Can something be done about Rez spam?

Freilauftomate · January 2024

I miss the time when we could revive and siege undisturbed after taking an immovability potion.

It's already hard enough to revive players without ending up in the menu (at least on playstation). And if i remember correctly you can interrupt every attempt to revive, but you can't interrupt a cc immune tank from burning your siege.

Maybe someone should take a look at this, but we all know this will only happen if it affects PvE too.

React · January 2024

Freilauftomate wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

Immortality, even if it is reached using legit mechanics, should never be achievable in any videogame. Sorry...it's boring!

Nobody is immortal. The op is fighting 4 enemies at the same time, killed one of them and then almost killed the "unkillable tank" while being pressured by the remaining two. If there was a second player helping him, this fight would have been over in 10 seconds. You might not be able to kill every player on your own in this game, but you don't have to, you can always group up.

He could have just let the warden revive the poor new PvP char and instantly kill him again while being low on resources (after being revived he would have been empty and low health). Or he could have just killed one of the other 2 players while the warden was busy reviving. Or idk, bomb them all at the same time after the dead player got up. So many opportunities, but he chose to focus the tank for some reason.

What he really should have done, is just leave the poor questers alone and go fight someone else. They were obviously no match for him, and it always makes me sad watching videos like this. Good players should fight other good players and leave the low levels and "not really PvP" players alone until they really want to fight.

I am a mediocre player, maybe even bad, but when i fight someone who is worse and obviously has no clue what they are doing, i will slow down, let them recover and make a training session out of it. You have to give new players a chance, or they might not come back to play PvP ever again. Maybe it's not possible to do this in the middle of a big battle for a keep, but when there is noone else around, there is no need to be overly aggressive. I wish at least some of the "gods" in Cyrodiil would do the same.

This isn't accurate at all, and you've made some drastic assumptions here.

That "new pvp player" is a 40k hp stamsorc with vat ice + mdw. A very informed meta build. The other two players are nightblades I fight frequently in IC, one of which is running my old rallying + NMG + balorgh build. Another informed player in a meta build. Apart from possibly the warden, who obviously has 0 interest in PVP, these aren't questers.

I never got close to killing that tank. The thing you're failing to realize is that he has 60k hp, and a burst heal that heals for 25k with a 5k+ hot attached to it. Getting him down to 50% HP puts him at the value of my maximum HP. His undeath is kicked in for 15% mitigation by the time he is at the value of my maximum HP. One single cast of his burst heal is equivalent to 4-5 GCDS of my spammable + LA/bash weaving. I didn't choose to focus this tank either - in the current meta, the 3-5 second windows I had in between being forced to interrupt his rez attempts are in no way adequate to put down another player with 30k+ HP who is in fact using a proper PVP build.

I didn't chase them down - I actually tried to ride past this warden and got dismounted by him, before his group proceeded to relentlessly chase me for however many minutes this actually took. I wouldn't even bother picking a fight with a 60k hp warden typically because the burst heal is grossly imbalanced, but here it was either fight back or die.

The last part of your comment indicates that you're assuming I'm some toxic elitist who preys on casuals and doesn't help people. I've literally spent hundreds of hours creating informative content, answering questions on stream, responding to pms in game, even doing stormhaven training sessions to help people learn how to PVP. I'm all for educating people so that they can improve. One of the best ways to improve is to actually fight better players, so that you can understand what they're doing to perform better than you.

React · January 2024

CrazyKitty wrote: »

React wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

React wrote: »

This behavior is becoming increasingly more common. Players build these unkillable tanks with 50k-60k HP, and do nothing but spam resurrect people.

There is no counterplay to this. You can't kill them, and there is no consequence for them when you interrupt them - in fact they get rewarded because they receive CC immunity after being bashed, which prevents you from following up with a stun. They'll just sit there endlessly spamming rez on anybody that dies, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Resurrection should have some sort of penalty for being interrupted. For example, if you attempt to rez someone and you get interrupted, there should be a cooldown of something like 15 or 30 seconds until you're able to attempt a rez again. Perhaps being interrupted again within a minute would double that cooldown. You also should not receive CC immunity when you are interrupted while resurrecting a player in PVP. There is no reason you should be rewarded for being interrupted performing an action that costs you no resources.

We've already got cooldowns on camps of 5 minutes per player, this behavior is similarly impactful and has no cooldown or counterplay whatsoever.

I bashed this person 37 times.

https://youtu.be/mtndHQfFh_E

What is rez spamming? We can only rez one person at a time, and it takes time. A player can't attack or use any skills while rezzing another player, so what's the problem?

The problem is that there is no counterplay to a person who is doing this. When a player is built in this manner, they aren't taking a risk by going for a rez - they get rewarded with CC immunity for being interrupted and can continually attempt to rez. The lack of a cooldown of any sort between attempts means that they can be attempting to do this as fast as once every 3-5 seconds, depending on how quickly you interrupted them.

