majority of the complaints.

I disregard extreme examples because they are not the norm. The vast majority of the time they are asking for 1 or 2 minutes max.

That's why I put other examples, not only completion.

I personally have had the need to get skill points for my alts and NEVER EVER couldn't catch a group that was not waiting for me, so questers need to stop using the random finder for their first time on a dungeon, for role play questing or to press Continue in slow motion.

I have been playing since Day 1, have been inside dungeons and have used the finder hundred and hundred and hundred and hundred times, and what you say it's extreme, I find it very often.

I have been playing since day 1 as well. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen someone attempt to read the quest. Most such accusations are false, it's the person was waiting for unskippable dialogue to finding. Considering that is what the OP stated happened to them, and yet they're still being accused of just trying to read, I am doubtful. But everyone's experience is their own.

It does not change if someone is choosing to refuse to wait before they ever queued, that they are being selfish. That is NOT a reaction to someone's behavior in the dungeon. That is taking our a bad experience with one person on a total stranger and punishing them for it. It's selfish IMO.

Every single team should be given the same respect of teamwork to decide what is done by the group.

Well, nothing else to say then, since clearly you can't accept that you have your opinion and others have theirs.

What you find selfish, others do not.

I can accept others don't find it selfish to choose to disregard their team in a group activity. But, it doesn't mean I have to agree.

Aurielle · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

A simple completion is also a need. Everyone will need different things. It shouldn't need to be spelled out. Everyone who queues for the activity needs to run the dungeon for some reason. If you go into a group activity without any time or inclination to do what the group needs and only you need, that's selfish.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

Yes. They do skip the dialogue. Not all dialogue is skippable and the dungeon this person is complaining is literally such a dungeon. They were not reading. Most people aren't reading. There is dialogue on several dungeons that must be listened to before you can spam skip, and it is those dungeons that constitute the vast majority of the complaints.

I disregard extreme examples because they are not the norm. The vast majority of the time they are asking for 1 or 2 minutes max.

That's why I put other examples, not only completion.

I personally have had the need to get skill points for my alts and NEVER EVER couldn't catch a group that was not waiting for me, so questers need to stop using the random finder for their first time on a dungeon, for role play questing or to press Continue in slow motion.

I have been playing since Day 1, have been inside dungeons and have used the finder hundred and hundred and hundred and hundred times, and what you say it's extreme, I find it very often.

I have been playing since day 1 as well. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen someone attempt to read the quest. Most such accusations are false, it's the person was waiting for unskippable dialogue to finding. Considering that is what the OP stated happened to them, and yet they're still being accused of just trying to read, I am doubtful. But everyone's experience is their own.

It does not change if someone is choosing to refuse to wait before they ever queued, that they are being selfish. That is NOT a reaction to someone's behavior in the dungeon. That is taking our a bad experience with one person on a total stranger and punishing them for it. It's selfish IMO.

Every single team should be given the same respect of teamwork to decide what is done by the group.

Well, nothing else to say then, since clearly you can't accept that you have your opinion and others have theirs.

What you find selfish, others do not.

I can accept others don't find it selfish to choose to disregard their team in a group activity. But, it doesn't mean I have to agree.

In this case (i.e. the OP’s situation), a “team” does not consist of one person. If the other players in that dungeon wanted to wait for them to complete the quest, they would have. This is why I said back on page one that it’s best to just go with the flow when you queue with randoms. If the majority wants to do the quest and one person wants to speed run, that one person should either leave or hang back and let them do the quest. If the majority wants to speed run, one person shouldn’t get upset in group chat when the group decides they don’t want to sit through lengthy unskippable quest dialogue.

The only thing that’s ever selfish when it comes to random dungeon PUGs is one person expecting the entire group to cater to THEIR needs and their needs alone.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

A simple completion is also a need. Everyone will need different things. It shouldn't need to be spelled out. Everyone who queues for the activity needs to run the dungeon for some reason. If you go into a group activity without any time or inclination to do what the group needs and only you need, that's selfish.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

Yes. They do skip the dialogue. Not all dialogue is skippable and the dungeon this person is complaining is literally such a dungeon. They were not reading. Most people aren't reading. There is dialogue on several dungeons that must be listened to before you can spam skip, and it is those dungeons that constitute the vast majority of the complaints.

I disregard extreme examples because they are not the norm. The vast majority of the time they are asking for 1 or 2 minutes max.

That's why I put other examples, not only completion.

