My suggestion to tackle Ballgroups in Cyrodiil.

jukka.laitineneb17_ESO

Hi everyone.

While some of you players love to be in ballgroups and just farm AP, there is wide majority of us PvPers that want this to end. Ballgroup playing is easy... just run around in a group and spam 2 or 3 skills endlessly and have 1 "special" player so that you are immune to any attack or def siege. This is my own opinion.
While ZoS is trying to tackle this with various methods it seems that any changes to any skill or armory is just profiting Ballgroups to no end.

My solution to this would be:

* When keep, that was under attack and taken by a ballgroup, is sieged and successfully returned to it's rightful owners (Faregyl, Glademist, Arrius etc), all walls and doors are 100%, and keep is not under siege or under attack anymore, no flags are changing -> All enemies would automatically die after 1 minute.

One common fact concerning BallGrps is that they do not take flags, nore siege the keep and so they only run around on the ledge or wall and kill other players defending the keep. Adding 1 requirement to successfully stay alive in enemy keep would be that one has to either siege or try to take a flag. When that would not happen all enemies would face automatic death by AI / system or whatever you call it.

Other fact is that Ballgrps are terrible are siege. This is skill they do not prefer to learn properly.

There certaily is much more ideas that you guys have.. this is one of them. Honest fights are ok. I admit I am a medicore PvPer and do not mind losing to a better player but this BallGrps are just lame. And remeber.. this is a game.

So pretty please developers... please think, analyse and evaluate this method to tackle BallGrps..

Thank You

jukka.laitineneb17_ESO

And as BallGrps I mean any enemy player, single or a group, Guild or PuGs...

Delphinia

jukka.laitineneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hi everyone.

While some of you players love to be in ballgroups and just farm AP, there is wide majority of us PvPers that want this to end. Ballgroup playing is easy... just run around in a group and spam 2 or 3 skills endlessly and have 1 "special" player so that you are immune to any attack or def siege. This is my own opinion.
While ZoS is trying to tackle this with various methods it seems that any changes to any skill or armory is just profiting Ballgroups to no end.

My solution to this would be:

* When keep, that was under attack and taken by a ballgroup, is sieged and successfully returned to it's rightful owners (Faregyl, Glademist, Arrius etc), all walls and doors are 100%, and keep is not under siege or under attack anymore, no flags are changing -> All enemies would automatically die after 1 minute.

One common fact concerning BallGrps is that they do not take flags, nore siege the keep and so they only run around on the ledge or wall and kill other players defending the keep. Adding 1 requirement to successfully stay alive in enemy keep would be that one has to either siege or try to take a flag. When that would not happen all enemies would face automatic death by AI / system or whatever you call it.

Other fact is that Ballgrps are terrible are siege. This is skill they do not prefer to learn properly.

There certaily is much more ideas that you guys have.. this is one of them. Honest fights are ok. I admit I am a medicore PvPer and do not mind losing to a better player but this BallGrps are just lame. And remeber.. this is a game.

So pretty please developers... please think, analyse and evaluate this method to tackle BallGrps..

Thank You

Keeps should be similar to how the scroll temples are treated, or give enemy players a countdown and as time ticks down, their health diminishes quicker. If they want back in the keep, they can siege it from the outside again.


It seems that zos also does not like anyone being able to troll inside of a keep, otherwise they would not have taken the ability to take the top stairs down.


What makes this even more of a troll move is that someone could be logging in and not realize there is a ball group, or any enemy, in one of the keeps.
That player, then takes the shrine and ports in to the keep, because it is unflagged and owned by their faction. Instead of being safe upon arrival, they are run over by that group at the shrine which should have offered them safe transport.


While some may argue that this is a valid tactic, because it ties up players in their own keep, prohibiting them from moving on to help defend or take back other keeps, it creates a toxic environment, one that does not promote active and healthy gameplay.

ShadowProc

100 percent agree. The only ones that will not like this change are the selfish ball groups out to farm pugs.

This style of play is easy mode, kills performance, and deters new pvpers from wanting to stay.

VaranisArano

All that would change is the ball groups would either take the flags or else move to other forms of scroll farms.

Anyone else remember the Chorrol lava pits or the various small buildings where you can take the scroll inside and then lay down DOTs on the door that'll kill you while you're loading in?

In the meanwhile, you'll be knocking out some non-ball group playstyles like gankers and bombers who often intentionally go for people who are still hanging around a newly recaptured keep.

