My first thoughts about PvP...

Morgha_Kul · April 2014

So, I thought I'd post some initial thoughts about my experience of PvP in Elder Scrolls Online.

First, let me say I'm delighted that PvP has a purpose, that we're fighting FOR something. That there's a strategic element to it is wonderful. The PvP part of the world (Cyrodiil) is large, open and detailed, and this too is wonderful. Thus, I was rather looking forward to trying out the PvP game.

Unfortunately, I can't say I've enjoyed it. Let me describe my experience so far.

I started out, and ran through the tutorial. Siege engines! Cool, that's pretty neat. With that done, I ran to where a battle was happening. And I ran, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran....

10 minutes or so later, I finally got to the battle area. I saw a bunch of guys running around with little blue shields over their heads, but before I could do anything, I suddenly dropped dead. I didn't see anything near me, no animation, no nothing. So, with no grand soul gems at L12, I respawned - back where I started from. And I ran, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran....

Another 10 minutes or so later, I got back to the combat area. This time, instead of pausing to look over the scene, I just charged in to get somewhat close to my allies, to benefit from any area heals and to give enemies other targets. I cast one lightning bolt, and then once again instantly dropped dead. Once again, I had no idea who or what hit me. So once again I respawned, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran....

This time, I was intercepted along the way by a gang of about 30 enemy players, who instantly killed me before I could do anything. I respawned again, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran, and I ran....

This time I thought to skirt the battle, maybe pick up stragglers. As I moved kind of around the flank, I was attacked by a single enemy! He blindsided me with a charge that knocked me down, but it didn't do a lot of damage. Cool, I thought, a one on one situation, this should be good. Once I get up. While he hits me. And hits me. And hits me. Hm, I have about 20% health left. Oh, finally I'm getting up. I hit him with Destructive Clench, and hit him once with a firebolt from my staff. However, he got up almost instantly (despite the stun effect the Clench was supposed to cause), and knocked me down again, then killed me while I was lying down. So, I really didn't get a chance to do anything, because I was held (knocked down) pretty well the entire fight.

This last is one of the biggest problems with PvP in any game, the prevalence of holds, stuns and disables. So often, TOO often, players are unable to fight back, and that's not any fun. I mean, imagine going to play a game of tennis and being told you have to lie on the ground for most of the match. You probably wouldn't want to play that either.

Thus, I have to say I'm not impressed with the PvP. Granted, I've not tried much, and it looks like it has immense potential. I'm really looking forward to trying a siege, but if I'm not going to be able to even do anything against other players, I'm not sure how much fun even that will be. I'm hopeful it will improve as I level up.

Dudis · April 2014

About the running, click the (smaller) wayshrine right infront of you when you spawn and you'll be able to teleport to a much closer location (generally).

About getting instakilled by enemy zergs; use sneak and try to find your friends and engage them together. You'll actually be invisible to enemies unless they look pretty much right at you from just a few meters away.

About CC; all crowd control effects except knockdowns can be cured instantly either by rolling (roots) or by hitting your "interrupt" button (stuns etc) or throught other cleansing abilities. It's not too bad once you get used to how you have to react.

And yeah, levels play a pretty big part. You can still be viable at lower levels though, just not so much alone against level 50+ and geared chars

dietlime · April 2014

You've not even played the game long enough to understand it. In your 1v1 scenario he stood up instantly by spending a large portion of his stamina bar. You could have done the same when you were knocked down.

Gisgo · April 2014

You can fast travel and you can break CCs.
And you need much more experience, no offense.

Realize at your level you are at the very bottom of the food chain, group up, stay alive and be annoying for the enemy.

Samadhi · April 2014

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

...