I personally have had the need to get skill points for my alts and NEVER EVER couldn't catch a group that was not waiting for me, so questers need to stop using the random finder for their first time on a dungeon, for role play questing or to press Continue in slow motion.

I have been playing since Day 1, have been inside dungeons and have used the finder hundred and hundred and hundred and hundred times, and what you say it's extreme, I find it very often.

I have been playing since day 1 as well. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen someone attempt to read the quest. Most such accusations are false, it's the person was waiting for unskippable dialogue to finding. Considering that is what the OP stated happened to them, and yet they're still being accused of just trying to read, I am doubtful. But everyone's experience is their own.

It does not change if someone is choosing to refuse to wait before they ever queued, that they are being selfish. That is NOT a reaction to someone's behavior in the dungeon. That is taking our a bad experience with one person on a total stranger and punishing them for it. It's selfish IMO.

Every single team should be given the same respect of teamwork to decide what is done by the group.

Well, nothing else to say then, since clearly you can't accept that you have your opinion and others have theirs.

What you find selfish, others do not.

I can accept others don't find it selfish to choose to disregard their team in a group activity. But, it doesn't mean I have to agree.

In this case (i.e. the OP’s situation), a “team” does not consist of one person. If the other players in that dungeon wanted to wait for them to complete the quest, they would have. This is why I said back on page one that it’s best to just go with the flow when you queue with randoms. If the majority wants to do the quest and one person wants to speed run, that one person should either leave or hang back and let them do the quest. If the majority wants to speed run, one person shouldn’t get upset in group chat when the group decides they don’t want to sit through lengthy unskippable quest dialogue.

The only thing that’s ever selfish when it comes to random dungeon PUGs is one person expecting the entire group to cater to THEIR needs and their needs alone.

I was referring to the person queuing without the time to be able to adjust to a group's needs. If someone decides for the group prior to that group forming, then they cannot have taken into the consideration the group's needs. They don't even know them yet. It's just total disregard.

This was the reasoning cited as to why they wouldn't wait.

I do agree if the majority doesn't want to wait, then the quester should just do it later. But at the same time, nobody should be joining queue if they don't have the time to be a team player. A simple "I am sorry but I'm trying to get blah blah blah done" would have been the decent thing to do. But the person didn't want to wait to even do that courtesy because they queued without having time to be a team player. That's selfish IMO.

MidniteOwl1913 · March 28

JanTanhide wrote: »

SonOfSoma wrote: »

I'm so shocked sometimes by the entitled, self-indulgent members of this community.

Today I was on a level 45 ult account, trying to do my pledges.
As it happens I have not completed the quest for Banished Cells 1. So upon starting the run I grouped messaged that I was doing the quest and expected the group to just wait so I could collect it...but oh no.... here we go the 1600+ cp run off..

I expressed my frustration to be told that they were limited for time and if I didn't like it I could "leave".

Personally I always make a conscious effort to accommodate low level players, especially when they state they are doing the quest.

I'm just so astounded by the rudness of some players.
It's a shame that some people are like this.. God knows what they're like in the real world

I agree with you. I always wait for someone doing the quest. Always. When I queue for a random normal I expect lowbies to be running the dungeon(s). There definitely needs to be a way to deal with this. ZOS should make a "Speed Runner" random dungeon selection for those that want to burn through a dungeon.

I agree. Questing is one of the core functions of the game, speed running is not. Even though I have been thru the Banished Cells enough times to have completely filled the sticker book, I wait if asked. Always.

Aurielle · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

The entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need. All members of the group will have their own needs and as a group, you're supposed to help each other within reason. That's the entire concept of teamwork. People having a purpose for being in the finder is not selfish. Deciding only your purpose matters in a group activity is before the activity even starts is. And if you have queued without time to help people, then their bad behavior cannot be the justification because that's a future crime they're being held accountable for.

Most people don't stand there and read the whole story. They just want 1 minute for the unskippable dialogue. Extreme examples are just being used to defend selfish behavior.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Where (anywhere) does it say that the entire point of the activity finder is for people to find a group to help them with a dungeon need? That's in your book. In my book, the dungeon finder is to go to the specifically selected dungeon with other people, most of times for simple completion.

A simple completion is also a need. Everyone will need different things. It shouldn't need to be spelled out. Everyone who queues for the activity needs to run the dungeon for some reason. If you go into a group activity without any time or inclination to do what the group needs and only you need, that's selfish.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Also, I see you say most people skips dialogues and disregard my situations where I have to wait for several minutes. If you skip dialogues you can catch up almost instantly, so don't debate here like if they always skip the dialogue because it's not like that.