(I say this as a group healer who doesn't enjoy scroll farming. Give me a good siege or a battle for the flags any day.)

cursedabbey

• Hots dont stack, only one of each type on you at a time.
• proxy det does stacking less damage based on how many other proxies have hit the target. I dont think that having almost every single person in a 12 man group running destro ults is good either, and I honestly think it should do reduced damage based on how many others are active.
• Health stops scaling normally after 30k in pvp zones. Make it harder to reach high health values.
• Fix *** like rush of agony triggering multiple times
• Groups can only cast one negate at a time

Iki

While I share openingposters frustration regarding ballgroups, I don`t think his ideas would do much to help, ballgroups would merely change tactics a bit.

I believe only way to really even the odds between organized groups and their unorganized prey would be to give everyone access to same tookit. Ungrouped players should be able to use and buff each other with same skills and sets that now are group-only. Let me buff my nearby allies with barrier, rallying cry, poweful assault etc and see how pvp looks like then. Perhaps not so fast and easy victories for organized side? Now power-creep is way too big, and mostly artificial. Once ballgroups start logging in, ungrouped players might aswell log out or choose their battlefields far away from them, as lame as that might be.
What would be the point of participating in battles where only one side is able to have barrier-rotation giving everyone 30k+ worth burst-mitigation? And having their dds with 1k+ extra wep dmg? I`m sorry ballgroup players but you are not as awesome as your kill-death-ratios might suggest. 90% of time in Cyrodiil what you really are doing is seal-clubbing. Time to even the odds, don`t you think?

VaranisArano

Iki wrote: »

While I share openingposters frustration regarding ballgroups, I don`t think his ideas would do much to help, ballgroups would merely change tactics a bit.

I believe only way to really even the odds between organized groups and their unorganized prey would be to give everyone access to same tookit. Ungrouped players should be able to use and buff each other with same skills and sets that now are group-only. Let me buff my nearby allies with barrier, rallying cry, poweful assault etc and see how pvp looks like then. Perhaps not so fast and easy victories for organized side? Now power-creep is way too big, and mostly artificial. Once ballgroups start logging in, ungrouped players might aswell log out or choose their battlefields far away from them, as lame as that might be.
What would be the point of participating in battles where only one side is able to have barrier-rotation giving everyone 30k+ worth burst-mitigation? And having their dds with 1k+ extra wep dmg? I`m sorry ballgroup players but you are not as awesome as your kill-death-ratios might suggest. 90% of time in Cyrodiil what you really are doing is seal-clubbing. Time to even the odds, don`t you think?

I'd be down for group-only buffs getting a priority where you protect your group first and then nearby ungrouped players if you haven't met the cap.

However, as someone who uses Barrier while PUGing, the practical problem with doing so is that most ungrouped players aren't going to stick close enough to you. Barrier, Powerful Assault, and Rallying Cry all have a 12 meter radius. PUGs and ungrouped players usually don't stick that close.

PvP Guilds do, because they are disciplined, in voice comms, and committed to stacking on Crown. That's the bedrock on which the synergistic effect of a ball group is built.



I have suggested that ZOS consider giving buff sets a bigger radius. Worm's Raiment has a 28m radius. If Powerful Assault matched that, then maybe PUGs would derive more benefit without having to stack on crown.

Otherwise, you wind up like I did where my 12m buff sets went mostly unused, or you make a different healer build that's focused on healing and non-radius buffs, like the Gossamer Set.

So yeah, a priority system + a radius expansion could help even out access to some buffs. It won't necessarily outweigh the impact of voice comms and stacking buffs on crown, but at least it wouldn't punish PUG players who wear buff sets.

Iki

VaranisArano wrote: »

Iki wrote: »

While I share openingposters frustration regarding ballgroups, I don`t think his ideas would do much to help, ballgroups would merely change tactics a bit.

I believe only way to really even the odds between organized groups and their unorganized prey would be to give everyone access to same tookit. Ungrouped players should be able to use and buff each other with same skills and sets that now are group-only. Let me buff my nearby allies with barrier, rallying cry, poweful assault etc and see how pvp looks like then. Perhaps not so fast and easy victories for organized side? Now power-creep is way too big, and mostly artificial. Once ballgroups start logging in, ungrouped players might aswell log out or choose their battlefields far away from them, as lame as that might be.
What would be the point of participating in battles where only one side is able to have barrier-rotation giving everyone 30k+ worth burst-mitigation? And having their dds with 1k+ extra wep dmg? I`m sorry ballgroup players but you are not as awesome as your kill-death-ratios might suggest. 90% of time in Cyrodiil what you really are doing is seal-clubbing. Time to even the odds, don`t you think?

