Tone Down Siege

Elendir2am · January 2023

BlakMarket wrote: »

Siege does the bare minimum to any semi competent ball group, how do I know? I've personally played the play style or head over to twitch and watch ballgroups who stream & you'll see first hand how siege does the bare minimum.

If you put enough pressure on ball-group, it don't have any highly visible change in behavior.
But there is one subtle but significant change. They are forced to be more defensive.
One siege isn't problem for them, but I assure you that they suffer significantly, if they get hit by several of them.

For example, today PC EU GH. AD ball-group get in King.
I was part of 20 head zerg.
When they started with ram on gate in oil field, I bombed them (I have high AoE burst build for this purpose).
They was forced to withdraw from gate because of sieges and we burned all their sieges.
They moved on one tower and started with balistas from there.
Meatball from keep and I had restored ultimate so I bombed them again.
They was forced to withdraw again.
All that time, they had good health level, majority has 100 %, some decreased to 75% but get healed immediately.
And they regularly did their farming of zerg.
This was repeating for some time, balistas, ram, balistas and it was so tedious. Yet they get bored and left keep.
It was tedious. I had to recover ultimate fast, so I could hit them every time they tried to nest with sieges somewhere.
We was able to defend keep against ball-group without some super numbers and it was thanks to sieges and also thanks to fact, that we know what is important at which time.
They was targeted with sieges in open space and we burned their sieges at moment we could do it.

This ball-group would be free to do anything they wish, without sieges at their present power.
Somebody would love it probably, but where is PvP then, when opposite sides don't have any way to counter-fight.

BlakMarket · January 2023

Elendir2am wrote: »

BlakMarket wrote: »

Siege does the bare minimum to any semi competent ball group, how do I know? I've personally played the play style or head over to twitch and watch ballgroups who stream & you'll see first hand how siege does the bare minimum.

If you put enough pressure on ball-group, it don't have any highly visible change in behavior.
But there is one subtle but significant change. They are forced to be more defensive.
One siege isn't problem for them, but I assure you that they suffer significantly, if they get hit by several of them.

For example, today PC EU GH. AD ball-group get in King.
I was part of 20 head zerg.
When they started with ram on gate in oil field, I bombed them (I have high AoE burst build for this purpose).
They was forced to withdraw from gate because of sieges and we burned all their sieges.
They moved on one tower and started with balistas from there.
Meatball from keep and I had restored ultimate so I bombed them again.
They was forced to withdraw again.
All that time, they had good health level, majority has 100 %, some decreased to 75% but get healed immediately.
And they regularly did their farming of zerg.
This was repeating for some time, balistas, ram, balistas and it was so tedious. Yet they get bored and left keep.
It was tedious. I had to recover ultimate fast, so I could hit them every time they tried to nest with sieges somewhere.
We was able to defend keep against ball-group without some super numbers and it was thanks to sieges and also thanks to fact, that we know what is important at which time.
They was targeted with sieges in open space and we burned their sieges at moment we could do it.

This ball-group would be free to do anything they wish, without sieges at their present power.
Somebody would love it probably, but where is PvP then, when opposite sides don't have any way to counter-fight.

Ballgroups or stacking hots needs a thread of its own, as they dont run 24/7 but siege being op is a 24/7 issue. Stacking hots needs to be adjusted, for example a diminishing return system on abilities like echoing vigor - every time it is cast from a different player, the less effective it gets in group.

With the nerfs to healing the last two patches and no longer being able to dodge roll and block ticks, siege need to be adjusted accordingly also sets, cp and mythics should not buff siege - cold fire should not tick for 10-12k per second.

Alchimiste1 · January 2023

There is so much wrong with ball groups but this thread isn't for that.

I'm just saying maybe 68k worth of damage from 1 siege isn't the most balanced mechanic. Tone down siege, I didn't say gut it.

BlakMarket · January 2023

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

There is so much wrong with ball groups but this thread isn't for that.