No one opens a thread to complain saying "Hey! I was skipping dialogue spamming Continuet and the other players kept running." No, if they complain is because they are questing and reading slowly, otherwise, with some exceptions of dialogues taking some more time, most dungeons you skip dialogue super fast.

Yes. They do skip the dialogue. Not all dialogue is skippable and the dungeon this person is complaining is literally such a dungeon. They were not reading. Most people aren't reading. There is dialogue on several dungeons that must be listened to before you can spam skip, and it is those dungeons that constitute the vast majority of the complaints.

I disregard extreme examples because they are not the norm. The vast majority of the time they are asking for 1 or 2 minutes max.

That's why I put other examples, not only completion.

I personally have had the need to get skill points for my alts and NEVER EVER couldn't catch a group that was not waiting for me, so questers need to stop using the random finder for their first time on a dungeon, for role play questing or to press Continue in slow motion.

I have been playing since Day 1, have been inside dungeons and have used the finder hundred and hundred and hundred and hundred times, and what you say it's extreme, I find it very often.

I have been playing since day 1 as well. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen someone attempt to read the quest. Most such accusations are false, it's the person was waiting for unskippable dialogue to finding. Considering that is what the OP stated happened to them, and yet they're still being accused of just trying to read, I am doubtful. But everyone's experience is their own.

It does not change if someone is choosing to refuse to wait before they ever queued, that they are being selfish. That is NOT a reaction to someone's behavior in the dungeon. That is taking our a bad experience with one person on a total stranger and punishing them for it. It's selfish IMO.

Every single team should be given the same respect of teamwork to decide what is done by the group.

Well, nothing else to say then, since clearly you can't accept that you have your opinion and others have theirs.

What you find selfish, others do not.

I can accept others don't find it selfish to choose to disregard their team in a group activity. But, it doesn't mean I have to agree.

In this case (i.e. the OP’s situation), a “team” does not consist of one person. If the other players in that dungeon wanted to wait for them to complete the quest, they would have. This is why I said back on page one that it’s best to just go with the flow when you queue with randoms. If the majority wants to do the quest and one person wants to speed run, that one person should either leave or hang back and let them do the quest. If the majority wants to speed run, one person shouldn’t get upset in group chat when the group decides they don’t want to sit through lengthy unskippable quest dialogue.

The only thing that’s ever selfish when it comes to random dungeon PUGs is one person expecting the entire group to cater to THEIR needs and their needs alone.

I was referring to the person queuing without the time to be able to adjust to a group's needs. If someone decides for the group prior to that group forming, then they cannot have taken into the consideration the group's needs. They don't even know them yet. It's just total disregard.

This was the reasoning cited as to why they wouldn't wait.

I do agree if the majority doesn't want to wait, then the quester should just do it later.

It isn’t “total disregard” if the majority also wants to speed run and doesn’t have time to dawdle in the dungeon to complete the quest. When you join a random PUG, you have no idea what you’re going to get. Most people who do normal dungeons aren’t there to do the quest, so it’s usually a safe assumption that a speed run is desired. Expecting that everyone who queues for a dungeon should be prepared and willing to cater to anyone else in that dungeon is not really realistic. It would be like expecting a tank to stick it out for the long haul in a vet dungeon where the DDs are doing less than 15k combined DPS, or expecting a healer to stick it out in a tough DLC vet dungeon with a fake tank who has no taunt.

Either go along with what the majority wants, or leave. And if one person is trying to disrupt the wishes of the majority, that’s what the kick vote is for. If the vote kick fails, just leave. It really isn’t worth getting upset over this stuff.

SonOfSoma · March 28

Can I just reiterate..

I asked the group to wait so I could pick up the quest at the beginning of nBC1, as if the group rushes off you lose the ability to gain the quest... as it happened this time.

It takes a matter of seconds to accept the quest at the beginning...
I was willing to rush on afterwards, as there is no real dialogue checks.

A few seconds!!! What is that to someone's day?

Aurielle · March 28

SonOfSoma wrote: »

Can I just reiterate..

I asked the group to wait so I could pick up the quest at the beginning of nBC1, as if the group rushes off you lose the ability to gain the quest... as it happened this time.

It takes a matter of seconds to accept the quest at the beginning...
I was willing to rush on afterwards, as there is no real dialogue checks.

A few seconds!!! What is that to someone's day?