This time I thought to skirt the battle, maybe pick up stragglers. As I moved kind of around the flank, I was attacked by a single enemy! He blindsided me with a charge that knocked me down, but it didn't do a lot of damage. Cool, I thought, a one on one situation, this should be good. Once I get up. While he hits me. And hits me. And hits me. Hm, I have about 20% health left. Oh, finally I'm getting up. I hit him with Destructive Clench, and hit him once with a firebolt from my staff. However, he got up almost instantly (despite the stun effect the Clench was supposed to cause), and knocked me down again, then killed me while I was lying down. So, I really didn't get a chance to do anything, because I was held (knocked down) pretty well the entire fight.

This last is one of the biggest problems with PvP in any game, the prevalence of holds, stuns and disables. So often, TOO often, players are unable to fight back, and that's not any fun. I mean, imagine going to play a game of tennis and being told you have to lie on the ground for most of the match. You probably wouldn't want to play that either.

...

If you hold right click and then click left click, you will break CC and grant yourself a temporary immunity to CC.

Morgha_Kul · May 2014

First of all, thanks to all for the helpful hints!

Alright then. Time to describe my second experience of PvP in Cyrodiil.

I had been chatting in zone about my difficulties, and a nice fellow offered to show me the ropes. I was turning in a mission I had acquired during a recon mission, so he told me to wait at the priory where I was.

While I was waiting, I noticed an enemy player doing something at the priory. I assume he was on a recon mission, or gathering a node. Either way, I wasn't interested in fighting him, so I stayed behind some rocks and waited for him to move on. He didn't and came after me.

I thought to myself that this was a chance to see how I could actually do in a one on one situation. We were both casters, though he had a clannfear and twilight out and I didn't. Either way, I thought it would be a good chance to evaluate my abilities, win or lose.

I knocked him back with Destructive Clench, knowing the stun wouldn't affect him long, but there would be a delay while he was airborne and getting up, letting me charge up a heavy staff attack. I then activated my lightning armour and started hitting him with light staff attacks and occasional lightning bolts. He retaliated with staff attacks of his own, while his pets attacked me too.

My health melted away like butter in the sun, and since my potions are L17, they did nothing to help me survive. At this point, I noticed his health had not moved AT ALL. I had done and was doing NO damage at all.

Now, I had been enjoying that I had a chance to fight back this time, but the enjoyment evaporated when I realized I would have had as much chance if I'd been lying on my face like the first time I fought someone. I mean, if I'm not going to do ANY damage, there's no point in even trying to fight back.

The question therefore becomes WHY was this happening? What power could he have been using that would make him completely immune to damage for something like 30 seconds? If there IS no such power, then why was I doing no damage? Is my damage that of a L17? As I say, I found it rather puzzling.

I mean, I can accept someone higher level having an advantage, but I have to have a CHANCE, and in this case I simply didn't. What say you all? What was going on?

sagitter · May 2014

If it can help i can say that me also started pvp at lvl 10, but the difference between a lvl 10 and a 50 or vet player are so many... First of all stats , armor factor, regens , all soft capped and than all the abilities leveled and morphed are really like night and day. So have fun , exp and sometimes try "enjoy" pvp with some friends in the road to vet. Right now there are some bad unbalances things ,like some vamps and dk abuse abilities but they will sure fix it. Use stealth and attack the targets around u level if it is possible.

LadyChaos · May 2014

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

First of all, thanks to all for the helpful hints!

Alright then. Time to describe my second experience of PvP in Cyrodiil.

I had been chatting in zone about my difficulties, and a nice fellow offered to show me the ropes. I was turning in a mission I had acquired during a recon mission, so he told me to wait at the priory where I was.

While I was waiting, I noticed an enemy player doing something at the priory. I assume he was on a recon mission, or gathering a node. Either way, I wasn't interested in fighting him, so I stayed behind some rocks and waited for him to move on. He didn't and came after me.

I thought to myself that this was a chance to see how I could actually do in a one on one situation. We were both casters, though he had a clannfear and twilight out and I didn't. Either way, I thought it would be a good chance to evaluate my abilities, win or lose.

