Batswarm users retain ALL of their AP?

Luxtester · May 2014

Okay, the general concencus for the majority of players was that this was considered bug abuse and I completely agree with this. I've been a V10 vampire for a while and I refused to use this to farm easy AP. I had everything I needed to do so but simply did not because it's an unfair advantage. I also expected some kind of punishment for people that did, it ruined PVP for a lot of people..

I am disgusted that all of these abusers who have been reported by a lot of players get to keep all of their ill gained alliance points..

All these players that exploited this bug should have their points reduced and kicked out of the top 100 ranking. People that are against punishments are either clanmembers, friends or the abusers themselves.

Niffo · May 2014

At a minimum everything that has happened during this campaign has to be scrapped. Letting people that cheat or abuse broken mechanics keep their rewards is not at all good for the overall health of the game.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO · May 2014

It's disheartening to see a company that I still think cares about this game, to allow themselves to let the AvA issues and badly broken skills that contributed to it go unchecked for so long.

It was within their power to shut down AvA and fix these issues, however they pushed on and allowed the rest of their subscribers take the full hit and frustration based on a small amount of players who maliciously abused and exploited these game mechanics.

I have heard it for years by every cheater, "The system let me do it, so therefore it's not an exploit!" or, "It's easy to counter x,y,z, you just have to L2P!"

As a whole, I feel the community at large is smart enough to know when something is wrong and when things are being exploited and abused, hence why there has been a lot of vocal posts here and on reddit.

ZOS has an opportunity to set things right, and they need to, by removing an appropriate amount of AP + any rewards from those players who abused this. Will they do it? I doubt it.

A real shame, if I was the company director, I would understand the issue and choose to lose a small amount of subs (if these abusers came forward and threatened to cancel subs, hell that would be gravy for the community), if those who abused these broken game mechanics quit and cancelled, knowing that the company would retain the larger share of the community for doing the right thing.

Lets see how the community votes in terms of their subs pending what ZOS decides to do. Yes, I think it is that serious and I strongly encourage ZOS to step up to the plate and take full responsibility for what happened, while also taking the correct action in order to save the majority of the AvA community.

LadyChaos · May 2014

Luxtester wrote: »

Okay, the general concencus for the majority of players was that this was considered bug abuse and I completely agree with this. I've been a V10 vampire for a while and I refused to use this to farm easy AP. I had everything I needed to do so but simply did not because it's an unfair advantage. I also expected some kind of punishment for people that did, it ruined PVP for a lot of people..

I am disgusted that all of these abusers who have been reported by a lot of players get to keep all of their ill gained alliance points..

All these players that exploited this bug should have their points reduced and kicked out of the top 100 ranking. People that are against punishments are either clanmembers, friends or the abusers themselves.

I don't want to sound negative but IMO the campaign AP/rankings have been a joke since the repeatable player kill exploits. Don't get me wrong some players are for reals in the top 10 etc.. Ehr for us on AD is always on and glad to see him crowned... but if they didn't reset it for that they wouldn't even consider for this IMO.

I do think its good on you that you chose not to use what you considered broken, I felt same way about bolt and scroll... but I don't hold anything against those who are still using bolt until change is live.

I'm just hoping the drama is out of the way by the time practice campaign is over. I will not be happy to have multiple wasted campaigns...

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

Yeah ok ... not. With all the problems this game has you are worried about AP points being a bit askew? Really? Really?

Niffo · May 2014

GeeYouWhy wrote: »

Yeah ok ... not. With all the problems this game has you are worried about AP points being a bit askew? Really? Really?

Looks like someone wants their to keep their unearned AP.

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

GeeYouWhy wrote: »

Yeah ok ... not. With all the problems this game has you are worried about AP points being a bit askew? Really? Really?

Looks like someone wants their to keep their unearned AP.

Nope, I'm only a VR2 NB and have only dipped my toe in AvA. I have around 2k AP and that was just blind luck early on. I just don't begrudge those who figured out a killer tactic. Their success does not diminish my play experience.