Maybe they didn’t see your message. Maybe they simply didn’t want to do the quest. They don’t have to wait to pick up the quest if they don’t want to. Again, it’s not worth getting upset over it. It’s a minor inconvenience. Just run the dungeon again, and maybe you’ll have better luck picking it up next time.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Aurielle wrote: »

It isn’t “total disregard” if the majority also wants to speed run and doesn’t have time to dawdle in the dungeon to complete the quest.

It is because the person without time made the decision without knowing that. That they lucked into a group of people who also queued without having the time to be a team player doesn't retroactively change that.

Any decision a solo players makes at queue selection is about themselves and only themselves. The team has not been formed so there is no team to have worked with to arrive at that decision.

Some of those decisions on queue selection can have a negative impact on others (already making up their mind they will not wait for a quest, queuing tank without a taunt, etc). And they decided they don't care at all if their team members agree, they're going to do it anyway.

It's not unrealistic to decide to work with each team. I do it every time. It's easy.

I queue. I head straight to just out of aggro radius of the first add pull. If I notice someone is trying to do the quest or they communicate to me they don't want to rush, I'll wait or discuss it with them. Otherwise, I go with the flow of the group. Most times that's speed running. Sometimes, it isn't. I don't queue if I don't have time for either outcome.

Aurielle · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

It isn’t “total disregard” if the majority also wants to speed run and doesn’t have time to dawdle in the dungeon to complete the quest.

It is because the person without time made the decision without knowing that. That they lucked into a group of people who also queued without having the time to be a team player doesn't retroactively change that.

Any decision a solo players makes at queue selection is about themselves and only themselves. The team has not been formed so there is no team to have worked with to arrive at that decision.

Some of those decisions on queue selection can have a negative impact on others (already making up their mind they will not wait for a quest, queuing tank without a taunt, etc). And they decided they don't care at all if their team members agree, they're going to do it anyway.

Like I said, most people running dungeons these days only want to speed run them, so it’s a safe bet that most people using the dungeon finder don’t care if you don’t have the time to do a quest run. It’s a ten year old game, and most people have long since finished the quests on their main and alts.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

It isn’t “total disregard” if the majority also wants to speed run and doesn’t have time to dawdle in the dungeon to complete the quest.

It is because the person without time made the decision without knowing that. That they lucked into a group of people who also queued without having the time to be a team player doesn't retroactively change that.

Any decision a solo players makes at queue selection is about themselves and only themselves. The team has not been formed so there is no team to have worked with to arrive at that decision.

Some of those decisions on queue selection can have a negative impact on others (already making up their mind they will not wait for a quest, queuing tank without a taunt, etc). And they decided they don't care at all if their team members agree, they're going to do it anyway.

Like I said, most people running dungeons these days only want to speed run them, so it’s a safe bet that most people using the dungeon finder don’t care if you don’t have the time to do a quest run. It’s a ten year old game, and most people have long since finished the quests on their main and alts.

Most =/= all. If someone makes a decision for the entire team unilaterally before the team has even formed, then they are disregarding the entire population of players for whom that decision is a problem. The people who have been treated with disregard are obviously going to view that behavior as selfish and have a bad time. Don't want to be viewed that way, then just go with the flow of the team. 🤷🏿‍♀️

Aurielle · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

It isn’t “total disregard” if the majority also wants to speed run and doesn’t have time to dawdle in the dungeon to complete the quest.

It is because the person without time made the decision without knowing that. That they lucked into a group of people who also queued without having the time to be a team player doesn't retroactively change that.

Any decision a solo players makes at queue selection is about themselves and only themselves. The team has not been formed so there is no team to have worked with to arrive at that decision.

Some of those decisions on queue selection can have a negative impact on others (already making up their mind they will not wait for a quest, queuing tank without a taunt, etc). And they decided they don't care at all if their team members agree, they're going to do it anyway.

Like I said, most people running dungeons these days only want to speed run them, so it’s a safe bet that most people using the dungeon finder don’t care if you don’t have the time to do a quest run. It’s a ten year old game, and most people have long since finished the quests on their main and alts.

Most =/= all. If someone makes a decision for the entire team unilaterally before the team has even formed, then they are disregarding the entire population of players for whom that decision is a problem.

And once again, it’s a random dungeon with random players who each may have different goals. To avoid the problem of grouping up with different players with different goals, use the group finder, guild chat, or zone chat to form a group. You can’t expect that everyone in a random dungeon will be willing to compromise and take a vote on how they’re going to proceed with the dungeon — that’s just the nature of grouping up with random people.

Edit:

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

It isn’t “total disregard” if the majority also wants to speed run and doesn’t have time to dawdle in the dungeon to complete the quest.

