No incentive to earn emperor anymore, no health buff granted for holding emp now. What's up?

UnabashedlyHonest · June 2023

Is this another bug? Or was the faction health bonus for holding emp removed without mentioning the change in the patch notes?

With no faction health bonus for earning emp there is zero incentive to work towards getting emp.

Is this a bug? Why would we push to gain emperor now with there being zero rewards for getting it now?

This feels like further chipping away at the PvP community.

@ZOS_Kevin

@ZOS_GinaBruno

ProudMary · June 2023

Is this a bug or not? We need to hear from ZOS about this.

It can't possibly be on purpose to remove the only reason to get emp.

@ZOS_Kevin

@ZOS_GinaBruno

OBJnoob · June 2023

If it's a bug then it should be fixed.

But I'm confused why this is the only reason to get emp. What about the title? Achievement? Dye stamp? Knowing you did it? Being super strong and slaughtering enemies? Helping your faction win the campaign?

Honestly... Some things in cyrodiil need to change. Max health on your average player is super high and being complained about a lot. Maybe eliminating certain unique buffs to HP is a good idea. Particularly if those players already have an advantage. The advantage being that they have an Emperor on their team of course... Not to mention whatever advantages they maybe been enjoying when they managed to take all the emp keeps without even having Emp.

Mind you I'm not trying to defend undocumented changes to the game. But if it turns out it was on purpose... Maybe it isn't the worst thing in the world?

Janni · June 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

If it's a bug then it should be fixed.

But I'm confused why this is the only reason to get emp. What about the title? Achievement? Dye stamp? Knowing you did it? Being super strong and slaughtering enemies? Helping your faction win the campaign?

Honestly... Some things in cyrodiil need to change. Max health on your average player is super high and being complained about a lot. Maybe eliminating certain unique buffs to HP is a good idea. Particularly if those players already have an advantage. The advantage being that they have an Emperor on their team of course... Not to mention whatever advantages they maybe been enjoying when they managed to take all the emp keeps without even having Emp.

Mind you I'm not trying to defend undocumented changes to the game. But if it turns out it was on purpose... Maybe it isn't the worst thing in the world?

I think they are referring to the passive bonus that all players on the faction of the emperor also receive.

disintegr8 · June 2023

I'm not sure many people go for Emp for the benefit of their alliance, although it might provide an excuse for some people who seem to spend their whole life in the same campaign, seemingly hogging Emp for themselves.

While owning keeps and resources helps your alliance score points, getting Emp seems to be more of a personal goal for most people.

OBJnoob · June 2023

Janni wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

If it's a bug then it should be fixed.

But I'm confused why this is the only reason to get emp. What about the title? Achievement? Dye stamp? Knowing you did it? Being super strong and slaughtering enemies? Helping your faction win the campaign?

Honestly... Some things in cyrodiil need to change. Max health on your average player is super high and being complained about a lot. Maybe eliminating certain unique buffs to HP is a good idea. Particularly if those players already have an advantage. The advantage being that they have an Emperor on their team of course... Not to mention whatever advantages they maybe been enjoying when they managed to take all the emp keeps without even having Emp.

Mind you I'm not trying to defend undocumented changes to the game. But if it turns out it was on purpose... Maybe it isn't the worst thing in the world?

I think they are referring to the passive bonus that all players on the faction of the emperor also receive.

Yes I know. It isn't the only reason to get Emp. And my argument is that maybe giving the current strongest faction extra HP was never a good idea.

ProudMary · June 2023

Whether you think it's a good change or not, the customer base deserves a response from ZOS.

Is this change a bug or not? Did they make this change on purpose?

Why would ZOS be ignoring this valid question?

I totally agree with the OP. Emperor is not something a person can obtain with out a great deal of cooperation from the faction. And there is no reason for the faction to help obtain emperor if there is nothing in it for them. A title and a costume for one person who's not themselves is never going to be enough motivation to get a faction to help obtain emperor.

This change, if deliberate, is another huge disincentive to PvP.