I'm just saying maybe 68k worth of damage from 1 siege isn't the most balanced mechanic. Tone down siege, I didn't say gut it.

Its sad people even push back on siege not being a problem for health of pvp.

Kartalin · January 2023

One ultimate ability hits you for 5k damage but then some rando that farmed dolmens for an bit presses left click once and hits you for 14 times as much as the ultimate and can do it again immediately.

#Balance

TheMightyRevan · February 2023

let's not forget about the insane debuffs you get from oil/meatbags/scattershot, which havent been balanced since they nerfed all of the major/minor buffs. Ofc siege is overtuned, because you wont get 30% dmg reduction from major protection anymore but you still take 30% more dmg when hit by a scattershot.

Theignson · February 2023

Siege damage increased markedly in last few months. especially oils and Cold fire.

I think it is due to Elf Bane and maybe some other set.

But elf bane is causing cold fire to tick up to 6 times vs 3.

I can't figure out if this is intended, and I can't find any statement about it. But in the past, siege was not affected by set items and most sets (eg valkyn skoria) will not be triggered by siege.

Flangdoodle · February 2023

Theignson wrote: »

Siege damage increased markedly in last few months. especially oils and Cold fire.

I think it is due to Elf Bane and maybe some other set.

But elf bane is causing cold fire to tick up to 6 times vs 3.

I can't figure out if this is intended, and I can't find any statement about it. But in the past, siege was not affected by set items and most sets (eg valkyn skoria) will not be triggered by siege.

Vicious Death can also be procked by siege. Elf Bane +Vicious Death = OUCH.

Let's put it this way: if there are entire builds created around amplifying siege damage (and there are) something needs to change.

Marcus684 · February 2023

Flangdoodle wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Siege damage increased markedly in last few months. especially oils and Cold fire.

I think it is due to Elf Bane and maybe some other set.

But elf bane is causing cold fire to tick up to 6 times vs 3.

I can't figure out if this is intended, and I can't find any statement about it. But in the past, siege was not affected by set items and most sets (eg valkyn skoria) will not be triggered by siege.

Vicious Death can also be procked by siege. Elf Bane +Vicious Death = OUCH.

Let's put it this way: if there are entire builds created around amplifying siege damage (and there are) something needs to change.

I saw this first-hand over this past weekend, and fell victim to it once. Someone with a cold fire ballista was hitting people with 5 damage ticks and they were exploding upon death.

I’m going to guess that this wasn’t intended and is actually a bug, which would mean that those making use of it are exploiting the bug. Only ZOS knows for sure though, so all we can do is report it.

Crispen_Longbow · February 2023

Marcus684 wrote: »

Flangdoodle wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Siege damage increased markedly in last few months. especially oils and Cold fire.

I think it is due to Elf Bane and maybe some other set.

But elf bane is causing cold fire to tick up to 6 times vs 3.

I can't figure out if this is intended, and I can't find any statement about it. But in the past, siege was not affected by set items and most sets (eg valkyn skoria) will not be triggered by siege.

Vicious Death can also be procked by siege. Elf Bane +Vicious Death = OUCH.

Let's put it this way: if there are entire builds created around amplifying siege damage (and there are) something needs to change.

I saw this first-hand over this past weekend, and fell victim to it once. Someone with a cold fire ballista was hitting people with 5 damage ticks and they were exploding upon death.

I’m going to guess that this wasn’t intended and is actually a bug, which would mean that those making use of it are exploiting the bug. Only ZOS knows for sure though, so all we can do is report it.

Only 5 Damage ticks, those are rookie numbers need to pump that damage up!!!

geonsocal · February 2023

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

Flangdoodle wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Siege damage increased markedly in last few months. especially oils and Cold fire.

I think it is due to Elf Bane and maybe some other set.

But elf bane is causing cold fire to tick up to 6 times vs 3.

I can't figure out if this is intended, and I can't find any statement about it. But in the past, siege was not affected by set items and most sets (eg valkyn skoria) will not be triggered by siege.