It is because the person without time made the decision without knowing that. That they lucked into a group of people who also queued without having the time to be a team player doesn't retroactively change that.

Any decision a solo players makes at queue selection is about themselves and only themselves. The team has not been formed so there is no team to have worked with to arrive at that decision.

Some of those decisions on queue selection can have a negative impact on others (already making up their mind they will not wait for a quest, queuing tank without a taunt, etc). And they decided they don't care at all if their team members agree, they're going to do it anyway.

Like I said, most people running dungeons these days only want to speed run them, so it’s a safe bet that most people using the dungeon finder don’t care if you don’t have the time to do a quest run. It’s a ten year old game, and most people have long since finished the quests on their main and alts.

Don't want to be viewed that way, then just go with the flow of the team. 🤷🏿‍♀️

I said this in one of my very first posts in this thread, with an important addendum: if you don’t like what the majority wants to do, you always have the option of leaving the group as well. Funnily enough, this is precisely what was suggested to the OP by their “selfish” group mates who didn’t want to do the quest.

Amottica · March 28

Dragonnord wrote: »

@spartaxoxo I don't agree. Selfish is grouping expecting to use the time of others for your own needs.

And don't say "join an activity without 1 minute to spare for the group's needs" because I have waited 5 minutes for people reading a quest and you write to them in chat "Hey! (player name), you there?" No response and then they continues like if nothing happened, no response, just on their own pace, like if you are not there or worse, like if you are there as their following servant, hired guide or mercenary. And then again, same waiting on next NPC.

I agree with this. I cannot say those doing the speed run were wrong since we are talking about one person not pleased that three completely random people wanted to do things differently.

If we are talking about a team then the team vote vote was clear that it was to be a speed run. We get things like that when we ask the game to form a completely random group with various interests and time demands.

spartaxoxo · March 28

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

It isn’t “total disregard” if the majority also wants to speed run and doesn’t have time to dawdle in the dungeon to complete the quest.

It is because the person without time made the decision without knowing that. That they lucked into a group of people who also queued without having the time to be a team player doesn't retroactively change that.

Any decision a solo players makes at queue selection is about themselves and only themselves. The team has not been formed so there is no team to have worked with to arrive at that decision.

Some of those decisions on queue selection can have a negative impact on others (already making up their mind they will not wait for a quest, queuing tank without a taunt, etc). And they decided they don't care at all if their team members agree, they're going to do it anyway.

Like I said, most people running dungeons these days only want to speed run them, so it’s a safe bet that most people using the dungeon finder don’t care if you don’t have the time to do a quest run. It’s a ten year old game, and most people have long since finished the quests on their main and alts.

Most =/= all. If someone makes a decision for the entire team unilaterally before the team has even formed, then they are disregarding the entire population of players for whom that decision is a problem.

And once again, it’s a random dungeon with random players who each may have different goals. To avoid the problem of grouping up with different players with different goals, use the group finder, guild chat, or zone chat to form a group. You can’t expect that everyone in a random dungeon will be willing to compromise and take a vote on how they’re going to proceed with the dungeon — that’s just the nature of grouping up with random people.

I don't have expectations of what I'll end up getting. I typically go with the flow. I don't even think being selfish in that one instances makes someone selfish overall. It's a video game, we're all allowed to be selfish sometimes while playing it. Like little in this game is that deep.

If I want something super particular, then I form a group ahead of time or solo it. If I just want a clear, I go into a random. But, I also understand my actions have impact on others. So I do try to pay attention to the group's needs.

Neiska · March 28

Let's play hypothetical.

Let's say, for example, a friend and I joined a random dungeon group. And as soon as someone took off IAMSPEED, we toggled our walk/run, and just, leisurely strolled through the dungeon.

Let's take that further. Let's say said friend and I also stopped to search for every tomato. Every grain of rice. Every container in the dungeon. And then just to be sure we didn't miss a recipe; we did that twice.

Let's now take that even further. Let's say that my friend noticed during our leisurely stroll, that IAMSPEED missed all these side enemies and optional bosses. Why, we can't have that can we? They should be killed too! They might have valuable loot after all. I am missing that one recipe from this dungeon!

Now let's get CRAZY with it. Let's say we tested each and every seat or useable piece of furniture. We tested each fire to cook on. Then we would stop to roleplay in group chat, between each and every pull. Including both our two characters interactions, as well as our inner monologues.

