The problem is that proc sets aren't created equally. Some are way too overtuned. A solution would be CP No Proc, as it would eliminate the massive crutches that most people use but also allow enough build diversity to create interesting fights.

Going in with a bad proc set is just as bad as going in with no proc set when things are so skewed, and when everyone is running the same thing, fights get boring.

Having CP No Proc as an option would at least give people who want to feel powerful a place to play.

Essentially the exact opposite of the OP suggestion.

Th original no proc was to test whether it made Cyrodiil run better, for the engine not to have n extra test to perform (forgive me if that wording is inaccurate).

As I recall, no procs didn’t make a difference to performance, but it was lovely to fight other players rather than ridiculous armor sets. Going forward, I wonder whether it would be feasible to make a curated list and include sets that aren’t what most players probably think of as proc sets. IMHO, sets that should be allowed enhance player abilities, like Markman’s Crest and Burning Spellweave. On the other end of the spectrum are sets that push or pull players, like Dark Convergence, which was made even worse by being bugged for a while and then sets that produce their own OP effects, like Plaguebreak. There would undoubtedly be debate on what sets belong or don’t, but perhaps a list of more usable sets would be the result and more players would enjoy it.

As for whether CP or not, I can see arguments either way. While personally, I prefer CP, if being no CP would encourage more new players to take part, I think that is important.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

pvp would be dead to me if all of it was made no proc

and what would you do with all of the proc sets that specifically only work in pvp (such as VD and rallying cry)?

i think a lot of the frustration with the no proc setup is that its extremely unclear what works and what doesnt, and there are even some things that should work but dont, and some things that do work that shouldnt

personally if they want to keep the no proc, i would suggest they take it a step further and remove all gear set bonuses in that campaign

this would solve 2 issues:

1. there would be no confusion about what works and what doesnt, because none of it would work
2. without gear bonuses and cp, it would be a true test of skill and the only true way to show class imbalance

so while i personally dont like playing in no proc cause i find it boring, i think the current way its handled doesnt make a lot of sense and the confusion/lack of upkeep on a list of viable sets is what actually puts a lot of people off

I agree that it shouldn’t all be no proc (or whatever set restrictions) and you make a good point about it being confusing what sets do or don’t work.

Your suggestion could be interesting and eliminates the problem both of knowing what does or doesn’t work and then having to acquire gear for a no proc build rather than wear gear they aren’t getting full benefit from. I wonder if the amount of stats would be too low for any sustainable combat though? Maybe players could all choose from the same list of predetermined stat bonuses (like GW2 battleground equivalents)? Again, I’m not proposing this for all PvP, but what might be an option perhaps better than the current no-CP no-proc.

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

pvp would be dead to me if all of it was made no proc

and what would you do with all of the proc sets that specifically only work in pvp (such as VD and rallying cry)?

i think a lot of the frustration with the no proc setup is that its extremely unclear what works and what doesnt, and there are even some things that should work but dont, and some things that do work that shouldnt

personally if they want to keep the no proc, i would suggest they take it a step further and remove all gear set bonuses in that campaign

this would solve 2 issues:

1. there would be no confusion about what works and what doesnt, because none of it would work
2. without gear bonuses and cp, it would be a true test of skill and the only true way to show class imbalance

so while i personally dont like playing in no proc cause i find it boring, i think the current way its handled doesnt make a lot of sense and the confusion/lack of upkeep on a list of viable sets is what actually puts a lot of people off

I agree that it shouldn’t all be no proc (or whatever set restrictions) and you make a good point about it being confusing what sets do or don’t work.

Your suggestion could be interesting and eliminates the problem both of knowing what does or doesn’t work and then having to acquire gear for a no proc build rather than wear gear they aren’t getting full benefit from. I wonder if the amount of stats would be too low for any sustainable combat though? Maybe players could all choose from the same list of predetermined stat bonuses (like GW2 battleground equivalents)? Again, I’m not proposing this for all PvP, but what might be an option perhaps better than the current no-CP no-proc.

i think that would be part of the point, lower sustain means fights would not stalemate or drag out for 20+ min

if you had no gear bonuses (the flat armor, armor passives, and probably enchantments/traits would be all you get), if you only used heavy armor your dmg and sustain would be garbage

if you used light armor you would get more pen bonuses but also be a glass cannon, and using medium armor would be like a good balance in between (good dmg, sustain for core combat like ccbreak and dodging, no armor penalties)

i dont think you would be able to front load all of your attributes in health either, because again your sustain would be terrible

it would be like just taking a full set of white armor with an enchant and using that for pvp (though you could gold it out if you wanted to

it would also make something like impen more important because you would be lacking cp crit resist, and with no gear bonuses theres no other way to get crit resist

mariuszeb17_ESO5 wrote: »

I see a different solution, approved pvp sets that work in both environments (nonCP and CP).
Sets should be approved by ZOS and pvp community.
The most harmful ones should be removed for example a "Wrath of Elements", "Maarselok", "Dragon's and Appetite".
Simple solution: removal from pvp environments (Battle Spirit) one parametr: "Decreases your Damage Taken by 55%" and add this to approved pvp sets.

This would not work because that same PVP community pushes the Vate destro, masters dual wield meta. What makes you think the community that enforces such a meta (it's the players who chose to run that gear in the first place) to willingly give that up over night? Lol, players enjoy cheese in this game, that's all it boils down to at the end of the day.

Regrettably I think we're expecting too much from a company that appears more than content to let the pvp community gradually fade into oblivion as numbers continue to hemorrhage.

A year or two ago when PC/NA still had population on all sides of Ravenwatch I asked a dev friend of mine if it was possible to look up the eligible sets for the campaign, and here's the thing -- HE DID JUST THAT. Came back to me with a complete list of eligible Ravenwatch sets. I immediately leaked the info to @CaperGuy 's epic thread, which meant that I was able to provide the remaining two or three sets that hadn't already been discovered by the amazing detective work of CaperGuy et al. Stuff you wouldn't necessarily suspect anyway like True sworn fury.

So when I continually ask whether ZOS could look up that stuff for us, it's because I already knew for a fact that it was possible to do just that and yet they STILL REFUSED to do that for whatever reason.

I think when we were asking for a no proc campaign the players wanting it were hoping for a no free damage campaign. That is not what we were given. Instead we were handed a scenario where if they populations ever became unbalanced the higher pop one would tank up and win by attrition given that the lower pop factions had no tools to overcome that. Since we're playing with a very custom set of procs available, all we really needed was vicious death. That's it. That would have made it more bearable.

Ah well.

Yes, and put the server resources into Grey Host.

ProudMary wrote: »

If anything I think they should go the other way, and make all PvP no proc. It's the proc sets that create so much non skill related damage and defense, and, I'm pretty sure, leads to most of the lag as well. So make PvP no proc, give us a list of the sets we can and can't use that is clear, and bring back 24 man group size and population caps of at least 200/faction.

It's definitely not the proc sets causing the lag, it's more that they openly stated Cyrodiil is still running on 2012 servers, lol.

Only proc set in pvp should be vicious death and plaguebreak. And their proc damage should be decrease like %30 for each person you're grouped with so that people can't spam it on their 40 man guilds to cheese every fight.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

No chance. Procs on No-CP melt people even faster. Like almost down to NB gank level. At least that's been my experience with this weird combo of proc + no-cp from the past.

this used to be the case before cp2.0

in the original CP system you used to get an enormous benefit from CP

in cp2.0 the bonuses are there, but most of them are pretty minimal

like you only get 700 passive pen from cp2.0, thats less than the bosmer racial bonus