Do Sorcerers Complain too much?

ForumBully · February 2023

StaticWave wrote: »

Is there a huge gap between the floor and the ceiling for sorc? Yes there is. Should we reduce the gap? Yes, we should to a certain extent to attract more players.

I’m not going to claim that my opinion is absolute - after all it’s just an opinion formed after playing the class through all types of content. However, I am confident that I can pin point the core issues of sorc, both stam and mag.

1) Lack of crit passives to synergize with Crit Surge, thereby leading to wasting other offensive stats to bring crit rate up

2) Lack of a proper burst heal for stamsorc, thereby forcing the class to play a hit an run playstyle. Now normally the lack of a burst heal would not be an issue back in the days because speed was rather difficult to get. Currently, speed is very easy to obtain as I can reach the speed cap on any class, which reduces the uniqueness of stamsorc. This no longer makes the hit and run playstyle as potent because everyone can catch up to you. You definitely need a burst heal now survive even in a hit and run build.

3) Some passives are just weird and don’t work with the whole kit. For example we have a passive that clearly pushes for more blocking like Persistence, but Sorc’s main sustain ability is a channel? Or a passive that increases Shock damage by 5%, but most of their offensive abilities are Magic/Physical damage?

Those are the 3 main issues that ZOS can easily address. Everything else DOES NOT MATTER AS MUCH. Yes, that includes buffs to shield or a source of Major Fracture or whatever. We don’t need them. If you can raise your crit chance to 50%, you’ve already increased your healing potential substantially with Crit Surge and actually don’t need to slot more heals. That’s how powerful Crit Surge is. You would also be able to crit more than other classes, thereby making your damage output much better than other classes. A burst heal would also make sorc much better and quite honestly, it would stop all the complaints about sorc defense if the class had a burst heal.

Obviously the class would need to be tweaked if these buff suggestions were implemented to keep the class balanced, but they honestly don’t need a lot of fixes. Anything else would make the class overperform, and we don’t want that to happen at all.

All of this is reasonable and would be a great start without going overboard with buffs.

AdamLAD · February 2023

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

ketsparrowhawk · February 2023

AdamLAD wrote: »

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

We have different definitions of what a good player is. Anyone who would pose a serious challenge 1v1 will make a 1vX completely impossible, performance issues aside. Yeah maybe they could get baited into a trap but then I question if they're truly a great player in that case.. as avoiding situations like that is part of it.

Howda · February 2023

Yes. Have you seen DK moving? No movement speed no mobility. But hits hard and can stand still and take few shots. Gets ultimate back and use it for sustain.

Sorcs don't have to care about sustain as much as DK. Plus with all the mobility and range it is hell of class.

I am only killed by a sorc on my DK.

Not sure what is the deal. Of course you will get nervous once melee comes closer. Not sure why you allowed that in the first place.

And about Mistform? Look at your own backyard pls. Mistform will never replace streak by far and no class is getting it now as alternative. It is slow and has different goal. Streak is instant..

StaticWave · February 2023

AdamLAD wrote: »

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

It is possible, but very difficult to pull off and usually happens when the good player doesn’t take it seriously and drops all buffs. It also depends on the class they zerg you with. Goodluck 1vXing a good player who’s on a magdk or a NB.

That scenario is very rare as well. If a good player zergs you, he’s usually the last one alive and it would just be a normal 1v1. If you can beat him in a 1v1 most of the time you can win the X. Otherwise you may fail the X or stalemate.

axi · February 2023

Katlefiya wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

- every class can mitigate damage, sorcs do it with shields and conditioned healing like having a pet or casting deal. U can't expect it to heal like a templar because also the templar doesn't have mobility like a sorc.
- streak is not comparable to new mist, problem is not distance cuz that can be covered with gap closer or sprint or range, problem is unavoidable stun that makes the sorc out of range while u breakfree.

In today's ESO. sorc's way of mitigating damage is inferior to that of all other classes, while our mobility advantage is miniscule. We might still be somewhat better at running away from a fight - which might upset people - but streak range is only 15m while templar's charge is 22m. If the first streak did stun you, than it was pointed in your direction, meaning the sorc will be even closer to you than 15m.

