Why is magsorc getting so much hate in pvp right now?

Bushido2513 · December 2023

FoJul wrote: »

Nyseto wrote: »

Everyone says it sucks, I thought everything is well balanced in eso. Is it the tanky meta or what?

Yo, magsorc is really strong, I don't know what person has told you otherwise.

If you give magsorc a burst heal that fits on one bar, Magsorc will be too strong.

I think if I wanted to have the most fun and the most kills in Cyrodil. I choose magsorc. As you can nuke someone shield and streak 7 times and dark deal all your mag back back.

To say magsorc sucks, just means your out of touch when it comes to PvP.

I really enjoy magsorc but I also just accept things about the meta that shouldn't be a thing and just try to work around them as best I can.

Sorc in general, fun

Sorc against, meta, cheese, etc. Your fun level may vary greatly depending on what you think of as fun.

DrNukenstein · December 2023

Idinuse wrote: »

It's because Stamina thinks everything is as cheap as Stamina skills and with Stamina build's endless resources. Not applicable on Magicka builds though, let me tell you. And with the ridiculous gap closers so called "Melee" weapons and stamina classes have, streak can be more of a self trapping than "controlling a fight". You end up drained of mag while being dawnbroken/brawled/executed/spin for win etc. (Just a tad of hyperbole).

I have seen people spam gap closers on the streaking sorcs. Sometimes it really does work. I don't do that because I recognize gap close spam as a huge trap.

More realistically they will stam themselves, get stunned because cc immunity wore off during the chase and then get nuked dead when the sorc does a streak with a 180 and drops some damage on them. It really happens, and it's funny when you see it happen. You'll see someone spam their expensive stam costing gap closer like 4 times as if that's a good idea, then get stunned and dropped.

Any one have any footage of someone with (just) major expedition actually chasing down a streaking tweaker?

Turtle_Bot · December 2023

If I had the ability to record it, I would show you the DK + Plar that chased me from bleakers to aleswell using only RaT, all the while keeping up pressure and damage from beam, fossilize, whip, etc. (Zoals + slippery CP + LoS being clutch for not dying during that chase).

Note: I am a MAGsorc, not a stamsorc, so I don't have the natural movement speed that comes from being a stamsorc.

The thing that needs to be considered is that for a sorc to cast dark deal, the sorc slows to walking speed (not the default running speed, but walking speed, which is the same as block move speed). Considering the number of dark deals required to recover an even remotely passable amount of magicka from that much streaking to either rebuff and/or attempt to turn and burn requires moving at that block move speed for 3-5 seconds, it is more than easy for anyone using RaT (major expedition) to catch up.

Turtle_Bot · December 2023

FoJul wrote: »

If you give magsorc a burst heal that fits on one bar, Magsorc will be too strong.

To say magsorc sucks, just means your out of touch when it comes to PvP.

That's rich coming from a NB main whos class has one of the best burst heals in the game on top of an overall superior kit...

FYI, nobody is asking for sorc to get something as busted as Offering, Coag or Polar or to get both that powerful of a burst heal as well as an overall kit that is as strong as NB/DK, but a heal that is on par with HtD, RF or Arctic (without the stun) to give sorcs at least something is all that is being asked for. Many even ask for it as the other morph of Hardened ward so sorcs have to choose to heal OR shield, not both.

Dovahmiim · December 2023

If you think sorc is bad, you are bad (lol)

Bushido2513 · December 2023

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

If I had the ability to record it, I would show you the DK + Plar that chased me from bleakers to aleswell using only RaT, all the while keeping up pressure and damage from beam, fossilize, whip, etc. (Zoals + slippery CP + LoS being clutch for not dying during that chase).

Note: I am a MAGsorc, not a stamsorc, so I don't have the natural movement speed that comes from being a stamsorc.

The thing that needs to be considered is that for a sorc to cast dark deal, the sorc slows to walking speed (not the default running speed, but walking speed, which is the same as block move speed). Considering the number of dark deals required to recover an even remotely passable amount of magicka from that much streaking to either rebuff and/or attempt to turn and burn requires moving at that block move speed for 3-5 seconds, it is more than easy for anyone using RaT (major expedition) to catch up.

Can say that this has happened to me many a time as well. You can build around it but sorc doesn't have much to give up so you end up with resource or damage issues other classes don't have.