Vicious Death can also be procked by siege. Elf Bane +Vicious Death = OUCH.

Let's put it this way: if there are entire builds created around amplifying siege damage (and there are) something needs to change.

I saw this first-hand over this past weekend, and fell victim to it once. Someone with a cold fire ballista was hitting people with 5 damage ticks and they were exploding upon death.

I’m going to guess that this wasn’t intended and is actually a bug, which would mean that those making use of it are exploiting the bug. Only ZOS knows for sure though, so all we can do is report it.

Only 5 Damage ticks, those are rookie numbers need to pump that damage up!!!

that is so beautiful - I love seiging on folks 😍

Theignson · February 2023

The increased damage doesn't make a dent in ball groups running with 8-10 hots, 40k health and continuous siege shield.

But it is deadly to the poor, disorganized pugs running around without all those benefits. Most PUGS will not place a siege shield on a keep door. So some enterprising soul with elf bane can destroy them with oils. It seems to me oils can stack if they come from two different oil pots. In that scenario, if not in a ball group very hard to heal through.

I still suspect this was a stealth buff by ZOS, but since they wont answer, how can we know if it is intended?

Holycannoli · February 2023

Elf Bane and Vicious Death should not affect or be affected by siege. That's one of the problems.

No set should affect siege unless it's specifically designed to do so, and no set is specifically designed to do so.

I don't want siege nerfed though. It's my favorite part of Cyrodiil. Without it it's just ball groups fighting each other. I love the idea of requiring offensive siege to counter defensive siege, and needing to breach more than one wall to capture a well-defended keep. That's how it should be. But sets affecting siege is not how it should be.

Necrotech_Master · February 2023

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

And0ssus · February 2023

If Sieges wouldn't ignore Resistances, it wouldn't be such a Problem.
It would probably underperform then in some Cases, but that they ignore Resistances shouldn't be imo.

TheMightyRevan · February 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

Necrotech_Master · February 2023

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

if i get killed by siege then i was in a bad position/bad timing to get through a choke point lol

if i had actual stronger heals in my build, or using something maras then could probably ignore siege entirely

TheMightyRevan · February 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

if i get killed by siege then i was in a bad position/bad timing to get through a choke point lol

if i had actual stronger heals in my build, or using something maras then could probably ignore siege entirely

maybe if your understanding of cyro pvp is picking off singular players in a town and avoiding any big fights where ppl actually place siege on you specifically

Necrotech_Master · February 2023

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

if i get killed by siege then i was in a bad position/bad timing to get through a choke point lol

if i had actual stronger heals in my build, or using something maras then could probably ignore siege entirely

maybe if your understanding of cyro pvp is picking off singular players in a town and avoiding any big fights where ppl actually place siege on you specifically

my understanding of cyro is full on keep battles, i pretty much never see siege used in the towns, i dont even use siege to take over a resource (i know people who use them to clear guards but i dont, its a waste of time)

i die cause i try to help a push into a keep and im getting hit by 2-4 different siege along with whatever skills are being spammed, the siege is the only thing stopping pushes like that otherwise nobody would be able to defend a keep if there were even numbered forces without siege

siege is way too slow most of the time (setup, fire and hit, and when it does hit it feels like a wet noodle in most cases)

when i see 1 single person fighting 6 allies, and i shoot them with a normal fire ballista and it hardly changes the fight, siege is not doing enough

there are times when i hit someone with a fire ballista and they start running around spamming heals cause its taking chunks of health, thats a poorly built squishy player

(and yes im talking about the normal fire ballista you can buy from siege merchant, not a coldfire, coldfire i think does appropriate amount of dmg)

lancers and coldfire i think are the only appropriate dmg siege, almost everything else feels ineffective unless its stacked 4-6x in a choke point like a door to stop people from pushing