I knocked him back with Destructive Clench, knowing the stun wouldn't affect him long, but there would be a delay while he was airborne and getting up, letting me charge up a heavy staff attack. I then activated my lightning armour and started hitting him with light staff attacks and occasional lightning bolts. He retaliated with staff attacks of his own, while his pets attacked me too.

My health melted away like butter in the sun, and since my potions are L17, they did nothing to help me survive. At this point, I noticed his health had not moved AT ALL. I had done and was doing NO damage at all.

Now, I had been enjoying that I had a chance to fight back this time, but the enjoyment evaporated when I realized I would have had as much chance if I'd been lying on my face like the first time I fought someone. I mean, if I'm not going to do ANY damage, there's no point in even trying to fight back.

The question therefore becomes WHY was this happening? What power could he have been using that would make him completely immune to damage for something like 30 seconds? If there IS no such power, then why was I doing no damage? Is my damage that of a L17? As I say, I found it rather puzzling.

I mean, I can accept someone higher level having an advantage, but I have to have a CHANCE, and in this case I simply didn't. What say you all? What was going on?

Holding your right mouse button = block.
While blocking you drain you STA pool for the most part not HP.
This is how he can take little to no damage... you can too.

You can also not get knocked down while blocking and you actually have STA.

Again higher levels give more passives, which can increase survivability as well as bypass enemy armor for example. Sounds like you are starting to get the hang of it, and in no time will be a pro enjoying the romps of Cyrodiil.

Gisgo · May 2014

I hate to say that but stick with a party if you are not a good stealther (or bring a couple of friends).

Many VRs are questing in Cyrodil because xp is hard to come and if you face them 1vs1 there isnt much that you can do.

I hope they are going to buff everyone to VR5 in Cyrodiil because i dont like soft targets (not too soft anyway).

Morgha_Kul · May 2014

No, he wasn't blocking, as he was still attacking me (with quick bolt attacks, as I was doing). My concern is that if players are being allowed into Cyrodiil that CANNOT do any damage to a foe, they're going to get discouraged and not try again. I'm stubborn, and I realize the way things work in games like this, but not everyone has my mindset.

If someone is going to be allowed into the battle zone, they have to make it possible for them to have a reasonable chance of success. At present, I'm not seeing it, and I'm almost double the entry level!

Still, hope springs eternal. Perhaps posting some of my thoughts, experiences and concerns will be useful to them.

scave · May 2014

I don't actually want to see low levels buffed up in Cyrodil far beyond their abilities. I would never have expected to go in there as a lvl 20 and expect to hand out lots of damage to VR rank players in 1v1. If I wanted that I'd just go play BF4.

Having said that, I agree that Cyrodil is probably a very off-putting experience to new players, and I don't see it as an element of this game that's going to encourage the majority of players to renew their subs. There's far too much CC in PvP here, and it reminds me so much of the old, off-putting and failed pvp systems in games like TOR, Aion and Lotro.

The CC breaker skill should have a far faster execution and cost a lot less to use, imo. Oh, and this game should actually make new players aware of it at some point.

Nidwin · May 2014

There are no Tiers so it's everyone and their mothers in the same sandbox.
So, poor little level 10, screw the ones wanting to RvR at level 3 of course, versus Cheat Engine Powered VR10 PRO's.

It shouldn't be that hard for ZOS to put in place a couple of campaigns for the little ones so everyone can experience Cyrodill at any level, properly.

Tier 1
level 1 -> 15

Tier 2
level 16 -> 30

Tier 3
level 31 -49

Tier 4
Level 50 and +

And here ZOS has no excuse as I saw Kai in the credentials who should have known it!

Kai

Zargorius · May 2014

Nidwin wrote: »

There are no Tiers so it's everyone and their mothers in the same sandbox.
So, poor little level 10, screw the ones wanting to RvR at level 3 of course, versus Cheat Engine Powered VR10 PRO's.

