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Bats, Bolt Escape DKs, none of it is OP
TheBull
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My new theory on ESO balance. First let me explain something about me, until about 2 weeks ago I had never posted that ____ needs to be nerfed. That's just not me. I find ways of getting it done. In fact I embrace the OP challenge when it arises. I'll roll out of a fotm, I don't roll into them.
Now to my theory. Pre-patch Bats, DKs, Sorcerers, none of it is OP it's all working as intended. However, the problem is Night Blades are one of the most played classes and they are terrible! That's why all you hear is nerf this, nerf that. Everything I see out there is OP! Seriously.
Now if me, born and raised on video game pvp is posting on the boards about something being OP. No question the natural whinny players who rolled Night Blade are going nuts.
In conclusion, if DKs can tank 6 people (even more MOBs, that's what tanks do right?) and Sorcerers can make the world smaller by teleporting (they are wizards they should be able to right?), and Templar can heal through siege equipment, tank and do great burst, Night Blades should be able to one shot.
Don't nerf anyone, buff Night Blades.
Edited by TheBull on 6 May 2014 18:26 Now to my theory. Pre-patch Bats, DKs, Sorcerers, none of it is OP it's all working as intended. However, the problem is Night Blades are one of the most played classes and they are terrible! That's why all you hear is nerf this, nerf that. Everything I see out there is OP! Seriously.
Now if me, born and raised on video game pvp is posting on the boards about something being OP. No question the natural whinny players who rolled Night Blade are going nuts.
In conclusion, if DKs can tank 6 people (even more MOBs, that's what tanks do right?) and Sorcerers can make the world smaller by teleporting (they are wizards they should be able to right?), and Templar can heal through siege equipment, tank and do great burst, Night Blades should be able to one shot.
Don't nerf anyone, buff Night Blades.
Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
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Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard
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Niffo✭✭✭Can't have a balanced game without nerfing, if you just keep buffing everything you end up with npcs that have millions of hitpoints and take an hour to kill.0 -
Niffo✭✭✭
Oh Nord, you're so bad at posting. Showing someone using a broken ability as proof a class is overpowered.
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TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
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Fixed that for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJVgYs3MFA4
NightBlades OP sometimes in pve.
Yup. And I don't disagree that the NB bugs needed to be fixed. Thankfully they have been (personally tested on the PTS.)
But now that the bugs are fixed, NBs are awesome.
Dark Cloak is the most underrated ability in the game at the moment. It has so many amazing applications, and not just in PvE. It can out standing both in combat and as an escape skill. Spam chaining Dark Cloak and Veiled Strike is practically an I win button. If you also have Siphoning Attacks, you can do this basically forever.0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭So let me get this right , in the end , we got back to each class should have a certain job?
DK should tank.
Templar should heal.
Sorc should DPS.
By all means , i want the devs to come foward and say this is their intention , i can go cancel my sub. That is all , i wont reroll a char because of this.
If someday they allow class changes , then maybe i will come back."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor1 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Nox_Aeterna
Where are you getting that from?
I've got a Nasty Sorc Tank build I'm playing around with right now. People have built some crazy NightBlade and Templar tanks as well.
DKs can be the best DPS class in the game. But each class does it well.
Everyone but DKs can be good healers.
So no, I don't think that's happening at all.1 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Nox_Aeterna
Where are you getting that from?
I've got a Nasty Sorc Tank build I'm playing around with right now. People have built some crazy NightBlade and Templar tanks as well.
DKs can be the best DPS class in the game. But each class does it well.
Everyone but DKs can be good healers.
So no, I don't think that's happening at all.
It is in the OP post mate:In conclusion, if DKs can tank 6 people (even more MOBs, that's what tanks do right?) and Sorcerers can make the world smaller by teleporting (they are wizards they should be able to right?), and Templar can heal through siege equipment, tank and do great burst, Night Blades should be able to one shot."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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Only if you reach to read it that way. That was not the intention.Nox_Aeterna wrote: »@Nox_Aeterna
Where are you getting that from?
I've got a Nasty Sorc Tank build I'm playing around with right now. People have built some crazy NightBlade and Templar tanks as well.
DKs can be the best DPS class in the game. But each class does it well.