TheMightyRevan · February 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

if i get killed by siege then i was in a bad position/bad timing to get through a choke point lol

if i had actual stronger heals in my build, or using something maras then could probably ignore siege entirely

maybe if your understanding of cyro pvp is picking off singular players in a town and avoiding any big fights where ppl actually place siege on you specifically

my understanding of cyro is full on keep battles, i pretty much never see siege used in the towns, i dont even use siege to take over a resource (i know people who use them to clear guards but i dont, its a waste of time)

i die cause i try to help a push into a keep and im getting hit by 2-4 different siege along with whatever skills are being spammed, the siege is the only thing stopping pushes like that otherwise nobody would be able to defend a keep if there were even numbered forces without siege

siege is way too slow most of the time (setup, fire and hit, and when it does hit it feels like a wet noodle in most cases)

when i see 1 single person fighting 6 allies, and i shoot them with a normal fire ballista and it hardly changes the fight, siege is not doing enough

there are times when i hit someone with a fire ballista and they start running around spamming heals cause its taking chunks of health, thats a poorly built squishy player

(and yes im talking about the normal fire ballista you can buy from siege merchant, not a coldfire, coldfire i think does appropriate amount of dmg)

lancers and coldfire i think are the only appropriate dmg siege, almost everything else feels ineffective unless its stacked 4-6x in a choke point like a door to stop people from pushing

if you hit someone with a coldfire, while they have 5 enemies on them, they are dead. Its definetely doing way too much.

VaranisArano · February 2023

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

if i get killed by siege then i was in a bad position/bad timing to get through a choke point lol

if i had actual stronger heals in my build, or using something maras then could probably ignore siege entirely

maybe if your understanding of cyro pvp is picking off singular players in a town and avoiding any big fights where ppl actually place siege on you specifically

my understanding of cyro is full on keep battles, i pretty much never see siege used in the towns, i dont even use siege to take over a resource (i know people who use them to clear guards but i dont, its a waste of time)

i die cause i try to help a push into a keep and im getting hit by 2-4 different siege along with whatever skills are being spammed, the siege is the only thing stopping pushes like that otherwise nobody would be able to defend a keep if there were even numbered forces without siege

siege is way too slow most of the time (setup, fire and hit, and when it does hit it feels like a wet noodle in most cases)

when i see 1 single person fighting 6 allies, and i shoot them with a normal fire ballista and it hardly changes the fight, siege is not doing enough

there are times when i hit someone with a fire ballista and they start running around spamming heals cause its taking chunks of health, thats a poorly built squishy player

(and yes im talking about the normal fire ballista you can buy from siege merchant, not a coldfire, coldfire i think does appropriate amount of dmg)

lancers and coldfire i think are the only appropriate dmg siege, almost everything else feels ineffective unless its stacked 4-6x in a choke point like a door to stop people from pushing

if you hit someone with a coldfire, while they have 5 enemies on them, they are dead. Its definetely doing way too much.

Flip it the other way, and five+ players couldn't kill you without resorting to siege.

Something's unbalanced there. Maybe its the skill gap, since most successful 1vX relies on fighting players who don't know what they're doing. Or maybe its that we're in an update where ZOS has made 1vX/small group PVP builds that only fear coldfire siege.

We've got multiple players here complaining "I would've won that outnumbered fight if not for siege weapons," and who's takeaway is "Siege killed me. It should be nerfed so the players I 1vX have no chance at all."

TheMightyRevan · February 2023

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

if i get killed by siege then i was in a bad position/bad timing to get through a choke point lol

if i had actual stronger heals in my build, or using something maras then could probably ignore siege entirely

maybe if your understanding of cyro pvp is picking off singular players in a town and avoiding any big fights where ppl actually place siege on you specifically

my understanding of cyro is full on keep battles, i pretty much never see siege used in the towns, i dont even use siege to take over a resource (i know people who use them to clear guards but i dont, its a waste of time)

i die cause i try to help a push into a keep and im getting hit by 2-4 different siege along with whatever skills are being spammed, the siege is the only thing stopping pushes like that otherwise nobody would be able to defend a keep if there were even numbered forces without siege

siege is way too slow most of the time (setup, fire and hit, and when it does hit it feels like a wet noodle in most cases)

when i see 1 single person fighting 6 allies, and i shoot them with a normal fire ballista and it hardly changes the fight, siege is not doing enough

there are times when i hit someone with a fire ballista and they start running around spamming heals cause its taking chunks of health, thats a poorly built squishy player