The customers deserve an answer to this simple question; is this change a bug or intentional.

That's all. Just a simple response to a simple question is all that is required here. There is no legitimate reason to refuse to respond to the question.

@ZOS_Kevin

@ZOS_GinaBruno

jaws343 · June 2023

There were Emp changes a few patches ago? Update 36

"Emperor Scaling in Cyrodiil
The Health bonus for having an Emperor crowned for your Alliance will now scale depending on how many “home” or “natively owned” Keeps you have controlled by your alliance. For example, if you own all 6 of your home Keeps you’ll get the full bonus as Emperor, but for each of those you don’t own, the health bonus is reduced.

The Emperor Passives also now scale in a similar way to the Alliance wide health bonus. For each of the 6 home Keeps your Alliance owns, the bonus will be up to its full value. For each one that is not owned by your Alliance, the passive benefits are reduced."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/620696/pc-mac-patch-notes-v8-2-5-firesong-update-36

ProudMary · June 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

There were Emp changes a few patches ago? Update 36

"Emperor Scaling in Cyrodiil
The Health bonus for having an Emperor crowned for your Alliance will now scale depending on how many “home” or “natively owned” Keeps you have controlled by your alliance. For example, if you own all 6 of your home Keeps you’ll get the full bonus as Emperor, but for each of those you don’t own, the health bonus is reduced.

The Emperor Passives also now scale in a similar way to the Alliance wide health bonus. For each of the 6 home Keeps your Alliance owns, the bonus will be up to its full value. For each one that is not owned by your Alliance, the passive benefits are reduced."

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/620696/pc-mac-patch-notes-v8-2-5-firesong-update-36

This is not the case today. This change was made with update 38 (with Necrom) They either removed all bonuses for holding emp all together or it's a bug. Judging by the way ZOS is refusing to respond to the simple question "is this a bug or an intentional change or not?" It seems likely this change was intended and no mention of the change was made in the patch notes precisely because they realize how unpopular of a change this will be with the PvP community.

YandereGirlfriend · June 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

Janni wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

If it's a bug then it should be fixed.

But I'm confused why this is the only reason to get emp. What about the title? Achievement? Dye stamp? Knowing you did it? Being super strong and slaughtering enemies? Helping your faction win the campaign?

Honestly... Some things in cyrodiil need to change. Max health on your average player is super high and being complained about a lot. Maybe eliminating certain unique buffs to HP is a good idea. Particularly if those players already have an advantage. The advantage being that they have an Emperor on their team of course... Not to mention whatever advantages they maybe been enjoying when they managed to take all the emp keeps without even having Emp.

Mind you I'm not trying to defend undocumented changes to the game. But if it turns out it was on purpose... Maybe it isn't the worst thing in the world?

I think they are referring to the passive bonus that all players on the faction of the emperor also receive.

Yes I know. It isn't the only reason to get Emp. And my argument is that maybe giving the current strongest faction extra HP was never a good idea.

SO MUCH THIS.

Getting a faction emperor is a fairly clear "Rich Get Richer" or "Win Harder" type situation that only punches downward against the other factions. TBH, it is the same with the Scroll buffs.

A better system would do the opposite - provide buffs to the under-populated (and/or sides with few of their own keeps/Scrolls) sides to allow them to better compete against the current population leader.

OBJnoob · June 2023

I agree that ZOS should clarify what exactly happened and if it's intentional or not. But I still think it may be worth examining if it's good or not. Unexpected things can be good sometimes.

Marcus684 · June 2023

Having your alliance holding emp has always been of dubious benefit. Is a handful of extra health (at best) worth the other 2 factions ganging up on you to dethrone? If ZOS deleted the alliance health bonus then there is literally zero benefit to the faction for one of it's members to get emp.

OBJnoob · June 2023

The main benefit is supposed to be that you own the majority of the map and therefore accumulate the most points towards winning the campaign.

The fact that nobody cares about this speaks volumes.

Getting Emp or, more to the point, having an Emp is supposed to be a way to help you keep it. But it shouldn't be the objective. The objective is to own castles.

