Please speed up Skull's projectile speed.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 8

Skulls are far too easy to dodge in PvP. If you've ever used them outside of melee range, you'll know the dodge window feels like it lasts 3+ globals; people often dodge it unintentionally. This is pretty tragic, because the somewhat recent buff to the ability makes the damage attractive, but nigh impossible to use on anything other than a melee build.

With the new Sacrifice buff, the dev team is clearly trying to encourage use of other abilities in Necro's kit outside of Blastbones. Implementing a faster projectile speed, even if it's just a slight speed increase (say, 15%), would make this ability feel a lot better to use. The slow projectile speed makes it much too clunky (as is the case with many Necro abilities).

Twohothardware · February 8

Necro's Skulls and Wardens Cliff Racer are both terrible in PvP. Their speed is too slow to hit players in PvP when it's so easy to roll dodge and get immunity.

bar_boss_A · February 8

Absolutely pro but every projectile has an insane dodge window. Even projectile hitting 1s after the dodge is complete still miss the target.

Necrotech_Master · February 8

Twohothardware wrote: »

Necro's Skulls and Wardens Cliff Racer are both terrible in PvP. Their speed is too slow to hit players in PvP when it's so easy to roll dodge and get immunity.

cliff racer used to have something going for it - it was originally unable to be dodged lol

since they fixed that its definitely not great (i didnt really like using the skill anyway because it feels too slow)

Turtle_Bot · February 9

bar_boss_A wrote: »

Absolutely pro but every projectile has an insane dodge window. Even projectile hitting 1s after the dodge is complete still miss the target.

I'm finding this even with crushing shock (which is not supposed to even be a projectile).

I think the positional desync in this game is getting worse and its starting to cause all ranged abilities to miss highly mobile targets, either that, or ZOS completely borked the dodge window of dodge rolling a couple of patches ago and it's just been getting worse since.

But, back on topic, yeah, all projectiles need a speed increase (to a varying degree), but especially skulls, dive and reach.

But what would help skulls (alongside many abilities like wardens dive, sorcs lightning splash, etc) a lot, would be to reduce the duration of the cast animation/cast delay, making the abilities actually cast faster (or instant as is described in the tooltips).
This is a known and long standing issue for lightning splash, where these long cast durations (that aren't noted in the tooltips) that actually delay the cast of the ability itself (to the point where bar swapping will actually prevent the ability from firing all together) are a relic of the original combat teams designs (where animation fluidity was more important and weaving for ani-canceling wasn't yet as widely common/accepted) and as such, any ability with this type of hidden cast delay just becomes clunky to use at best or downright unusable at worst.

If an ability says "Instant Cast", it should fire instantly, not have a 0.5 second casting animation that delays the ability from firing until the cast animation completes or prevents the ability from firing completely if animation cancelling via weaving/bar swap, especially now with how widely known (and utilized) weaving/ani-canceling has become to squeeze the most DPS possible out of any build.

ApoAlaia · February 9

Although speeding the projectiles up is probably the most practical (and feasible) approach personally I would prefer if at least the skull and the bird were 'homing' projectiles (like the infamous suitcase in Hitman) that would follow you with the same tenacity as the aggroed mobs do.

The idea of players being relentlessly pursued by a flock of birds and skulls around a resource/keep tower is somewhat... pleasing.

JerBearESO · February 9

Don't speed it up, slow it down! Then make it undodgeable and shift half of its damage into a stacking DoT. Make it spoooooky!!!

Imagine a bunch of these slowly but surely chasing your target, maybe making some chomping animation on the way.

But everyone wants it to be turned into every other projectile spammable instead...? Come on people 😆

Faulgor · February 9

JerBearESO wrote: »

Don't speed it up, slow it down! Then make it undodgeable and shift half of its damage into a stacking DoT. Make it spoooooky!!!

Imagine a bunch of these slowly but surely chasing your target, maybe making some chomping animation on the way.

But everyone wants it to be turned into every other projectile spammable instead...? Come on people 😆

Should probably also apply fear, then. Preferably while it is chasing you, lol.