(and yes im talking about the normal fire ballista you can buy from siege merchant, not a coldfire, coldfire i think does appropriate amount of dmg)

lancers and coldfire i think are the only appropriate dmg siege, almost everything else feels ineffective unless its stacked 4-6x in a choke point like a door to stop people from pushing

if you hit someone with a coldfire, while they have 5 enemies on them, they are dead. Its definetely doing way too much.

Flip it the other way, and five+ players couldn't kill you without resorting to siege.

Something's unbalanced there. Maybe its the skill gap, since most successful 1vX relies on fighting players who don't know what they're doing. Or maybe its that we're in an update where ZOS has made 1vX/small group PVP builds that only fear coldfire siege.

We've got multiple players here complaining "I would've won that outnumbered fight if not for siege weapons," and who's takeaway is "Siege killed me. It should be nerfed so the players I 1vX have no chance at all."

more misrepresentation of what people say here against siege. Ofc 1vXers die without siege impact aswell, all the time, as they should, dieing is part of the pvp game experience. its an objective fact, siege is doing too much no matter the amount of players you fight

Necrotech_Master · February 2023

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

if i get killed by siege then i was in a bad position/bad timing to get through a choke point lol

if i had actual stronger heals in my build, or using something maras then could probably ignore siege entirely

maybe if your understanding of cyro pvp is picking off singular players in a town and avoiding any big fights where ppl actually place siege on you specifically

my understanding of cyro is full on keep battles, i pretty much never see siege used in the towns, i dont even use siege to take over a resource (i know people who use them to clear guards but i dont, its a waste of time)

i die cause i try to help a push into a keep and im getting hit by 2-4 different siege along with whatever skills are being spammed, the siege is the only thing stopping pushes like that otherwise nobody would be able to defend a keep if there were even numbered forces without siege

siege is way too slow most of the time (setup, fire and hit, and when it does hit it feels like a wet noodle in most cases)

when i see 1 single person fighting 6 allies, and i shoot them with a normal fire ballista and it hardly changes the fight, siege is not doing enough

there are times when i hit someone with a fire ballista and they start running around spamming heals cause its taking chunks of health, thats a poorly built squishy player

(and yes im talking about the normal fire ballista you can buy from siege merchant, not a coldfire, coldfire i think does appropriate amount of dmg)

lancers and coldfire i think are the only appropriate dmg siege, almost everything else feels ineffective unless its stacked 4-6x in a choke point like a door to stop people from pushing

if you hit someone with a coldfire, while they have 5 enemies on them, they are dead. Its definetely doing way too much.

Flip it the other way, and five+ players couldn't kill you without resorting to siege.

Something's unbalanced there. Maybe its the skill gap, since most successful 1vX relies on fighting players who don't know what they're doing. Or maybe its that we're in an update where ZOS has made 1vX/small group PVP builds that only fear coldfire siege.

We've got multiple players here complaining "I would've won that outnumbered fight if not for siege weapons," and who's takeaway is "Siege killed me. It should be nerfed so the players I 1vX have no chance at all."

this

if you can fight 5+ players in an open field without using cheese like LOS, then i applaud your skill

that said, if siege is needed to kill someone like that, i heavily agree that there is something way off balance as siege is in my opinion supposed to balance a situation where you are outnumbered, not the current situation where you need several siege + a half a dozen players to even take a single target down

VaranisArano · February 2023

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i always feel like siege is too weak, there are many times that a single fire ballista wont even dent a solo player

i play a stamblade in cyro with my only heals being vigor and dark cloak, and a single fire ballista wont kill me if thats the only dmg im taking (it gets more dicey with oils or coldfire, but again if im not taking any extra dmg i can usually survive it)

if you survived a fight long enough to take dmg from 2 different coldfire ballista, then survivability is OP and siege is horribly weak