Streak stuns also people around the user including area behind him so no You don't have to stand on the way of streaking sorc to be stunned. Also since gap closers have 22 meters range and streak have a stun if sorc with his first streak ended up 7 or more meters away from You than before You break free and use gap closer sorc will usually use second streak and be out of gap cloer range before You would be able to use Your gap cloer.

AdamLAD · February 2023

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

We have different definitions of what a good player is. Anyone who would pose a serious challenge 1v1 will make a 1vX completely impossible, performance issues aside. Yeah maybe they could get baited into a trap but then I question if they're truly a great player in that case.. as avoiding situations like that is part of it.

It's depends, I don't consider anyone a big challenge in a 1v1. It's either I win or its a stalemate. The way the game is currently people are so tankiee is why this is the case. If the meta changed, this could be vastly different however. But throughout my years of eso, people who I know are good players in all PvP situations and I have 1vXd them a few times and 2vXd countless times

katorga · February 2023

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

- every class can mitigate damage, sorcs do it with shields and conditioned healing like having a pet or casting deal. U can't expect it to heal like a templar because also the templar doesn't have mobility like a sorc.
- streak is not comparable to new mist, problem is not distance cuz that can be covered with gap closer or sprint or range, problem is unavoidable stun that makes the sorc out of range while u breakfree.

class is fine and just got better, if u wanna play like a templar with stand ground and heal then go play templar !(?)?(!)

It is no longer 2018 summerset, NB is one of the top PvP classes and sorc is not in a good spot.

The last time Sorc was good was during the no-proc set tests.

Shields as a primary defense are obsolete, and have been for a while. The primary reason is that healing scales from your weapon/spell damage, which you are stacking anyway for your offense and proc sets. On top of that, no caps to healing size, heals can crit, more modifiers and bonuses to healing, and so on. It is just more efficient to block cast heals.

There are no max resources sets better than entry level. You have no options for a synonymn to Clever Alchemist that gives you 6000 mag or stam for 20s. And if there were, it wouldn't matter because shields are capped.

If foolishly decide to stack max resources, you get what, 11% bonuses (inner light 7%, undaunted 4%), while stacking spell/weapon damage you get over 50%. Plus hybridization made spell/weapon damage the most valuable stat. For most classes regen is essentially free. It makes more sense to stack spell/weapon damage and just enough mag or stam to get your rotation off. Your regen keeps your small pool topped off.

Block costs are insanely low, so way more efficient to block 70-80% of incoming damage vs a 12K damage shield that lasts 1 GCD of incoming damage.

Personally, I think even after the PTS changes Sorc shields will be obsolete.

Aside: ZOS has so focused the cost benefit analysis on pvp buildcraft to the that everyone runs essentially the same resource allocation and food. Sets are a contant, the top 5 are the top 5, and everyone runs them. The deciding factor has now become which CLASS has the most overloaded skills, major/minor buffs and passives and can stack the most function into 12 slots.

jaysins · February 2023

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Not a sorc main but I play one a fair amount and shred every time so I am not convinced they're in any kind of bad shape. Sorcs are unmatched regarding long-range offense + mobility and that should come with some weaknesses. To me it makes sense that healing/tankiness is their weakness.

They aren't. They've never been at the bottom of the tier list. They were definitely shadowed by OP classes like pre-nerfed templar and current DK, but they could hold their own against most builds and classes. If I were to rank them, I'd put them in the B+/A tier.

What baffles me is how most sorc mains refuse to accept that their class would be OP if ZOS decided to buff it using their suggestions. Sorc's playstyle hasn't changed over 5 years, yet it could still keep up with most classes. Any drastic buffs would push the class over the top like NB. NB's never been bad either, but these recent unnecessary buffs turned it into one of the strongest/borderline overperforming classes.