Niffo · May 2014

GeeYouWhy wrote: »

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

GeeYouWhy wrote: »

Yeah ok ... not. With all the problems this game has you are worried about AP points being a bit askew? Really? Really?

Looks like someone wants their to keep their unearned AP.

Nope, I'm only a VR2 NB and have only dipped my toe in AvA. I have around 2k AP and that was just blind luck early on. I just don't begrudge those who figured out a killer tactic. Their success does not diminish my play experience.

A killer tactic would not have been nerfed, the devs would have said it was working as intended. Do you also think the people that exploited veteran exp gain from bugged npcs to fly through the levels only to have all vet exp nerfed into the ground as people have figured out a killer tactic? When people use something that is broken to get ahead, they are exploiting, and you don't reward exploiters.

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

My son and his guild spent their time figuring out how to take them down instead of coming to the message boards to whine about it and guess what, they succeeded. They saw it as a challenge and rose to the occasion.

IMO Zenimax would have taken action if they felt it was worth punishing these players. Zenimax handed them tools and they figured out how to put them to best use. I don't think it was a bug, I think it was bad game design and a conscious decision by Zenimax to implement the Vampire abilities the way they did and therefore not the player's fault. The designers simply didn't realize what would happen until it was too late.

NakedSnake · May 2014

The OP is right there should be a reduction. They should also reduce the levels of all VR players due to the repeatable quest exploit as well as give an XP boost to those that have suffered through broken unfinishable quests. Also the Nightblade has a lot of broken skills so all NB's should be compensated with a full epic set to offset the imbalance...

Niffo · May 2014

GeeYouWhy wrote: »

My son and his guild spent their time figuring out how to take them down instead of coming to the message boards to whine about it and guess what, they succeeded. They saw it as a challenge and rose to the occasion.

IMO Zenimax would have taken action if they felt it was worth punishing these players. Zenimax handed them tools and they figured out how to put them to best use. I don't think it was a bug, I think it was bad game design and a conscious decision by Zenimax to implement the Vampire abilities the way they did and therefore not the player's fault. The designers simply didn't realize what would happen until it was too late.

Do you think the amount of effort required to stop a single player using bat swarm is reasonable? Zenimax and the players are at fault, Zenimax for being terrible at testing and designing, and the players for abusing something that is clearly broken because it gave them an advantage.

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

Oh and btw, I am a vampire and I do use Bat Swarm (PvE only so far) but I cannot possibly perma-cast it or even stack it once. I can use it maybe once every 3 or 4 fights and I use it because it is the best heal I have.

Speaking of which, time to update my sig, I don't use a bow anymore.

Edit: There, my signature is more accurate now.

reggielee · May 2014

meh, those who abused this will quit soon enough being bored with having to actually work for pvp again

Niffo · May 2014

GeeYouWhy wrote: »

Oh and btw, I am a vampire and I do use Bat Swarm (PvE only so far) but I cannot possibly perma-cast it or even stack it once. I can use it maybe once every 3 or 4 fights and I use it because it is the best heal I have.

Speaking of which, time to update my sig, I don't use a bow anymore.

Edit: There, my signature is more accurate now.

Only Sorcerers and Dragonknights could really abuse the ability, Nightblades and Templars just don't have the tools of those two classes.

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

reggielee wrote: »

meh, those who abused this will quit soon enough being bored with having to actually work for pvp again

So true.

Cydone · May 2014

LadyChaos wrote: »

Luxtester wrote: »

Okay, the general concencus for the majority of players was that this was considered bug abuse and I completely agree with this. I've been a V10 vampire for a while and I refused to use this to farm easy AP. I had everything I needed to do so but simply did not because it's an unfair advantage. I also expected some kind of punishment for people that did, it ruined PVP for a lot of people..

I am disgusted that all of these abusers who have been reported by a lot of players get to keep all of their ill gained alliance points..