ItsNotLiving · February 9

I wonder why they haven’t increased the speed on skulls and birds I’m starting to think they just can’t do it for some unknown technical reason.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 9

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I wonder why they haven’t increased the speed on skulls and birds I’m starting to think they just can’t do it for some unknown technical reason.

There's no evidence suggesting they shouldn't be able to do it - they've adjusted projectile speeds of abilities and even procs before in the past.

JerBearESO · February 9

Faulgor wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

Don't speed it up, slow it down! Then make it undodgeable and shift half of its damage into a stacking DoT. Make it spoooooky!!!

Imagine a bunch of these slowly but surely chasing your target, maybe making some chomping animation on the way.

But everyone wants it to be turned into every other projectile spammable instead...? Come on people 😆

Should probably also apply fear, then. Preferably while it is chasing you, lol.

Necro actually needs CC, so fear on third cast could totally work!

xDeusEJRx · February 10

Skulls needs a lot more attention beyond the projectile speed imo, but knowing Zos they might do too much with the skill so I think that the least they can do is increase the projectile speed.

SandandStars · February 10

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I wonder why they haven’t increased the speed on skulls and birds I’m starting to think they just can’t do it for some unknown technical reason.

^^ This.

The engine straight up can’t make these skills go faster, probably due to the nature & detail of how the animations were coded at the time.

Try using elemental weapon with a bow light attack in pvp some time. You can get the timing/rhythm down perfect for pve, but when you do the exact same muscle memory button presses in pvp, half the time either the ranged light attack or ele weapon simply won’t fire.

It’s gotten worse since I started playing 3 years ago, and I hate to say it, but I think it’s only going to continue in this direction.

xDeusEJRx · February 10

SandandStars wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I wonder why they haven’t increased the speed on skulls and birds I’m starting to think they just can’t do it for some unknown technical reason.

^^ This.

The engine straight up can’t make these skills go faster, probably due to the nature & detail of how the animations were coded at the time.

Try using elemental weapon with a bow light attack in pvp some time. You can get the timing/rhythm down perfect for pve, but when you do the exact same muscle memory button presses in pvp, half the time either the ranged light attack or ele weapon simply won’t fire.

It’s gotten worse since I started playing 3 years ago, and I hate to say it, but I think it’s only going to continue in this direction.

Don't think this is true. They increased the travel time of snipe back during Elsweyr which leads me to believe it's not impossible to buff travel time on skills.

From Elsweyr patch notes:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/474422/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-0-5-elsweyr-update-22#latest

SandandStars · February 10

I’d like to hope youre right, but compare the animation on snipe to cliff racers or skulls. It’s a lot more minimalist, cant help but think this might be a factor,

lunaslide · February 10

JerBearESO wrote: »

Don't speed it up, slow it down! Then make it undodgeable and shift half of its damage into a stacking DoT. Make it spoooooky!!!

Imagine a bunch of these slowly but surely chasing your target, maybe making some chomping animation on the way.

But everyone wants it to be turned into every other projectile spammable instead...? Come on people 😆

I actually like the idea, but have you noticed anything peculiar about how Blastbones is able to track it's target?

The most amusing example I've seen was blastbones fired point blank range at an enemy in IC inside a building...and it took off out the door and down the street.

Careful what you wish for.

JerBearESO · February 10

lunaslide wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

Don't speed it up, slow it down! Then make it undodgeable and shift half of its damage into a stacking DoT. Make it spoooooky!!!

Imagine a bunch of these slowly but surely chasing your target, maybe making some chomping animation on the way.

But everyone wants it to be turned into every other projectile spammable instead...? Come on people 😆

I actually like the idea, but have you noticed anything peculiar about how Blastbones is able to track it's target?

The most amusing example I've seen was blastbones fired point blank range at an enemy in IC inside a building...and it took off out the door and down the street.

Careful what you wish for.

Blastbones is is handled as an entity, like an NPC, while projectiles are handled very differently. Super simple code there, nothing to worry about, trust me 😀

JerBearESO · February 10

SandandStars wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I wonder why they haven’t increased the speed on skulls and birds I’m starting to think they just can’t do it for some unknown technical reason.

^^ This.

The engine straight up can’t make these skills go faster, probably due to the nature & detail of how the animations were coded at the time.