It doesn't matter that they're not casting skills while doing this. They can have hots rolling, defensive ults active, etc while making each attempt. The risk vs reward of bringing a player back into the fight and being given free CC immunity for being interrupted is not at all balanced.

Isn't it the same mechanic for a player trying to burn siege? Or a player that breaks free?

I get your point, and it is annoying, but I fear your suggestion would have unwanted side effects to game play other than just when a player is rezzing another player.

Not to mention that ZOS doesn't have much of a history of implementing suggestions made by the player base, no matter how good or bad the suggestions may be.

It isn't the same as breaking free from a stun or burning siege, no.

This would be a PVP only thing. As far as I am aware, you cannot be interrupted from a rez in PVE. You can only be stunned out of a rez, or physically pushed by a mob out of a rez. These are two separate mechanics.

I did actually make the "increase the melee range of all 5m abilities by 2m" suggestion to combat location desync, which they adopted several patches later in 2022. So they do listen sometimes.

Freilauftomate · January 2024

Freilauftomate wrote: »

Of course i have no idea what was really going on in this fight, i just saw a short clip and assumed the op was there to farm some noobs. Sorry if i was wrong.

Again, i am sorry if i misread the situation. But you didn't seem very bothered by the 2 players in "proper PvP builds", they all had a pretty low level (cp and alliance rank) and they didn't look like they were playing as a team. Maybe i should have watched the video again at a slower speed.

I know very well who you are, and i am very thankful for your work. Especially in this forum. I didn't want to trigger you, or insult you in any way.

But you can't deny that some of the best players in this game intentionally create situations where they can farm new players. For whatever reason. I am not even saying it's wrong. But it's a little sad. At least for victims like me, who get ulti dumped by a full group when they are trying to wave their hands to say hello

Solariken · January 2024

What about giving the resurrection channel a magicka cost? Make it significant, such that a successful rez brings the caster from 100% to like 40%. Then it'd be harder to "spam" rez and stay alive at the same time.

React · January 2024

Freilauftomate wrote: »

Freilauftomate wrote: »

Of course i have no idea what was really going on in this fight, i just saw a short clip and assumed the op was there to farm some noobs. Sorry if i was wrong.

Again, i am sorry if i misread the situation. But you didn't seem very bothered by the 2 players in "proper PvP builds", they all had a pretty low level (cp and alliance rank) and they didn't look like they were playing as a team. Maybe i should have watched the video again at a slower speed.

I know very well who you are, and i am very thankful for your work. Especially in this forum. I didn't want to trigger you, or insult you in any way.

But you can't deny that some of the best players in this game intentionally create situations where they can farm new players. For whatever reason. I am not even saying it's wrong. But it's a little sad. At least for victims like me, who get ulti dumped by a full group when they are trying to wave their hands to say hello

I think if I slowed it down, you'd see that I was taking quite a bit of damage from these other two players and I remained fairly low on resources from dealing with that damage throughout the engagement.

But sure, that is fair. I certainly won't pass up an opportunity for a fight against a large group of extremely inexperienced players. Ultimately though, you should understand what you're signing up for when entering a PVP environment. Being on the other side of this 8 years ago or so is what motivated me to become better at the game, I'd certainly hope for at least some people that is how they perceive it.

React · January 2024

Solariken wrote: »

What about giving the resurrection channel a magicka cost? Make it significant, such that a successful rez brings the caster from 100% to like 40%. Then it'd be harder to "spam" rez and stay alive at the same time.

This could make sense as well, although I know that it will concern people as it might impact the PVE side of the game, where as a cooldown wouldn't since you cannot be interrupted in PVE, only stunned out or physically pushed out by NPC collision.

gariondavey · January 2024

React is right
Being able to do this and just stand there picking up relics on tanks in bgs is absurd and doesn't contribute to good pvp.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 2024

gariondavey wrote: »

React is right
Being able to do this and just stand there picking up relics on tanks in bgs is absurd and doesn't contribute to good pvp.

Both scenarios are literally a war of attrition. You won't kill the tank short of a coordinated group ulti dump, so you're basically forced to park a player in your group on bash duty until one of the participating parties gets bored and gives up.

It's not fun, it's not balanced, and it's obnoxious to fight against.

And sure, part of the problem is the mind bogglingly bad state of balance when it comes to tank builds - being able to obtain single digit damage taken percentages is simply broken.

However, the fact that you can just throw your head at the wall over and over again to rez or pick up the relic without consequence is also silly.

Arcanasx · January 2024

They could use battle spirit to implement some kind of resurrection cooldown if you've been interrupted in an attempt. So actually dying has more of an impact instead of being a mild inconvenience, if you happen to have player numbers on your side.

It wouldn't surprise me if resurrection spam is enabled because of PvE reasons, just like why we have obnoxious health scaling defenses as well now.