I'd be down for group-only buffs getting a priority where you protect your group first and then nearby ungrouped players if you haven't met the cap.

However, as someone who uses Barrier while PUGing, the practical problem with doing so is that most ungrouped players aren't going to stick close enough to you. Barrier, Powerful Assault, and Rallying Cry all have a 12 meter radius. PUGs and ungrouped players usually don't stick that close.

PvP Guilds do, because they are disciplined, in voice comms, and committed to stacking on Crown. That's the bedrock on which the synergistic effect of a ball group is built.



I have suggested that ZOS consider giving buff sets a bigger radius. Worm's Raiment has a 28m radius. If Powerful Assault matched that, then maybe PUGs would derive more benefit without having to stack on crown.

Otherwise, you wind up like I did where my 12m buff sets went mostly unused, or you make a different healer build that's focused on healing and non-radius buffs, like the Gossamer Set.

So yeah, a priority system + a radius expansion could help even out access to some buffs. It won't necessarily outweigh the impact of voice comms and stacking buffs on crown, but at least it wouldn't punish PUG players who wear buff sets.

I don`t see set/ability radius as an issue, perhaps some of them could be tweaked a bit. But random pvp`ers actually do end up stacking naturally quite often in different situations, like when defending breach in keep or flipping a flag and those moments specificly are when unorganized players are vulnerable and would need burst-mitigation, like barrier, to stand a chance against ballgroup or bombers. Years ago I didn`t have any issues with organized group-play, we all had fun in different ways in Cyrodiil, but game changed.. and now nearby allies can get me killed too in multiple ways yet I can`t use some of the strongest tools to save their lives (and mine). If I spend ultimate points to barrier I deserve to get same value out of those points as ballgroup-healer, but now I don`t.

VaranisArano

Iki wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Iki wrote: »

While I share openingposters frustration regarding ballgroups, I don`t think his ideas would do much to help, ballgroups would merely change tactics a bit.

I believe only way to really even the odds between organized groups and their unorganized prey would be to give everyone access to same tookit. Ungrouped players should be able to use and buff each other with same skills and sets that now are group-only. Let me buff my nearby allies with barrier, rallying cry, poweful assault etc and see how pvp looks like then. Perhaps not so fast and easy victories for organized side? Now power-creep is way too big, and mostly artificial. Once ballgroups start logging in, ungrouped players might aswell log out or choose their battlefields far away from them, as lame as that might be.
What would be the point of participating in battles where only one side is able to have barrier-rotation giving everyone 30k+ worth burst-mitigation? And having their dds with 1k+ extra wep dmg? I`m sorry ballgroup players but you are not as awesome as your kill-death-ratios might suggest. 90% of time in Cyrodiil what you really are doing is seal-clubbing. Time to even the odds, don`t you think?

I'd be down for group-only buffs getting a priority where you protect your group first and then nearby ungrouped players if you haven't met the cap.

However, as someone who uses Barrier while PUGing, the practical problem with doing so is that most ungrouped players aren't going to stick close enough to you. Barrier, Powerful Assault, and Rallying Cry all have a 12 meter radius. PUGs and ungrouped players usually don't stick that close.

PvP Guilds do, because they are disciplined, in voice comms, and committed to stacking on Crown. That's the bedrock on which the synergistic effect of a ball group is built.



I have suggested that ZOS consider giving buff sets a bigger radius. Worm's Raiment has a 28m radius. If Powerful Assault matched that, then maybe PUGs would derive more benefit without having to stack on crown.

Otherwise, you wind up like I did where my 12m buff sets went mostly unused, or you make a different healer build that's focused on healing and non-radius buffs, like the Gossamer Set.

So yeah, a priority system + a radius expansion could help even out access to some buffs. It won't necessarily outweigh the impact of voice comms and stacking buffs on crown, but at least it wouldn't punish PUG players who wear buff sets.