I think the issue is that a lot of people mix up "fixing the class" with "buffing the class"

In terms of actual buffs, I agree with you that just 2 actual straight up buffs are needed.
1. The option of a proper burst heal (honestly, at this point just make 1 of the shield morphs into a proper burst heal instead of a shield if they are that overly concerned about shield stacking with healing, this gives the option to choose a shield playstyle or go with a more standard build with healing).
2. More buff/debuff access (mostly for crit chance/crit damage modifiers (major prophecy/savagery and major or minor force) to synergise the kit properly with crit surge, the class HoT).

In terms of fixes, this is where sorc needs the most help. A general pass through of the abilities/passives to modernize and better synergize the class kit like what they did with dk, nb and most recently warden and combine/update/tidy up duplicate passives that are a relic of the past where the game was weaker and there was still a mag/stam split, where it made sense to split the passives into multiple slots for what they provided.
This would of course require some tooltips to be slightly reduced (by say 5-10%), but it would help a lot with bringing the class into a better spot for everyone and not just the few top players who are still able to make it work.
The pass through would not be a buff to tooltips or values and would quite likely bring a slight nerf to these raw values, but would strictly look at how the kit functions and synergizes compared to the other classes and where it can be improved in this aspect.

When it comes to ranking sorc, this is difficult to do because rankings are super subjective by nature and it depends on who is playing it. In the hands of a good player, the class can still be A+ tier, but in the hands of an average player, this is where it is a B- class at best. U35 was all about "reducing the skill gap" according to the devs own statements, yet the skill gap for sorc is currently at the highest it's ever been at and is significantly higher than the skill gap for every other class in the game, hence why you don't realistically see the class outside of the select few top players that still make the class work or in a ball group as a negate/heal/streak bot or in a zerg using a heavy attack + wrath build from keep walls. That shows that the class itself is not in a good spot, since the players that are playing it are either top tier and can make any class work or are not even bothering with 99% of the class kit.

The having a shield morph as a burst heal is actually pretty brilliant imo and your suggestions paired with static’s passive changes would really round out our kit nicely. I was thinking of a burst heal that solely scaled of weapon/spell damage and tuning shield scaling so you couldn’t effectively have a good burst heal and strong shields, as that would obviously be OP, but your idea would be easier to implement and likely work out better than any other solution I’ve heard proposed. And to expand on this, it’d be great if they made a morph of each pet a one bar skill where the pet just pops up and does something and goes away on its own as in the case of necros. Or it launch an attack, heal or buff instantly and then disappears into the ether. Would make that whole skill line more interesting and useful and one of the pet morphs could/should have a stam morph.

Having huge heals that can be combined with really strong defensive measures is a huge issue and why dks are so formidable. Them being able to block and mitigate a huge amount of damage while simultaneously healing for a lot makes bursting them in a 1v1 basically impossible with how high health is combined with the undeath passive. I think having burst heals being able to be cast while blocking is an issue and we should not be looking to replicate how op that is on our class with strong shields and healing being simultaneously possible to run. It’s unhealthy for pvp imo and I wish burst heals while blocking for all classes would be tuned down.

StaticWave · February 2023

AdamLAD wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

We have different definitions of what a good player is. Anyone who would pose a serious challenge 1v1 will make a 1vX completely impossible, performance issues aside. Yeah maybe they could get baited into a trap but then I question if they're truly a great player in that case.. as avoiding situations like that is part of it.

It's depends, I don't consider anyone a big challenge in a 1v1. It's either I win or its a stalemate. The way the game is currently people are so tankiee is why this is the case. If the meta changed, this could be vastly different however. But throughout my years of eso, people who I know are good players in all PvP situations and I have 1vXd them a few times and 2vXd countless times

Are you a console player? Just curious

PhoenixGrey · February 2023

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Everyone does with their innate bias about the class they enjoy the most, but as a sorcerer main yes they do. The things people want to do to the class on these forums would make the class absurdly powerful.

Sorc mains are up there with whining the most, probably only being beaten by nightblades in that regard. DK mains are by far the dumbest though, no debate.