In this same chase scenario you have to deal with garbage heals so even a little damage from a pursuer hurts that much more. I'm not saying I can't find a video right now where the sorc turns and overloads one or both pursuers while getting crit surge heals but more saying that the two chasing could be mediocre meta builds and still easily stretch the limits of a skilled sorc and I'd like to see that scenario be a little more even.

DrNukenstein · December 2023

If other class burst heals gave two damage buffs and a ton of sustain just for using your heal (which does cost less than other class heals) they would need a cast time and tooltip reduction too.

As a hit and run enthusiast myself, I think that would be a great deal for any class and make the game more fun. I mean, it's kind of mind boggling that here we have the template for a fun, healthy, balanced, and best of all rewarding to successfully use heal and the request is to make it work just like the spammable burst heals that let people turn their brains off if they can sustain them. Other games make healing risky and rewarding, and they don't have the stalemate problems this game has.

Quackery · December 2023

Magsorcs are completely useless, I barely see anyone playing it anymore. You have arcanists that pretty much do the same thing but have INSANELY better shields, especially the disgusting ultimate that lets them walk around for 15-20 seconds without taking damage while being pummeled. Magsorcs are a joke!

Turtle_Bot · December 2023

DrNukenstein wrote: »

If other class burst heals gave two damage buffs and a ton of sustain just for using your heal (which does cost less than other class heals) they would need a cast time and tooltip reduction too.

As a hit and run enthusiast myself, I think that would be a great deal for any class and make the game more fun. I mean, it's kind of mind boggling that here we have the template for a fun, healthy, balanced, and best of all rewarding to successfully use heal and the request is to make it work just like the spammable burst heals that let people turn their brains off if they can sustain them. Other games make healing risky and rewarding, and they don't have the stalemate problems this game has.

As much as I would like to see all healing (well all classes/abilities in general) be brought to that balanced risk/reward state that dark deal has, I also realise that ZOS will never do this because of the clear backlash they would get from 99% of the player-base over the changes required to do this and that to make this balanced state of risk/reward abilities work, it would require an actually flawlessly functioning game that doesn't have bugs/lag/desyncs/etc.

Imagine if Coag, offering, polar/arctic, HtD, resistant flesh, etc all had flat, non-scaling heals that had a 1 second cast time (or required keeping a very easily killed pet alive) to use them where you couldn't block cast, dodge cancel and got slowed to a crawl. The outcry over this change would be so massive it would even make the U35 outrage pale in comparison, even if they had additional benefits on those abilities (not that coag/offering/polar/arctic really needs anything else).

It would be much simpler (at least until we have a flawlessly functional game) to just bring all classes healing options to the same level than it would be to try and completely rework and rebalance all healing abilities to have that risk/reward component to using them.

Hence why the majority just ask for sorc to get a proper burst heal not tied to killable pets or the cast time of dark deal (which is supposed to be for sustain, not a burst heal, it's just shoe-horned into being the burst heal because the pets are literally that bad for PvP outside of extremely niche scenarios).

Especially once NB got Offering and everyone got mist form and the abundance of easily accessible movement speed increase options, there was no reason to not give sorc a standard burst heal ability that's not tied to pets/cast times at the same time. Especially as there's no reason for the self and group heals to both be locked behind the pets (clannfear/matriarch respectively). One of these 2 heals should have been moved off the pets and onto another skill.

I've stated multiple times that if ZOS and others are worried about shields being combined with a viable burst heal would be too strong, then make 1 of the shield morphs into the heal, so that there is a choice required, either take the shield or the heal, but cannot have both at the same time. Besides, if sorc had a proper burst heal on another ability (say regen ward, now being a heal instead of a shield), they could remove the burst heal component from dark conversion/morphs and it could finally be used for its intended purpose of being a sustain/buff ability instead of trying to function as a sustain/buff/heal all in one ability that gets very difficult to balance.

Alchimiste1 · December 2023

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

The amount of bias in this thread is actually kind of funny.

First of all, magsorc damage is not bad, its actually pretty good. Its survivability is what hinders it. The reason people think magsorc has bad damage is honestly because it currently has the highest skill ceiling in the game. It's not even close fighting a good magsorc than a truly top tier magsorc.

Also, despite what most people here think magsorc is still one of the better specs for 1vX. Why you might feel its bad is because as a whole 1vX is more challenging than ever when all you run into are mdw and vate ice builds. 1vXing on anything these days feels insane. Most of you guys are also comparing it to nb 1vX, which admittedly is the best 1vX class currently. But in terms of 1vX rankings msorc isn't at the low end by any means. Simply put it just takes someone who really understand spacing and their burst timing.

