Conflicting advice for MagDK

Udrath · December 2023

I think running dw swords/resto - burning spell weave front bar, clever alch back bar, blood spawn and a mythic is very user friendly. All infused jewerly with weapon damage, and warrior mundas to stack with dk access to minor brutality.

You can quite easily get 8k-9k weapon damage consistently. Maybe use markyn with a spell cost reduction if your sustain needs it and be Breton/imperial.

Then it’s just a matter of learning to effectively rotate through your skills, and not burning through your magicka by not wasting it on things like constantly rebuffing/debuffing when you don’t need too and using your ultimate often. Eventually you’ll learn the flow of the class

If you dragon flight use balrogh, if you use corrosive use bloodspawn or molag Kena.

gariondavey · December 2023

fred4 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Trickery, like Bloodspawn, includes ulti-gen. That's why DKs run it. The other buffs also don't overlap with anything DK already has, so it's all good. Does it make you consistently tanky? Nope. It just feels good when your ultimates come back quicker on that class.

Balorgh is questionable on a DK. Corrosive Armor gives full penetration to your direct damage anyway and DKs tend to use their ultimates offensively, defensively, and for sustain, whereas Balorgh is mainly just an offensive tool. It can work, but it can go to waste, and it's a sustain loss, which indirectly nerfs your damage on a DK as you may need to find sustain elsewhere. It's just not the clear win on that class as it is on, say, a nightblade.

I'm surprised by two recommendations for Elf Bane, because DOTs already last super long these days and can be purged. This ain't PvE, this is PvP. IMO the only reason to consider Elf Bane is to buff fire-based siege weapons (if that still works) and to extend Magma Shell to 18s, to which I would say only do it, if you want to go all out on a (near) perma-Magma Shell build, such as with the ulti-gen vamp drain, maybe Bloodspawn, Major Heroism + Minor Heroism, possibly with Oakensoul and the new DK set from Endless Archive. That might make for an easy-play build. Otherwise use Corrosive Armor, no Elf Bane and, well, learn to play. That will probably serve you better in the long run.

One issue everyone has as a beginner, or even just when playing a new build, is adjusting your expectations. I've played with some good players, players who are better than me, and been frequently surprised how carefully they play. Yes, they kill people, but they also run, and line-of-sight, and try to bait people into favorable situations. In fact, they may spend most of their time doing that and then only show you the highlight reel on YouTube. As a tanky melee class you favor built-up terrain, rocks and trees where you can line-of-sight. You may want to bait other players into, say, the ubiquitous resource tower where Streak loses some of it's effectiveness and where nightblades without Shadow Image have no place to hide from you.

Elfbane is very strong for a brawling dk. Ifykyk.

Can you explain how / why that is for the benefit of everyone?

You can be extremely tanky while still generating ult in magma shell, provide considerable shields to your group, apply significant dots to enemies, and stay up on the offensive in people's faces locking them down.

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

taugrim wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Essence Thief is known as a duelling set. I wouldn't run it in open world, nor in BGs. You might make it work, but you won't make your life easy wearing that set IMO.

^ This, so much.

I tried Essence Thief several weeks ago when the ring was selling on The Golden.

I found Essence Thief to be incredibly frustrating to use. Having to pick up the green glowing thing on the ground was not only tedious and would force me to go to a spot I don't want to go (e.g. because the fight is moving in the opposite direction). Even worse: sometimes it would spawn on areas that were unreachable or at a different Z-axis (elevation).

essence thief is still miles better now than it was when it originally came out

when it first came out the little spot you needed to run over always would spawn like 20 meters away from the target unless it hit a wall, it was virtually impossible to use in melee unless you were say in a tunnel lol

that said, i even after the change i would agree that i still found it annoying to use that i had to actually go pick up the buff instead of it just granting it to me directly (i would even be ok with nerfing the buff just a tad if i didnt have to go pick it up)

fred4 · December 2023

gariondavey wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Trickery, like Bloodspawn, includes ulti-gen. That's why DKs run it. The other buffs also don't overlap with anything DK already has, so it's all good. Does it make you consistently tanky? Nope. It just feels good when your ultimates come back quicker on that class.