If your business continues to ignore your most loyal and paying customers, there is either a riot or you lose those customers forever.

Some of us are just rioting. Some of us who actually knew to play this class have moved on.

So it’s all about shoot for the moon and you will land among the stars ⭐️

MetallicMonk · February 2023

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

If your business continues to ignore your most loyal and paying customers, there is either a riot or you lose those customers forever.

Some of us are just rioting. Some of us who actually knew to play this class have moved on.

So it’s all about shoot for the moon and you will land among the stars ⭐️

If you're insinuating you know the class more than me good meme.

Sergykid · February 2023

there actually are bg videos with people 1vx decent enemies, like former emps titles, 1500+cps, 5 star ranks, etc, i know these can be got by not good players but getting there should mean u r at least decent at pvp.
even i have some and I don't have many sorcs in my clips cuz mostly they run away or behind team, so not really interesting enough, but if they stay to fight they have a decent chance to win either against ranged magplar or melee dk

sorcs are like ad carry in league of lols, good pressure and mobility but need support for full potential, and now they will also get stronger shields on a health build

PhoenixGrey · February 2023

MetallicMonk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

If your business continues to ignore your most loyal and paying customers, there is either a riot or you lose those customers forever.

Some of us are just rioting. Some of us who actually knew to play this class have moved on.

So it’s all about shoot for the moon and you will land among the stars ⭐️

If you're insinuating you know the class more than me good meme.

Lol, no. I am talking about blowback.

However, what I do know is that my buff suggestions aren't over exaggerated. I asked for buffs which already existed at some point.

Only OG sorcs will know what i m talking about

There were more playstyles for mag sorc and more build diversity back then with less sets and less skill lines. All the below playstyles were equally effective
You could play dual wield sorc.
You could play with destro fire staff
You could play with destro ice staff
You could play pet sorc
You could play without dark conversion
You could play with 60k mag with 800 regen

Next patch we can play only 1 kind of sorc (not even a mag sorc) with 40k health doing oblivion damage. How is that acceptable to you ?

AdamLAD · February 2023

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

We have different definitions of what a good player is. Anyone who would pose a serious challenge 1v1 will make a 1vX completely impossible, performance issues aside. Yeah maybe they could get baited into a trap but then I question if they're truly a great player in that case.. as avoiding situations like that is part of it.

It's depends, I don't consider anyone a big challenge in a 1v1. It's either I win or its a stalemate. The way the game is currently people are so tankiee is why this is the case. If the meta changed, this could be vastly different however. But throughout my years of eso, people who I know are good players in all PvP situations and I have 1vXd them a few times and 2vXd countless times

Are you a console player? Just curious

Most certainly am. Xbox EU specifically. People from both servers know who I am. NA and EU. One day will make the jump to PC. Few of my friends went to PC NA and PC EU. So I'll hopefully get help setting it up

MurkyWetWolf198 · February 2023

Honestly, biggest thing that annoys me in this post is the absurd propositions complaining that "sorc mains do this" or "dk mains do that" or "nightblade mains say this". Like, there are too many players in this game to possibly think they all agree about certain points, and it's ridiculous to blame an entire group of people for the supposed issues only a minority display

Speak to your own experiences, speak to data, speak to logic, sure. But unrealistic homogenization and stereotyping is never a good thing.

ketsparrowhawk · February 2023

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

If your business continues to ignore your most loyal and paying customers, there is either a riot or you lose those customers forever.

Some of us are just rioting. Some of us who actually knew to play this class have moved on.

So it’s all about shoot for the moon and you will land among the stars ⭐️

If you're insinuating you know the class more than me good meme.

Lol, no. I am talking about blowback.

However, what I do know is that my buff suggestions aren't over exaggerated. I asked for buffs which already existed at some point.

Only OG sorcs will know what i m talking about

There were more playstyles for mag sorc and more build diversity back then with less sets and less skill lines. All the below playstyles were equally effective
You could play dual wield sorc.
You could play with destro fire staff
You could play with destro ice staff
You could play pet sorc
You could play without dark conversion
You could play with 60k mag with 800 regen

Next patch we can play only 1 kind of sorc (not even a mag sorc) with 40k health doing oblivion damage. How is that acceptable to you ?