None of these things are against the rules. We are, as you speed runners say, "just playing the game." There is no rule that dungeons MUST be completed in a time limit. There is no rule that says dungeons MUST be completed at all. If my friend and I wanted to, we could sit on our rumps at the entrance and talk about decor. Hey, we are just playing the game we like, right? It's all game related? We aren't exploiting. Cheating. Or doing anything against any specific rules. YOU are the ones in a hurry. It's not our fault you are in a rush. So, again, purely hypothetical here, what would your options be?

1. Finish the dungeon, possibly alone. This might take quite a bit of time, and certainly more hassle than if you waited for said questers.

2. Try to boot/kick. But, what's this? There's two of us. So, you kicking isn't an option.

3. Drop group and get that nice abandon debuff to keep you from cueing again. And, since I was the tank, you might have another 40 or so minute wait time on top of the debuff timer.

Now, I don't actually support doing any of these actions. Because its antagonistic, and only adds fuel to the fire. But if we want to split hairs here, all of these things would be allowed.

Speedrunning, is only such a big issue in ESO, simply because people "can." In other games, the Tank sets the pace. Tanks do not set the pace here, at all. Tanks only set the pace if people allow them to. If people tried to speed in other games, they would likely die, and likely kill their group in the process. Here? There is very little risk of that in the majority of the dungeons. Which is why its so prevalent. And also why I think its so bad here, is because players cant do it in most other MMOs similar to ESO.

Now, my entire point here, is that just because you "can" do something, doesn't mean you "should." When someone does that, it tells me they value their time more than everyone else's time, particularly if they didn't even ask first. Honestly? If someone wanted to speedrun, and just asked group "Hey, can we speedy this one?" I wouldn't mind it one bit. If everyone said "sure lets do it" then I actually would be fine with it. Its the 1 person "forcing" it on others is what bothers me so much.

Is it legit gameplay? Sure. But so is everything else I listed here too. It is after all, as so many people have said, a "group" dungeon. And if you want to control the group, then go make your own, and so on.

There is nothing keeping people going "nope" and just dropping either. A lot of people don't care about the wait time, and have plenty of other things to do. I suspect having to replace people would affect the speedrunner more than anyone else. They are the ones in such a hurry, after all.

The argument that Speedrunning is the "Default" group mode of play, is false. It isn't the default mode anymore than any other mode is. Speed runners can just "force" it to happen, and others can't "force" the speedrunner to wait for questers and the like.

And I wouldn't expect it to change anytime soon. Even if ESO did put in 2 different group finders - one for speed, one for story, I would still expect to get group with speedrunners, even in the "story" mode.

Just food for thought.

Aurielle · March 28

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

It isn’t “total disregard” if the majority also wants to speed run and doesn’t have time to dawdle in the dungeon to complete the quest.

It is because the person without time made the decision without knowing that. That they lucked into a group of people who also queued without having the time to be a team player doesn't retroactively change that.

Any decision a solo players makes at queue selection is about themselves and only themselves. The team has not been formed so there is no team to have worked with to arrive at that decision.

Some of those decisions on queue selection can have a negative impact on others (already making up their mind they will not wait for a quest, queuing tank without a taunt, etc). And they decided they don't care at all if their team members agree, they're going to do it anyway.

Like I said, most people running dungeons these days only want to speed run them, so it’s a safe bet that most people using the dungeon finder don’t care if you don’t have the time to do a quest run. It’s a ten year old game, and most people have long since finished the quests on their main and alts.

Most =/= all. If someone makes a decision for the entire team unilaterally before the team has even formed, then they are disregarding the entire population of players for whom that decision is a problem.

And once again, it’s a random dungeon with random players who each may have different goals. To avoid the problem of grouping up with different players with different goals, use the group finder, guild chat, or zone chat to form a group. You can’t expect that everyone in a random dungeon will be willing to compromise and take a vote on how they’re going to proceed with the dungeon — that’s just the nature of grouping up with random people.

I don't have expectations of what I'll end up getting. I typically go with the flow. I don't even think being selfish in that one instances makes someone selfish overall. It's a video game, we're all allowed to be selfish sometimes while playing it. Like little in this game is that deep.

If I want something super particular, then I form a group ahead of time or solo it. If I just want a clear, I go into a random. But, I also understand my actions have impact on others. So I do try to pay attention to the group's needs.

The group members who didn’t have time to do a quest run were going with the flow. If they weren’t happy with doing a speed run, they would have hung back to do the quest. It was just OP who wanted to do the quest. So I really don’t see how, in this case, it was the speed runners who were at fault…