Everyone but DKs can be good healers.
So no, I don't think that's happening at all.
It is in the OP post mate:In conclusion, if DKs can tank 6 people (even more MOBs, that's what tanks do right?) and Sorcerers can make the world smaller by teleporting (they are wizards they should be able to right?), and Templar can heal through siege equipment, tank and do great burst, Night Blades should be able to one shot.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
awkwarrd✭✭✭The only build a Nightblade can run, is a siphon build, that is the only viable build for VR content.
And that's because majority of siphon skills actually work.
In this video, a Nightblade able to stand toe-to-toe with something.. you can tell the game needed another 12 months of development.
But still, Siphon builds are the only real build a NB has atm, with the maaany broken skills NB have which include skills that don't even work, the animation will fire, but the ability doesn't even work until you spam it 2-3 times.
Lies, just poorly designed dungeons.NightBlades OP.
Did you see all that loot the guy got?
Pfft.. subscription game and he gets white garbage pieces from a top tier dungeon.. how dumb is that.
These dungeons are so horribly not tested.
The video doesn't show any broken mechanics, just dungeons being the poor design they are..jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »Oh Nord, you're so bad at posting. Showing someone using a broken ability as proof a class is overpowered.
How do you see a broken skill.. when the AI is soo dumb, it can't do anything to counter it? do you want your subscription game AI to be this ***?
It's not the skill being broken, it's the NPC..- NPC AI is broken, like the guards in Cyradiil that can spot you crouched from way off in the distance and reveal you.
- NPC's who rush off down the road after that guy you partied with, even though he is not even in line of sight, or actively in the fight, the partied friend is handing in a quest and a long way away, but that doesn't stop the broken AI NPC, from trying to run off after the guy at the start of the fight.
- Dungeon AI, the worst offender for broken AI, sometimes you can have a tank&spank fight, other times the tank is running around trying to pickup the aggro from the healer.. heals have more threat than abilities that generate threat.. so dumb.
- Dungeons, have been exploited to hell in this game, another GW2 F2P similarity, except ESO's dungeons are actually nice, it's just there was no testing done, no common sense when designing and testing like there was no thought process behind exploiting, GW2 could elarn from ESO dungeons, but ESO dungeons need the AI to work properly.
- Every patch notes, you see a dungeon exploit being fixed, they don't tell you that in the notes though, they just say something generic, but it was an exploit because of dumb AI, and to fix that.. they just nerf entire chunks of the dungeon, not actual fixes, just flat out nerfs, for the future generations of people who want to play the game, and get stupid dungeons that are so heavily nerfed it's a waste of time.. in a subscription game..
I like your theory, it's a good one.Don't nerf anyone, buff Night Blades.
You could be 100% right too, we don't know.
To give the playing field a fair advantage for all class's.. the CLASS'S NEED TO GET BALANCED ASAP.
FIX THE DAMN BROKEN SKILLS.Edited by awkwarrd on 6 May 2014 19:170 - NPC AI is broken, like the guards in Cyradiil that can spot you crouched from way off in the distance and reveal you.
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ChairGraveyard✭✭✭✭OP is right - though Bats obviously needed a fix, the current one is a bandaid and doesn't fix ultimate cost reduction properly (needs a proper fix), while over-nerfing drain and mist form, which only newbies who don't know about interrupting had a problem with.
The sad thing is that people are so into this "nerf everything!" mentality that they WANT a homogenized, samey, weak-hitting skill list, so everyone can be spammy and boring and not really do much damage.
I think it's a symptom of MMO players being used to 10 minute long fights where nothing really happens except trading blows that do hardly any damage. Boring, mundane, and overly long seems to be the preference for people here.
People with any experience with games and balance know that skill homogenization is a stupid way to design skills, and makes for boring, stupid gameplay.
Yet that's exactly what some people here want...everyone to have the same exact skills, and for all skills to be so weak and useless that fights take 20 minutes of trading super low damage blows.Edited by ChairGraveyard on 6 May 2014 19:161 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
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Only if you reach to read it that way. That was not the intention.Nox_Aeterna wrote: »@Nox_Aeterna
Where are you getting that from?