So someone will now say "but having more HP is a way to take more castles too!" And this is true and a fair point. But the fact this desire has been phrased every way EXCEPT this way, until now, is telling of what the real priorities are.

Sometimes what you don't say is just as important as what you do say.

SaffronCitrusflower · June 2023

Is this a bug or intended? There is no mention of the change in the patch notes.

Please just respond to the legitimate question ZOS.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror

Veinblood1965 · June 2023

It's an "Enhancement".

SaffronCitrusflower · June 2023

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

It's an "Enhancement".

What's the problem with telling us whether or not the removal of the faction health buff for achieving emp is a bug or intended?

There is no mention of this change in the patch notes.

The removal of the faction health buff for achieving emp is the removal of one of the primary objectives in cyrodiil, and the removal of one of the motivations to PvP.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror

ProudMary · June 2023

I guess we can chalk up the complete lack of response to the "bug or intended" question as slap #3 to the face after the removal of a campaign of rewards and the removal of the faction health bonus for obtaining emp. Getting the faction health bonus for emp was one of the primary goals in Cyrodiil, now it's gone. There hasn't been a queue for NA Grey Host during prime time once since U38 dropped. Sure, a lot of people are playing new zones, but this treatment and these changes are not helping and will have a lasting impact on the PvP player base.

This is not the kind of treatment that inspires confidence or endearment in the customer base.

Reverb · June 2023

This patch was pretty much a kick in the teeth to the pvp community.

But Arcanist, right?

SaffronCitrusflower · June 2023

Reverb wrote: »

This patch was pretty much a kick in the teeth to the pvp community.

But Arcanist, right?

Exactly. But the blatant ignoring of legitimate inquiries is a pattern that reflects very poorly on the company as a whole.

ProudMary · June 2023

Please just tell us if this is a bug or intended. The silence on this is not constructive at all.

@ZOS_Kevin

@ZOS_GinaBruno

magus.septim · June 2023

This is 100% a bug.
Today, emp gives exactly zero health bonus, regardless of the configuration of the map.
PVP'ers are second class citizens in ZOS view of things, and it absolutely shows.
There was an entire stretch of months in recent history where the emperor himself received no bonuses whatsoever, despite being emperor. Imagine being emp, and receiving no personal emp bonuses.
When it comes to massive PVP bugs like this, ZOS strategy is not to acknowledge it, so don't expect to hear anything.
They will silently resolve it one day without any mentions.

RevJJ · June 2023

ProudMary wrote: »

Please just tell us if this is a bug or intended. The silence on this is not constructive at all.

@ZOS_Kevin

@ZOS_GinaBruno

It should be clear by now from the recent decisions made with regards to pvp (this topic, “end of campaign” rewards) that ZOS considers pvp to be the ugly step child that they wish they could forget about. I mean, that was already very obvious before but it’s come to a point where they’re only one step away from outright saying “we want pvp-ers to quit the game”.

SaffronCitrusflower · June 2023

magus.septim wrote: »

This is 100% a bug.
Today, emp gives exactly zero health bonus, regardless of the configuration of the map.
PVP'ers are second class citizens in ZOS view of things, and it absolutely shows.
There was an entire stretch of months in recent history where the emperor himself received no bonuses whatsoever, despite being emperor. Imagine being emp, and receiving no personal emp bonuses.
When it comes to massive PVP bugs like this, ZOS strategy is not to acknowledge it, so don't expect to hear anything.
They will silently resolve it one day without any mentions.

Please post a link to any mention of this change anywhere by any official ZOS representative.

I'm confident they made this change without mentioning the change in the patch notes because they know full well how unpopular this change would be. It's taking away one of the main objectives in Cyrodiil. It's giving PvP players one less reason to PvP.

ProudMary · July 2023

Any word from ZOS about this yet?

GooGa592 · July 2023

Has ZOS made any comments anywhere about whether or not this change is intentional or a bug? Or are they just ignoring the topic all together for some reason?