This is perhaps hyperbolic. Hybridization has benefitted sorc build variety greatly. 2h and DW Stam-hybridSorcs have been doing extremely well for a while now. BowSorcs are also very good. Pet sorcs were buffed not long ago and (unfortunately) I see them a fair amount in BGs.

My magsorc won't resemble the build you described next patch at all. It's more or less a traditional magsorc (curse/fury/frags/zip zip zip). It's been performing great all along and I know it will perform well next patch too.

PhoenixGrey · February 2023

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

It's been performing great all along and I know it will perform well next patch too.

We wouldn't be having these conversations if it was

ketsparrowhawk · February 2023

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

It's been performing great all along and I know it will perform well next patch too.

We wouldn't be having these conversations if it was

lol are you telliing me how my build is performing? How would you know? I've never seen ur name in-game.

PhoenixGrey · February 2023

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

It's been performing great all along and I know it will perform well next patch too.

We wouldn't be having these conversations if it was

lol are you telliing me how my build is performing? How would you know? I've never seen ur name in-game.

I rarely play these days. If I do it’s a couple of bg’s on the weekends

And yeah, your build lacks defense and will get shredded in high MMR

ketsparrowhawk · February 2023

Anyone who plays BG's with any regularity on PC/NA already knows that isn't true.

MetallicMonk · February 2023

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Lol, no. I am talking about blowback.

However, what I do know is that my buff suggestions aren't over exaggerated. I asked for buffs which already existed at some point.

Only OG sorcs will know what i m talking about

There were more playstyles for mag sorc and more build diversity back then with less sets and less skill lines. All the below playstyles were equally effective
You could play dual wield sorc.
You could play with destro fire staff
You could play with destro ice staff
You could play pet sorc
You could play without dark conversion
You could play with 60k mag with 800 regen

Next patch we can play only 1 kind of sorc (not even a mag sorc) with 40k health doing oblivion damage. How is that acceptable to you ?

While I agree options are limited and magsorc could use some minor positive tweaks that is just not true that it's the only build that will be available next patch, I'm currently running a very strong magsorc build that plays like classic magsorc with double destro that is quite survivable and has great damage.

I don't mean to offend anyone in here but some people in this thread have youtube channels and it starts make sense how they view magsorc when they are running a build that hasn't been updated in nearly 3 years, and lacking important buffs completely on it.

The class needs slight adjustments defensively or sustain wise but it is not in need of major buffs, maybe on the stam side this is true. Personally I think magsorc would become extremely unfun and imbalanced to play with a strong burst heal. I don't want my class to become the new nightblade that becomes boring to play in 1 week, sorcerer being challenging and rewarding is the only reason I'm playing atm.

Sallymen · February 2023

For someone who has been playing the game and checking the forums since 2016

Yeah they do. lol

Aces-High-82 · February 2023

AdamLAD wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

We have different definitions of what a good player is. Anyone who would pose a serious challenge 1v1 will make a 1vX completely impossible, performance issues aside. Yeah maybe they could get baited into a trap but then I question if they're truly a great player in that case.. as avoiding situations like that is part of it.

It's depends, I don't consider anyone a big challenge in a 1v1. It's either I win or its a stalemate. The way the game is currently people are so tankiee is why this is the case. If the meta changed, this could be vastly different however. But throughout my years of eso, people who I know are good players in all PvP situations and I have 1vXd them a few times and 2vXd countless times

Are you a console player? Just curious

Most certainly am. Xbox EU specifically. People from both servers know who I am. NA and EU. One day will make the jump to PC. Few of my friends went to PC NA and PC EU. So I'll hopefully get help setting it up