I've got a Nasty Sorc Tank build I'm playing around with right now. People have built some crazy NightBlade and Templar tanks as well.
DKs can be the best DPS class in the game. But each class does it well.
Everyone but DKs can be good healers.
So no, I don't think that's happening at all.
It is in the OP post mate:In conclusion, if DKs can tank 6 people (even more MOBs, that's what tanks do right?) and Sorcerers can make the world smaller by teleporting (they are wizards they should be able to right?), and Templar can heal through siege equipment, tank and do great burst, Night Blades should be able to one shot.
Funny , that is your justification to all this:
DKs can tank like a freaking monster? Well , that is ok , they are tanks.
Sorcs can run from anything unless you have someone mounted? Well , that is ok , that is their special power.
Templar have awesome burst heals? Ok , because templars should be awesome healers.
And now NBs should be able to have awesome burst dps.
Quite sure im not the only one who understood it this way."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor1 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Nox_Aeterna
The fact that unconventional builds are viable in ESO does not mean that there should not be some unique class abilities.0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Nox_Aeterna
The fact that unconventional builds are viable in ESO does not mean that there should not be some unique class abilities.
Sorry mate , but if you dont have a "unconventional build" in each class , that allows them to be equal in a task. Then we have a problem.
And we have now exactly that.
Im not saying i cant understand the game is new , and thus it is poorly balanced , but if it is the devs design intentions to make certains classes just better at certain postions , like the DK for tanking and the templar for healing.
Then i just want them to come foward and say it.
I will just cancel my sub , im not saying that they need to change their vision , im just asking that they tell us this now."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
awkwarrd✭✭✭
This would be why they don't come forward and say it..Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Then i just want them to come foward and say it.
I will just cancel my sub , im not saying that they need to change their vision , im just asking that they tell us this now.
Instead they post vague information about "The Road Ahead"
Which im told from my secret sources.. its a 3 year plan.. not a 12 month plan.
They are going to try and sneakily drag this puppy out for as long as they can and take their time doing it, they have nothing to lose with fanboys right?
Edited by awkwarrd on 6 May 2014 19:410 -
RaZaddha✭✭✭Oh my god, please no one-shot, I can't believe you are even suggesting this.
Invis, enemy comes by, presses one button "I win", enemy is dead. THATS one shotting, lots of skill and effort involved.Edited by RaZaddha on 6 May 2014 19:400 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Nox_Aeterna
That's wrong though. Sorry.
Each class can be a great DPS.
Each class can be a great Tank.
Everyone but DK can be a great healer (but they're OP as Tanks and DPS, so this is okay.)
You can literally make all of them into whatever role you want and be viable.0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Nox_Aeterna
That's wrong though. Sorry.
Each class can be a great DPS.
Each class can be a great Tank.
Everyone but DK can be a great healer (but they're OP as Tanks and DPS, so this is okay.)
You can literally make all of them into whatever role you want and be viable.
I agree , with you , they can be made viable , but that does not mean they are on the same standing.
DKs ARE the best tanks , we cant really have a serious discussion where we point other classes ...
Nope , they ARE the best tanks.
Sure you can do it with other classes to a point , but if i want the best tank, i want DK.
And this is the problem to me , they need to balance this to a point where classes are not only viable , but they have a similar potential.
Again , i can understand the game is new , and this will takes a while , but if they take too long , i will be gone.
Only alternative to that i would take to keep playing , is if they sell class changes , so people can just jump to whatever they want. But like i said , im not lvling an entire new char just because of this.
But then again , that is me , one player."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
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This would be why they don't come forward and say it..Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Then i just want them to come foward and say it.
I will just cancel my sub , im not saying that they need to change their vision , im just asking that they tell us this now.
Instead they post vague information about "The Road Ahead"
Which im told from my secret sources.. its a 3 year plan.. not a 12 month plan.
They are going to try and sneakily drag this puppy out for as long as they can and take their time doing it, they have nothing to lose with fanboys right?
Well , i do intend to give them sometime , im still vet3, and i understand balance is hard, but if they dont fix this in a resonable time , then i will just leave.