It shouldn't be that hard for ZOS to put in place a couple of campaigns for the little ones so everyone can experience Cyrodill at any level, properly.

Tier 1
level 1 -> 15

Tier 2
level 16 -> 30

Tier 3
level 31 -49

Tier 4
Level 50 and +

And here ZOS has no excuse as I saw Kai in the credentials who should have known it!

Kai

Nah, it would have sufficed to split 1-49 / VR and cutting down on the number of servers.
As for now, the campaigns are utterly screwed and leaderboards are meaningless. Hell, PVP is meaningless as there's no point to it besides PVPin for the sake of it.
Keeps, scrolls, alliances all toned down to Blues vs Reds Vs Yellows ping-ponging across the map without any real meaning to it. Lose a keep? Whatever. Scroll? Yeah, we can get that back overnight. Uh look, another emperor, lulz. It's like a broken pencil.

LadyChaos · May 2014

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

No, he wasn't blocking, as he was still attacking me (with quick bolt attacks, as I was doing). My concern is that if players are being allowed into Cyrodiil that CANNOT do any damage to a foe, they're going to get discouraged and not try again. I'm stubborn, and I realize the way things work in games like this, but not everyone has my mindset.

If someone is going to be allowed into the battle zone, they have to make it possible for them to have a reasonable chance of success. At present, I'm not seeing it, and I'm almost double the entry level!

Still, hope springs eternal. Perhaps posting some of my thoughts, experiences and concerns will be useful to them.

You can hold down block and never let it up, continue to cast. You are vulnerable during the casting, but as mentioned lightning casters use instant casts, so very little unblocked time, until they want to use a weapon.

Also there are damage absorbers that can be recast, HoT and resists to take into effect. Meanshile he could have some ~60% spell resist bypass abilities, plus 30-60% crit ability. Depending on his build he could heal for every crit he does. Like I was mentioning before 50 levels of passives go a long way.

Azarul · May 2014

What level was the enemy? The answer will make all the difference in the help we can provide.

Aballister · May 2014

I still drop dead for no reason I can see every now and then. It's a shame there isn't a combat log to see what's going on, at least it would give an insight into a possible defence.

rotiferuk · May 2014

ian.freybourgerb16_ESO wrote: »

I still drop dead for no reason I can see every now and then. It's a shame there isn't a combat log to see what's going on, at least it would give an insight into a possible defence.

If you are not with a group then sneak, all the time. It's what I do. Watch your stamina because if you run out you stop sneaking. Stamina regenerates when you stop moving, you don't have to break sneak. Also, keep watch for approaching enemies, if you are in their path you still need to get out of their way even if you are in sneak.

tengri · May 2014

The upscaling of lower level players does not work. End of story.

It's nice PR move/marketing gag only... you can go to Cyradiil at level 10! Wow! Yes! Do want, do it, do it and love it.
It worked to some extend during beta because there were no vast armies of VR100 players ganking down on everything and this delivered a false impression that PvP is part of the rather normal game play. Not so much.
It's end game content and end game content only.

And this has nothing to do with "learn to play" and stuff; earlier you have neither the resources nor the gear to do it. Don't even try.

LadyChaos · May 2014

TBH I think VR1 has the most advantage of pure stats as everyone is normalized to VR1... not saying VR2-10 doesnt have the bonus to gear and SP... but for raw stats vr1 is where its at, even 49 to vr1 imo...

Drachenfier · May 2014

We need a Thidranki of our very own

Morgha_Kul · May 2014

I think that I'd rather be doing comparable damage and still have only L17 health. I mean, if I can't do any damage at all, I'm not any use on my own OR in a group. I mean, having next to no health isn't as much of a problem if I'm in a group and may not be attacked, but being unable to do any damage takes me out of the battle entirely.

Xnemesis · May 2014

At LvL 12 you will do best in a group using siege for defense. A vet player will run through you like hot butter