This is not exactly true regarding 1vx depending on what you consider a viable or fun 1vx. NB will have more potential to just stay in an area and deal heavy damage while avoiding damage. As a magsorc you'll have to run a lot and hope your enemy hasn't invested in movement speed or a build like a tanky Arcanist that can still do damage and run you out of resources. There are a lot of ways to explain this but I'll simply say that if you take the same outnumbered fight and just try it with a NB then a sorc you'll see a big difference in ability to stay in the fight vs just running around. And I'm not saying both can't win the fight but just saying for some it's not but as fun to have to run around and hope your enemy isn't either fast, which is easily achieved, a meta high damage/ mitigation build, know how to roll well, etc. These things would still trouble the NB but not by as much of a factor because they have higher more reliable damage and healing by a large factor.

Yes, can you roll up on 2 or three randoms and blow them out of the water as a sorc, sure, but what were talking about her is when you run up on one or two people that have even a degree of experience and meta builds. The sorcerer kit starts to really show limitations fairly quickly.

Literally nothing that you wrote contradicts anything that I wrote before. I already said nb is the best solo 1vX class rn.
Magsorc is not bad for 1vX compared to other class in fact its on the upper end. Also, nb is not a class that can just sit and tank people 1vX, I don't think any class can really do that anymore like they could in the past. The reason why both msor, ssorc, and nb are classes that I consider some of the best for 1vX is because they have the mobility/escape tools. Furthermore, nb and sorc have some of the best damage for 1vX. The difference is sorc is less forgiving and so you really always have to have an escape route in mind. SPACING is the most important think to learn for sorc solo play. the meta builds right now are really all melee anyways.

Let me be clear; my only point is that its disingenuous to say that sorc has little damage. You can say that it lacks survivability/heals but damage? it's got more than enough.

Alchimiste1 · December 2023

I am hesitant to make this suggestion because I think if they did implement it, they might go overboard and make msorc too strong, but I think if the goal was to give msorc more survivability they should give magsorc a small burst heal every 10 or so seconds on hardened ward. Similar to how arcanist gets a burst heal on their shield. I think it be a nice change however it could easily make them far too strong if the heal is too big. You'd really have to mess around with the numbers. I think that would be better than giving the class a burst heal.

Turtle_Bot · December 2023

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I am hesitant to make this suggestion because I think if they did implement it, they might go overboard and make msorc too strong, but I think if the goal was to give msorc more survivability they should give magsorc a small burst heal every 10 or so seconds on hardened ward. Similar to how arcanist gets a burst heal on their shield. I think it be a nice change however it could easily make them far too strong if the heal is too big. You'd really have to mess around with the numbers. I think that would be better than giving the class a burst heal.

I'd be fine with messing around with the numbers, but the thing is, we won't know anything for certain either way and will never have the chance to even attempt to find those correct numbers if we keep hesitating and continue to flat out refuse to even consider testing the idea of giving sorc a burst heal not tied to pets/cast times.

I'd much rather test it out for a patch to know for sure that the heal tooltip would have to be like 70-80% value of HtD* because it would be too strong otherwise or it would be fine having what is essentially HtD* as a burst heal in its kit, than to just never test it out and just keep blindly refusing to allow sorc any access at all to what is arguably currently the strongest defensive mechanic right now (that being block casting/dodge canceling heals) that all other classes have access to including the other highly mobile/evasive/high damage class that is supposed to be bad at healing/defense (NB).

Also, by testing it out for a patch, we could also figure out if wards + heals combined (well as separate abilities still, but the mechanical interactions of wards + heals via multiple ability casts) would be too strong (meaning the heal would have to be the other morph of hardened ward) or if it would be strong, but not OP (could replace encase with it).

Considering sorcs current bar space woes, a burst heal that is just a burst heal would still probably be a struggle to fit onto a build. Not that it couldn't be done, but something would have to be dropped for it since the heal would be separate from dark exchange.

Note:
* I only mention HtD since it's essentially a generic burst heal without really any added effects that alter its healing values, it could be replaced with any 'insert generic scaling off damage self burst heal' ability in the game.

Alchimiste1 · December 2023

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

I am hesitant to make this suggestion because I think if they did implement it, they might go overboard and make msorc too strong, but I think if the goal was to give msorc more survivability they should give magsorc a small burst heal every 10 or so seconds on hardened ward. Similar to how arcanist gets a burst heal on their shield. I think it be a nice change however it could easily make them far too strong if the heal is too big. You'd really have to mess around with the numbers. I think that would be better than giving the class a burst heal.

