Penetration, crit chance, crit damage or High spell/ weapon damage

Syiccal · November 2022

What do you build into and why?

baselesschart · November 2022

As a nightblade I'm pushing as much crit damage as I can. Just the meta right now. I'm even more incentivized to do so because people don't really run impen. Although rallying cry offers an insane amount of crit resist, arguably that set does too much.

Syiccal · November 2022

baselesschart wrote: »

As a nightblade I'm pushing as much crit damage as I can. Just the meta right now. I'm even more incentivized to do so because people don't really run impen. Although rallying cry offers an insane amount of crit resist, arguably that set does too much.

And this is the thing building crit damage seems popular, however rally cry is very popular also which seems to negate alot of the built for crit damage.

baselesschart · November 2022

Syiccal wrote: »

And this is the thing building crit damage seems popular, however rally cry is very popular also which seems to negate alot of the built for crit damage.

It does negate some. But most nightblades run balorgh and that gives a sizeable boost to your damage. I hope they nerf rallying cry though, its too powerful in my opinion. The 5th bonus is already incredibly powerful as it is, paired with the fact that you can maintain 100% uptime on it is just ridiculous

katorga · November 2022

baselesschart wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

And this is the thing building crit damage seems popular, however rally cry is very popular also which seems to negate alot of the built for crit damage.

It does negate some. But most nightblades run balorgh and that gives a sizeable boost to your damage. I hope they nerf rallying cry though, its too powerful in my opinion. The 5th bonus is already incredibly powerful as it is, paired with the fact that you can maintain 100% uptime on it is just ridiculous

On the other hand, classes not suited to, or capable of, high crit/crit damage builds think capped crit damage with 100% uptime is just ridiculous.

IMO rallying cry is just fine. Every build needs a counter build.

Syiccal · November 2022

I've put a 110% crit dmg build on my pvp plar but suffers from low pen (8k with Major breach)

Syiccal · November 2022

I'm still testing to work out which is better pen or crit dmg

baselesschart · November 2022

katorga wrote: »

On the other hand, classes not suited to, or capable of, high crit/crit damage builds think capped crit damage with 100% uptime is just ridiculous.

IMO rallying cry is just fine. Every build needs a counter build.

There is plenty of counter to the nightblade crit builds. It may just not be what you think it is. Sets that give crit damage just supplement flat crit damage meaning that there usually is no uptime. Unless you're arguing about NMG which then I would say other classes can apply that same level of debuff even easier i.e noxious breath.

Rallying cry is what I consider a set that offers so much with such a low opportunity cost. ZOS is notorious for making powerful sets with far too easy proc conditions and this is one of them. I think rallying cry would work much better as an effect that stacks the more "x" condition is met.

WuffyCerulei · November 2022

I build into having higher crit, since as a Khajiit, I have passive crit damage and heals. I also run Crit Surge, which is helpful with dealing with NPCs on resource and whatnot. I know people run Impen, but I don't pvp with just the mindset of 1vXing or something like that.

taugrim · November 2022

baselesschart wrote: »

As a nightblade I'm pushing as much crit damage as I can. Just the meta right now. I'm even more incentivized to do so because people don't really run impen. Although rallying cry offers an insane amount of crit resist, arguably that set does too much.

Because of the prevalence of sets such as Rallying Cry, I don't think it's worth somewhat stacking into crit chance and crit multiplier.

You either go VERY heavy into crit chance and crit multiplier, or you stack damage and pen and largley ignore crit stats. In other games, doing a balance across stats can work, but not in this game because of the itemization and base 20% crit resistance.

I don't think doing it halfway makes sense. Not that you are advocating for that.

baselesschart wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

On the other hand, classes not suited to, or capable of, high crit/crit damage builds think capped crit damage with 100% uptime is just ridiculous.

IMO rallying cry is just fine. Every build needs a counter build.

Rallying cry is what I consider a set that offers so much with such a low opportunity cost. ZOS is notorious for making powerful sets with far too easy proc conditions and this is one of them. I think rallying cry would work much better as an effect that stacks the more "x" condition is met.

Rallying Cry is too good.

As someone in one of my PVP guilds (Ulfhednar) said: "Rallying Cry is like if Transmutation and Powerful Assault had a baby".

But given that it exists, RC greatly reduces the effectiveness of crit-based builds. The issue with heavily stacking into crit stats is that your base damage is low/lower, which means when you crit, you are multiplying a mediocre number.

With all that being said, crit does certainly benefit the stacker in that it affects healing too.

baselesschart · November 2022

taugrim wrote: »

Because of the prevalence of sets such as Rallying Cry, I don't think it's worth somewhat stacking into crit chance and crit multiplier.

You either go VERY heavy into crit chance and crit multiplier, or you stack damage and pen and largley ignore crit stats. In other games, doing a balance across stats can work, but not in this game because of the itemization and base 20% crit resistance.

I don't think doing it halfway makes sense. Not that you are advocating for that.

Yeah this is true. Now that I am stacking more crit damage than I have in patches past my peak weapon damage is not as high. The tradeoff being that my crits usually hit harder. Although I do miss stacking raw weapon damage. Prior to update 35 I was running clever with the warrior mundus and I could easily break 8k weapon damage. Meaning my vigor heals ticked for massive amounts.

Pelanora · January 2023

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/614635/0/#Form_Comment

This was a good discussion on crit vs pen

Baconlad · January 2023

I have been leaning towards crit and crit damage in PvP. I noticed a massive difference in my healing after dropping sharpened fire staff and new moon acolyte and equipping a precise fire staff with orders wrath. And the damage is similar enough overall.

I'm going to test dropping war maiden for true sworn to see it its a bit better.

I'm a launch day 2014 magplar and am quite used to my health dropping low to focus on just one more cast of a skill, so I may benefit from true sworn quite a bit.

It might be overkill in terms of crit damage though...well see.

malistorr · January 2023

I'm not going to give my build out online because I think I'm probably the only one using it in this game and I do very well with it. But I can tell you that I've found the best success going with combined high pen and weapon/spell damage. My crit chance is just so-so and I don't think my crit damage % is very high since I'm not building into that specifically. I tried going with a build at about the crit damage cap of 125% and I tried going mostly weapon/spell damage and my preference is the 2nd combined with decent pen.

Pelanora · January 2023

malistorr wrote: »

I'm not going to give my build out online because I think I'm probably the only one using it in this game and I do very well with it. But I can tell you that I've found the best success going with combined high pen and weapon/spell damage. My crit chance is just so-so and I don't think my crit damage % is very high since I'm not building into that specifically. I tried going with a build at about the crit damage cap of 125% and I tried going mostly weapon/spell damage and my preference is the 2nd combined with decent pen.

Isn't that the pvp vs pve thing? Weapon damage for pvp and crit for pve?