I don`t see set/ability radius as an issue, perhaps some of them could be tweaked a bit. But random pvp`ers actually do end up stacking naturally quite often in different situations, like when defending breach in keep or flipping a flag and those moments specificly are when unorganized players are vulnerable and would need burst-mitigation, like barrier, to stand a chance against ballgroup or bombers. Years ago I didn`t have any issues with organized group-play, we all had fun in different ways in Cyrodiil, but game changed.. and now nearby allies can get me killed too in multiple ways yet I can`t use some of the strongest tools to save their lives (and mine). If I spend ultimate points to barrier I deserve to get same value out of those points as ballgroup-healer, but now I don`t.

Sure!

I think a group-first priority would be nice so if you're in a small group of 4, you can barrier yourself, your 3 groupmates + 2 ungrouped allies nearby, rather than just 6 random nearby allies.

Or for something like Rallying Cry, your group + up to 8 allies within the 12m radius.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

imo it would be nice to add a proper raid screen where groups would be 3 groups of 4 rather than a single group of 12.

But most buff sets & abilities would then all be changed to 'group only' so wouldn't affect those outside of your group of 4.

so for example lets say you want Major Courage. you would need 3 players with SPC or Olorime's, one in each group of 4.

This would go some way to reducing the power of these sets and groups in general when compared to individual players. Leading to a greater emphasis on gameplay and group comp. for example do you want all your DD's in 1 group along with 1 buffing player to apply speed to them however then certain heals which are group only wouldn't extend to them etc.

I think with this change ZOS could also re-introduce the 24m cap which hurt a lot of 'zerg' groups for coordination etc whilst not really scaling the power too much higher.

HoT's could also then be group only which would bring a lot of compromise between the core ESO mechanics and the 'HoT's shouldn't stack' crowd where as ground effects would still be 'all targets inside' to allow for positional gameplay and denial.

Loooree

and i suggest that people make their own organised groups to make things interesting for everyone :-)


no i don't mean typing "LFM type + for an invite"

LordeGian

OH MY GOD

[snip]

Cyrodill is an open field to play in groups, do yourself a favor, [snip] and queue for BG or go get flags in IC.

[edited for baiting]

Flangdoodle

Not all ball groups are the same. Tactics to fight them are as varied as they are. Yeah its annoying when they run around the third floor looking for 12 v 1's but Im not sure that putting a timer on them is going to help.

I do agree that they shouldnt be able to spawn camp the transitus. Perhaps there should be a safe zone around transitus shrines in keeps like the ones at Bruma, Cropsford, and doors in IC to prevent groups from killing players transiting in before they're out of load screen.

sulima

A PVP set for support players, i.e. -while NPCs are in combat provide a buff or increase their healing taken, increase the value the longer the NPC stays in combat. It would add and element strategy for both defenders and those trying to take a keeps, you just can’t zerg everything

jukka.laitineneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hi everyone.

While some of you players love to be in ballgroups and just farm AP, there is wide majority of us PvPers that want this to end. Ballgroup playing is easy... just run around in a group and spam 2 or 3 skills endlessly and have 1 "special" player so that you are immune to any attack or def siege. This is my own opinion.
While ZoS is trying to tackle this with various methods it seems that any changes to any skill or armory is just profiting Ballgroups to no end.

My solution to this would be:

* When keep, that was under attack and taken by a ballgroup, is sieged and successfully returned to it's rightful owners (Faregyl, Glademist, Arrius etc), all walls and doors are 100%, and keep is not under siege or under attack anymore, no flags are changing -> All enemies would automatically die after 1 minute.

One common fact concerning BallGrps is that they do not take flags, nore siege the keep and so they only run around on the ledge or wall and kill other players defending the keep. Adding 1 requirement to successfully stay alive in enemy keep would be that one has to either siege or try to take a flag. When that would not happen all enemies would face automatic death by AI / system or whatever you call it.

Other fact is that Ballgrps are terrible are siege. This is skill they do not prefer to learn properly.

There certaily is much more ideas that you guys have.. this is one of them. Honest fights are ok. I admit I am a medicore PvPer and do not mind losing to a better player but this BallGrps are just lame. And remeber.. this is a game.

So pretty please developers... please think, analyse and evaluate this method to tackle BallGrps..

Thank You

Maybe a new PVP supporting set that works where battle spirit is present and would only buff NPCs? The longer they stay in combat the bigger the stack. The buff on NPCs would drop as soon as they are out of combat. Might make for some interesting strategies while defending and trying to take keeps?

geonsocal

I love the battle-spirit + buff alliance npc set idea...

wow...that would really have a big effect in small scale fighting...