Try using elemental weapon with a bow light attack in pvp some time. You can get the timing/rhythm down perfect for pve, but when you do the exact same muscle memory button presses in pvp, half the time either the ranged light attack or ele weapon simply won’t fire.

It’s gotten worse since I started playing 3 years ago, and I hate to say it, but I think it’s only going to continue in this direction.

I don't think it's an engine issue, but moreso a logic one. Let's actually imagine the skull/bird sped up to standards of other projectiles. It wouldn't look natural. Skull would be a blur and bird would look bizarre. I think they want to maintain the visual aspects which require the projectile to actually exist for a certain time frame to make sense to literally just the human brain

CameraBeardThePirate · February 10

SandandStars wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I wonder why they haven’t increased the speed on skulls and birds I’m starting to think they just can’t do it for some unknown technical reason.

^^ This.

The engine straight up can’t make these skills go faster, probably due to the nature & detail of how the animations were coded at the time.

Try using elemental weapon with a bow light attack in pvp some time. You can get the timing/rhythm down perfect for pve, but when you do the exact same muscle memory button presses in pvp, half the time either the ranged light attack or ele weapon simply won’t fire.

It’s gotten worse since I started playing 3 years ago, and I hate to say it, but I think it’s only going to continue in this direction.

This straight up isn't true. They've tinkered with a number of projectile speeds, including but not limited to Snipe, Caluurions, and Merciless Resolve.

SandandStars · February 10

ok I hope youre right @CameraBeardThePirate , however, once again, I ask u to consider the comparatively elaborate animations of cliff racers and skulls vs snipe, merciless, caluurions.

Flame skulls and cliff racers are instant cast but is it ever explained anywhere why the travel time is magnitudes slower than crushing shock or merciless?

I can’t believe the dev team isn’t aware that the travel time on these skills has made them unusable in pvp for years

That’s what leads me to think they struggle with technical limitations. Kind of like the stuck in combat bug.

If it weren’t incredibly difficult for them to fix, wouldn’t they have simply done it by now?

Alaztor91 · February 10

SandandStars wrote: »

ok I hope youre right @CameraBeardThePirate , however, once again, I ask u to consider the comparatively elaborate animations of cliff racers and skulls vs snipe, merciless, caluurions.

Flame skulls and cliff racers are instant cast but is it ever explained anywhere why the travel time is magnitudes slower than crushing shock or merciless?

I can’t believe the dev team isn’t aware that the travel time on these skills has made them unusable in pvp for years

That’s what leads me to think they struggle with technical limitations. Kind of like the stuck in combat bug.

If it weren’t incredibly difficult for them to fix, wouldn’t they have simply done it by now?

If Flame Skull animation can't be sped up because of ''technical issues'', ZOS could just borrow the ''skull throwing'' animation from the final vMA boss (the one where you have to interrupt him), they are pretty much the same thing and the one Voriak Solkyn uses is noticeable faster.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 11

SandandStars wrote: »

ok I hope youre right @CameraBeardThePirate , however, once again, I ask u to consider the comparatively elaborate animations of cliff racers and skulls vs snipe, merciless, caluurions.

Flame skulls and cliff racers are instant cast but is it ever explained anywhere why the travel time is magnitudes slower than crushing shock or merciless?

I can’t believe the dev team isn’t aware that the travel time on these skills has made them unusable in pvp for years

That’s what leads me to think they struggle with technical limitations. Kind of like the stuck in combat bug.

If it weren’t incredibly difficult for them to fix, wouldn’t they have simply done it by now?

They still haven't added any of the numerous buffs necro needs to outsource, and that's not "incredibly difficult" for them either. They haven't done it because they haven't done it, that's all there is to it.

SandandStars · February 11

well, I dont know what’s more disheartening, the thought that the team doesn’t care about/prioritize these major pain points that have been clearly and repeatedly identified in pts & forum feedback, or that they struggle with what seem like basic technical issues (block not working for months, stuck in combat, skills not firing in pvp, perpetual desync, etc).

I mained a magden in pvp for almost 2 years, and having no class spammable made trying to synergize gear really tough. If they could speed up cliff racers to make them hit even 50% of the time, it would breathe new life and build options into the class.