Prepare for
Pve dps becoming a joke - takes couple of mins to set a macro for a static rota
3rd party software like esospeeder or esotrainer exist
Finally being able to turn your cam at a reasonable speed, tho enabled by an addon
Better buff/debuff tracking via addons
MIATs addon, basically tells you about to incoming damage (a 3rd party software enables you to autoblock/dodge at your predetermined thresholds)
Software that enables manipulation of package traffic

Luede · February 2023

Sergykid wrote: »

there actually are bg videos with people 1vx decent enemies, like former emps titles, 1500+cps, 5 star ranks, etc, i know these can be got by not good players but getting there should mean u r at least decent at pvp.
even i have some and I don't have many sorcs in my clips cuz mostly they run away or behind team, so not really interesting enough, but if they stay to fight they have a decent chance to win either against ranged magplar or melee dk

sorcs are like ad carry in league of lols, good pressure and mobility but need support for full potential, and now they will also get stronger shields on a health build

but that doesn't mean too much now, you meet former emp players every day, who bought their title, or were pushed through by their guild in the morning, without fighting back. i meet grand overlord players every day, who have problems walking straight, or finding the skills on the keys. cp points have the least to say, as they may have been earned entirely from overland questing.

what i mean to say is that you can't tell if someone is decent by looking at them.

AdamLAD · February 2023

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

We have different definitions of what a good player is. Anyone who would pose a serious challenge 1v1 will make a 1vX completely impossible, performance issues aside. Yeah maybe they could get baited into a trap but then I question if they're truly a great player in that case.. as avoiding situations like that is part of it.

It's depends, I don't consider anyone a big challenge in a 1v1. It's either I win or its a stalemate. The way the game is currently people are so tankiee is why this is the case. If the meta changed, this could be vastly different however. But throughout my years of eso, people who I know are good players in all PvP situations and I have 1vXd them a few times and 2vXd countless times

Are you a console player? Just curious

Most certainly am. Xbox EU specifically. People from both servers know who I am. NA and EU. One day will make the jump to PC. Few of my friends went to PC NA and PC EU. So I'll hopefully get help setting it up

Prepare for
Pve dps becoming a joke - takes couple of mins to set a macro for a static rota
3rd party software like esospeeder or esotrainer exist
Finally being able to turn your cam at a reasonable speed, tho enabled by an addon
Better buff/debuff tracking via addons
MIATs addon, basically tells you about to incoming damage (a 3rd party software enables you to autoblock/dodge at your predetermined thresholds)
Software that enables manipulation of package traffic

Why would anyone want to play like that ? My freinds who went pc have never had a problem. In all honesty I've been accused of cheating loads times on xbox. Using cronus or macros. Obviously its not true. I'm far too uneducated on technology to even begin to know how to set something like that up.

Turtle_Bot · February 2023

AdamLAD wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

1vXing good players is possible. If you're better than the "good player," then you can 1vX them simple as that. 1vXing a player who is better than you is close impossible unless there is lag involved or something beyond their control or your emp ect, you know what I mean. Whilst 1vXing is not the be all of a class in terms of how it determines balance. Its a good indication. Being able to 1vX means you must have everything in your kit. Sustain, tankiness, healing, damage ect. You must be self sufficient in all these areas to do it. Sorcerer is missing 3 out of the 4 mentioned, Sustain, tankiness and healing in comparison to other classes. A better player will stretch the class to do what others can't in those said areas

We have different definitions of what a good player is. Anyone who would pose a serious challenge 1v1 will make a 1vX completely impossible, performance issues aside. Yeah maybe they could get baited into a trap but then I question if they're truly a great player in that case.. as avoiding situations like that is part of it.