I'd be fine with messing around with the numbers, but the thing is, we won't know anything for certain either way and will never have the chance to even attempt to find those correct numbers if we keep hesitating and continue to flat out refuse to even consider testing the idea of giving sorc a burst heal not tied to pets/cast times.

I'd much rather test it out for a patch to know for sure that the heal tooltip would have to be like 70-80% value of HtD* because it would be too strong otherwise or it would be fine having what is essentially HtD* as a burst heal in its kit, than to just never test it out and just keep blindly refusing to allow sorc any access at all to what is arguably currently the strongest defensive mechanic right now (that being block casting/dodge canceling heals) that all other classes have access to including the other highly mobile/evasive/high damage class that is supposed to be bad at healing/defense (NB).

Also, by testing it out for a patch, we could also figure out if wards + heals combined (well as separate abilities still, but the mechanical interactions of wards + heals via multiple ability casts) would be too strong (meaning the heal would have to be the other morph of hardened ward) or if it would be strong, but not OP (could replace encase with it).

Considering sorcs current bar space woes, a burst heal that is just a burst heal would still probably be a struggle to fit onto a build. Not that it couldn't be done, but something would have to be dropped for it since the heal would be separate from dark exchange.

Note:
* I only mention HtD since it's essentially a generic burst heal without really any added effects that alter its healing values, it could be replaced with any 'insert generic scaling off damage self burst heal' ability in the game.

fair enough

Bushido2513 · January 1

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

The amount of bias in this thread is actually kind of funny.

First of all, magsorc damage is not bad, its actually pretty good. Its survivability is what hinders it. The reason people think magsorc has bad damage is honestly because it currently has the highest skill ceiling in the game. It's not even close fighting a good magsorc than a truly top tier magsorc.

Also, despite what most people here think magsorc is still one of the better specs for 1vX. Why you might feel its bad is because as a whole 1vX is more challenging than ever when all you run into are mdw and vate ice builds. 1vXing on anything these days feels insane. Most of you guys are also comparing it to nb 1vX, which admittedly is the best 1vX class currently. But in terms of 1vX rankings msorc isn't at the low end by any means. Simply put it just takes someone who really understand spacing and their burst timing.

This is not exactly true regarding 1vx depending on what you consider a viable or fun 1vx. NB will have more potential to just stay in an area and deal heavy damage while avoiding damage. As a magsorc you'll have to run a lot and hope your enemy hasn't invested in movement speed or a build like a tanky Arcanist that can still do damage and run you out of resources. There are a lot of ways to explain this but I'll simply say that if you take the same outnumbered fight and just try it with a NB then a sorc you'll see a big difference in ability to stay in the fight vs just running around. And I'm not saying both can't win the fight but just saying for some it's not but as fun to have to run around and hope your enemy isn't either fast, which is easily achieved, a meta high damage/ mitigation build, know how to roll well, etc. These things would still trouble the NB but not by as much of a factor because they have higher more reliable damage and healing by a large factor.

Yes, can you roll up on 2 or three randoms and blow them out of the water as a sorc, sure, but what were talking about her is when you run up on one or two people that have even a degree of experience and meta builds. The sorcerer kit starts to really show limitations fairly quickly.

Literally nothing that you wrote contradicts anything that I wrote before. I already said nb is the best solo 1vX class rn.
Magsorc is not bad for 1vX compared to other class in fact its on the upper end. Also, nb is not a class that can just sit and tank people 1vX, I don't think any class can really do that anymore like they could in the past. The reason why both msor, ssorc, and nb are classes that I consider some of the best for 1vX is because they have the mobility/escape tools. Furthermore, nb and sorc have some of the best damage for 1vX. The difference is sorc is less forgiving and so you really always have to have an escape route in mind. SPACING is the most important think to learn for sorc solo play. the meta builds right now are really all melee anyways.

Let me be clear; my only point is that its disingenuous to say that sorc has little damage. You can say that it lacks survivability/heals but damage? it's got more than enough.

So I won't go back to my difference with your earlier point since you've clarified into something that sounds different than what I took from your earlier statements.

We all agree the healing is garbage. To say simply that mag sorc has damage is not the whole story. Like I said, you can roll up on low tier players and almost if not two tap them. Yes if you go by tooltips and numbers the damage is there. Soul assault and the bow ult have crazy tooltips that would seem to indicate they could kill anything but as we know damage perceived is not always equal to damage achieved.