Balorgh is questionable on a DK. Corrosive Armor gives full penetration to your direct damage anyway and DKs tend to use their ultimates offensively, defensively, and for sustain, whereas Balorgh is mainly just an offensive tool. It can work, but it can go to waste, and it's a sustain loss, which indirectly nerfs your damage on a DK as you may need to find sustain elsewhere. It's just not the clear win on that class as it is on, say, a nightblade.

I'm surprised by two recommendations for Elf Bane, because DOTs already last super long these days and can be purged. This ain't PvE, this is PvP. IMO the only reason to consider Elf Bane is to buff fire-based siege weapons (if that still works) and to extend Magma Shell to 18s, to which I would say only do it, if you want to go all out on a (near) perma-Magma Shell build, such as with the ulti-gen vamp drain, maybe Bloodspawn, Major Heroism + Minor Heroism, possibly with Oakensoul and the new DK set from Endless Archive. That might make for an easy-play build. Otherwise use Corrosive Armor, no Elf Bane and, well, learn to play. That will probably serve you better in the long run.

One issue everyone has as a beginner, or even just when playing a new build, is adjusting your expectations. I've played with some good players, players who are better than me, and been frequently surprised how carefully they play. Yes, they kill people, but they also run, and line-of-sight, and try to bait people into favorable situations. In fact, they may spend most of their time doing that and then only show you the highlight reel on YouTube. As a tanky melee class you favor built-up terrain, rocks and trees where you can line-of-sight. You may want to bait other players into, say, the ubiquitous resource tower where Streak loses some of it's effectiveness and where nightblades without Shadow Image have no place to hide from you.

Elfbane is very strong for a brawling dk. Ifykyk.

Can you explain how / why that is for the benefit of everyone?

You can be extremely tanky while still generating ult in magma shell, provide considerable shields to your group, apply significant dots to enemies, and stay up on the offensive in people's faces locking them down.

OK, fair enough. It's about Magma Shell and you're right about the ultigen from this patch onwards. I guess people will lean into that morph more now.

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

Udrath wrote: »

I think running dw swords/resto - burning spell weave front bar, clever alch back bar, blood spawn and a mythic is very user friendly. All infused jewerly with weapon damage, and warrior mundas to stack with dk access to minor brutality.

You can quite easily get 8k-9k weapon damage consistently. Maybe use markyn with a spell cost reduction if your sustain needs it and be Breton/imperial.

Then it’s just a matter of learning to effectively rotate through your skills, and not burning through your magicka by not wasting it on things like constantly rebuffing/debuffing when you don’t need too and using your ultimate often. Eventually you’ll learn the flow of the class

If you dragon flight use balrogh, if you use corrosive use bloodspawn or molag Kena.

Is Bloodspawn not recommended if I use flight? I’ve thought about using BSW (hadn’t thought of clever alchemist). Daedric seems generally nice but I’m not totally married to it (I’d like something perhaps less luck based).

Udrath · December 2023

tldr; you can use anything that gives YOU better results

@SmellyUnlimited you can use whatever you want honestly, even grothdaar isn’t bad either. I just say balrogh for a little extra penetration and damage. New moon or BSW are good with clever. Minor brutality 10% is a pretty significant multiplier on top of those.

My current stamplar can sit at 8k spell damage because of minor sorcery—of course with a keep buff in CP enabled with major/minor sorcery up. But when I proc my weapon glyph and use balrogh with clever alch it can go well over 10k because of multipliers. This makes my healing really strong alongside the damage.

Granted I have 3k penetration, but major/minor breach/balrogh cover that easily. Every 660 pen is only 1% damage increase anyways. I rather have 1k more spell damage than 10k penetration if I had to choose.

Pretty much every alcast build seems to offer the highest tooltips possible and why I use some of them or a least try to reach the same stats with different sets. Only thing I will change is to swap skills around on them that suit me.

