My suggestion to tackle Ballgroups in Cyrodiil.

Dat · August 2023

reazea wrote: »

Only thing that needs done to nerf ball groups is nerf cross healing, primarily radiating regen. Just make it so a player can only have one instance of radiating regen on them at any given time.

With the way hybridization has changed things this suggestion wouldn't do much. Tbh most of our cross healing comes from vigor. Those using radiating are doing it only to get mag back from the maelstrom resto staff

AstroST · September 2023

Dat wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Only thing that needs done to nerf ball groups is nerf cross healing, primarily radiating regen. Just make it so a player can only have one instance of radiating regen on them at any given time.

With the way hybridization has changed things this suggestion wouldn't do much. Tbh most of our cross healing comes from vigor. Those using radiating are doing it only to get mag back from the maelstrom resto staff

So if they remove the 12 stack of echoing vigor you have you will be ok?
Lets do It.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · September 2023

AstroST wrote: »

Dat wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Only thing that needs done to nerf ball groups is nerf cross healing, primarily radiating regen. Just make it so a player can only have one instance of radiating regen on them at any given time.

With the way hybridization has changed things this suggestion wouldn't do much. Tbh most of our cross healing comes from vigor. Those using radiating are doing it only to get mag back from the maelstrom resto staff

So if they remove the 12 stack of echoing vigor you have you will be ok?
Lets do It.

The majority of group power (aside from teamwork and coordination) comes from group sets. The cross healing strength of hots for sure helps but even if all the hots were solo hots it will still benefit the group player more.

Take a set like Rallying cry. afaik this set can hit 11 other players which makes it give 300 weapon dmg for you using it solo but 3600 weapon dmg when added up across all the players it is affecting in the group. This is a huge power spike for a 5p set.
Lets stack that effect with some of the other common group dmg sets e.g SPC(430x12), Phoenix Moth(215x12), Pearlescent ward(180x12), Powerful Assault(307x6 - I didn't test if it can double proc and hit the whole group for a long time maybe it can now).

That's 15342 weapon dmg across your group, unbuffed by other things such as major/minor brutality (1278 each aprox) from 5 sets where as a solo player you can't get that benefit. (lets not forget the sets give stats to the player wearing them on top of this).

Because healing and damage both scale off these stats it's also then double dipping in terms of the power that gives a group compared to a solo. They can both do more damage and heal for more individually.

Then you take CP into account. Players in groups (imo this is a good thing because it gives variety to playstyles in cyro) specialise into damage, healing or support roles this means they can focus their CP into that specific role's benefit giving them far more power collectively than a solo player who normally needs to split their focus.

The sets I listed above are just a small selection of the group sets & abilities in use. You have major & minor brutality from DK meaning you don't need to slot this skill so you gain an extra slot (if anything you can slot flare there for constant -10% dmg taken) most solo players don't have this luxury. NB/Sorc give extra crit, Warden gives Major brutality and toughness, arcanist gives minor evasion, multiple classes can give minor regen. All of these to the whole group from just simple proc effects or 1 skill across 12 players.

People hyper focusing on hots as the root of all group power are simply missing the point and making the game more and more dull as ZOS respond to these things with ill-conceived changes to knee jerk fix the issues.

I've bolded the main point but also group sets could likely be scaled down a bit in PVP too.

Here is what I would do to make group play more engaging and skill based again:

1. Completely revert the healing springs to hot healing meta change.
2. Scale healing and damage from different stats (ideally max stats for healing and 'damage' stat for damage).
3. Tone down some group sets past 4 or 6 players OR make group sets affect sub groups within a 'raid' e.g. 'after the first 4 or 6 players the benefit is reduced by x% per player' OR 24m groups made up of 4 groups of 6 players and the sets can only affect others in the group.
4. Upgrade servers again and then raise Cyro population (it feels like ZOS's free trial has ended on their NA server upgrades and they reverted back to terrible again - only tested for 1 night though so maybe I was just unlucky).

RaikaNA · September 2023

The best way to defeat a ballgroup is to force them into boredom...how do you do this? By not interacting with them. If an EP ball group is sitting at Fare... or Bloodmayne... Just ignore them... DON'T CHASE THE SHINY! I know how tempting it is... just don't unless you yourself are in an organized group that knows how to kill ballgroups.

If ballgroups aren't being fed AP because people aren't chasing the shiny... they will go else where. Simple as that guys

finehair · October 2023

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

AstroST wrote: »

Dat wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

Only.
Lets stack that effect with some of the other common group dmg sets e.g SPC(430x12), Phoenix Moth(215x12), Pearlescent ward(180x12), Powerful Assault(307x6 - I didn't test if it can double proc and hit the whole group for a long time maybe it can now).

That's 15342 weapon dmg across your group, unbuffed by other things such as major/minor brutality (1278 each aprox) from 5 sets where as a solo player you can't get that benefit. (lets not forget the sets give stats to the player wearing them on top of this).

[

What? You can't have multiple powerful assault/Spc buffs on you? What kind of funny mathematics you are up to?

Holycannoli · October 2023

Healing in PvP is out of control and has been for a long time. They need to nerf cross-healing first and foremost. No other nerfs before that. We need to see how that affects Cyrodiil.

Instead they introduce sets to help combat it, then nerf them.

OBJnoob · October 2023

Holycannoli wrote: »

Healing in PvP is out of control and has been for a long time. They need to nerf cross-healing first and foremost. No other nerfs before that. We need to see how that affects Cyrodiil.

Instead they introduce sets to help combat it, then nerf them.

They introduce sets to help combat it and then nerf them because the solo and small-scalers who complain about big groups having big healing are worried about these same sets being used against them.

Which is why everyone's favorite suggestion is to nerf heal stacking because those complaining won't be effected.

1 person killing 8 is fine with everyone. 4 people killing 12 is fine with everyone. 12 killing 30? Uh oh, broken mechanics at play.

Healing needs an overall nerf first. Or do you not agree that solo and small-scale players are capable, proportionately, of doing the exact same thing ballgroups do?

Nobody in this game is willing to die. And that's why everything is so out of balance. And that's also why most balance suggestions are biased. And probably why they are ignored.

Imagine being a dev of an MMORPG and listening to small groups complain about being beaten by big groups for years. Talk about NOT a balance concern. Might as well complain that 3 people can't lift 12 people into the air on a see-saw.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 2023

finehair wrote: »

What? You can't have multiple powerful assault/Spc buffs on you? What kind of funny mathematics you are up to?

I'm adding the effective power of 1 set when the buff is applied to a group of 12 vs a solo player wearing a set to indicate why groups have such an advantage currently.