"if thats the only dmg im taking". exactly, in 99% of the time its not the only dmg youre taking and then siege is deadly

if i get killed by siege then i was in a bad position/bad timing to get through a choke point lol

if i had actual stronger heals in my build, or using something maras then could probably ignore siege entirely

maybe if your understanding of cyro pvp is picking off singular players in a town and avoiding any big fights where ppl actually place siege on you specifically

my understanding of cyro is full on keep battles, i pretty much never see siege used in the towns, i dont even use siege to take over a resource (i know people who use them to clear guards but i dont, its a waste of time)

i die cause i try to help a push into a keep and im getting hit by 2-4 different siege along with whatever skills are being spammed, the siege is the only thing stopping pushes like that otherwise nobody would be able to defend a keep if there were even numbered forces without siege

siege is way too slow most of the time (setup, fire and hit, and when it does hit it feels like a wet noodle in most cases)

when i see 1 single person fighting 6 allies, and i shoot them with a normal fire ballista and it hardly changes the fight, siege is not doing enough

there are times when i hit someone with a fire ballista and they start running around spamming heals cause its taking chunks of health, thats a poorly built squishy player

(and yes im talking about the normal fire ballista you can buy from siege merchant, not a coldfire, coldfire i think does appropriate amount of dmg)

lancers and coldfire i think are the only appropriate dmg siege, almost everything else feels ineffective unless its stacked 4-6x in a choke point like a door to stop people from pushing

if you hit someone with a coldfire, while they have 5 enemies on them, they are dead. Its definetely doing way too much.

Flip it the other way, and five+ players couldn't kill you without resorting to siege.

Something's unbalanced there. Maybe its the skill gap, since most successful 1vX relies on fighting players who don't know what they're doing. Or maybe its that we're in an update where ZOS has made 1vX/small group PVP builds that only fear coldfire siege.

We've got multiple players here complaining "I would've won that outnumbered fight if not for siege weapons," and who's takeaway is "Siege killed me. It should be nerfed so the players I 1vX have no chance at all."

this

if you can fight 5+ players in an open field without using cheese like LOS, then i applaud your skill

that said, if siege is needed to kill someone like that, i heavily agree that there is something way off balance as siege is in my opinion supposed to balance a situation where you are outnumbered, not the current situation where you need several siege + a half a dozen players to even take a single target down

Eh, I don't think LOS is cheese. It's an extremely effective tactic when fighting outnumbered because it allows the 1 to pull the X apart from a larger group into a series of 1v1s, 1v2s, etc. so that incoming damage is very manageable.

On the flip side, you can't pull apart the siege into manageable chunks of damage and you can't LOS large AOE DOTs that paint the terrain you're running around. So siege is a pretty direct counter to an LOS-user's main strengths.

It's not like siege doesn't have counters. You can attack the players using siege or reposition the battlefield, even while fighting outnumbered. It's just that those tactics and counters don't play to the LOS-user's main strengths, so as far as I can tell, they'd rather ask for siege to be nerfed instead.

Thecompton73 · February 2023

My NB with 12K armor and only Vigor for a heal generally has few issues with siege. Doesn't mean he never dies to it, but I woulnd't say it's a problem because you're supposed to die to it sometimes. Generally however I avoid just avoid incoming ballista/treb fire and pay attention to when are where oils are being dumped and don't run under them at the wrong times.

Breakwell · April 2023

Change range siege shield morph to go on group members like rapids

merevie · April 2023

That's not normal siege damage -that's someone building specifically for it. If people run vampire and they catch on fire... or if they frustrate others due to continual troll-play... others should have a counter. Siege players also seldom tbag. Players also have to put up with 46k Plague...-that's the game.. There are enough 'unkillable' groups to validate high impact siege gameplay.

DUTCH_REAPER · April 2023

Shoot. Tune down healing. It is absolutely ridiculous.