CameraBeardThePirate

LordeGian wrote: »

OH MY GOD

[snip]

Cyrodill is an open field to play in groups, do yourself a favor, [snip] and queue for BG or go get flags in IC.

You seem like a pleasant person.

[edited to remove quote]

DizzyMac

Easy fix, give us back the FULL original setups on Hrothgars, Dark Convergence & Plaguebreak. The ball groups spent so long complaining about those sets because they couldnt survive them & they ended up nerfed big time

CameraBeardThePirate

DizzyMac wrote: »

Easy fix, give us back the FULL original setups on Hrothgars, Dark Convergence & Plaguebreak. The ball groups spent so long complaining about those sets because they couldnt survive them & they ended up nerfed big time

Ballgroups weren't complaining about these sets, PUG zergs were. Ballgroups were the ones using these sets to their fullest abilities obliterating zergs.

LonePirate

cursedabbey wrote: »

• Hots dont stack, only one of each type on you at a time.
  <snip>
• Health stops scaling normally after 30k in pvp zones. Make it harder to reach high health values.
  <snip>

The Hots item is the big one. There is ZERO reason we should not have Major Medicine and Minor Medicine buffs added to this game which would seriously curtail heal stacking. This alone would introduce significant changes to how ball groups and others play, making them far less invincible.

As for the health scaling, the curve for it as well as for resistance need to be far more concave than their current convex nature. A law of diminishing returns is needed for both; however I think ZOS adamantly opposes changes to both because it would have a tremendous impact on tanking, which is one of the third rails in this game which ZOS will not touch. Like it or not, ZOS is not going to tamper with something that will generate outrage in the dungeons and trials aspects of the game just to improve the PVP aspect of the game.

Marcus684

Have you ever trolled guards in the cities, kiting them and killing NPCs, until they get fed up and hit you with a 1-shot ranged attack? Add this ability to the keep guards a couple of minutes after the keep unbursts. Having a random group member get 1-shotted every time they get too close to a guard will discourage them from overstaying their welcome.

Rhaegar75

Marcus684 wrote: »

Have you ever trolled guards in the cities, kiting them and killing NPCs, until they get fed up and hit you with a 1-shot ranged attack? Add this ability to the keep guards a couple of minutes after the keep unbursts. Having a random group member get 1-shotted every time they get too close to a guard will discourage them from overstaying their welcome.

I’d sooooo love this!!!

MLRPZ

jukka.laitineneb17_ESO wrote: »

Hi everyone.

While some of you players love to be in ballgroups and just farm AP, there is wide majority of us PvPers that want this to end. Ballgroup playing is easy... just run around in a group and spam 2 or 3 skills endlessly and have 1 "special" player so that you are immune to any attack or def siege. This is my own opinion.
While ZoS is trying to tackle this with various methods it seems that any changes to any skill or armory is just profiting Ballgroups to no end.

To that day, I still don't understand why people think playing in a "ballgroup" (hate this term btw, it should be organised group) and still think it's "easy"

Clearly, you don't understand the work behind an organised group nore you ever played in one. So please, stop trying to "fix" us, People like you have been complaining since 2014, and there will always be coordinated groups in this game (what the game was designed for btw).

if it's so easy, just do it yourself instead of flaming.

P.S : for the siege part, you're welcome to try and siege a keep with 8-12 man when 40 ppl cold fire ur face

The Uninvited

Just increase siege damage by 100% and be done with it.

Dat

As you said these posts have been around since the games inception. People will always complain about what kills them. I just enjoy the hate tells that say "nice cheats" or something along those lines. It's kind of amusing tbh. The coordination our groups take to pull off will never be realized by people who don't do it themselves. The are happy in their thoughts that all we do is run in circles and press 1 button each to win lol. Regardless of how many times we tell them they are wrong. Usually I just link our comp to them with our builds/skills used and invite them to fight us but no one ever takes me up on that. They would rather complain on the forums instead 🙄

acastanza_ESO

Dat wrote: »