So yes on paper sorc has damage but in practice when you compare actual damage done to different levels of opponents the numbers can vary. That's standard for all classes in all of pvp but my point is that when compared to NB for instance the difference can be quite large. Now yes of course some of that is NB healing, no doubt, but it's also how sorc can or can't lay down damage.

I wouldn't change the tooltips to be honest though I would change the skills to give more bar space. I'm fine with being a hit and run high damage class that requires skill and practice but I'd appreciate some tuning as to bar space and how the current damage is applied.

Though yes I can also say fixing healing would be very effective in giving a chance to put down existing damage. Just not sure I want sorc to just become a NB

Luede · January 2

a good burst heal in combination with the potential damage would be a bit too much, i would rather see something like an adaptation of critical surge. If the heal were passive here, instead of a heal that only takes place on offense, the class would already be well helped

as things stand at the moment, a sorc has hardly any room for error and as soon as there are aggressive players in a 1vsx scenario, you have a huge problem because you don't get away as well with this class as most people imagine. Streak helps very little against opponents who run at the speed cap, which is what many stam players do.

Jsmalls · January 2

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Not sure how streaking 7 times is possible, let alone on top of constantly casting shield and after casting the entire burst combo.

Even building for max mag (18k health) or pure sustain (4k+ regen and not in combat) only 6 casts of streak is possible before it's no longer possible to cast the ability anymore due to being out of mag and that was without casting shields or casting a combo before that.

Even casting mist for which is significantly cheaper to use than streak (like 25% cheaper) caps out at 6 casts before you're out of magicka and have to wait for the ramping cost to reset.

Anyone saying magsorc is in that strong of a place either has zero knowledge of playing the class or thinks its still 2018 ESO where streak didn't have ramping cost.

@Turtle_Bot

It was an old passive (that I think is in the champion tree now as a star) but you could / can get an extra streak using a potion. Reduces the cost of your next ability by 80% bringing that last streak down to a manageable value.

Bushido2513 · January 2

Luede wrote: »

a good burst heal in combination with the potential damage would be a bit too much, i would rather see something like an adaptation of critical surge. If the heal were passive here, instead of a heal that only takes place on offense, the class would already be well helped

as things stand at the moment, a sorc has hardly any room for error and as soon as there are aggressive players in a 1vsx scenario, you have a huge problem because you don't get away as well with this class as most people imagine. Streak helps very little against opponents who run at the speed cap, which is what many stam players do.

Thinking about a burst heal now, I'm actually not sure how it would or wouldn't change things depending on implementation.

So if you make dark deal a no cast time heal you'd probably have to lower or remove the resource return in which case damage has to be lost to recovery.

If you just change some skill to be a burst heal or make it so the bird can't die you've still got bar space issues on where to put the heal.

I like the crit surge idea a bit as in it it had a base hot but maybe gave a small tick of healing when you crit or something.

Regarding 1vx not only do you not have room for error, you might have no problem recovering from a mistake but just not be able to kill anyone. Not that you should be able to kill everyone but this tank Meta is no fun for sorc either in 1vx

Turtle_Bot · January 3

Jsmalls wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Not sure how streaking 7 times is possible, let alone on top of constantly casting shield and after casting the entire burst combo.

Even building for max mag (18k health) or pure sustain (4k+ regen and not in combat) only 6 casts of streak is possible before it's no longer possible to cast the ability anymore due to being out of mag and that was without casting shields or casting a combo before that.

Even casting mist for which is significantly cheaper to use than streak (like 25% cheaper) caps out at 6 casts before you're out of magicka and have to wait for the ramping cost to reset.

Anyone saying magsorc is in that strong of a place either has zero knowledge of playing the class or thinks its still 2018 ESO where streak didn't have ramping cost.

@Turtle_Bot

It was an old passive (that I think is in the champion tree now as a star) but you could / can get an extra streak using a potion. Reduces the cost of your next ability by 80% bringing that last streak down to a manageable value.

I know the CP you're thinking of. I've tried it out multiple times and what hurts that CP the most is the reliance on potions to proc it and their inherently long cooldown that leaves that CP being extremely inconsistent.

You could try a dedicated potion cooldown build with it I guess, but then you lose out on a lot of other things such as sets, procs, enchants, buffs, etc and that still leaves it on a 20-25 second cooldown (so it's still quite inconsistent which is not good for a dedicated build that sacrifices so much just for that specific interaction).