On another note usually building to strengthen any of the classes multipliers (minor buffs/passives) has always been pretty reliable. Some proc sets are undeniably strong in the right scenario though or if you’re trying to be a bomber type, so it really comes to your preferences and testing. I prefer just being a brawler with very high tooltips. Use whatever you think will benefit the class you’re playing and the style you want to play it.

Rhaegar75 · December 2023

what would you use with Draugrkin as a front bar?

I'm intrigued by the extra damage to buff each dot but not really sure what to use with it. Unleashed could work well I guess?

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

With clever alchemist, do you run into problems when you pop a potion to start the fight, but the cooldown is still rolling when you may want to pop one “during” the fight? Is it typically spell power pots you’d use to proc alchemist? Or just any pot? I’m just curious about how to apply clever alchemist effectively in a fight.

fred4 · December 2023

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

what would you use with Draugrkin as a front bar?

I'm intrigued by the extra damage to buff each dot but not really sure what to use with it. Unleashed could work well I guess?

Charged weapon. Crushing Shock. Possibly Ele Sus. Poison enchant. There was a magblade build going around a while ago that I suspect uses Draugrkin + Winterborn, opening with Snipe from the back bar. I'm not sure you really want to pair it with something aggressive, though, outside of being a ganker.

Necrotech_Master · December 2023

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

With clever alchemist, do you run into problems when you pop a potion to start the fight, but the cooldown is still rolling when you may want to pop one “during” the fight? Is it typically spell power pots you’d use to proc alchemist? Or just any pot? I’m just curious about how to apply clever alchemist effectively in a fight.

you can use any potion to proc clever, potion base cooldown is 45 sec and uptime on clever is 20 seconds

so unless your building potion cooldown reduction your most likely going to be waiting on the potion cooldown

i think you also have to be in combat for it to actually give you the bonus too, so it doesnt allow pre-buffing

this set does not have any cooldown, as that is more controlled by potion cooldown

gariondavey · December 2023

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

what would you use with Draugrkin as a front bar?

I'm intrigued by the extra damage to buff each dot but not really sure what to use with it. Unleashed could work well I guess?

Either stack dots and status effects with draugrkin front bar so you have as many instances of damage possible

Or

Force pulse on draugrkin lightning fb with master dw or maelstrom 2h back bar
Then a 5 pc of your choice + mythic + 1 trainee/1 magma
Or
Monster set + mythic jewel + 2 trainee + 1 druid braid

SmellyUnlimited · December 2023

gariondavey wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

what would you use with Draugrkin as a front bar?

I'm intrigued by the extra damage to buff each dot but not really sure what to use with it. Unleashed could work well I guess?

Either stack dots and status effects with draugrkin front bar so you have as many instances of damage possible

Or

Force pulse on draugrkin lightning fb with master dw or maelstrom 2h back bar
Then a 5 pc of your choice + mythic + 1 trainee/1 magma
Or
Monster set + mythic jewel + 2 trainee + 1 druid braid

This is a whole new level of hybridization that I can’t fathom yet. I’m still stuck in the mindset from when I played 5 years ago where there was stamina, and then there was Magicka, and never the two shall meet. Does this sort of hybridization exist in PvE as well?

gariondavey · December 2023

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

what would you use with Draugrkin as a front bar?

I'm intrigued by the extra damage to buff each dot but not really sure what to use with it. Unleashed could work well I guess?

Either stack dots and status effects with draugrkin front bar so you have as many instances of damage possible

Or

Force pulse on draugrkin lightning fb with master dw or maelstrom 2h back bar
Then a 5 pc of your choice + mythic + 1 trainee/1 magma
Or
Monster set + mythic jewel + 2 trainee + 1 druid braid

This is a whole new level of hybridization that I can’t fathom yet. I’m still stuck in the mindset from when I played 5 years ago where there was stamina, and then there was Magicka, and never the two shall meet. Does this sort of hybridization exist in PvE as well?

Yeah, for example on a mag sorc people are running frags + daedric prey + pets, but also are running stampede + hurricane + fighters guild trap
So they run a few stam dots even on a "mag" spec, and vice versa. It allows you to use what would normally be "useless off-stat"