As you said these posts have been around since the games inception. People will always complain about what kills them. I just enjoy the hate tells that say "nice cheats" or something along those lines. It's kind of amusing tbh. The coordination our groups take to pull off will never be realized by people who don't do it themselves. The are happy in their thoughts that all we do is run in circles and press 1 button each to win lol. Regardless of how many times we tell them they are wrong. Usually I just link our comp to them with our builds/skills used and invite them to fight us but no one ever takes me up on that. They would rather complain on the forums instead 🙄

You can say it's "skill" all you like, there is nothing "skillful" about running in circles with 6 healers (excuse me, "support" lol) chain casting barrier and gibbering shelter, with 12 instances of Vigor and Radiating while you keep 2-3 DPS in bomb builds alive and slap proxy det, and flavor-of-the-month meta support sets, on everyone else. If you think so, you're only fooling yourself. Take away your exploitative over-healing and bye-bye.

MLRPZ

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Dat wrote: »

As you said these posts have been around since the games inception. People will always complain about what kills them. I just enjoy the hate tells that say "nice cheats" or something along those lines. It's kind of amusing tbh. The coordination our groups take to pull off will never be realized by people who don't do it themselves. The are happy in their thoughts that all we do is run in circles and press 1 button each to win lol. Regardless of how many times we tell them they are wrong. Usually I just link our comp to them with our builds/skills used and invite them to fight us but no one ever takes me up on that. They would rather complain on the forums instead 🙄

You can say it's "skill" all you like, there is nothing "skillful" about running in circles with 6 healers (excuse me, "support" lol) chain casting barrier and gibbering shelter, with 12 instances of Vigor and Radiating while you keep 2-3 DPS in bomb builds alive and slap proxy det, and flavor-of-the-month meta support sets, on everyone else. If you think so, you're only fooling yourself. Take away your exploitative over-healing and bye-bye.

Yikes, you kinda just proved his point here

grell007

Here are some pvp centered armor set ideas. These are the finale 5 piece set abilities.

1. When hit with vicious death; all vicious damage goes back on player wearing vicious death armor.
2. When killed by a player all their HOTs are turned into oblivion damage until you are rezzed
3. When a negate is dropped on enemy players, any wearing a mythic armor piece is frozen in place for 2 seconds
re are some armor ideas

grell007

Also make siege shield an ability you have to toggle on and off. And while active you cant move or use other abilities or siege shield stops

Make siege weapons do more damage the more people that are in the radius. Ex. 1-4 people no change 5-8 people 20% more and 9-up 30% more

Dat

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Dat wrote: »

As you said these posts have been around since the games inception. People will always complain about what kills them. I just enjoy the hate tells that say "nice cheats" or something along those lines. It's kind of amusing tbh. The coordination our groups take to pull off will never be realized by people who don't do it themselves. The are happy in their thoughts that all we do is run in circles and press 1 button each to win lol. Regardless of how many times we tell them they are wrong. Usually I just link our comp to them with our builds/skills used and invite them to fight us but no one ever takes me up on that. They would rather complain on the forums instead 🙄

You can say it's "skill" all you like, there is nothing "skillful" about running in circles with 6 healers (excuse me, "support" lol) chain casting barrier and gibbering shelter, with 12 instances of Vigor and Radiating while you keep 2-3 DPS in bomb builds alive and slap proxy det, and flavor-of-the-month meta support sets, on everyone else. If you think so, you're only fooling yourself. Take away your exploitative over-healing and bye-bye.

I said skill once in that whole post and it was referencing the "skills" we use on our bars. But I'm glad you know how to read . Bottom line is this, cyro is built around group play. It always has been and always will be. There should never be a point where ungrouped pugs/1vX/zergs should beat a organized group that is in voice, coordinating sets/skills and keeping as many buffs up on them while doing their dmg. That doesn't make sense and if you think that isn't the case then you my friend are highly delusional and maybe this isn't the game for you. Or try your hand at BGs. Idk what else to tell you lol.

The "meta of the month" sets that you mention are kinda interesting tho considering the ballgroup meta really hasn't changed much over the years. Skills have changed and new sets were introduced but the premise is still very Much the same. As I have stated before if you are curious I would be happy to send you the exact setups we run and you're welcome to build to counter it if you like. But since I already know you won't lol I feel like I'm wasting my time. Being able to adapt to the situation is half the fun to me and my team. Clearly this is just another attempt to complain away issues. 🙄

reazea

Only thing that needs done to nerf ball groups is nerf cross healing, primarily radiating regen. Just make it so a player can only have one instance of radiating regen on them at any given time.