It's depends, I don't consider anyone a big challenge in a 1v1. It's either I win or its a stalemate. The way the game is currently people are so tankiee is why this is the case. If the meta changed, this could be vastly different however. But throughout my years of eso, people who I know are good players in all PvP situations and I have 1vXd them a few times and 2vXd countless times

Are you a console player? Just curious

Most certainly am. Xbox EU specifically. People from both servers know who I am. NA and EU. One day will make the jump to PC. Few of my friends went to PC NA and PC EU. So I'll hopefully get help setting it up

Prepare for
Pve dps becoming a joke - takes couple of mins to set a macro for a static rota
3rd party software like esospeeder or esotrainer exist
Finally being able to turn your cam at a reasonable speed, tho enabled by an addon
Better buff/debuff tracking via addons
MIATs addon, basically tells you about to incoming damage (a 3rd party software enables you to autoblock/dodge at your predetermined thresholds)
Software that enables manipulation of package traffic

Why would anyone want to play like that ? My freinds who went pc have never had a problem. In all honesty I've been accused of cheating loads times on xbox. Using cronus or macros. Obviously its not true. I'm far too uneducated on technology to even begin to know how to set something like that up.

Because unfortunately, not everyone cares about playing fair or playing to have fun, to them it's all about winning only, no matter what it takes. It's a sad attitude to have, but it's more common than people like to admit.

KilianDermoth · February 2023

Plus something like MIATs addon even doesnt do since years what he said it would do...

Probably the other stuff doesnt do what he said, too. But I dont know the other stuff to be sure, still the whole post just looks like a rant with plenty misinformation and less real weight and you cant take someone seriously who still says that MIATs addon is cheating...

Its even riddiculous that people are still spreading this misinformation about MIATs addon... MIATs addon could do that in the past, sure, when it was supported by the official API, but since ZOS decided to remove that functionally (a long while ago...) it doesnt do that anymore and is more or less just a overlay for Cyrodiil that doesnt do more than what minimap and compass achieves + just text about who killed who, thus is far away from cheating...

But for him even something like "Better buff/debuff tracking via addons", what should be part of the base game, is cheating... Probably he even thinks that the skill timers that ZOS officially introduced and were long before supported by third party addons are cheating...

And wether MIATs nor "Better buff/debuff tracking via addons" or literally any addon available through esoui / minion (like MIATs) allow for any manipulation of package traffic and probably the others dont do that, too...

Aces-High-82 · February 2023

KilianDermoth wrote: »

Plus something like MIATs addon even doesnt do since years what he said it would do...

Probably the other stuff doesnt do what he said, too. But I dont know the other stuff to be sure, still the whole post just looks like a rant with plenty misinformation and less real weight and you cant take someone seriously who still says that MIATs addon is cheating...

Its even riddiculous that people are still spreading this misinformation about MIATs addon... MIATs addon could do that in the past, sure, when it was supported by the official API, but since ZOS decided to remove that functionally (a long while ago...) it doesnt do that anymore and is more or less just a overlay for Cyrodiil that doesnt do more than what minimap and compass achieves + just text about who killed who, thus is far away from cheating...

But for him even something like "Better buff/debuff tracking via addons", what should be part of the base game, is cheating... Probably he even thinks that the skill timers that ZOS officially introduced and were long before supported by third party addons are cheating...

And wether MIATs nor "Better buff/debuff tracking via addons" or literally any addon available through esoui / minion (like MIATs) allow for any manipulation of package traffic and probably the others dont do that, too...

Never said MIATs enables autoblock/dodge nowadays. A 3rd party software is required to anable that function.
Never said that better buff tracking is cheating lol
I played eso pvp for almost a decade now (PC and console) and it comes down to if you want to stick to the console versions abysmal performance or you transfer to PC which has its own up/downsides but performs much better and has a larger player base (EU at least).
You wanna see what 3rd party software is capable off just look it up on youtube lol
No rant at all here XD

ESO_Nightingale · February 2023

Katlefiya wrote: »

Do Sorcerers Complain too much?

Well, everyone else seems to complain about sorcs, regardless how strong or weak the class really is. It is always "streak is op", "shield stacking is op", "pets are annoying and ez mode", "sorcs steal kills", etc. etc.

Every little buff - the few that sorcs did receive over time - is met with criticism, every nerf seems to be celebrated on the forums as justified, while other classes continue to be buffed ad nauseam for no apparent reasons.

that's pretty disingenuous. the forums is usually always super happy when something gets nerfed into the ground when it's overperforming, sorcs aren't special in this regard.