IZZEFlameLash · January 3

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Not sure how streaking 7 times is possible, let alone on top of constantly casting shield and after casting the entire burst combo.

Even building for max mag (18k health) or pure sustain (4k+ regen and not in combat) only 6 casts of streak is possible before it's no longer possible to cast the ability anymore due to being out of mag and that was without casting shields or casting a combo before that.

Even casting mist for which is significantly cheaper to use than streak (like 25% cheaper) caps out at 6 casts before you're out of magicka and have to wait for the ramping cost to reset.

Anyone saying magsorc is in that strong of a place either has zero knowledge of playing the class or thinks its still 2018 ESO where streak didn't have ramping cost.

@Turtle_Bot

It was an old passive (that I think is in the champion tree now as a star) but you could / can get an extra streak using a potion. Reduces the cost of your next ability by 80% bringing that last streak down to a manageable value.

I know the CP you're thinking of. I've tried it out multiple times and what hurts that CP the most is the reliance on potions to proc it and their inherently long cooldown that leaves that CP being extremely inconsistent.

You could try a dedicated potion cooldown build with it I guess, but then you lose out on a lot of other things such as sets, procs, enchants, buffs, etc and that still leaves it on a 20-25 second cooldown (so it's still quite inconsistent which is not good for a dedicated build that sacrifices so much just for that specific interaction).

Potion cooldown build isn't worth it if you aren't NB and Argonian imo. You'd lose out too much damage to face anyone competent.

Jsmalls · January 3

@Turtle_Bot

Yeah there is much better to run, especially since if 5-6 streaks didn't work, 7 probably won't help you much either. But it's how I always use to sneak in an extra streak (pre CP changes) and I knew it still existed somewhere!

Bushido2513 · January 3

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Turtle_Bot

Yeah there is much better to run, especially since if 5-6 streaks didn't work, 7 probably won't help you much either. But it's how I always use to sneak in an extra streak (pre CP changes) and I knew it still existed somewhere!

I've tested and smart streaks on the right build usually always trumps more streaks. Like for instance one or two streaks to los vs 5 streaks to exhaustion in open field

Jsmalls · January 3

@Turtle_Bot

Actually I physically just tested in game. In No CP Cyrodiil I can streak 9 times in a row from a full magicka bar, dark conversion proc'd, and used a pot. So 7 is definitely not only possible but probably happens a good amount when running.

SandandStars · January 8

My magsorc doesnt have a full magicka build, ive built into spell dmg and run a defensive set rather than relying on shield stacking & constant, unreliable bar swapping. So, with that factored in, I find I can typically do 3 streaks at most in combat until I’m dangerously low or out of magicka.

9 streaks sounds amazingly liberating/powerful, but I dont understand how the rest of a competitive magsorc build could afford it?

katorga · January 8

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

If you give magsorc a burst heal that fits on one bar, Magsorc will be too strong.

To say magsorc sucks, just means your out of touch when it comes to PvP.

That's rich coming from a NB main whos class has one of the best burst heals in the game on top of an overall superior kit...

FYI, nobody is asking for sorc to get something as busted as Offering, Coag or Polar or to get both that powerful of a burst heal as well as an overall kit that is as strong as NB/DK, but a heal that is on par with HtD, RF or Arctic (without the stun) to give sorcs at least something is all that is being asked for. Many even ask for it as the other morph of Hardened ward so sorcs have to choose to heal OR shield, not both.

I've switch to NB from Sorc for pvp. Sorc has just fallen too far behind:

- NB is faster, better movement speed
- Better bar space efficiency, most required buffs are passively applied
- Burst skill hits around 50% higher
- Better healing

Shields are useless in the modern game, unless it is an Arcanist shield which is around 50% larger and includes a burst heal.

Quethrosar · January 8

all i know is i have over 25 pen and still just tickle most people.
they can dodge everything so easily even if they do not roll.

moo_2021 · January 8

Quackery wrote: »

Magsorcs are completely useless, I barely see anyone playing it anymore. You have arcanists that pretty much do the same thing but have INSANELY better shields, especially the disgusting ultimate that lets them walk around for 15-20 seconds without taking damage while being pummeled. Magsorcs are a joke!

It's great in small areas especially when teams are fighting each other in melee range.

Streak into a mess fight, stun everyone, hit a few guys, streak away, wait for immunity to wear off, repeat.

I barely kill anything but it's fun, and much easier than magplar's charge spam.