I follow both ES and FO franchises, still im not on the blind fanboy level :P."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
LadyChaos✭✭✭✭I understand how people claim templar are "best" healers because they have more heals to chose from... I don't agree with the philosophy but I see it.
A tank is HP/Mitigation and Taunt.
What does the DK have over the other classes in their own line along those lines, that is better than armor/weapon lines?Edited by LadyChaos on 6 May 2014 21:01VR2 Ataxia - [NA] Veteran Dominion Sorcerer [Auriel's Bow]
PvP, PvE, Crafting, and General Shenanigans
Sorcery and Mayhem online since 1999
Current PvP Class/Supernatural Census0 -
7788b14_ESO✭✭✭jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »Can't have a balanced game without nerfing, if you just keep buffing everything you end up with npcs that have millions of hitpoints and take an hour to kill.
That's the problem, why buff/nerf pve when it's not a problem? No need to buff/nerf npcs when the problem is with pvp.
The problem with nerfing is it becomes an endless cycle of nerfs and buffs. The next thing will now be a cry for the next op class to be nerfed, and on and on. Players get tired of this especially with limited respecs and leave. Then the game dies cause players cry pvp is empty.Edited by 7788b14_ESO on 6 May 2014 21:251 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do I have to wait 1 second of my 2.9 sec invis to stun someone? NBs are Balanced razor sharp atm. I think that's another reason we see so many bugs and delays. They are killers.Edited by TheBull on 6 May 2014 22:04Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0 -
Niffo✭✭✭7788b14_ESO wrote: »jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »Can't have a balanced game without nerfing, if you just keep buffing everything you end up with npcs that have millions of hitpoints and take an hour to kill.
That's the problem, why buff/nerf pve when it's not a problem? No need to buff/nerf npcs when the problem is with pvp.
The problem with nerfing is it becomes an endless cycle of nerfs and buffs. The next thing will now be a cry for the next op class to be nerfed, and on and on. Players get tired of this especially with limited respecs and leave. Then the game dies cause players cry pvp is empty.
PvP is a major part of the game, if it was just some arena type stuff then it wouldn't be important. The pvp balance can't be ignored and it always interferes with pve which is crappy since seperating skills for pvp and pve would take more effort than most devs are willing to put in. What you're left with is trying to balance pvp while trying to keep people viable in pve.0 -
RaZaddha✭✭✭7788b14_ESO wrote: »jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »Can't have a balanced game without nerfing, if you just keep buffing everything you end up with npcs that have millions of hitpoints and take an hour to kill.
That's the problem, why buff/nerf pve when it's not a problem? No need to buff/nerf npcs when the problem is with pvp.
The problem with nerfing is it becomes an endless cycle of nerfs and buffs. The next thing will now be a cry for the next op class to be nerfed, and on and on. Players get tired of this especially with limited respecs and leave. Then the game dies cause players cry pvp is empty.
And when the players cries doesn't get heard they get mad and curser the company for never listening, and on and on. Players get tired of this especially with limited respecs and leave. Then the game dies cause players cry pvp is empty.
Its a double edged sword, you don't try to balance, people will leave, you try too hard to balance, people will leave. Unless they separate pve from pvp balance, but they dont do it "because reasons"Edited by RaZaddha on 7 May 2014 00:411 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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Separate is the worst imo, I hate it. I do think devs should have the ability to tweek coefficients for some skills differently for pvp and pve though.7788b14_ESO wrote: »jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »Can't have a balanced game without nerfing, if you just keep buffing everything you end up with npcs that have millions of hitpoints and take an hour to kill.
That's the problem, why buff/nerf pve when it's not a problem? No need to buff/nerf npcs when the problem is with pvp.
The problem with nerfing is it becomes an endless cycle of nerfs and buffs. The next thing will now be a cry for the next op class to be nerfed, and on and on. Players get tired of this especially with limited respecs and leave. Then the game dies cause players cry pvp is empty.
And when the players cries doesn't get heard they get mad and curser the company for never listening, and on and on. Players get tired of this especially with limited respecs and leave. Then the game dies cause players cry pvp is empty.
Its a double edged sword, you don't try to balance, people will leave, you try too hard to balance, people will leave. Unless they separate pve from pvp balance, but they dont do it "because reasons"Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0