All these players that exploited this bug should have their points reduced and kicked out of the top 100 ranking. People that are against punishments are either clanmembers, friends or the abusers themselves.

I don't want to sound negative but IMO the campaign AP/rankings have been a joke since the repeatable player kill exploits. Don't get me wrong some players are for reals in the top 10 etc.. Ehr for us on AD is always on and glad to see him crowned... but if they didn't reset it for that they wouldn't even consider for this IMO.

I do think its good on you that you chose not to use what you considered broken, I felt same way about bolt and scroll... but I don't hold anything against those who are still using bolt until change is live.

I'm just hoping the drama is out of the way by the time practice campaign is over. I will not be happy to have multiple wasted campaigns...

Good god, get off the exploit thing. It was an intended mechanic that ppl took advantage of. That is the opposite of an exploit. An exploit is taking advantage of an UNintended mechanic for personal benefit. And nerfing the entire quest to the point that it pretty much took out all viability to level in pvp was a knee jerk reaction, not to mention a horrid idea. All they had to do was lower the AP gains from the quest and it would have been perfect. Since nerfing that quest the pvp population has dropped significantly. Something that, with someone who pvps a lot(as you say you do), should really concern you.

LadyChaos · May 2014

Cydone wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

Luxtester wrote: »

Okay, the general concencus for the majority of players was that this was considered bug abuse and I completely agree with this. I've been a V10 vampire for a while and I refused to use this to farm easy AP. I had everything I needed to do so but simply did not because it's an unfair advantage. I also expected some kind of punishment for people that did, it ruined PVP for a lot of people..

I am disgusted that all of these abusers who have been reported by a lot of players get to keep all of their ill gained alliance points..

All these players that exploited this bug should have their points reduced and kicked out of the top 100 ranking. People that are against punishments are either clanmembers, friends or the abusers themselves.

I don't want to sound negative but IMO the campaign AP/rankings have been a joke since the repeatable player kill exploits. Don't get me wrong some players are for reals in the top 10 etc.. Ehr for us on AD is always on and glad to see him crowned... but if they didn't reset it for that they wouldn't even consider for this IMO.

I do think its good on you that you chose not to use what you considered broken, I felt same way about bolt and scroll... but I don't hold anything against those who are still using bolt until change is live.

I'm just hoping the drama is out of the way by the time practice campaign is over. I will not be happy to have multiple wasted campaigns...

Good god, get off the exploit thing. It was an intended mechanic that ppl took advantage of. That is the opposite of an exploit. An exploit is taking advantage of an UNintended mechanic for personal benefit. And nerfing the entire quest to the point that it pretty much took out all viability to level in pvp was a knee jerk reaction, not to mention a horrid idea. All they had to do was lower the AP gains from the quest and it would have been perfect. Since nerfing that quest the pvp population has dropped significantly. Something that, with someone who pvps a lot(as you say you do), should really concern you.

It was not intended to leave your group as soon as you hit 25 kills (60s to 5 mins tops), suicide for speedy port to base, turn int, get new quest, rinse repeat. There is a phrase written into TOS that covers anomalies like this. Because it was so widespread I think it was fair not to penalize... which is why they should not be penalized... but exploit yes. I will continue to refer to a repeatable quest used specifically to spam xp/AP over and over regardless of group and alliance needs that takes advantage of the group killing players not oneself as an exploit (albeit openly excused exploit) until forever.

Apparently the stars have now unaligned? Those fickle biches

AngelofAwe · May 2014

LOL.

My only comment to this topic as a whole.

Gwarok · May 2014

(/sarcasm on)
I smell an incoming roll back of all AP points to be reset to zero.

(/sarcasm off)

Let's start over from scratch

Ultimate fairness is fair, rite?

LadyChaos · May 2014

Gwarok wrote: »

(/sarcasm on)
I smell an incoming roll back of all AP points to be reset to zero.
(/sarcasm off)

Let's start over from scratch

Ultimate fairness is fair, rite?

yep... in like what 40 days now?? totally reset...